Separation of Church and State

[MLD Woody]

 

SCOTUS ruling for States to fund religious schools

In a dissent to the ruling in Carson v Makin, released on Tuesday, Sotomayor wrote: “This court continues to dismantle the wall of separation between church and state that the framers fought to build.

“… In just a few years, the court has upended constitutional doctrine, shifting from a rule that permits states to decline to fund religious organisations to one that requires states in many circumstances to subsidise religious indoctrination with taxpayer dollars.”

 

 

 

SCOTUS ruling to allow a coach to make a big spectacle or a prayer at the 50 Yard line, clearly having implications on those that join in and those that don't 

 

[MLD Woody]

The Establishment Clause

https://www.uscourts.gov/educational-resources/educational-activities/first-amendment-and-religion#:~:text=The Establishment clause prohibits the,as the Church of England.

 

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...

 

 

 

 

Picking and choosing what they want to believe from the constitution is no different than picking and choosing what they want to believe from the Bible. Or agreeing with big government when it suits them. Etc.

[MLD Woody]

And group that's shrinking in size and power has played the game to affect everyone else, regardless of what the majority wants 

https://news.gallup.com/poll/341963/church-membership-falls-below-majority-first-time.aspx

 

 

 

[MLD Woody]

I hope some Muslims or Satanists can take advantage of this as it seems that's the only thing that works. 

[Canton Dawg]

If a Muslim high school football coach wants to unroll his rug on the 50 yard line after the game and have a prayer.

Have at it.

[DieHardBrownsFan1]

One country, UNDER GOD......

[DieHardBrownsFan1]

49 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

I hope some Muslims or Satanists can take advantage of this as it seems that's the only thing that works. 

You would.....

[calfoxwc]

Woody, you don't believe in much of anything - except to pretend to believe in the opposite of

what others believe.

   and, "clear implications...." is not in the Constitution. that is just bigotry at work.

I think if a public school was teaching there is no God, you would defend it.

[Axe]

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

I think if a public school was teaching there is no God, you would defend it.

Most are.

[MLD Woody]

2 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

Woody, you don't believe in much of anything - except to pretend to believe in the opposite of

what others believe.

   and, "clear implications...." is not in the Constitution. that is just bigotry at work.

I think if a public school was teaching there is no God, you would defend it.

No you jackass. A PUBLIC school shouldn't advocate for anything. It can teach kids what an atheist is, what a Christian is, etc but it can't establish any religion.

It's funny you try the "he doesn't believe in anything" deflection when your "morals" change to whatever is convenient in order to pull the party line. Remember small govt? Ha

These stupid "gotchas" don't work when the person you're trying them on actually sticks to what they believe regardless of the political party implications 

 

How about this you old dumbass, I don't give a shit what you believe. This is what I believe. Religion should have nothing to do with public school or the government in general. Boebert is pushing for evangelical sharia law and you don't care because you agree with fringe group pushing it.  Nothing to do with you actually taking any kind of stand. 

[MLD Woody]

The positive angle here is that this country is clearly going in one direction with it's overall religious affiliation. The fringe religious right definitely has a disproportionate amount of influence, but they will continue to shrink in size. The data by generation is clear. Hopefully this is one last flare up...  

[DieHardBrownsFan1]

7 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

The positive angle here is that this country is clearly going in one direction with it's overall religious affiliation. The fringe religious right definitely has a disproportionate amount of influence, but they will continue to shrink in size. The data by generation is clear. Hopefully this is one last flare up...  

🤣

[hammertime]

2 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

The positive angle here is that this country is clearly going in one direction with it's overall religious affiliation. The fringe religious right definitely has a disproportionate amount of influence, but they will continue to shrink in size. The data by generation is clear. Hopefully this is one last flare up...  

God isn’t going to go away anytime soon…

Too many folks like you who need him.

[MLD Woody]

16 minutes ago, hammertime said:

God isn’t going to go away anytime soon…

Too many folks like you who need him.

Religion is objectively declining. I provided facts on this

Though I know your people aren't big on facts if they conflict with your predetermined fairy tale....

 

 

Just pray harder, champ

[DieHardBrownsFan1]

You're an asshole pecker.

[Westside Steve]

10 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

I hope some Muslims or Satanists can take advantage of this as it seems that's the only thing that works. 

A little bit insulting lumping in Muslims, one of the most predominant religions on the planet, and satanists which are basically assholes get off by shock and offense.

A grown up would know the difference.

WSS

[jbluhm86]

36 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

A little bit insulting lumping in Muslims, one of the most predominant religions on the planet, and satanists which are basically assholes get off by shock and offense.

A grown up would know the difference.

WSS

By the same token, we both are grown up enough to know that if Muslims or Satanists tried to do prayers at sporting and other public events akin to how Christians do, that there would be a massive uproar amongst those Christian groups. 

[calfoxwc]

7 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

No you jackass. A PUBLIC school shouldn't advocate for anything. It can teach kids what an atheist is, what a Christian is, etc but it can't establish any religion.It's funny you try the "he doesn't believe in anything" deflection when your "morals" change to whatever is convenient in order to pull the party line. Remember small govt? HaThese stupid "gotchas" don't work when the person you're trying them on actually sticks to what they believe regardless of the political party implications How about this you old dumbass, I don't give a shit what you believe. This is what I believe. Religion should have nothing to do with public school or the government in general. Boebert is pushing for evangelical sharia law and you don't care because you agree with fringe group pushing it.  Nothing to do with you actually taking any kind of stand. 

A. The public school advocated to deny the Christian coach the right to pray by himself after a game. So, stfu. The Supreme Court knows it, and you don't know jack nothin about anything.

B. I tried, but you went back to being a woodypeckerhead. You can't seem to stop.  It's all you can muster, since you are so severely lacking in real world experience, you thrive on identifying as a freak bird.

C. Your ignorant blurb about morals changing and small government - again, you miss the point. The Supreme Court is not as aspect of "small government". Just once, learn what words you usually spout off - learn what the bleep the definitions are?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_government

An approach to government which seeks to minimize the role of the State, especially in providing services and regulating the private sector; government based on these principles.

**********************************************************

     So, note that protecting the right of that coach to pray, has nothing to do with gov providing services and your free stuff....has nothing to do with overreach of regulating the private sector - it had to do with a right to pray.

D. You are a moron. Boebert is not pushing anything of the sort. You can't stand Christians, because you aren't one, and that threatens your ego. You feel that Christians must decide against their own faith, to make you happy that their Christianity has nothing to do with gov..... yes, you are a moron.

E. AGAIN - separation of church and state means the gov shall not establish one religion as a the only official religion. A teacher can be a Christian in a public school.

    The first time I told the story about very nearly dying as a kid, in a spring - you ridiculed it so many times in later years. Ask yourself why it threatened your bird ego.

That is sad.

 

[Westside Steve]

7 hours ago, jbluhm86 said:

By the same token, we both are grown up enough to know that if Muslims or Satanists tried to do prayers at sporting and other public events akin to how Christians do, that there would be a massive uproar amongst those Christian groups. 

Two points. First of all I don't agree about Muslims. In a predominantly Muslim neighborhood and a predominantly Muslim School I think they do as they wish with no complaint for me.

Second, and here is where the adult thing comes into play, I'm not sure how you got the impression I was a big fan of equity, but sorry, I don't take satanists seriously and would not afford them the same privilege as I would Muslims or Christians or Jews. Kind of the same deal with the church of universal life that you mail a check and purchase yourself a Ministry from the classified ads of The Enquirer or Woody's Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Is that completely Fair to the handful of idiots that really worship Satan or the FSM? Maybe not. Time for them to realize that sometimes life is tough.

WSS

[MLD Woody]

9 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

A little bit insulting lumping in Muslims, one of the most predominant religions on the planet, and satanists which are basically assholes get off by shock and offense.

A grown up would know the difference.

WSS

 

You know exactly what I meant even if you're being purposely dense

 

9 hours ago, jbluhm86 said:

By the same token, we both are grown up enough to know that if Muslims or Satanists tried to do prayers at sporting and other public events akin to how Christians do, that there would be a massive uproar amongst those Christian groups. 

 

Exactly. Thank you

 

1 hour ago, Westside Steve said:

Two points. First of all I don't agree about Muslims. In a predominantly Muslim neighborhood and a predominantly Muslim School I think they do as they wish with no complaint for me.

Second, and here is where the adult thing comes into play, I'm not sure how you got the impression I was a big fan of equity, but sorry, I don't take satanists seriously and would not afford them the same privilege as I would Muslims or Christians or Jews. Kind of the same deal with the church of universal life that you mail a check and purchase yourself a Ministry from the classified ads of The Enquirer or Woody's Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Is that completely Fair to the handful of idiots that really worship Satan or the FSM? Maybe not. Time for them to realize that sometimes life is tough.

WSS

 

"It's fine for Muslims to do it if they just do it over there..."

Doesn't work like that. Same things with Satanists. If it's an established religion it doesn't matter what you think about it. 

We already have an extremist minority making laws for everyone else in this country. That group isn't a big fan of Muslims, Satanists, etc. I hope those groups they don't like take advantage of these asinine rulings to make this law setting fringe group uncomfortable. Only way to take back some of this regression they're putting on society 

[MLD Woody]

6 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

A. The public school advocated to deny the Christian coach the right to pray by himself after a game. So, stfu. The Supreme Court knows it, and you don't know jack nothin about anything.

B. I tried, but you went back to being a woodypeckerhead. You can't seem to stop.  It's all you can muster, since you are so severely lacking in real world experience, you thrive on identifying as a freak bird.

C. Your ignorant blurb about morals changing and small government - again, you miss the point. The Supreme Court is not as aspect of "small government". Just once, learn what words you usually spout off - learn what the bleep the definitions are?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_government

An approach to government which seeks to minimize the role of the State, especially in providing services and regulating the private sector; government based on these principles.

**********************************************************

     So, note that protecting the right of that coach to pray, has nothing to do with gov providing services and your free stuff....has nothing to do with overreach of regulating the private sector - it had to do with a right to pray.

D. You are a moron. Boebert is not pushing anything of the sort. You can't stand Christians, because you aren't one, and that threatens your ego. You feel that Christians must decide against their own faith, to make you happy that their Christianity has nothing to do with gov..... yes, you are a moron.

E. AGAIN - separation of church and state means the gov shall not establish one religion as a the only official religion. A teacher can be a Christian in a public school.

    The first time I told the story about very nearly dying as a kid, in a spring - you ridiculed it so many times in later years. Ask yourself why it threatened your bird ego.

That is sad.

 

A. He went out to the 50 Yard line and led a group of students in prayer! That's the objective fact. He wasn't off to the side doing this by himself. He was in a position of power as the coach and this could easily have been seen as coercion too. Are you just making up facts about what happened? I mean I wouldn't put it past you. This coach went on a media tour to gain a bunch of attention and then the following season did this again but with even more people on the field and it became and even bigger show. You know nothing other than what your bias media feeds you. Trying reading about things a little more and ...gasp .... Think for yourself.

You're wrong here. You're clearly wrong 

B. Tried what? You're going to say you tried to be civil or something? Bullshit. We've done this before and you always go back to your insults as soon as someone disagrees with you. You're a fragile old man.

C. No you fucking moron. That comment isn't saying the SCOTUS is small government or whatever dumbass thing you're trying to say. It has nothing to do with this. Hilarious how simple your brain is. 

"An approach to government that seems to minimize the role of the state."

But you're all for the government taking control over women's bodies when they're pregnant, huh? .... Right

 

 

D. Haha, look at you trying to play arm chair psychologist and failing horribly. I was raised Christian. Many of my close friends are. They're all more than welcome to do whatever they want but Christians cannot push their beliefs on everyone else. That is what's happening now. And that is CLEARLY what Boebert is trying to do if you watch that clip. 

Well, actually, Boebert is just pandering. She made another comment recently, in front of a bunch of Christians, about how Jesus could have saved himself from his government if he had ARs. Ignoring the fact that's a very redneck ass comment, it also misses the point of Jesus'story completely since he was sacrificing himself. That was the point. 

In reality Boebert, just like Trump, is just pandering to Christians. They don't actually give a fuck about any of that.

 

E. That isn't at a what separation of Church and State means... No one anywhere has said a Christian can't work in a public school. Christ... here comes the right with their victim complex 

 

 

 

Threatened my ego? Hahahahahaha. I found it hilarious and worth insulting. And it clearly gets on your nerves. But if you're dumb enough to think a magic donkey saved you because of Jesus or whatever then you believing dumb shit later in life is no surprise

 

 

 

Husband of the throat goat

published in 1992 noted that Nancy “was renowned in Hollywood for performing oral sex...not only in the evening but in offices. That was one of the reasons that she was very popular on the MGM lot.” 

 

 

 

[MLD Woody]

And look, from the people yelling about CRT and indoctrination the most...

https://www.axios.com/2022/07/02/florida-desantis-civics-church-state-misconception

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/07/02/desantis-civics-separation-church-state/

Included in the training is the statement that it is a “misconception” that “the Founders desired strict separation of church and state.”

 

Other materials included fragments of statements that were “cherry-picked” to present a more conservative view of American history, some attendees said. In a possible effort to inoculate some Founding Fathers against contemporary political complaints, some slides in a presentation pointed out that George Washington and Thomas Jefferson repudiated slavery; unsaid is that both men held enslaved people and helped worked toward a Constitution that enshrined the practice

 

 

 

Complain about the teaching of history you don't like, call it CRT or whatever hot buzzword catches on, and while everyone is in an uproar start teaching the actual half truths and misinformation you want kids to learn. Whatever helps your political party in the long run. If anyone catches on just yell groomer really loud. 

 

 

split the country in half, fuck it. 

[Westside Steve]

54 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

 

You know exactly what I meant even if you're being purposely dense

 

 

Exactly. Thank you

 

 

"It's fine for Muslims to do it if they just do it over there..."

Doesn't work like that. Same things with Satanists. If it's an established religion it doesn't matter what you think about it. 

We already have an extremist minority making laws for everyone else in this country. That group isn't a big fan of Muslims, Satanists, etc. I hope those groups they don't like take advantage of these asinine rulings to make this law setting fringe group uncomfortable. Only way to take back some of this regression they're putting on society 

Not at all. Even though I know you're just being a dickwad I'm talking about places, areas of Minnesota areas of Michigan just for example where the population is predominantly muslim. I used to visit Dearborn every year. A good friend of mine's wife teaches at a Muslim School and they are fine people and I doubt there's anything untoward going on within that school. So blow me and your Satanist buddies can blow me to. And your spaghetti monster congregation. You dorks can sit around and beat off to your Aleister Crowley books in your parents' basement.

WSS

[DieHardBrownsFan1]

1 hour ago, MLD Woody said:

And look, from the people yelling about CRT and indoctrination the most...

https://www.axios.com/2022/07/02/florida-desantis-civics-church-state-misconception

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/07/02/desantis-civics-separation-church-state/

Included in the training is the statement that it is a “misconception” that “the Founders desired strict separation of church and state.”

 

Other materials included fragments of statements that were “cherry-picked” to present a more conservative view of American history, some attendees said. In a possible effort to inoculate some Founding Fathers against contemporary political complaints, some slides in a presentation pointed out that George Washington and Thomas Jefferson repudiated slavery; unsaid is that both men held enslaved people and helped worked toward a Constitution that enshrined the practice

 

 

 

Complain about the teaching of history you don't like, call it CRT or whatever hot buzzword catches on, and while everyone is in an uproar start teaching the actual half truths and misinformation you want kids to learn. Whatever helps your political party in the long run. If anyone catches on just yell groomer really loud. 

 

 

split the country in half, fuck it. 

[MLD Woody]

4 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

Not at all. Even though I know you're just being a dickwad I'm talking about places, areas of Minnesota areas of Michigan just for example where the population is predominantly muslim. I used to visit Dearborn every year. A good friend of mine's wife teaches at a Muslim School and they are fine people and I doubt there's anything untoward going on within that school. So blow me and your Satanist buddies can blow me to. And your spaghetti monster congregation. You dorks can sit around and beat off to your Aleister Crowley books in your parents' basement.

WSS

And I'm sure some/many Christians will agree with you, as long as those Muslims, etc. do it "over there". I still believe you're being dense on purpose which is me giving you the benefit of the doubt here. It's the more positive view of you...

In this town where the coach now has a huge group praying at the 50, that's where I want to see any resident Muslims, Satanists, etc push for their right to now pray on the 50 too. Whatever pisses off the Christians the most. Or something similar not in Dearborn where these opposing beliefs can be nicely segregated, but in towns full of the evangelicals (or less) that support this ruling. 

 

And fyi, the goal here isn't to just go out of the way to piss devout Christians off. Though I'm sure you'll completely ignore this part and say it is. The point is to bring hypocrisy to the light and ultimately, hopefully, undo this latest SCOTUS decision that just moves us closer to a theocracy. So if these groups want to remove church and state then they'll deal with all of the consequences. Ideally none of this matters, we keep religion separate, and these groups can practice whatever they want in their own groups. But instead they have to just force it into everyone else's faces. 

[calfoxwc]

6 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

A. changed costumes again, eh woodpecker? You are one sick girlybird.

Wow. You really ARE a moron. The Supreme Court ruled he had EVERY RIGHT TO PRAY by himself. and YES, Christian students went out and prayed with him if they wanted to. IT IS ALSO THEIR RIGHT, ASSWHOLE. HE IS A HEAD COACH , HE CAN GO OUT TO ANY PART OF THE FIELD, AND PRAY, AND YOU CAN JUST take a deep dive and kiss a clam's butt. lol

B. I tried - I was saying "woody" to try to get a serious answer. But you have pansied out on answering - about eight times now, as usual. Electric or gas car?????

C. You are a moronic, cowardly bird, woodpecker. The Supreme Court did not rule for taking over women's bodies, asswhole. They ruled that the question is to be left UP TO THE STATES. I still get disgusted - "women's bodies" - the child is a separate body. Unless you want to go full nazi and not consider both men and women people too. The child is not just the woman's body. Your big beak is making you look more like a complete ass more and more.

D.  Sadly, what transpired to make you despise God, then?   Really stupid of you to put words that no one said, for you to take up as an arguing point. You pretty much have done it to most of the forum.

E. Now you are being a moronic idiot birdbrain.  The Separation of Church and State - means the state can NOT establish an official religion. That's it. It isn't about a coach or teacher praying, so STFU. It isn't about a teacher inspiring others to join him/her in prayer. It's a PERSONAL CHOICE. The government is NOT allowed to deny religious freedom of expression in public schools. There is a fine line between teaching personal choice about religion, and teaching that the choice the teacher/coach made is the one to follow. You are angry the coach prayed at the fifty yard line, and other students prayed too? Stick it up your beak, freak. Maybe you need more fiber in your birdseed.

And, if any of us offend you by being Christians etc - go peck on some suet.

 

[calfoxwc]

So, two questions for the notorious woodpecker:

1. Do you have..............an electric car.................or gas powered car.

2. Just what is it that they let you "engineer" ? toothpicks? popsickle sticks?

[mjp28]

6 hours ago, DieHardBrownsFan1 said:

**** THAT'S  A SCARY FACE ! *****    Whoa.    How would you like to come home to that every night. 

[Westside Steve]

2 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

And I'm sure some/many Christians will agree with you, as long as those Muslims, etc. do it "over there". I still believe you're being dense on purpose which is me giving you the benefit of the doubt here. It's the more positive view of you...

In this town where the coach now has a huge group praying at the 50, that's where I want to see any resident Muslims, Satanists, etc push for their right to now pray on the 50 too. Whatever pisses off the Christians the most. Or something similar not in Dearborn where these opposing beliefs can be nicely segregated, but in towns full of the evangelicals (or less) that support this ruling. 

 

And fyi, the goal here isn't to just go out of the way to piss devout Christians off. Though I'm sure you'll completely ignore this part and say it is. The point is to bring hypocrisy to the light and ultimately, hopefully, undo this latest SCOTUS decision that just moves us closer to a theocracy. So if these groups want to remove church and state then they'll deal with all of the consequences. Ideally none of this matters, we keep religion separate, and these groups can practice whatever they want in their own groups. But instead they have to just force it into everyone else's faces. 

Oh horseshit. You haven't heard me say an ill word about Muslims in as long as we've been on here. That's a fake narrative that you seem to want to push. And I have no problem with some school prayer for this coach or whoever you're mad about. 

The problem is and it's getting worse and worse every week it seems, is that people are falling all over themselves to claim that they've been offended and need to be protected by something or other. People love attention. And a Christian or a Jew or a Muslim or an agnostic or an atheist or a Buddhist or a druid who claims they've been offended by somebody freely practicing his religion should just shut up. Everybody can find something to be offended about semicolon live it or live with it.

Also whoever the butt plug was that convinced the Supreme Court that a silent prayer in school was akin to establishing a theocracy has really lost touch with reality.

WSS

[FairHooker11]

30 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Oh horseshit. You haven't heard me say an ill word about Muslims in as long as we've been on here. That's a fake narrative that you seem to want to push. And I have no problem with some school prayer for this coach or whoever you're mad about. 

The problem is and it's getting worse and worse every week it seems, is that people are falling all over themselves to claim that they've been offended and need to be protected by something or other. People love attention. And a Christian or a Jew or a Muslim or an agnostic or an atheist or a Buddhist or a druid who claims they've been offended by somebody freely practicing his religion should just shut up. Everybody can find something to be offended about semicolon live it or live with it.

Also whoever the butt plug was that convinced the Supreme Court that a silent prayer in school was akin to establishing a theocracy has really lost touch with reality.

WSS

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madalyn_Murray_O'Hair

as an activist she had a lot of so called "objections" to Christianity as it fell into the mainstream American thought.

and as such has a "laundry list" of those objections. 

Interesting too is the cover that she gets by the media in some cases looking at any google search - to find that she is completely innocent

and hardly lifted a finger against Christianity  LOL

It says ALOT to the times in which we live - that history is being rewritten and presented to us as fact by the f(r)iends at google, youtube FB etc 

EVERYONE who remembers Madelyn Murray Ohair and her exploits of HATE towards our 1st ammendment rights knows about the time frame,

not the emotionally soft millenial facist wannabes