Dorian T-R

[Orion]

1 minute ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Pygmies have to jump to reach that high. Hard to do in a seat belt.🙋‍♀️

I had to replace my daughter's battery because the grandkids (pygmies) left the dome light on.  (blessed to have them two houses down the road)

[Orion]

6 hours ago, syd said:

Jets’ Aaron Rodgers Gives Warm Welcome to Browns QB Dorian Thompson-Robinson

I guess he can watch Dorian play in August.

[Korsou Dawg]

Interesting read:

The Chip Kelly offense coming to Cleveland (finally)?
Dorian Thompson-Robinson sees similarities between his UCLA offense and the Browns version

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2023/5/21/23731721/browns-chip-kelly-ucla-dorian-thompson-robinson-kevin-stefanski

The video it contains about DW analyzing a defense confirms what I saw last season already: completely different animal under center than his predecessors. The guy really sees the game, and knows how to make adjustments.

 

[Flugel]

On 4/30/2023 at 5:24 PM, calfoxwc said:

or they worry that he that he'll start bringing in strangers/"massotherapists"  again, like braylon edwars and pot - repeated suspensions......

We appreciate the moral compass from the very far right all of a sudden.  If one had twice as many sexual assault/harassment allegations as Watson did at his age - we can clearly see the biggest mistake DeShaun Watson made (aside from being black) was not repeating the following phrases 2000 times a week "WITCH HUNT" and "FAKE NEWS."  God only knows if someone in the R-WING repeats a lie a certain number of times that it's no longer a lie. 

 

 

 

[tiamat63]

3 hours ago, Korsou Dawg said:

Interesting read:

The Chip Kelly offense coming to Cleveland (finally)?
Dorian Thompson-Robinson sees similarities between his UCLA offense and the Browns version

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2023/5/21/23731721/browns-chip-kelly-ucla-dorian-thompson-robinson-kevin-stefanski

The video it contains about DW analyzing a defense confirms what I saw last season already: completely different animal under center than his predecessors. The guy really sees the game, and knows how to make adjustments.

 

 

 This article is.... not sure the word I'm wanting to use - sensationalizing? Mislabeling?  More gun, more vertical zone and emphasis on a horizontal passing are hardly exclusive to Chip Kelly. 

 This notion that the Browns will look like UCLA or Oregon is the over-generalization and near click-bait level mediocrity that DBN or their counterparts have to put out. 

 

 Coach Kelly's offenses are based on interior read, veer read and a QB dominant running game.  The closest he has come to developing a competent passer previous to this is Darron Thomas. Someone he had setup his passing game using a lot of half field reads leading to very hit and miss results - ask LSU and then Stanford during that 2011 season. 

 

 The vertical zone and split zone will be something used more heavily with Watson at the helm, and that will be more from the gun.  Apart from the verbiage in the offensive play calling and some simpler concepts, one's which you'll find overlap in damn near any playbook, Coach Kelly's offense is going to stay at the collegiate level.   That's about where the comparison between the current playbooks stand.

 

[ballpeen]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

 

 This article is.... not sure the word I'm wanting to use - sensationalizing? Mislabeling?  More gun, more vertical zone and emphasis on a horizontal passing are hardly exclusive to Chip Kelly. 

 This notion that the Browns will look like UCLA or Oregon is the over-generalization and near click-bait level mediocrity that DBN or their counterparts have to put out. 

 

 Coach Kelly's offenses are based on interior read, veer read and a QB dominant running game.  The closest he has come to developing a competent passer previous to this is Darron Thomas. Someone he had setup his passing game using a lot of half field reads leading to very hit and miss results - ask LSU and then Stanford during that 2011 season. 

 

 The vertical zone and split zone will be something used more heavily with Watson at the helm, and that will be more from the gun.  Apart from the verbiage in the offensive play calling and some simpler concepts, one's which you'll find overlap in damn near any playbook, Coach Kelly's offense is going to stay at the collegiate level.   That's about where the comparison between the current playbooks stand.

 

I agree.   BUT...when talking about a clear back-up, maybe that is the best concept.  It throws a chage at a defensive team who has to adjust on the fly.  It might not be the O you can use for 16 weeks, but IMO it is the O that can help win 2-3 games in a pinch in case of injury.

 

Face it, if a QB can run a pro passing O, he probably isn't a back-up for long.  If he can run a spread and run with his legs you have chance.  I have a baseball background.  It's kind of like throwing that soft tossing lefty  who by arm action, sweeping curves, and change-ups can make his 85MPH fastball look like 97.  To me, when you have to move from your starter, you want the other team to have to make an adjustment.  Why follow up Nolar Ryan with another?    They have been gearing up for the "EXPRESS", now make the ratchet down.  

 

That isn't easy to do mid game when the hitters have to start swinging 8" slower or faster. 

 

In baseball, I always talked to my pitchers about bringing a pitch in 8 inches sooner or later.  Greg Maddux was the master.   In baseball, 8 inches means the difference between the end of the bat or the handle of the bat, over the ball or under, not the beef of the bat.  Learn to pitch medium, then adjust your speed up and down.  If you can do that, it doesn't matter how hard you can throw....at least within reason.

 

Same in football.  If you have to adjust mid game, it is hard.  Especially when a coach calling D has to adjust as well.  It's not like a baseball coach tells a guy how fast or soon to swing the bat.  Just see the ball, hit the ball.  Fast pitchers, see the top of the ball.  Slower pitcher, see the bottom to the ball.  Maybe you will hit it square.  

[tiamat63]

1 hour ago, ballpeen said:

I agree.   BUT...when talking about a clear back-up, maybe that is the best concept.  It throws a chage at a defensive team who has to adjust on the fly.  It might not be the O you can use for 16 weeks, but IMO it is the O that can help win 2-3 games in a pinch in case of injury.

 

Face it, if a QB can run a pro passing O, he probably isn't a back-up for long.  If he can run a spread and run with his legs you have chance.  I have a baseball background.  It's kind of like throwing that soft tossing lefty  who by arm action, sweeping curves, and change-ups can make his 85MPH fastball look like 97.  To me, when you have to move from your starter, you want the other team to have to make an adjustment.  Why follow up Nolar Ryan with another?    They have been gearing up for the "EXPRESS", now make the ratchet down.  

 

That isn't easy to do mid game when the hitters have to start swinging 8" slower or faster. 

 

In baseball, I always talked to my pitchers about bringing a pitch in 8 inches sooner or later.  Greg Maddux was the master.   In baseball, 8 inches means the difference between the end of the bat or the handle of the bat, over the ball or under, not the beef of the bat.  Learn to pitch medium, then adjust your speed up and down.  If you can do that, it doesn't matter how hard you can throw....at least within reason.

 

Same in football.  If you have to adjust mid game, it is hard.  Especially when a coach calling D has to adjust as well.  It's not like a baseball coach tells a guy how fast or soon to swing the bat.  Just see the ball, hit the ball.  Fast pitchers, see the top of the ball.  Slower pitcher, see the bottom to the ball.  Maybe you will hit it square.  

 

 God forbid your starter goes down - generally the gameplan is to turtle. Run heavy, keep the ball out of his hands and play ball control.  So having elements you can use, such as the designed QB run game, can help to facilitate offensive production in lieu of your starting passer.  So to an extent I can agree with your line of thinking. 

 

 That said, this isn't 2002...  Collegiate and NFL defenses have adjusted to great effect. It's why I feel the game has begun to pass by a coach like Urban Meyer, who was fortunate enough to have Ryan Day begin to transition his offense in the direction of a more Tressel-like mobile passer instead of an elite or physical runner taking snaps under center. 

 

 And you're not going to develop your backup QB to run a cutdown version of the offense.  You're going to get him snaps where you feel comfortable that he could come in a produce as a passer, first and foremost.   The running designs are a distant 2nd supplemental to most every NFL offense not coached in Baltimore. 

 

Edit: to be clear, I understand what DTR is saying.   But, for the sake of the media, it's cut down and essentially coach speak.  Coach speak that said media takes and spins into shallow nonsense for headlines.

[Orion]

7 hours ago, ballpeen said:

To me, when you have to move from your starter, you want the other team to have to make an adjustment.

But it's not baseball.  Ideally, you'd like to be able to continue to do the things that they've practiced all week/season and not have to make any offensive adjustments.  Of course, if the draft pick is our backup, perhaps you have a small package for him.  Two or three plays?  Just for that wrinkle...

[ballpeen]

True.  In our case, I think that could be the case.

[Flugel]

13 hours ago, Orion said:

But it's not baseball.  Ideally, you'd like to be able to continue to do the things that they've practiced all week/season and not have to make any offensive adjustments.  Of course, if the draft pick is our backup, perhaps you have a small package for him.  Two or three plays?  Just for that wrinkle...

You covered that well.  In a perfect world, a guy learns the playbook and he's getting reps in practice to get more efficient with the plays.  However, once the regular season starts - the backup/3rd QB spends more time running the opponent's offense each week against the Browns defensive starters.  All that said, I would envision that after a season or 2 with the team - the experience level would increase the comfort with giving the backup a small package.  I remember when Tyrod Taylor was a Ratbird, Ray Lewis said something along the line of "he gives us fits in practice to the extent he'd be fun to watch if we ever needed him to fill-in on game day."   To his point, he was an effective/efficient back-up to the extent Tyrod eventually ended up starting for Buffalo; but they learned after enough opponents studied him on film - he was a better athlete than he was a QB.  Then he went on to Cleveland for a very short period before ending up with the Texans.  He's still getting employed because he's a reliable back-up that can offer a team what you and Ballpeen are discussing for Dorian T-R.   Just a guess looking at his impressive completion percentage, Dorian can give us accuracy as a passer to go along with his athleticism if/when we would have to use him.  After we all learned that a height of 6'2" is so tiny all of a sudden, it's safe to say the young man has a high ceiling. 

If we needed a back-up QB early this year, my guess is we might see Dobbs with some of those wrinkles you guys are talking about. 

 

Edited May 23, 2023 by Flugel

[ballpeen]

Right on point.  Dobbs is the back-up for this year, and he is more the wrinkle.  DTR is more of a long term investment.  One that will probably remain a back-up type, but you never know where things are headed 3-4 years down the road.  I don't think the team drafted him with the intent that he is going to be the long term back-up, or at least only see him as a guy with a cap of back-up ability.

 

I am not saying that to cause a QB stir or anything like that, just saying you never know what the future holds.

[ballpeen]

And to add to my previous point, belicheck made moves like this in the past.  I can't think of the QB's names right off, but a couple of them were drafted fairly late to sit behind Brady, and for one reason or another became the go to QB for QB starved teams and he was able to trade with for a pretty nice return on investment.

[Flugel]

6 minutes ago, ballpeen said:

Right on point.  Dobbs is the back-up for this year, and he is more the wrinkle.  DTR is more of a long term investment.  One that will probably remain a back-up type, but you never know where things are headed 3-4 years down the road.  I don't think the team drafted him with the intent that he is going to be the long term back-up, or at least only see him as a guy with a cap of back-up ability.

 

I am not saying that to cause a QB stir or anything like that, just saying you never know what the future holds.

Exactly. I think that's why they drafted him where they chose to do so rather than waited to draft a guy like TCU's Max Duggan later on.

[Orion]

10 hours ago, ballpeen said:

I don't think the team drafted him with the intent that he is going to be the long term back-up,

I'm glad you mentioned that (just that it's brought up),  because I actually thought/think that he might've been drafted specifically for that purpose.  He wasn't a high pick by any standards.  We know that the current thinking is for Watson to be the successful starter for just about this kid's entire career.  It shows that they're not content with the current backups.  Either that or he was just head and shoulders above the next BPA.

[ballpeen]

57 minutes ago, Orion said:

I'm glad you mentioned that (just that it's brought up),  because I actually thought/think that he might've been drafted specifically for that purpose.  He wasn't a high pick by any standards.  We know that the current thinking is for Watson to be the successful starter for just about this kid's entire career.  It shows that they're not content with the current backups.  Either that or he was just head and shoulders above the next BPA.

I think they think he will be the back-up after this season.  What I am saying is I don't think they feel he IS a career back-up, or in other words they feel that he has the ability to be a starter.