Terry Pluto on Browns OTAs

[Dutch Oven]

CLEVELAND, Ohio – Scribbles in my notebook about what I’m hearing from the Browns OTAs:

Here’s the disclaimer: This is an upbeat time of year. No real hitting. It’s a lot of NFL style touch football. As one executive told me, “It’s almost like a passing camp, but you can still see things.” That said, here we go:

1. There is a lot of excitement about Elijah Moore. The Browns plan to use the receiver acquired from the Jets in different roles, not just as the standard wideout. They call him a “chess piece,” in terms of being able to move around the board (field). He’s not a pure speed guy always running deep routes.

2. Moore was high on the list of GM Andrew Berry, who first tried to deal for him at the 2022 trading deadline. Moore’s attitude is excellent. Of course, that’s true of about every player at this point. Moore had some problems with the Jets coaches last season. This is a fresh start for him with an organization that wants him and believes in him.

3. Here’s a negative view from ESPN’s analytics guy Bill Barnwell: “I wasn’t in love with the Browns’ move to trade away some of the draft capital they had left in a trade for Elijah Moore, who fell out of favor with the Jets. Cleveland moved down 32 picks in the process. While Moore looked promising as a rookie, he has already played two years of his rookie deal. With Moore, Donovan Peoples-Jones and a trio of third-round picks (David Bell, Anthony Schwartz and Cedric Tillman), the organization has chosen the quantity approach in attempting to find a No. 2 wideout behind Amari Cooper. I’m not sure it has one.”

4. This is where coaching matters. Can Kevin Stefanski put Deshaun Watson in the right situation to at least approach his 2020 Pro Bowl performance? Moore had a promising rookie year in 2021 as Barnwell admitted. Can the coaching staff prove their talent evaluators to be right about Moore?

5. I didn’t have a big problem with the Browns moving back those 32 draft spots to add Moore. They used that pick acquired from the Jets to select Cedric Tillman. The rookie from Tennessee has been impressive, using his 6-foot-3 frame to be a good target. He has been connecting with rookie QB Dorian Thompson-Robinson (DTR). They played together in high school at powerhouse Bishop Gorman in Las Vegas.

6. The Browns like how DTR has grasped the playbook and has a mature approach to preparation. The other three QBs were with the team last year: Kellen Mond, Joshua Dobbs and Watson. The Browns believe DTR spending five years with Bruins coach Chip Kelly, who previous coached in the NFL, helped DTR. DTR made 48 starts for UCLA. His maturity is obvious.

7. I hear Stefanski was a strong supporter of drafting Tillman. The rookie has a lot of talent in front of him at receiver: Cooper, Moore, Marquise Goodwin and DPJ. That said, he could see more action than you’d expect from a third-round pick.

8. Is the receiver room packed with stars? Nope. But Cooper is a Pro Bowler. I like DPJ, who has talent and size. I’m probably alone on this, but I still think David Bell can be a viable NFL receiver. Good QBs and coaches make average wide receivers look better. Let’s see if that happens.

9. “Attack ... attack ... attack!” That’s what Jim Schwartz keeps preaching, especially to his defensive linemen. He’s keeping things simple. He believes Za’Darius Smith, Dalvin Tomlinson, Myles Garrett, Ogbo Okoronkwo and Jordan Elliott are the key veterans. This is a different system. I wonder if Schwartz can find some football gold in the collection of young linemen Siaki Ika, Isaiah McGuire, Perrion Winfrey, Alex Wright and Tommy Togiai. At least one of those guys should be able to break into the defensive line rotation.

10. For most of his NFL career, Smith played in the 3-4 system as a linebacker. He is a natural 4-3 defensive end, ideal for Schwartz’s scheme. He was unhappy with his contract in Minnesota. The Browns have him in a good spot because his reworked contract is a one-year deal. He is playing for a new deal in 2024, which should bring out the best in him. At least, that’s the plan.

11. Smith is excited about being in the 4-3 alignment, which he played in college. He said Schwartz told him this: “We just need you to get off the ball, man. We know that you haven’t had that in the past eight years.”

12. While Schwartz has been using Grant Delpit and Juan Thornhill at both safety positions, I hear the Browns want Thornhill to be the pure “free safety.” That was the position John Johnson III was supposed to handle, but he had major problems in two years with the Browns. In fact, Johnson is still looking for a team after being cut by Cleveland in March.

13. While defensive tackle Dalvin Tomlinson was the high-priced free agent acquisition, Thornhill could be the most important. The Browns haven’t had a true “center fielder” at safety since ... who? The Browns desperately need a play-maker at the position. Remember all the blown coverages the last few years? That has to change.

 

 

 

 

[Flugel]

50 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

CLEVELAND, Ohio – Scribbles in my notebook about what I’m hearing from the Browns OTAs:

Here’s the disclaimer: This is an upbeat time of year. No real hitting. It’s a lot of NFL style touch football. As one executive told me, “It’s almost like a passing camp, but you can still see things.” That said, here we go:

1. There is a lot of excitement about Elijah Moore. The Browns plan to use the receiver acquired from the Jets in different roles, not just as the standard wideout. They call him a “chess piece,” in terms of being able to move around the board (field). He’s not a pure speed guy always running deep routes.

2. Moore was high on the list of GM Andrew Berry, who first tried to deal for him at the 2022 trading deadline. Moore’s attitude is excellent. Of course, that’s true of about every player at this point. Moore had some problems with the Jets coaches last season. This is a fresh start for him with an organization that wants him and believes in him.

3. Here’s a negative view from ESPN’s analytics guy Bill Barnwell: “I wasn’t in love with the Browns’ move to trade away some of the draft capital they had left in a trade for Elijah Moore, who fell out of favor with the Jets. Cleveland moved down 32 picks in the process. While Moore looked promising as a rookie, he has already played two years of his rookie deal. With Moore, Donovan Peoples-Jones and a trio of third-round picks (David Bell, Anthony Schwartz and Cedric Tillman), the organization has chosen the quantity approach in attempting to find a No. 2 wideout behind Amari Cooper. I’m not sure it has one.”

4. This is where coaching matters. Can Kevin Stefanski put Deshaun Watson in the right situation to at least approach his 2020 Pro Bowl performance? Moore had a promising rookie year in 2021 as Barnwell admitted. Can the coaching staff prove their talent evaluators to be right about Moore?

5. I didn’t have a big problem with the Browns moving back those 32 draft spots to add Moore. They used that pick acquired from the Jets to select Cedric Tillman. The rookie from Tennessee has been impressive, using his 6-foot-3 frame to be a good target. He has been connecting with rookie QB Dorian Thompson-Robinson (DTR). They played together in high school at powerhouse Bishop Gorman in Las Vegas.

6. The Browns like how DTR has grasped the playbook and has a mature approach to preparation. The other three QBs were with the team last year: Kellen Mond, Joshua Dobbs and Watson. The Browns believe DTR spending five years with Bruins coach Chip Kelly, who previous coached in the NFL, helped DTR. DTR made 48 starts for UCLA. His maturity is obvious.

7. I hear Stefanski was a strong supporter of drafting Tillman. The rookie has a lot of talent in front of him at receiver: Cooper, Moore, Marquise Goodwin and DPJ. That said, he could see more action than you’d expect from a third-round pick.

8. Is the receiver room packed with stars? Nope. But Cooper is a Pro Bowler. I like DPJ, who has talent and size. I’m probably alone on this, but I still think David Bell can be a viable NFL receiver. Good QBs and coaches make average wide receivers look better. Let’s see if that happens.

9. “Attack ... attack ... attack!” That’s what Jim Schwartz keeps preaching, especially to his defensive linemen. He’s keeping things simple. He believes Za’Darius Smith, Dalvin Tomlinson, Myles Garrett, Ogbo Okoronkwo and Jordan Elliott are the key veterans. This is a different system. I wonder if Schwartz can find some football gold in the collection of young linemen Siaki Ika, Isaiah McGuire, Perrion Winfrey, Alex Wright and Tommy Togiai. At least one of those guys should be able to break into the defensive line rotation.

10. For most of his NFL career, Smith played in the 3-4 system as a linebacker. He is a natural 4-3 defensive end, ideal for Schwartz’s scheme. He was unhappy with his contract in Minnesota. The Browns have him in a good spot because his reworked contract is a one-year deal. He is playing for a new deal in 2024, which should bring out the best in him. At least, that’s the plan.

11. Smith is excited about being in the 4-3 alignment, which he played in college. He said Schwartz told him this: “We just need you to get off the ball, man. We know that you haven’t had that in the past eight years.”

12. While Schwartz has been using Grant Delpit and Juan Thornhill at both safety positions, I hear the Browns want Thornhill to be the pure “free safety.” That was the position John Johnson III was supposed to handle, but he had major problems in two years with the Browns. In fact, Johnson is still looking for a team after being cut by Cleveland in March.

13. While defensive tackle Dalvin Tomlinson was the high-priced free agent acquisition, Thornhill could be the most important. The Browns haven’t had a true “center fielder” at safety since ... who? The Browns desperately need a play-maker at the position. Remember all the blown coverages the last few years? That has to change.

 

 

 

 

Thanks Dutch!   I always enjoy reading what Terry Pluto has to say.  Can't wait to see how much this off season improves the team.

[Dutch Oven]

12 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Thanks Dutch!   I always enjoy reading what Terry Pluto has to say.  Can't wait to see how much this off season improves the team.

I made sure to copy and paste the entire article before it went to Exclusive Content like the last Pluto article I posted a link to... 😁

[Kvoethe]

Saw an article saying out defensive leader didnt show up for OTA

[Orion]

4 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

13. While defensive tackle Dalvin Tomlinson was the high-priced free agent acquisition, Thornhill could be the most important. The Browns haven’t had a true “center fielder” at safety since ... who? The Browns desperately need a play-maker at the position. Remember all the blown coverages the last few years? That has to change.

It sure does.  There were those that felt that some of the coverage issues were due to the confusing defensive schemes of Woods.  

[ballpeen]

11 hours ago, Kvoethe said:

Saw an article saying out defensive leader didnt show up for OTA

I suppose you mean Myles.

 

Linemen don't matter.  It might matter for new players so they can get to know some of their teammates, but linemen and backs don't have anything to do during these sessions.  As was stated in the article, it is a passing camp, so unless I was a rookie or new to the team, why bother?

[Dutch Oven]

2 hours ago, ballpeen said:

I suppose you mean Myles.

 

Linemen don't matter.  It might matter for new players so they can get to know some of their teammates, but linemen and backs don't have anything to do during these sessions.  As was stated in the article, it is a passing camp, so unless I was a rookie or new to the team, why bother?

He's not going to bother to respond back to you.

The only thing he's here to do is to troll.

You'd think the moderators would catch on to this...

[Brownsfan92]

1.  At the end of the day just give me a dependable number 2 behind Cooper.  I don't care about rookie contracts or how many spaces we moved back. 

2. Jim Schwartz gets a passing grade if he can simply improve the run D and provide a scheme that provides pressure outside of Myles Garrett. 

3.  Does our press always need to obsess about our second string QB?  They are always looking for the next thing, its annoying.

[Orion]

4 minutes ago, Brownsfan92 said:

3.  Does our press always need to obsess about our second string QB?  

Welcome.

...and yes.  Especially this time of year.

I was glad to read about our draft pick QB looking good during the OTA.  

[ballpeen]

19 hours ago, Orion said:

Welcome.

...and yes.  Especially this time of year.

I was glad to read about our draft pick QB looking good during the OTA.  

No doubt.  When in shorts, you sure don't want to read about him missing all sorts of throws.

[gumby73]

On 5/29/2023 at 10:58 AM, Brownsfan92 said:

2. Jim Schwartz gets a passing grade if he can simply improve the run D and provide a scheme that provides pressure outside of Myles Garrett. 

Welcome on board !

One day left of OTA's

I've never known Jim Schwartz to shy away from his plans..

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/longformarticle/cleveland-browns-defense-2023-210965979/#2175375  

 

Browns mandatory minicamp: June 6-8 heading to the Greenbrier in West Virginia from July 22-30.

 

 

[tiamat63]

8 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

Welcome on board !

One day left of OTA's

I've never known Jim Schwartz to shy away from his plans..

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/longformarticle/cleveland-browns-defense-2023-210965979/#2175375  

 

Browns mandatory minicamp: June 6-8 heading to the Greenbrier in West Virginia from July 22-30.

 

 

 

From the article.

 

ROTATING NICKEL COVERAGE ROLE

Denzel Ward spoke today about the slot corner role being a moving target for the defense. He noted he will be aligning in there more often and Schwartz also touched on the topic.

 

 

From a couple months ago....

 

 

 Like I've said before, Woods wasn't the 1st, 2nd or 3rd thing wrong with this defense.  But he did (didn't do) some things I would have liked to see.  Having Ward play more snaps in the slot is probably the biggest one of those.  

 

 

[Unsympathetic]

Possibly OT, but fun

Tampa 2 is just a cover 3 with different players in the deep zone

If you're not aware how a "modern" NFL defense plays man on one side of the field and zone on the other.. you might learn something by watching.

[syd]

On 5/30/2023 at 3:34 AM, ballpeen said:

No doubt.  When in shorts, you sure don't want to read about him missing all sorts of throws.

here is baker in ota's

 

[Kvoethe]

On 5/29/2023 at 8:32 AM, Dutch Oven said:

He's not going to bother to respond back to you.

The only thing he's here to do is to troll.

You'd think the moderators would catch on to this...

Ooooh, my stalker is back.

[Kvoethe]

On 5/29/2023 at 5:37 AM, ballpeen said:

I suppose you mean Myles.

 

Linemen don't matter.  It might matter for new players so they can get to know some of their teammates, but linemen and backs don't have anything to do during these sessions.  As was stated in the article, it is a passing camp, so unless I was a rookie or new to the team, why bother?

Be a leader?

[Dutch Oven]

12 minutes ago, Kvoethe said:

Ooooh, my stalker is back.

Oooh, the troll is back. 

[ballpeen]

13 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

 

From the article.

 

ROTATING NICKEL COVERAGE ROLE

Denzel Ward spoke today about the slot corner role being a moving target for the defense. He noted he will be aligning in there more often and Schwartz also touched on the topic.

 

 

From a couple months ago....

 

 

 Like I've said before, Woods wasn't the 1st, 2nd or 3rd thing wrong with this defense.  But he did (didn't do) some things I would have liked to see.  Having Ward play more snaps in the slot is probably the biggest one of those.  

 

 

I am not so sure.

 

To me the big problem was communication.  That is on the D coordinator.

 

Everything I gather is there was too much thinking and not enough reacting and making the O react to what you are doing.  Teaching graduate material to an undergraduate class is on the professor if everybody is failing.

 

 

[ballpeen]

9 hours ago, Kvoethe said:

Be a leader?

And do what?  I am serious.  Standing around is being a leader?  Plus, who says Myles is or wants to be a leader?  You don't pin the leader tag on the donkey.  It just happens.  Some special teams player can emerge as a leader.  It doesn't have to be the best player.

 

As fans we many times think the best player has to be the leader, but the players on the team determine who is the leader.

[Flugel]

On 5/29/2023 at 10:58 AM, Brownsfan92 said:

1.  At the end of the day just give me a dependable number 2 behind Cooper.  I don't care about rookie contracts or how many spaces we moved back. 

2. Jim Schwartz gets a passing grade if he can simply improve the run D and provide a scheme that provides pressure outside of Myles Garrett. 

3.  Does our press always need to obsess about our second string QB?  They are always looking for the next thing, its annoying.

1 & 2. BINGO

3. Depending on how old fans are - you may find a lot of people that agree with you about the focus on the 2nd string QB.  In 1970 the Browns traded up for the 3rd overall pick - Purdue's Mike Phipps.   That never unfolded as the Browns hoped it would and Bill Nelsen's knees where slamming his career into park.  2 years later, the Browns drafted a guy that was almost 6'1" tall at 170lbs in the 13th round out of San Diego State.  Rumor had it, if this guy participated in a punt, pass and kick competition for teenage girls - he'd be lucky if he finished in the top 3.  This guy's name was Brian Sipe who went on to become the only NFL MVP this franchise has had after the 60s.  With all the disappointing 1st round QBs this franchise has drafted after the 80s, the most popular guy in Cleveland always seemed to be the 2nd string QB.  I still remember a game where Tim Couch laid motionless for a few minutes or so on the field.  Consequently, Kelly Holcomb started warming up his arm to what sounded like the chorus of 60,000 fans cheering.  Even though many/most of them weren't cheering Couch's injury - it still seemed kind of eerie. That's all part of that culture where the 2nd string QB in Cleveland was very popular with the fans. The best way to sell newspapers was to feed that craving from our fanbase right or wrong.  It does get old after a while so I GET why you feel the way you do.  Just know, it's not going away any time soon. 

[Flugel]

1 hour ago, ballpeen said:

And do what?  I am serious.  Standing around is being a leader?  Plus, who says Myles is or wants to be a leader?  You don't pin the leader tag on the donkey.  It just happens.  Some special teams player can emerge as a leader.  It doesn't have to be the best player.

 

As fans we many times think the best player has to be the leader, but the players on the team determine who is the leader.

Good points! 

However, I will say that the work ethic of Garrett and Chubb make them both good leaders by example for the younger guys transitioning from college to PROFESSIONAL football.  They can be quiet leaders in that way; but they don't necessarily have to be team captains per say. Like you said, the players often vote on that because it's effective.

[Flugel]

On 5/29/2023 at 8:32 AM, Dutch Oven said:

He's not going to bother to respond back to you.

The only thing he's here to do is to troll.

You'd think the moderators would catch on to this...

Do you find it interesting that many of the guys that wanted Donald Trump to be their political messiah don't want Deshaun Watson to be the QB of the Browns? 

[Dutch Oven]

2 hours ago, Flugel said:

Do you find it interesting that many of the guys that wanted Donald Trump to be their political messiah don't want Deshaun Watson to be the QB of the Browns? 

I'd don't find anything Trump supporters think "interesting". 

But I get the irony, of course. Their selective moral compass is hilarious.

But let's keep the political talk to the cesspool that is the Poliboard. 

[ballpeen]

9 hours ago, Flugel said:

Good points! 

However, I will say that the work ethic of Garrett and Chubb make them both good leaders by example for the younger guys transitioning from college to PROFESSIONAL football.  They can be quiet leaders in that way; but they don't necessarily have to be team captains per say. Like you said, the players often vote on that because it's effective.

I am not saying guys like that aren't leaders.  I am just saying that showing up to voluntary OTA's makes or doesn't make them leaders.  It's all 7 on 7 stuff.  Linemen of any sort don't do anything but stand around.  There is some classroom stuff, but guys like Myles don't need that.

[Flugel]

20 minutes ago, ballpeen said:

I am not saying guys like that aren't leaders.  I am just saying that showing up to voluntary OTA's makes or doesn't make them leaders.  It's all 7 on 7 stuff.  Linemen of any sort don't do anything but stand around.  There is some classroom stuff, but guys like Myles don't need that.

We're in total agreement, which is why I started with "Good points!" I just wanted to piggyback in that leaders don't need to be loud.  I like your points made as well.

[tiamat63]

11 hours ago, ballpeen said:

I am not so sure.

 

To me the big problem was communication.  That is on the D coordinator.

 

Everything I gather is there was too much thinking and not enough reacting and making the O react to what you are doing.  Teaching graduate material to an undergraduate class is on the professor if everybody is failing.

 

 

 

The two biggest coverage busts, one which went for a big gain that setup the Panthers in scoring position...

The other which gave the Jets a tying touchdown...

 

 Both were to Grant Delpit's side of the field.  Both, unsurprisingly, came with calls being incorrectly given to the corners.   Either not knowing the correct verbiage or just relaying the wrong call to the DB's on your split field is absolutely on your shoulders as a safety.  I've done that before too.  We had a check ("red") against certain looks, and I gave a bad check. Locked a corner in man  and forgot he wasn't in cloud.  RB ended up catching a short gain flat, and took it for a TD in a game that was decided by 6 points against a team from PA (Hickory)  That shit made me sick to my stomach.  

 It's up to the D cord to make sure these players are versed in the language and can effectively communicate within that language.    If somebody botches the call wrong on the field, that isn't on the coach.   Players need accountability as well.   By no small coincidence, once Delpit's role was reduced to more of his 2021 limitations, he started playing better.   Kid just mentally had trouble getting up to speed.   And he was a high 2nd round pick with expectations to take that next step, on a team that didn't have a ton of quality DB play behind him.  

[ballpeen]

2 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

 

The two biggest coverage busts, one which went for a big gain that setup the Panthers in scoring position...

The other which gave the Jets a tying touchdown...

 

 Both were to Grant Delpit's side of the field.  Both, unsurprisingly, came with calls being incorrectly given to the corners.   Either not knowing the correct verbiage or just relaying the wrong call to the DB's on your split field is absolutely on your shoulders as a safety.  I've done that before too.  We had a check ("red") against certain looks, and I gave a bad check. Locked a corner in man  and forgot he wasn't in cloud.  RB ended up catching a short gain flat, and took it for a TD in a game that was decided by 6 points against a team from PA (Hickory)  That shit made me sick to my stomach.  

 It's up to the D cord to make sure these players are versed in the language and can effectively communicate within that language.    If somebody botches the call wrong on the field, that isn't on the coach.   Players need accountability as well.   By no small coincidence, once Delpit's role was reduced to more of his 2021 limitations, he started playing better.   Kid just mentally had trouble getting up to speed.   And he was a high 2nd round pick with expectations to take that next step, on a team that didn't have a ton of quality DB play behind him.  

No doubt players need to be held accountable. I agree 100%.

 

As you said, "It's up to the D cord to make sure these players are versed in the language and can effectively communicate within that language."

 

If the language is too hard, or the player is too dim to be able to do that, you best not play him.  If it is simply a mistake, well, shit happens.

[SdBacker80]

The Jets “Hail Mary” you are up 30-17 under 2 mins…the two deepest guys have one job and one job only don’t let anyone in an opposing jersey deeper than you.  Mistakes happen.  The mistake should have been both guys tailing the deep guy.
 

We may find out Joe had some knuckleheads he was working with but he was given time and draft capital and we had an infusion of talent from his first year…we tried. 
 

 

[Orion]

13 hours ago, Flugel said:

I will say that the work ethic of Garrett and Chubb make them both good leaders by example for the younger guys transitioning from college to PROFESSIONAL football.

umm....neither guy showed up for the OTA.  So that's the 1st work ethic thing the younger players learned from our team leaders.  

[Flugel]

7 hours ago, Orion said:

umm....neither guy showed up for the OTA.  So that's the 1st work ethic thing the younger players learned from our team leaders.  

As bad as that may seem to some of us - try not let it twist your nipples.  Find me 2 veterans on this team that condition themselves better and consistently play at a Pro Bowl level because of it.  At this time of the off-season, I'd rather see the guys competing for the 2nd RB role learning and getting acclimated with all the OTA reps (than the guy that continuously averages over 5 yards a carry and ranks #1 or #2 in yards after contact).   On defense, there's a ton of newbies/newcomers at DE that could use the OTA reps more than Garrett needs them.  It's a long season ahead so they'll have plenty of chances to role model how they became ideal professionals that have EARNED very respectful contract extensions from their employer.  As the season gets underway, new teammates can also watch film of how they excel during games.