Burning Cross and Noose President?

[Chicopee John]

I am not going to support Wilson on his stupid reaction last week.

 

However, it seems to me that, these days, loyal opposition = racism. Sickening, IMHO

 

 

 

White House Dismisses Dowd Claim That Wilson Outburst Was Race-Based

 

Maureen Dowd writes in The New York Times that Rep. Joe Wilson's outburst Wednesday -- when he shouted, You lie," at the president for claiming his health care reform plan would not cover illegal immigrants -- convinced her that racial angst is the underlying motive among Obama critics like Wilson.

 

FOXNews.com Sunday, September 13, 2009

 

 

The White House on Sunday dismissed a claim by New York Times columnist Maureen Dowd that administration critics like Rep. Joe Wilson, who called President Obama a liar during his health care address to Congress, are motivated by race.

 

Wilson, speaking on "FOX News Sunday," also denied the allegation.

 

"No, no," the South Carolina Republican said when asked if Obama's skin color was an issue for him. "Hey, I respect the president. ... I have a great respect for the Obama family."

 

Dowd wrote in her column that Wilson's outburst Wednesday -- when he shouted, You lie," at the president for claiming his health care reform plan would not cover illegal immigrants -- convinced her that racial angst is the underlying motive among Obama critics like Wilson.

 

"I've been loath to admit that the shrieking lunacy of the summer ... had much to do with race," she wrote. "But Wilson's shocking disrespect for the office of the president -- no Democrat ever shouted 'liar' at W. when he was hawking a fake case for war in Iraq -- convinced me: Some people just can't believe a black man is president and will never accept it."

 

Dowd wrote that Wilson "clearly did not like being lectured and even rebuked by the brainy black president presiding over the majestic chamber."

 

Asked about the claim, White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said race is not the factor.

 

"I don't think the president believes that people are upset because of the color of his skin," he said on CNN's "State of the Union." "I think people are upset because on Monday we celebrate the anniversary of the Lehman Brothers collapse that caused a financial catastrophe unlike anything we've ever seen."

 

Dowd's charge of racism is hardly the first to be leveled against administration critics.

 

Most recently, Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., was quoted in early September saying that "bias" and "prejudice" are behind a lot of the public opposition to health care reform.

 

Click here to read the column in The New York Times.

[Westside Steve]

Dowd's commentary is consistently loonier than anything Glens Beck has to say.

And she more closely mirrors the stated opinions of the board lefties.

 

WSS

[Mr. T]

This dosn't suprise me that they would play the race card, I heard that on the news last night. I believe they dont have any support for Socialized Health Care and now it Kangaroo Court Time!

 

Apologize for telling the Truth?

 

I can see it now, hundreds of liitle people with tiny bullhorns running around SC screaming & yelling unfair practices.

[calfoxwc]

Wilson was correct in what he said, but it was poor taste to have yelled it out in the midst of

 

Obama lying.

 

It's just bizarre, I've still been reading the stupid bill, and Obama is either lying,

 

or stupidly parroting his teleprompter, with no idea at all that what he's saying is not true.

 

It lends more and more legimate credence to the theory that Obama is an empty suit,

 

and is a young, black figurehead for a leftist shadow government. Or.. well... something...

[heckofajobbrownie]

Oh, there's a racial component to the Republican opposition, for sure. It's obviously not everyone. It might not even be most. But it's clearly there. Hell, I've got relatives who can barely conceal their hatred for Obama/black people. It's not that hard to see.

 

It's also not hard to see on this board.

 

Of course, according these people, nobody is ever racist. Reverse-racism? Oh, yeah. But no one is actually racist.

 

They never are.

 

I think it's better described as tribalism these days, but it's got a real racial component to it.

 

Look at Drudge today. He's got pictures of three scary black people being scary, and does this routinely. Who do you think he's playing to, the enlightened?

[Chicopee John]

You miss the point, though, Heck.

 

WE ARE ALL RACIST.

 

I have no problem saying that. In fact, I am absolutely sure it is true.

 

Just axe around.

[heckofajobbrownie]

Look, I'm not a Dowd fan. I can only take so many columns about how some major social problem or politician is like Grey's Anatomy. This is the first column of hers I've read in years.

 

But this board is hardly the only contact I have with the base of the Republican Party, or the fringe of the Republican Party. Or in T's case, paranoid lunatics in general.

 

Come down South with me some time. My relatives are from where a few civil rights workers were killed and thrown in a ditch. They remember that night. They were there when people were throwing rocks at James Meredith. Of course, you can't find a single person who will own up to doing this, or shouting epithets at him - they were all there, but didn't participate somehow. Much like today, when nobody is ever a racist.

 

If you think all those feelings and beliefs went away and they're completely reformed now, really, you should come "visitin'" with me.

 

Next to some of these people, a guy like Steve is a lesson in open-mindedness.

[osusev]

I dont know where I fall on this topic Heck, I definately think that some part of racism is being turned into opposition for other more socially acceptable fear mongering like "socialism".... etc.

 

I dont know what percentage but I do believe its there at the root. However that clever redirection also has valid criticisms so it is impossible to distinguish between racism and valid criticisms now. No one (except for some extremists) wants to be labeled a racist and Obama is so far different from the stereotypes he makes accomplished people feel inadequate lol (thats a good thing and finally a leader who can is refreshing)

 

Its there under the surface but no one will ever know to what true percentage.

 

South Carolina..... racist..... you mean the good old boys network does not still exist there with real racism? lmao.... I think Wilson actually disagrees with the president based solely upon the immigrant issue but would NEVER had disrespected a white president in such a way if he did not have some sort of base racism eating away at him at the core.... So yes I do think he is a racist and that is why he yelled out inappropriately because he as a person does not like that Obama is Black and now the president.

[Chicopee John]

I agree, except for the comment about WSS.

 

PS Lots of racists of all persuasions in the North and West too. Like I said, we are all racist although - I agree - some are more palatible (sp) than others.

 

We do a lot of bidness in the South, BTW.

[calfoxwc]

The warped call of racism when disagreed with is inane.

 

Decrying ANY opposing viewpoints by demonizing them has long since

 

been rebuked by those on the board who simply want the freedom to disagree

 

on issues.

 

Just another change of subject by Heck. He just....can't.....handle being disagreed with.

 

This president is so profoundly divisive, he makes Pres W Bush look good.

 

And that's BAD.

 

 

 

 

[heckofajobbrownie]

I don't think it's wise to try and paint all of the opposition as racist. It's much easier to paint them as people who are wrong on the facts and are just trying to scare you with nonsense, because they almost always are.

 

As for the regions of the country, I'd certainly agree that racism is everywhere. And I'd suggest that it's also more pronounced in certain regions, most notably the south, particularly among the older generation.

[Mr. T]

One guy yelling you lie = AN ATROCITY. The entire left side of the aisle standing during a State of the Union Address and disrupting, trying to belittle President Bush, and generally blowing smoke up their own asses for obstructing Social Security Reform = NOBLENESS. *NOTE WHO IS CIRCLED.

 

[Legacy Fan]

Wow, the South is racist. That's a fresh take. Is there anything more lazy than that statement? I sure as shit can't find it.

 

IIRC, the Emancipation Proclamation didn't come with any train tickets.

 

 

Then again, I did learn my schoolin' with those bigoted southern history books.

[Mr. T]

The south is full of racism, just like anywhere else in this country. The only thing is it is not practiced like some would want you to believe.

 

Have you ever heard of reverse racism? You could say thats what is happening when someone uses the race card. And usalyy that person chanting it holds a lot of remorse towards anothers skin color or ethnic background.

 

IMO, racism is only used to push political agendas, ideals or force upon all new laws or restrictions that they wish. Sometimes that is the last piece of ammo they have left. Ask OJ.

 

But to say people in SC or older people from the south are racist, you might want to make sure you are not holding any prejudices yourself.

 

For what its worth....

End political correct racism

 

[Legacy Fan]

Interesting pic, T. It may be my screen, but that flag never flew anywhere nor represented the C.S.A. at any time during the War Between the States. If that blue is royal & not Navy, then it flew as the 2nd CSA "Naval Jack" - but it looks Navy to me. And that flag represents nothing but hate. Sorry.

 

Here's a better image of what you're trying to get across: a black man flying the (2nd) 2nd National.

image linked rather than displayed

[Mr. T]

Thats the problem with stereotyping and when people make assumptions about what they dont know.

 

Just as when we read about N. korea, we have a man who is from Korea and he can enlighten us about truth and facts of what is going on and not the lies we are told.

 

Such as the Hypocritical attacks of of the Left on Joe Wilson, they want to paint a big bad picture of him because he knew what being told to Americans was a Bold Lie, but once it is said and not refuted right away 85% of americans will believe it even if it is proven wrong the next day. I for one am glad he spoke up, it had to be done even if it was out of context for the evening.

 

To many want to place the executive branch higher than congress, and that is wrong, the president is not a lord, king/queen or royalty. he is an elected official. If we make the mistake of not allowing checks and balances then we have lost everything that has been good in our form of representative government. Republic not Democracy.

[Westside Steve]

Look, I'm not a Dowd fan. I can only take so many columns about how some major social problem or politician is like Grey's Anatomy. This is the first column of hers I've read in years.

 

But this board is hardly the only contact I have with the base of the Republican Party, or the fringe of the Republican Party. Or in T's case, paranoid lunatics in general.

 

Come down South with me some time. My relatives are from where a few civil rights workers were killed and thrown in a ditch. They remember that night. They were there when people were throwing rocks at James Meredith. Of course, you can't find a single person who will own up to doing this, or shouting epithets at him - they were all there, but didn't participate somehow. Much like today, when nobody is ever a racist.

 

If you think all those feelings and beliefs went away and they're completely reformed now, really, you should come "visitin'" with me.

 

Next to some of these people, a guy like Steve is a lesson in open-mindedness.

 

And the charge is an easy one to make, though basically meaningless.

Especially from assholes like Heck who have so little of substance to offer.

Makes him look so caring and all.....

 

WSS

[heckofajobbrownie]

I know, Steve. You're not racist. You've just never said anything positive about black people ever, and refer to them as poor illiterate criminals on welfare, are suspect of any of their accomplishments, and make fun of how you imagine they talk. But it's not because you resent them. It's because you love them.

[Chicopee John]

I know, Steve. You're not racist. You've just never said anything positive about black people ever, and refer to them as poor illiterate criminals on welfare, are suspect of any of their accomplishments, and make fun of how you imagine they talk. But it's not because you resent them. It's because you love them.

 

Hey, Brother Steve has been divorced a couple of times. He has ALWAYS had trouble showing his love. He is often misunderstood.

[Westside Steve]

I know, Steve. You're not racist. You've just never said anything positive about black people ever, and refer to them as poor illiterate criminals on welfare, are suspect of any of their accomplishments, and make fun of how you imagine they talk. But it's not because you resent them. It's because you love them.

 

 

Actually Heck the facts make you angry.

I can't and you won't change that.

Like Democrat spokesman Fitty Cent said about Bush, I don't care ablout Black people.

Sorry.

So if crime and poverty are higher in that communty and education levels lower I'd say the racist is the guy who condones anti social behavior based on skin color.

And swoons over a president whose skin color is similar to some of the slaves ancestors because of it.

Hell he doesn't even share that history.

But to put them on a pedestal?

Nah, I'll pass.

 

But they do talk funny.

C'mon Heck. Does Ebonics exist in any other American culture?

 

WSS

[heckofajobbrownie]

Gee, you sure proved me wrong.

 

Thanks for all of those "facts." They made me so angry.

 

Ps - You're batting about .877 on your "swoon" theme. What a put-away that is. How do I come back from that?

[Westside Steve]

Gee, you sure proved me wrong.

 

Thanks for all of those "facts." They made me so angry.

 

Ps - You're batting about .877 on your "swoon" theme. What a put-away that is. How do I come back from that?

 

 

And that's your .877 with your bullshit racist bit, poser.

 

If you don't love the emptyu suit you're a racist.

Got it.

WSS

[heckofajobbrownie]

Ha. Nice straw man.

 

But constant and angry expressions of contempt for black people usually qualifies. You would be guilty of that.

 

You seem to think because some people overcompensate this means you don't have a real contempt for blacks. Four years of your writing on this board suggests otherwise. After all, you refer to them only by their stereotype.

 

But yes, I must be seeing things. (Like what you write.)

[Westside Steve]

Ha. Nice straw man.

 

But constant and angry expressions of contempt for black people usually qualifies. You would be guilty of that.

 

So post a few.

The contempt you hear is toward choads such as yourself who harp on that phony point.

Straw man?

Look in the mirror for once.

 

Lets try to switch from Obama being a disingenuous tool to him being a victim of racism.

 

You seriously think people would be nicer to president Waxman Feingold Reid or Pelosi?

(Oh I forgot to criticize Pelosi would be mysogeny)

 

Hey you hated Condi Rice.

You're a racist AND a mysogenist!

Gosh.

 

WSS

[calfoxwc]

Heck:

 

You lie.

 

So, there ya go.

[heckofajobbrownie]

So post a few.

The contempt you hear is toward choads such as yourself who harp on that phony point.

Straw man?

Look in the mirror for once.

 

Lets try to switch from Obama being a disingenuous tool to him being a victim of racism.

 

You seriously think people would be nicer to president Waxman Feingold Reid or Pelosi?

(Oh I forgot to criticize Pelosi would be mysogeny)

 

Hey you hated Condi Rice.

You're a racist AND a mysogenist!

Gosh.

 

WSS

 

Now we're going to pretend we didn't have this "illiterate criminals on welfare" discussion? Really? How about the one where you claimed, without evidence, that Barack Obama got the job as editor of the law review because of affirmative action? Even Tupa scolded you on that one. This stuff was discussed at length in the old forum. If someone can tell me how to search the old forum I'd be happy to produce some of your greatest hits.

 

Again, you speak of blacks only in stereotypes. Thugs on welfare who speak funny. And what was it not too long ago? Their "anti-social behavior" is the cause of all their own problems? I believe you also attributed their problems to their "attitudes towards whites." Not once, even when challenged, have I heard you acknowledge that maybe, say, the fact that in many parts of this country, and in recent history, blacks were legally oppressed second-class citizens might have had some effect. You simply cheer for the white team, and then pretend you don't care who is what, and that you're just an observer with no feelings either way. Apparently the fact that you're white and come to all these conclusions is mere coincidence. You don't even think that being white is a racial identity as well, and that it affects how you think and perceive things. And then, moments later, you'll assail any black who suggests anything about racial identity. The lack of self-awareness is comical.

 

Yes, Steve, I think you've got a real contempt for blacks in general, and have shown it fairly clearly on this forum. Or let's put it this way: Your past writings on this forum would almost certainly get you fired from a political job and cause grave, public embarrassment to your employer. People would distance themselves from the things you've written. Of that I am 100% sure. It could not stand the light of day. Someone would vet your writings and say, "Are you kidding me?"

 

Now, I'm sure you'll suggest that it's because we live in a bullshit PC world, as if the kernels of truth in that absolve what you've written, and what you believe. But what you probably don't understand is that this country has passed you and others like you by, and you're living in a by-gone era where tossing around this kind of "illiterate criminals on welfare" stereotype was okay, and you should know better. You're not an idiot. You're merely a grump and an asshole.

 

Nor do I hate Condi Rice, and the suggestion that I do or did is nonsense and unsupportable. I did say, and still believe, that she wasn't a very good National Security Advisor, a belief that isn't hard to find in foreign policy circles. I thought she did a far better job as Secretary of State, and succeeded in toning down some of the worst Bush policies of the first term. How you construe this as "hate" I don't know, other than because it's convenient. She's a remarkably talented and accomplished woman who still has lots of offer the national debate. And I'd imagine that the fact that she wasn't a very effective NSA is something she's probably concede to. Because she wasn't.

 

But let's go on record here, Steve. Are you honestly suggesting that there's no racial component to some of the anger being thrown at Obama? Yes, I believe the quality of the hatred is more pronounced because of his race. I think any Democrat would get their share of wingnut bullshit hurled at them to go along with the valid critiques and the usual partisan debate/bickering, but this is different, and it's worse because of who he is; what his background is. Christ, you've got a movement of people who can't even come to terms with the idea that he's an American. You're suggesting that a white guy from Hawaii would have these same questions raised? That over half of Republicans would deny his citizenship?

 

You don't think there were signs being held up by people in Washington this past weekend that had racist messages on them? This is something we can't even mention or acknowledge, lest we offend the people who are so offensive?

 

You don't think the problem of racism still exists, and is more pronounced in certain pockets of the country?

 

Do you imagine that the reality that some minorities don't like white people means there is no racism in this country?

 

I can't imagine that even you are going to deny this. But then again, that would take you agreeing with me, and we can't have that.

[We need Tom Tupa]

Jimmy Carter wants a piece of this action:

 

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/politics...t-59410277.html

Former President Jimmy Carter said in an interview Tuesday that Congressman Joe Wilson's "you lie" outburst to President Obama was "based on racism" and that many of the critiques leveled against the president have been made because of his black heritage.

 

[Legacy Fan]

Jimmy Carter wants a piece of this action:

 

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/politics...t-59410277.html

Way to keep up, Jim.

[Westside Steve]

Now we're going to pretend we didn't have this "illiterate criminals on welfare" discussion? Really? How about the one where you claimed, without evidence, that Barack Obama got the job as editor of the law review because of affirmative action? Even Tupa scolded you on that one. This stuff was discussed at length in the old forum. If someone can tell me how to search the old forum I'd be happy to produce some of your greatest hits.

 

I will read the rest Heck, but yes we have had a few conversations about this.

 

I don't deny any of those conversations. You are, as usual, incorrectly rephrasing for your own benefit.

 

First I gave an opinion based on the prevailing attitude at Harvard at the time that a desire to select a Black man was probable IMO

I gave the words of one of his fellow members that it was true, he said "we wanted one of our own."

The president himself said that it was possible.

So did you.

And you DID claim, without any more evidence, that Clarence Thomas got his job that way.

 

And I never said all Blacks were "illiterate thugs on welfare."

You made that up so your lefty pals could squeal with glee.

 

I do say that the education level among Blacks is lower than other minority groups in the same areas.

Just as Whites are lower than Asians in the same areas.

So what?

You can bemoan that fact or you can give me the reasons you think it's true.

 

Crime is also higher in the Black community.

Check the Black on White as opposed to White on Black crime rates.

And poverty.

Again you can deny that OR give the reasons for it, but pick one.

 

 

 

Let me ask you Heck, honestly if that's possible for you, what is the cause of these situations?

 

Racism? On whose part?

Lack of social programs?

Genetics?

Mercury in Venus?

 

Seriously how do you make everyone equal in every area?

 

 

 

WSS

[Westside Steve]

 

 

 

 

But let's go on record here, Steve.

 

Fair enough Heck.

Something you steadfastly refuse to do but why not?

 

Are you honestly suggesting that there's no racial component to some of the anger being thrown at Obama?

 

Sure there is. There are people who don't like Blacks. Whites Asians Serbs Jews etc as well.

 

But there are many more who give him a pass because he is. So that's a racial component too.

 

 

Yes, I believe the quality of the hatred is more pronounced because of his race. I think any Democrat would get their share of wingnut bullshit hurled at them to go along with the valid critiques and the usual partisan debate/bickering, but this is different, and it's worse because of who he is; what his background is.

 

 

Self awareness Heck?

If you can remember the insane hatred of G W Bush you'll know (but never admit) that's bullshit.

You don't think your "truther" buddies are nuts? Or are you one?

 

 

Christ, you've got a movement of people who can't even come to terms with the idea that he's an American. You're suggesting that a white guy from Hawaii would have these same questions raised? That over half of Republicans would deny his citizenship?

 

Let's be specific. A White guy whose father and stepfather were White foreign Muslims who trotted him thru Muslim schools in the third world and whose original birth certificate is questionable?

Sure Heck, I think somebody would ride that bus.

Personally I think it''s bullshit but good for a laugh.

 

You don't think there were signs being held up by people in Washington this past weekend that had racist messages on them? This is something we can't even mention or acknowledge, lest we offend the people who are so offensive?

 

Don't know. I didn'ty see any but I don't doubt there were.

I also don't think that was the reason for the march.

(But I think marches and protests are basically stupid)

 

You don't think the problem of racism still exists, and is more pronounced in certain pockets of the country?

 

Yes I do.

(Though I think it's more widespread)

However I don't think it's that much of a problem.

There's no culture you can find in which group A doesn't fight with group B. Or C or D.

It is human nature.

If there aren't physical differences we'll fine religious ones.

If there aren't religious ones we'll find sects among the same damn religions to bicker with.

 

Do you imagine that the reality that some minorities don't like white people means there is no racism in this country?

 

There is. And it doesn't really matter very much.

Also the problems there are exist more because of Blacks poor attitudes toward Whites than vice versa.

 

I can't imagine that even you are going to deny this. But then again, that would take you agreeing with me, and we can't have that.

 

I only bicker with you when you're a "grump and and an asshole."

Oops. Sorry, I guess that's a lot of the time....

 

WSS