Manning vs Manning vs Quinn

[Lumbergh]

Thats one of the few times ive seen you whiff Zombo.

Not a valid option.

 

haha. benching an inept QB for the pro bowler is not an option, eh?

 

why not?

 

I bet Mangini and Company are kicking that idea around in their staff meeting this morning.

 

[cmac12]

Peyton Manning

 

9/06/98 vs MIA L 15-24

Comp: 21

Attmpt:37

Rating: 56.8

 

9/13/98 @ NE L 6-29

Comp: 21

Attmpt: 33

Rating: 63.6

 

9/20/98 @ NYJ L 6-44

Comp: 20

Attmpt: 44

Rating: 45.5

 

9/27/98 NO L 13-19

Comp: 19

Attmpt: 32

Rating: 59.4

 

Totals for first 4 games

10 points per game

40 total points in 4 games

4 losses

Rating: 56.3

 

 

Eli Manning

 

9/12/04 @ PHI L 17-31

Comp: 3

Attmpt: 9

Rating: 60.4

 

11/21/04 ATL L 10-14

Comp: 17

Attmp: 37

Rating: 45.1

 

11/28/04 PHI L 6-27

Comp: 6

Attmp: 21

Rating: 16.9

 

12/05/04 @ WAS L 7-31

Comp: 12

Attmpt: 25

Rating: 60.9

 

Totals for first 4 games

10 points per game

40 total points in 4 games

4 losses

Rating: 45.8

 

 

Brady Quinn

 

11/06/08 DEN L 30-34

Comp: 22

Attmpt: 35

Rating: 104.3

 

11/17/08 @ BUF W 29-27

Comp: 14

Attmpt: 36

Rating: 55.9

 

11/23/08 HOU L 6-16

Comp: 8

Attmpt: 18

Rating: 21.3

 

09/13/08 MIN L 20-34

Comp: 21

Attmpt: 35

Rating: 74.1

 

Totals for first 4 games

21.5 points per game

85 total points in 4 games

1 win and 3 losses

Rating: 63.8

 

Point of story, even Super Bowl QB's are given a chance to get comfortable. I'm still hoping for great things from Quinn. His reputation is better leadership and less turn overs than he displayed on Sunday. The only thing for this team to do at this point is get behind him 100%.

 

Chin up mates, let's see how this story unfolds.

 

N.B. Anybody else watch JaMarcus last night? With over a year's experience, "appropriately" drafted higher than Quinn according to draft experts, and a full off season of snaps, he lays an egg with a QB rating of 45 last night. I wonder what Raider nation is saying.

 

So we can use comparisions to show how BQ stacks up and it is valid but when comparisons are used to show how DA stacks up with many top QBs after 27 starts those are not valid arguments?

 

Like many said on this board when looking at how DA compares to others, it is the smell test. And that game stunk. BQ did do a nice job in the pocket, but I can just imagine what people would have said if DA dropped the ball on a scramble throw. Things like what a Dumb Ass. He is losing us the game. He is so clumsy.

 

I mean BQ gets sacked 5 times and has two turnovers and I have seen some people say it was the offensive lines fault and that DA would have gotten sacked 12 times and thrown 3 interceptions. Get a grip, this is an improved OL I have seen many here say that. This is a top 5 OL I have seen that. And DA would have been sacked 12 times? When was the last time you saw DA sacked more than 3 times? He releases the ball too fast (Not always correct when doing so) to get sacked that many times.

 

I am not saying DA would have done better than BQ I am saying BQ did not play well that game and his rating would have been closer to 20 if the Vikings had not played prevent defense in that last possession. This is his first start this year, you can not make a huge deal about it. After 8 games you can make a judgement. But when BQ has a bad game you need to expect people to attack him. Remember the bar was set when DA was QB. There are NO excuses!!! Not the OL, Not the play calling, Not the receivers and Not this is his 4th start. Excuses were not good for DA and they are notr good for BQ.

 

In this game BQ sucked, that does not mean he sucks. Just means he had a bad game.

[Legacy Fan]

How bout he starts winning in September or it's Anderson's team in October.

 

Zombo

 

 

I'd rather we give it to Cribbs. If Queen is that bad, we know Anderception is that bad - might as well give it to #16. Clearly Daboll wants to run, and throw short shitty shit. Josh can handle it for 2-3 months. Cribbs, Lewis & Davis/Harrison in the backfield. Vickers as 1 TE, and Heiden as the other. Have Furrey line up at WR, and spell him with MoMass.

 

F' the WildDawg, spread option this bitch and draft Tebow in April.

 

 

I mean, if we've already given up on the season... I'm giving up thinking before I type. Just whatever farts out of my brain is getting plastered to the interweb.

[Zombo]

Thats one of the few times ive seen you whiff Zombo.

Not a valid option.

 

So you're saying that if we are 0-3 and Quinn has played all three games like Sunday, you don't think Mangini should switch to Anderson to try and salvage the season?

 

I do.

 

Again, I don't think it will happen ... I fully expect BQ to play much better this week. And I'm expecting a better defensive performance as well.

 

But if we get off to a bad start this season and Quinn is shaky every week then I think Mangini goes to Anderson, who has proven he can win games and who was barely beaten out by Quinn. Plus ... there is the matter of Quinn's contract.

 

This isn't a prediction. I don't expect Quinn to continue to play badly. And I certainly don't want him to play badly. I'm saying if he does ... he will force Mangini's hand.

 

Zombo

[damajuki]

Ocon, THANK YOU for starting an intelligent thread on the QB play. Great posts all around in here, too.

 

Zombo: you have a good point about Quinn needing to improve but it's truly ridiculous to say "It's his third year, he has 4 games to show us he'll be great." It just doesn't work that way, and you know it.

 

I think it's more reasonable to say he gets 4 games to show us consistently positive results: good reads, accurate throws, no turnovers, smart audibles, etc. Those are things he supposedly excels at and those are the things we need to see him do.

 

And if he can do those things consistently, the results will come.

 

One thing we 100% agree on: it's on him. He's gotta find a way to produce, even amidst an offense seemingly in search of a gameplan.

[MoonlitKnight]

Plus with the way bq's contract is structured they wouldn't want to pay him incentive money so he can stink up the joint,just like the Titans didn't want to pay young,or the Niners didn't want to pay Alex Smith. It's a business,first and foremost.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Give me a contender and I'll pay you whatever it takes!

Thats the silliest argument ive ever heard.

:smiles indulgently:you think so?Go ask Lerner if he thinks it's silly..or Koko...what's silly is this excuse making for quinn...if you owned a small business and you hire a guy who is supposed to be a whiz kid,then he doesn't perform up to snuff,and costs your company money,plus has an incentive in his contract,that if he shows up for work 70%of the time you have to pay him a hefty bonus what would you do?Is that clear enough for ya?get it now?

[Lumbergh]

I'd rather we give it to Cribbs. If Queen is that bad, we know Anderception is that bad - might as well give it to #16.

 

yeah, won't happen

 

If Quinn continues to play like shit, it'll be Anderson

 

[OconRecon]

hey Ocon, what you really want is for DA to be shipped outta town pronto, then your BF has less of a threat waiting on the bench to replace him..the Browns would be fools to get rid of DA now...you can make all the comparisons with other qb's ya want..it doesn't mean shit...all that means anything is the numbers in the win/lose column..Quinn reminded me a lot of Russel ,both have accuracy problems.

 

 

It's true I don't want to go back to DA. I've made no secret about it.

 

I just find it interesting many of the same people who feel Quinn should produce now in a "what have you done for me lately" league want to site DA's '07 performance of yester-year as a reason to go back to him.

 

I do want to stick with Quinn as long as progress is seen, even it it isn't rapid progress. Not sure I have the patience for baby-steps. If he goes from two turnovers to 3-4-5 and starts that DA level of ball protection, I'm not for either, BFF or not.

[cmac12]

It's true I don't want to go back to DA. I've made no secret about it.

 

I just find it interesting many of the same people who feel Quinn should produce now in a "what have you done for me lately" league want to site DA's '07 performance of yester-year as a reason to go back to him.

 

I do want to stick with Quinn as long as progress is seen, even it it isn't rapid progress. Not sure I have the patience for baby-steps. If he goes from two turnovers to 3-4-5 and starts that DA level of ball protection, I'm not for either, BFF or not.

DA averaged 1.25 turnovers a game (or 1.29 can't remember). Very similar to what all the other QBs in the league produce. He does not turn the ball over 2-4-5 times a game. He obviously has games where he did do that but not as many as people seem to think. BQ has averaged less than 1 turnover a game going into this season (I think around .7). He turned the ball over twice last week with a very conservative game plan. It is one game, lets see what he does for 8.

[damajuki]

cmac, it's not simply the amount of DA's TO's it's the TIMING of them. He repeatedly showed NO ability to understand game situations and adjust accordingly.

 

The guy simply only ever drives at one speed, so to speak, regardless of the traffic situation.

 

Sometimes he gets the team home safe and other times it's a car wreck.

 

That's the issue with DA.

[Lumbergh]

It's true I don't want to go back to DA. I've made no secret about it.

 

Doesn't matter what you want. Anderson is the alternative.

 

And Quinn won't get endless games to try and have a good one some day.

 

[Lumbergh]

Sometimes he gets the team home safe and other times it's a car wreck.

 

I agree, with Anderson there is an opportunity to win every game, and you don't know what's gonna happen.

 

Quinn doesn't bring that kind of anxiety to games.

 

In his games the offense is simply so inept that the fans go home in the 3rd qtr.

 

 

 

[Guest ATENEARS]

And two straight coaching staffs decided they had enough of Anderson's "excitement" and decided for all his "ineptitude" Quinn was the better guy to start.

 

Harsh isn't it?

 

Yet both coaching staffs were fired, just last season.

 

Another harsh reality.

[choco]

i expect more out of a first rounder then.....like, much more than the 6th rounder. perhaps thats the reason for the short leash....for 2 years, we've been hearing how good quinn is, about how awesome his short throws and accuracy are.

 

ill be waiting to see it when if happens.

 

 

[Legacy Fan]

yeah, won't happen

 

If Quinn continues to play like shit, it'll be Anderson

Who also plays like shit. Or has more than he hasn't. If Quinn fails, we draft a QB, and we're back to sq one.

[CIMO.]

I still can't get excited about either quarterback....but this is all I could think of when seeing the subject for this thread...

 

[FSG]

Bull Phucken Shit.

 

He deserves ... we have to ...

 

No, no, no.

 

He needs to win and prove he deserves to be starting now.

 

Anderson put up 3,700 yards, 29 TDs and 10 wins his first year as a starter.

 

He was a sixth round pick, two training camps, four emergency starts, one year in the system, new offensive coordinator, taking over a team that was 4-13 and going 10-5 with them.

 

There is no good argument that Quinn needs to be babyfed or that we have to endure two more seasons of suckage because for some reason "we have to".

 

I thought Quinn won the job because the coaching staff decided he was better. Right here. Right now. That is what I fully expect. If you are telling me that Quinn is a two-year project that we must suffer with instead of having a better chance of winning games right now with Anderson ... then I am telling you that you are dead wrong.

 

I'm not giving up on Quinn. I'm saying I'm very disappointed and his window of opportunity just shrunk.

 

This was the guy that was the most "NFL-ready" QB prospect of his class. I'm sitting here three years later watching him dink around and play Keystone Kops while the only guy that has given me any hope at the position over the past decade dutifully backs him up.

 

Quinn needs to come out this week, win a football game, take command of the offense and put this shit to bed. It's in his hands.

 

Zombo

 

 

You can't even be right about your own team....

 

In case you haven't watched, or you don't get it (which is obvious), the problem with Anderson is he simply does not have the mental part of the game down. You love to focus on the 2007 season -- he had great stats. Whoop Dee Doo. The NFL has a long history of one year wonders who had great stats....and his were built up due to an incredibly easy schedule.

 

But when the rubber meets the road, when the pressure ever hit, he cannot rise to the occasion. In fact, he falters. He had the Steelers on the ropes in 07....and the whole second half he choked. He had the opportunity to reach the playoffs that year by beating a mediocre Cincy team....and he choked.

 

You have close to two years on the book of Derek Anderson and you know what you have. It's not going to work.

 

So you let a young guy go out and see what he has. Smart teams don't have quick hooks, they let players work out through difficult times and test what they have. Anderson got his opportunity and didn't make the most of it. If you had any clue, you would get that.

 

But as always, you are clueless.

[Zombo]

Geez, I can't believe what a bunch of reactionary bitches we have on here. Win in sept or gone by October? Really Zombo, you're that f*cking clueless on how to bring a young QB along?

 

Not only am I that clueless, but I guarantee you that Eric Mangini is that clueless too.

 

Bring a young QB along??

 

This is the NFL. The #1 sports league. Jobs are on the line. People are getting paid enormous amounts of money. Fan bases are not going to fill seats in a bad economy for two shit years while a team "brings a young QB along".

 

Flacco and Ryan were in the playoffs last year. This isn't 1972 where you draft a guy in the first round and have to play him for four years before you decide he sucks.

 

He's in his third year. His contract escalates. There is a Pro Bowler behind him. Mankock is not married to him ... do the math.

 

Zombo

[Guest ATENEARS]

You can't even be right about your own team....

 

Don't look now Zippy, but your gay Steeler lover is back.

 

He knows all about bad QB's, his franchise started Kordell Stewart for 80 games before pulling that hair-pin trigger.

[Zombo]

You can't even be right about your own team....

 

In case you haven't watched, or you don't get it (which is obvious), the problem with Anderson is he simply does not have the mental part of the game down. You love to focus on the 2007 season -- he had great stats. Whoop Dee Doo. The NFL has a long history of one year wonders who had great stats....and his were built up due to an incredibly easy schedule.

 

But when the rubber meets the road, when the pressure ever hit, he cannot rise to the occasion. In fact, he falters. He had the Steelers on the ropes in 07....and the whole second half he choked. He had the opportunity to reach the playoffs that year by beating a mediocre Cincy team....and he choked.

 

You have close to two years on the book of Derek Anderson and you know what you have. It's not going to work.

 

So you let a young guy go out and see what he has. Smart teams don't have quick hooks, they let players work out through difficult times and test what they have. Anderson got his opportunity and didn't make the most of it. If you had any clue, you would get that.

 

But as always, you are clueless.

 

"So you let a young guy go out and see what he has!"

 

Dude, we're not talking about your typical Saturday Night in Schenley Park. I'm saying if the guys sucks for an entire month you gotta give the guy with the big arm and better pro resume that he barely beat out a chance to salvage the season.

 

I'm not surprised you are a pussy about this, you were probably coddling Kordell Stewart into his sixth season too.

 

"You know what you have" when you lose three weeks in a row and your QB turns up three consecutive turds. If that happens, Mangini is going throw Ol' Horse Balls in there and let it fly, I guarantee you.

 

I'm not surprised you are a pussy, but I can't believe how many Browns fans would rather wetnurse a struggling guy who is yet to do anything over pulling the plug for a guy the same age with a bigger arm and a proven ability to lead the team to wins.

 

Either Quinn shows he has the right stuff or we sit him. That's what is going to happen. Not because Zombo says so, but because Mangini isn't a wetnurse pussy like you and your buddy Inspecta.

 

Zombo

[Lumbergh]

Mankock is not married to him

 

Probably but I don't rule that out with Lerner and his history of pulling strings in the background.

 

 

[ballpeen]

Not to hijack my own thread, but is anyone else surprised DA wasn't even mentioned regarding the Delhomme and McNabb situations? I guess Feeley is perceived to be better despite his lack of Pro Bowls and 10-win seasons.

 

Or cheaper, or less cost.

 

Our last game makes DA more valuable to us...the better Brady plays, the more expendable DA becomes. The worse BQ plays, DA becomes more important to the team.

 

It isn't hard to understand.

 

 

 

[gmp]

Bull Phucken Shit.

 

He deserves ... we have to ...

 

No, no, no.

 

He needs to win and prove he deserves to be starting now.

 

Anderson put up 3,700 yards, 29 TDs and 10 wins his first year as a starter.

 

He was a sixth round pick, two training camps, four emergency starts, one year in the system, new offensive coordinator, taking over a team that was 4-13 and going 10-5 with them.

 

There is no good argument that Quinn needs to be babyfed or that we have to endure two more seasons of suckage because for some reason "we have to".

 

I thought Quinn won the job because the coaching staff decided he was better. Right here. Right now. That is what I fully expect. If you are telling me that Quinn is a two-year project that we must suffer with instead of having a better chance of winning games right now with Anderson ... then I am telling you that you are dead wrong.

 

I'm not giving up on Quinn. I'm saying I'm very disappointed and his window of opportunity just shrunk.

 

This was the guy that was the most "NFL-ready" QB prospect of his class. I'm sitting here three years later watching him dink around and play Keystone Kops while the only guy that has given me any hope at the position over the past decade dutifully backs him up.

 

Quinn needs to come out this week, win a football game, take command of the offense and put this shit to bed. It's in his hands.

 

Zombo

 

 

DAT'S WHA i'M TALKIN BOUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...RIGHT ON THE BUTTON!!!!

 

[gmp]

Listen gimp,

All you have ever talked about is your DA love crush,he's on the bench for the year get used to it.

 

 

Luv Crush???

All I'm reading this week on this board is the excuses thrown out there for BQ....and I think it's comical to read every reason as to why BQ didn't look any good on Sunday...OK I'll give him his shot....and I hiope he does win...very soon. but the argument is this...don't come out with this we need to invest years into a young guy....look at Ryan and Flacco., and even Sanchez for that matter... 1st and 2nd year guys with big arms and winning.....you want to say they have a defense...I'm on board with that...they get stops for their QB...this Browns D is pathetic...and the classic bitch slap from AP on that 64 yard run was ridiculous...do you think Palamalu would have gotten that?......So please just stop with the excuses for BQ...he's a grown dude, and should step up right now...if he lay's another egg this week...and I mean a big egg....he should gte a short leach from Mangini....

I'll give your boy his chance,...but I don't have to like seeing passes thrown backwards...???/a true Garo moment...

[Lumbergh]

I wonder how many people who are now making all these cute Garo Yepremian jokes actually had any clue he was a football player before this?

 

"I KEEK A TOUCHDOWN!" -Garo Yepremian

[Zombo]

I wonder how many people who are now making all these cute Garo Yepremian jokes actually had any clue he was a football player before this?

 

I watched the play in the 73 Super Bowl with my Dad and we laughed and laughed and, for a while, whenever someone bungled something up they pulled a "Garo".

 

Charlie Quinn pulled a Garo on Sunday.

 

Right now his career looks like Charlie Frye and that play looked like Garo Yepremian.

 

I'd love for him to look like Tom Brady did in his first year as a starter this week. Hence I will call him Brady Brady instead of Charlie Quinn.

 

I'll settle for an ugly win. Just do something. And not when you are down by three touchdowns.

 

Zombo

--Anderson gets ridiculed for beating up bad teams while Quinn gets praised for his fourth quarter stats when down three scores ... and you wonder how you got to be known as Quinn Fags?

[Zombo]

Have you seen me praise his fourth quarter stats? maybe you wanted to save that little sig line for someone who it actually relates to? Have you read what I have posted in the last two days.

 

Christ way too many posters on here read only the words they type and don't actually understand anything else that is going on.

I didn't realize each post had to be poster specific all the way through. I bet your wife thinks you are too anal.

 

Zombo

--but, yes, I know damn well who Garo Y. is. (related enough?)

[PlaygroundLegend]

Zombo, what im trying to get across is that the Giants did it right, but we have been spoiled lately in this league with the likes of Matt Ryan, Tom Brady, Joe Flacco, and Big Gay Ben that we have lost all of our patience.

 

What im trying to say is that Brady could have a HUGE ceiling, and I'd hate to throw that away because we would like to be impatient and say win not or your on the bench. Thats not a very encouraging environment, thats scary. With that thinking how is Quinn going to perfect his deep ball? He's gonna be afraid to throw it because he'll get benched if its a pick. We must stay the course and develop Quinn, he is our first round Draft pick QB who broke Joe Montana's records in college, Im pretty sure that he can do something in this league if we give hime a chance.

 

Another problem I have with your logic Zombo is that this who offseason period you have failed to see the difference from practice and the game, pre-season and practice dont mean shit. You wanted oone of them to "EARN the job, grab it" but that in my opinion cant happen in practice or pre season games, the only way you can truely see what someone has is during the actual NFL season, because there are players who are quite shitty in practice, that put up big numbers on game day. The only thing you can take from practice is how they do in a simulated repetitive environment, and how hard they work. And if were talkin about work ethic which QB went up and "grabbed it?" The QB that will start for us this sunday

 

Grab some faith and patience and Ill see you at the superbowl 2 years from now with Quinn under center...

[Guest ATENEARS]

I wondered to what degree some of you put on the worth of practice and training camp sessions, I'm starting to see not much.

 

On the other hand, I think there are those of us that noticed that Quinn didn't exactly step up in these practice routines and has been pretty vanila in his limited game experience.

 

Asking someone to wait (years?) on a guy who really hasn't shown much ...err... pizazz(?) at this position and at this level is a bit much, IMO.

 

I my self believe that Anderson has shown ... err .. pizazz. Has he been erratic such as young players often are? Yes. Have I called for him to be replaced at times? Yes.

 

I'd like to see what both have. I wouldn't be against seeing them platoon ... they are so different that it might be a strength and asset.

 

EVERYONE here uses the same arguement about one over the other and that same arguement could be used against your stance. It's a vicious circle.

 

They are both young. Ideally to have both rip up the league would be great. They are in atough position to compete against one another. They are both paid well, unlike DA making league minimum in recent years and being dropped off at work by his wife because they only had one car.

 

They both need to step up. Again, I'm in favor of platooning them and telling them both that they aren't going to lose their job by failing, but if one of them grabs the bull by the horns and becomes a star in the league, that is when the will win the job, not by default.

[MoonlitKnight]

Zombo, what im trying to get across is that the Giants did it right, but we have been spoiled lately in this league with the likes of Matt Ryan, Tom Brady, Joe Flacco, and Big Gay Ben that we have lost all of our patience.

 

What im trying to say is that Brady could have a HUGE ceiling, and I'd hate to throw that away because we would like to be impatient and say win not or your on the bench. Thats not a very encouraging environment, thats scary. With that thinking how is Quinn going to perfect his deep ball? He's gonna be afraid to throw it because he'll get benched if its a pick. We must stay the course and develop Quinn, he is our first round Draft pick QB who broke Joe Montana's records in college, Im pretty sure that he can do something in this league if we give hime a chance.

 

Another problem I have with your logic Zombo is that this who offseason period you have failed to see the difference from practice and the game, pre-season and practice dont mean shit. You wanted oone of them to "EARN the job, grab it" but that in my opinion cant happen in practice or pre season games, the only way you can truely see what someone has is during the actual NFL season, because there are players who are quite shitty in practice, that put up big numbers on game day. The only thing you can take from practice is how they do in a simulated repetitive environment, and how hard they work. And if were talkin about work ethic which QB went up and "grabbed it?" The QB that will start for us this sunday

 

Grab some faith and patience and Ill see you at the superbowl 2 years from now with Quinn under center...

wow....see you at the superbowl with quinn under center? Broke Montana's records in college? As far as the record breaking in college goes...to quote Han Solo.."good against remotes is one thing...good against the living is something else". I'd rather wager on weather Quinn is even in the league 3 years from now..he might be..Frye still is..your loyalty and faith are admirable..but you are kidding yourself,Quinn DOESN'T have it...give him 2 years or 200 to develop, he doesn't have it..he is what he is..a system qb with a spaghetti arm who reached his football pinnacle in college...and is now on the slippery slope to obscurity...one day he will only be known as AJ Hawks bro in law.