Guest Masters Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 wow....see you at the superbowl with quinn under center? Broke Montana's records in college? As far as the record breaking in college goes...to quote Han Solo.."good against remotes is one thing...good against the living is something else". I'd rather wager on weather Quinn is even in the league 3 years from now..he might be..Frye still is..your loyalty and faith are admirable..but you are kidding yourself,Quinn DOESN'T have it...give him 2 years or 200 to develop, he doesn't have it..he is what he is..a system qb with a spaghetti arm who reached his football pinnacle in college...and is now on the slippery slope to obscurity...one day he will only be known as AJ Hawks bro in law. And you can say just about the same thing about DA (minus the arm comment). So in a nut shell, CLE has no QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osusev Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 What im trying to say is that Brady could have a HUGE ceiling, and I'd hate to throw that away because we would like to be impatient and say win not or your on the bench. Thats not a very encouraging environment, thats scary. With that thinking how is Quinn going to perfect his deep ball? He's gonna be afraid to throw it because he'll get benched if its a pick. We must stay the course and develop Quinn, he is our first round Draft pick QB who broke Joe Montana's records in college, Im pretty sure that he can do something in this league if we give hime a chance. play ground you are really not serious about this line of reasoning are you? College records? DA is not exactly low on the totem pole of college records either... and quite a few others who have never seen the light of a NFL game..... the ND of Quinn era is not the same ND in Montana's era by a nautical mile....... Brady has a ceiling like Chad Pennington and other low arm strength efficient/smart qbs.... that is completely possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Zombo, what im trying to get across is that the Giants did it right, but we have been spoiled lately in this league with the likes of Matt Ryan, Tom Brady, Joe Flacco, and Big Gay Ben that we have lost all of our patience. What im trying to say is that Brady could have a HUGE ceiling, and I'd hate to throw that away because we would like to be impatient and say win not or your on the bench. Thats not a very encouraging environment, thats scary. With that thinking how is Quinn going to perfect his deep ball? He's gonna be afraid to throw it because he'll get benched if its a pick. We must stay the course and develop Quinn, he is our first round Draft pick QB who broke Joe Montana's records in college, Im pretty sure that he can do something in this league if we give hime a chance. Another problem I have with your logic Zombo is that this who offseason period you have failed to see the difference from practice and the game, pre-season and practice dont mean shit. You wanted oone of them to "EARN the job, grab it" but that in my opinion cant happen in practice or pre season games, the only way you can truely see what someone has is during the actual NFL season, because there are players who are quite shitty in practice, that put up big numbers on game day. The only thing you can take from practice is how they do in a simulated repetitive environment, and how hard they work. And if were talkin about work ethic which QB went up and "grabbed it?" The QB that will start for us this sunday Grab some faith and patience and Ill see you at the superbowl 2 years from now with Quinn under center... We've all seen things in Quinn we like, and we'd all like to see him find greatness with the Browns. The part where I differ with most, is that I have a lot of respect for Derek Anderson whereas the majority of fans have given up on him. I see a guy with actually a higher potential upside than Quinn, I see a guy that had no chance to suceed in 2008, I see a guy that is 25 with some nice starting experience and a gun ... so I'm not going to let Quinn flop around like a newborn baby his third year in the league while this guy is on the bench. I don't expect Quinn to continue playing poorly for three weeks .. but if he does, I think Mangini pulls him and tries to salvage the season with Anderson. That's just how I feel. I know some want to keep thinking of Quinn as a shiney new christmas present with all the potential in the world who just needs nurtured and lots of time ... but right now I think of him as a guy holding the team back as long as he plays like he did Sunday. Anderson simply is not as bad, or a worthless cause, like most seem to think. He's a good QB who Mangini will have no problem turning to early in the season if the Keystone Kop dink and dunk show continues much longer. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonlitKnight Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 And you can say just about the same thing about DA (minus the arm comment). So in a nut shell, CLE has no QB. do you see me pimping DA?noooo...but in the choice between two evils Id rather have a strong armed bum than a weak armed bum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 ^ i can agree there....lets just be sure he is a weak-armed bum... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 I remember Bill Parcels saying that Tom Landry once told him that in a QB's first year you give him the benefit of the doubt. The second year he has to show you something. And in the third year you know whether or not you need to get a new QB. It is Quinn's third year, but first year starting. I think he has to show us something...an upward arc of progress. The problem I had with DA was his regression. He did not get any better with time which leads me to believe he will never get to the level that this team needs. I could be wrong...or not. Either way, we need to see if Quinn can progress this season. If his play doesn't improve dramatically (compared to last Sunday) by the end of the season, we are going to have to start looking at other alternatives at QB. I hope that is not the case simply because I do not want to start the process over again. I am not a Notre Dame fan. I have no loyalty to a QB whether they are from OH or from the Pacific Northwest. I only care that they produce...and that they beat the goddam Steelers for once. The Bills just lost their 12th straight to the Patriots last night (although they screwed themselves...but I digress). I don't want our beloved Browns to join them in that statistic...losing for the 12th straight time to the steelers...just typing that pisses me off! I want to watch the Browns and have fun watching...like the first half against the Vikings. Is this too much to ask? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 I remember Bill Parcels saying that Tom Landry once told him that in a QB's first year you give him the benefit of the doubt. The second year he has to show you something. And in the third year you know whether or not you need to get a new QB. It is Quinn's third year, but first year starting. I think he has to show us something...an upward arc of progress. The problem I had with DA was his regression. He did not get any better with time which leads me to believe he will never get to the level that this team needs. I could be wrong...or not. Either way, we need to see if Quinn can progress this season. If his play doesn't improve dramatically (compared to last Sunday) by the end of the season, we are going to have to start looking at other alternatives at QB. I hope that is not the case simply because I do not want to start the process over again. I am not a Notre Dame fan. I have no loyalty to a QB whether they are from OH or from the Pacific Northwest. I only care that they produce...and that they beat the goddam Steelers for once. The Bills just lost their 12th straight to the Patriots last night (although they screwed themselves...but I digress). I don't want our beloved Browns to join them in that statistic...losing for the 12th straight time to the steelers...just typing that pisses me off! I want to watch the Browns and have fun watching...like the first half against the Vikings. Is this too much to ask? That is a good way of putting it. I would say that Quinn has to be viewed somewhere around the way DA was viewed near the end of the 2007 season and the first few games of the 2008 season. Basically Quinn's start Sunday equals DA's start #8 in 2007, as far as the ground zero for the "second year he has to show you something" idea. Quinn isn't equal to a rookie QB in the NFL, but closer to being a guy who had a rookie year playing at this point, from a judging point imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkandstoopid Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Peyton Manning 9/06/98 vs MIA L 15-24 Comp: 21 Attmpt:37 Rating: 56.8 9/13/98 @ NE L 6-29 Comp: 21 Attmpt: 33 Rating: 63.6 9/20/98 @ NYJ L 6-44 Comp: 20 Attmpt: 44 Rating: 45.5 9/27/98 NO L 13-19 Comp: 19 Attmpt: 32 Rating: 59.4 Totals for first 4 games 10 points per game 40 total points in 4 games 4 losses Rating: 56.3 Eli Manning 9/12/04 @ PHI L 17-31 Comp: 3 Attmpt: 9 Rating: 60.4 11/21/04 ATL L 10-14 Comp: 17 Attmp: 37 Rating: 45.1 11/28/04 PHI L 6-27 Comp: 6 Attmp: 21 Rating: 16.9 12/05/04 @ WAS L 7-31 Comp: 12 Attmpt: 25 Rating: 60.9 Totals for first 4 games 10 points per game 40 total points in 4 games 4 losses Rating: 45.8 Brady Quinn 11/06/08 DEN L 30-34 Comp: 22 Attmpt: 35 Rating: 104.3 11/17/08 @ BUF W 29-27 Comp: 14 Attmpt: 36 Rating: 55.9 11/23/08 HOU L 6-16 Comp: 8 Attmpt: 18 Rating: 21.3 09/13/08 MIN L 20-34 Comp: 21 Attmpt: 35 Rating: 74.1 Totals for first 4 games 21.5 points per game 85 total points in 4 games 1 win and 3 losses Rating: 63.8 Point of story, even Super Bowl QB's are given a chance to get comfortable. I'm still hoping for great things from Quinn. His reputation is better leadership and less turn overs than he displayed on Sunday. The only thing for this team to do at this point is get behind him 100%. Chin up mates, let's see how this story unfolds. N.B. Anybody else watch JaMarcus last night? With over a year's experience, "appropriately" drafted higher than Quinn according to draft experts, and a full off season of snaps, he lays an egg with a QB rating of 45 last night. I wonder what Raider nation is saying. This is one really weird or stupid thread.... 4 games, 56.3 rating = needs a long leash to get career off to a start 4 games, 45.8 rating = needs a long leash to get career off to a start 4 games, 63.8 rating = needs a long leash to get career off to a start 4 games, 78.8 rating = needs a tight leash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greythan Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Z, I'm not sure why you see such upside in a guy with nearly 30 NFL starts who shows the same, chronic problems that have plagued him since college. Its seems far more likely that the limitations create a capped ceiling versus a high one. DA simply has to excel as a pocket QB. He is a handicap in terms of his athleticism. He doesn't move well either in or out of the pocket. So, as a pocket passer he must be accurate and must make good decisions. These are both areas where we've seen little growth. Regardless of where Quinn's ceiling ends up, I'm not one that thinks further investment in DA is a high probability bet. I'm confused why you would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonlitKnight Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 I remember Bill Parcels saying that Tom Landry once told him that in a QB's first year you give him the benefit of the doubt. The second year he has to show you something. And in the third year you know whether or not you need to get a new QB. It is Quinn's third year, but first year starting. I think he has to show us something...an upward arc of progress. The problem I had with DA was his regression. He did not get any better with time which leads me to believe he will never get to the level that this team needs. I could be wrong...or not. Either way, we need to see if Quinn can progress this season. If his play doesn't improve dramatically (compared to last Sunday) by the end of the season, we are going to have to start looking at other alternatives at QB. I hope that is not the case simply because I do not want to start the process over again. I am not a Notre Dame fan. I have no loyalty to a QB whether they are from OH or from the Pacific Northwest. I only care that they produce...and that they beat the goddam Steelers for once. The Bills just lost their 12th straight to the Patriots last night (although they screwed themselves...but I digress). I don't want our beloved Browns to join them in that statistic...losing for the 12th straight time to the steelers...just typing that pisses me off! I want to watch the Browns and have fun watching...like the first half against the Vikings. Is this too much to ask? I am with ya there....watching the Browns is almost like being a cutter,one of those disturbed people who cut themselves, it always seems to be painful.I am so glad I play fantasy football so some of my homerism gets diluted by having my own teams to think about. I love the Browns but sometimes I'd rather go fishing than watch them lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffer X Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 DA could get it together, it is possible. The guy can certainly throw the ball. I just don't have time to wait on him. I think he is going to be one of those guys that finally starts figuring out the game after a few more years in the league. It's not going to happen any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OconRecon Posted September 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Quinn? well there's historical basis to show he COULD get better, will he? Who knows? Does he need to show he is moving in that direction very soon? Yes... The good news about the Viking game is it felt more like jitters to me more than anything else. At this point, it didn't seem like there were fatal and irreversible flaws. Take away the misread on the INT, the false starts by the new offense, and Braylon's TD catch coming from out of bounds and we'd be talking about how Quinn had a solid game with a QB rating in the 100's. These are things that can be improved upon easily and quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffer X Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 The good news about the Viking game is it felt more like jitters to me more than anything else. At this point, it didn't seem like there were fatal and irreversible flaws. Take away the misread on the INT, the false starts by the new offense, and Braylon's TD catch coming from out of bounds and we'd be talking about how Quinn had a solid game with a QB rating in the 100's. These are things that can be improved upon easily and quickly. BQ has a TD called back on a throw where haters are trying to say wasn't even a good throw. Then, they go WildDawg and don't score. TD to Quinn. On the pick it was straight miscommunication. It is arguable who made the inappropriate read, although Braylons took credit for it. Wipe the pick off. He very easily could have had a 22-36 game with 2 TD's, 250yds and no picks. Granted, the late TD was dressing but it was hugely needed to get the monkey off their backs. Those aren't that bad of stats, and maybe Braylons catches the one go route if he runs the right route. What that translates out ot in QBR I don't know, but probably well above 100. On the Garo, DA never gets the opportunity to do something that goofy because he would have been sacked or chucked up a possible pick beforehand. Point being, Quinn did not play well and seemed reluctant to take more shots, but he was also feeling quite a bit of pressure, going up against a top defense, playing his first home start after being named full time starter and with a whole new staff and tons of different personnel. He was not as bad as he is being made out to be. Give the kid a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ATENEARS Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 BQ has a TD called back on a throw where haters are trying to say wasn't even a good throw. Then, they go WildDawg and don't score. TD to Quinn. On the pick it was straight miscommunication. It is arguable who made the inappropriate read, although Braylons took credit for it. Wipe the pick off. He very easily could have had a 22-36 game with 2 TD's, 250yds and no picks. Granted, the late TD was dressing but it was hugely needed to get the monkey off their backs. Those aren't that bad of stats, and maybe Braylons catches the one go route if he runs the right route. What that translates out ot in QBR I don't know, but probably well above 100. On the Garo, DA never gets the opportunity to do something that goofy because he would have been sacked or chucked up a possible pick beforehand. Point being, Quinn did not play well and seemed reluctant to take more shots, but he was also feeling quite a bit of pressure, going up against a top defense, playing his first home start after being named full time starter and with a whole new staff and tons of different personnel. He was not as bad as he is being made out to be. Give the kid a chance. Wow ... ubber gay. Sticky gay, limp wrist, apologetic post right there. Yikes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AdaM Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Stan, who's that lobster in your avatar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffer X Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Wow ... ubber gay. Sticky gay, limp wrist, apologetic post right there. Yikes Jeezus cheeayriste, get the gay off your mind. You overreact to everything, that's the fooking gay part. "Oh my God, these two QB's are the worst I've ever seen" after two minutes at camp. "Oh my god, Queen is the worst starting QB I have ever seen" after one half against Vikes. You are the queer drama queen pal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 We've all seen things in Quinn we like, and we'd all like to see him find greatness with the Browns. The part where I differ with most, is that I have a lot of respect for Derek Anderson whereas the majority of fans have given up on him. I see a guy with actually a higher potential upside than Quinn, I see a guy that had no chance to suceed in 2008, I see a guy that is 25 with some nice starting experience and a gun ... so I'm not going to let Quinn flop around like a newborn baby his third year in the league while this guy is on the bench. I don't expect Quinn to continue playing poorly for three weeks .. but if he does, I think Mangini pulls him and tries to salvage the season with Anderson. That's just how I feel. I know some want to keep thinking of Quinn as a shiney new christmas present with all the potential in the world who just needs nurtured and lots of time ... but right now I think of him as a guy holding the team back as long as he plays like he did Sunday. Anderson simply is not as bad, or a worthless cause, like most seem to think. He's a good QB who Mangini will have no problem turning to early in the season if the Keystone Kop dink and dunk show continues much longer. Zombo While this post is a little less of the rant from yestyerday i can see why you feel like you do. The point remains that whether BQ or DA is the starter there are alot of other holes on this team which will hamper their development. I don't see this team being a 10 game winner this year with either QB, that being said its still only week 1. I truly think it will be blatantly obvious whether or not BQ has 'it'. If he doesn't you know exactl;y what you have in DA. Giving you the option to focus on the other glaring shortcomings of the team. I don't feel we need to draft a qb next year, would rather see them continue the foundation first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OconRecon Posted September 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 I for one am not going to get into the "if only"'s, because you could do that for almost everyone of DA's games too. I believe we got beat by a superior team. And it wasn't as bad as some want to make it look. But it has to get better before the end of this season, or I'll be real concerned. and again. I've stated before. I don't necessarily believe Quinn has to have a season like DA did in 2007 to be consider as improving and progressing. And wins are not the only measuring stick. I'd say that last years Denver game was an example of a good game by Quinn. Every football game turns on a few plays for sure. Braylon's play was part of football, but the false starts can be easily corrected and Quinn should become more comfortable and make better reads. I'm definitely not saying "if, if, if, therefore Quinn is great and the Browns should have won". Just saying there's hope for quick corrections. The next game will bring new problems, as does every football game, and the Browns have to overcome them to get wins. If he has another fluke fumble and we have a bunch of pre-snap motion penalties again, well then that's crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ATENEARS Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Jeezus cheeayriste, get the gay off your mind. You overreact to everything, that's the fooking gay part. I wish I could, but I haven't seen this many homosexual posters on a Browns forum since 1998-99 while discussing Tim Couch and his Kentucky popgun. Do you really feel good about that excuse filled post? Crosss the tee, dot the i, carry the one, and he was over 100 QB rating. Subtract three scores from the Vikings and we Won! Good God, wash your hands after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffer X Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 And the oscar goes to...... Why Erty of course. Think I may start working on my Satn imitations, da ich stuff be gettin old or sumtin............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ATENEARS Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Stan, who's that lobster in your avatar? What you can't see, just out of the picture, is that the girl on my immediate left had a hold of my cock so hard that I thought I was gonna lose consciousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisky fringo Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 The good news about the Viking game is it felt more like jitters to me more than anything else. At this point, it didn't seem like there were fatal and irreversible flaws. Take away the misread on the INT, the false starts by the new offense, and Braylon's TD catch coming from out of bounds and we'd be talking about how Quinn had a solid game with a QB rating in the 100's. These are things that can be improved upon easily and quickly. don't forget the ball magically fumbling out of his grasp in the 4th resulting in that fumble. that was some ridiculous folly material there, and i sincerely HOPE it was just jitters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 don't forget the ball magically fumbling out of his grasp in the 4th resulting in that fumble. that was some ridiculous folly material there, and i sincerely HOPE it was just jitters. It is a silly folly. But we saw that same folly last year from Jay Cutler against SD, and numerous time by other legit QBs. Jitters or no jitters, those things happen to QBs at any level. It happened to be Quinn that it happened to last Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisky fringo Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 just wanted to include it since i hadn't seen it mentioned anywhere and it resulted in a change of possession=big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 he had sweaty palms sisky....ya know, it was such a hot day running around with all those pads on. i mean, its not like 32 QB's suit up every sunday for 16 weeks straight and we dont see that folly every game..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Z, Regardless of where Quinn's ceiling ends up, I'm not one that thinks further investment in DA is a high probability bet. I'm confused why you would. It's because your analysis of Anderson is piss poor. If he was as unathletic as you guys wanted him to be he would be working on a farm in oregon not winning NFL games and playing in a Pro Bowl. He moves much better than any of you Quinn fags ever give him credit for, he releases the ball quicker and smoother than just about any QB I have ever seen, he delivers downfield passes on a laser that just don't get delivered by other QBS, and the fact of the matter is that this team scores more points, gathers more yards, and wins more football games when Derek Anderson is under center than any other guy that has played the position for 15 years, so if you think he'll never learn to hit a short route consistently, that's one thing ... but just about everything else the Quinnies come up with about Anderson is a heaping plate of horseshit. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegasdogg Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 and the fact of the matter is that this team scores more points, gathers more yards, and wins more football games when Derek Anderson is under center than any other guy that has played the position for 15 years, Oh gimme a break. In the 9 games he started in 2008 he avg'd 140 yards passing in 6 of them. He didn't have the support from a defense that a Flacco did, but then again neither did the other rookie Ryan. Holy shit how many excuses are you going to come up with? When you AVG 20 turnovers per 16 games as a starting QB in the NFL, you're not scoring many points. When you pass for 140 yards on avg, you're not scoring many points. And regarding his 10 win pro-bowl season: somehow the fooking Browns dropped the ball and forgot to send the memo to opposing defensive coordinators "hey, this guy made the pro-bowl so how about not taking away his strengths." Same old same old from the Anderson crowd. How many pro-bowls has Quinn been to? Maybe you're you afraid to find out........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 OK Zombo then find me the QB who had one good season early in his career, and then followed it up with one horrible one, and then ever came back to be anything more than a journeyman back up. I've looked, he's not out there. Drew Brees comes to mind without doing a lick of reasearch ... but I will be glad to when I get time, obviously you are not good at it. I understand, he's the only guy to give you excitement in the last 15 years. but let me ask you, did you marry the first girl that had sex with you? No, because she was already married to your Dad. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Oh gimme a break. In the 9 games he started in 2008 he avg'd 140 yards passing in 6 of them. You guys really have to let go of 2008. Flugels parades around the scores of the first three or four games like they are the end-all argument of how DA sucks ... but he played without his #2, #3, and #4 receivers, his Pro Bowl tight end, and his right tackle ...while recovering form a concussion that put him out of the preseason, while his #1 recovered from a foot injury and dropped a home run in every one of those early games. I'm willing to lok at the facts and circumstances of both quarterbacks. You guys give Quinn every excuse in the world while not giving Anderson any ... that is what makes you Quinn Fags. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riceloft Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Actually Brees had two pretty bad years before his first good year. Unless you consider 3200 yards, 17TD and 16INT a good year of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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