Ocker brings it

[JohnG71097]

It's a good read, this is the closing 2 paragraph's.

Talks about Hart Vs Shapiro for example, Economics etc Link Below

 

 

 

The Dolans said when they bought the Indians that they intended to preside over several World Series championships. Recently, they blamed the Northeast Ohio economy for keeping them from reaching their goal.

 

But if they look across the street at Quicken Loans Arena, they will see that the economy is booming. So near and yet so far.

 

http://www.ohio.com/sports/61934177.html

[CIMO.]

It's a fair argument, and Gilbert obviously seems more willing to spend what it takes to win...I still wouldn't really look at the Cavs as any kind of model franchise. The Cavs lucked into getting the most dominant player in the sport, and it's a sport that happens to have a $50M(ish) salary cap and a sport where one or two great players can carry a team. The Cavs still haven't found a sidekick for LeBron and still have zero banners.

 

Big Z was drafted in 1996, other than Mo (taking advantage of a team hemorrhaging money in the Bucks), how many impact players have the Cavs acquired since then? We got unbelievably lucky getting the #1 pick in a year with maybe the biggest no-brainer #1 player in history. Besides that, the past 15 years+ have been pretty abysmal.

 

It comes down to putting your money where your mouth is, and I would definitely take Gilbert over Dolan as an owner, but it's unrealistic to think we can afford to keep up with the big boys (NY, Boston, etc).

 

So...my idea to save baseball. Don't institute a team salary cap. Keep your biggest money makers happy and let them spend what they want. But put a cap on individual players' salaries. That way a team like the Tribe can keep their 3 or 4 best players, while the Yankees and Red Sox are free to get their all-stars at all 9 positions, 5-deep in the rotation and 7 bullpen guys. If the max deal was 6 years, $15M/per or so, I'm sure CC would still be here. If CC were still here, we'd probably still be winning and Lee and Vic would still be here.

 

Losing elite players (like CC) leads to losing games, which leads to weak attendance, which leads to cutting payroll, which leads to losing more players.

 

 

It sucks that this year was the end of an (unfulfilling) era. But in today's MLB, we can't sign CC. We can't afford to give Vic market value with his age/durability, Hafner at DH and Santana in waiting. I've always said that the Tribe doesn't deserve all the blame....baseball does. It just so happens that everything came crashing down on us in a one-year span so we're the butt of all the jokes.

 

I think it's time that Dolan and Shapiro stop getting a free pass from people like me, but at the same time, I can't call the duo "bad". The Clippers are bad. The Pirates are bad. The Browns are bad. The Indians are mediocre at worst.

[Beanpot]

I still wouldn't really look at the Cavs as any kind of model franchise. The Cavs lucked into getting the most dominant player in the sport, and it's a sport that happens to have a $50M(ish) salary cap and a sport where one or two great players can carry a team.

 

That. I've read a few local columns that have tried to compare the Cavs to the Tribe and it's all kinds of silly. There is nothing about the Cavs that is in any way a model for a franchise to follow. Unless they're keen on the idea of sucking hard enough to put themselves into a position to draft a once in a lifetime type player. You don't plan for that kind of thing three years out.

 

So...my idea to save baseball. Don't institute a team salary cap. Keep your biggest money makers happy and let them spend what they want. But put a cap on individual players' salaries.

 

I like it (wait, baseball is thriving, wahtcha mean by the need to save it?) but the second biggest money makers (the players) would never go for it.

 

I've always said that the Tribe doesn't deserve all the blame....baseball does. It just so happens that everything came crashing down on us in a one-year span so we're the butt of all the jokes.

 

Huh. I'm with you on inequities and all that but I place much of the blame squarely on the organization. Much more than the game.

 

I think it's time that Dolan and Shapiro stop getting a free pass from people like me, but at the same time, I can't call the duo "bad". The Clippers are bad. The Pirates are bad. The Browns are bad. The Indians are mediocre at worst.

 

I'll raise you and say they're mediocre at best. Not bad, certainly competitive, but they're clearly not a pennant contender as currently constructed. I've been a Shapiro apologist for several years and the bloom is off that rose. It hasn't withered completely but the allure is long gone.

 

Beanpot

 

[CIMO.]

Huh. I'm with you on inequities and all that but I place much of the blame squarely on the organization. Much more than the game.

 

 

 

I'll raise you and say they're mediocre at best. Not bad, certainly competitive, but they're clearly not a pennant contender as currently constructed. I've been a Shapiro apologist for several years and the bloom is off that rose. It hasn't withered completely but the allure is long gone.

 

Beanpot

 

Could be. I just think the way baseball's set up, it's impossible for the smaller markets to sustain success. Look at the Rays, who people were calling one of the best organizations in sports just earlier this year. They're buried in the standings behind NY and Boston, had to pawn off Kazmir, will probably lose Crawford (or someone like Upton if they keep him), and they look pretty hopeless behind the big two. The national media loves Minnesota, but you saw them having to get rid of Santana and Hunter. Now I know they're getting carried by Mauer and (until the injury) Morneau, but they don't have (and can't afford) the starting pitching to do any real damage. The A's were the chic team for a while and are already back in the gutter. It's just unrealistic to me to expect consistent 85-90+ win seasons from any smaller market team.

 

Shapiro's definitely done his share of bad moves and non-moves. If he could've put together a halfway decent bullpen last year/early this year we'd probably be looking pretty good. The Hafner and Wood signings are crippling. We still haven't seen any of his top draft picks make an impact. But the combination of Shapiro's good side (see: Sizemore, Choo, Cabrera, Perez, Sipp, etc, and one of the best farm systems in baseball)...with Dolan's still un-noticed willingness to spend money when the time is right (see: Hafner, Wood, Westbrook, etc)...outweighs the slip ups.

 

 

 

The one....ok, one of the many....bad things about this season though. We're in a pretty tight battle for one of the top draft picks, and of course I have no idea who's who at the top of next year's draft. I guess that phenom catcher is coming out? What a waste if somehow we have a shot at him. Hopefully something good comes out of it.

[Guest Masters]

But the combination of Shapiro's good side (see: Sizemore, Choo, Cabrera, Perez, Sipp, etc, and one of the best farm systems in baseball)...

 

I am not quite sure CLE has one of the best farm systems in baseball anymore. That was once the case. But when most of your top prospects are from other organizations, your farm system isn't that good.