When is Jimmy gonna make a real change?

[Icecube]

They need a real change. A serious, real change.

[VaporTrail]

After Watson's contract expires. They will have a fire sale next year's trade deadline and go all in for Arch. 

[Bob806]

The only real change is he needs to do four things:

- rip up the organizational model, where he is actively involved

- release DePodesta

- let Berry & Stefanski do their jobs

- step back & give it another season, through 2025

 

[syd]

 

[Orion]

So, here's what's happened:

Stefanski came to us and gave us a sane, professional persona for our HC position.  This is something that we hadn't had in years.  He becomes coach of the year.  They orchestrate a big bold QB trade to give Stefanski the best QB they could.  Unfortunately, for 3 straight seasons, the QB is either suspended or injured and unavailable for the bulk of the season.  In one of those years the HC got his second Coach of the Year award for losing the starting QB and having to win games with 2 bums as QB's before Flacco came along to help the team again reach the playoffs...even though they were starting their # 5 & 6 offensive tackles.  THEN, THIS year, with the starting offensive tackles STILL out, the OL struggled...and then Wyatt Teller went down...and the OL couldn't protect the passer (leading the league in sacks allowed} or give a RB anywhere to run.  AND THEN the starting QB went down for the year again.  And then the starting 1st round pick LT came back...but got benched a couple of games later because, well, he's not too good.  A 1st round pick not being too good.  It happens.  To every team.

That's what's happened...and here we are.

So what is the 'Real Change' that's required?  

 

 

[Browns149]

52 minutes ago, Orion said:

So, here's what's happened:

Stefanski came to us and gave us a sane, professional persona for our HC position.  This is something that we hadn't had in years.  He becomes coach of the year.  They orchestrate a big bold QB trade to give Stefanski the best QB they could.  Unfortunately, for 3 straight seasons, the QB is either suspended or injured and unavailable for the bulk of the season.  In one of those years the HC got his second Coach of the Year award for losing the starting QB and having to win games with 2 bums as QB's before Flacco came along to help the team again reach the playoffs...even though they were starting their # 5 & 6 offensive tackles.  THEN, THIS year, with the starting offensive tackles STILL out, the OL struggled...and then Wyatt Teller went down...and the OL couldn't protect the passer (leading the league in sacks allowed} or give a RB anywhere to run.  AND THEN the starting QB went down for the year again.  And then the starting 1st round pick LT came back...but got benched a couple of games later because, well, he's not too good.  A 1st round pick not being too good.  It happens.  To every team.

That's what's happened...and here we are.

So what is the 'Real Change' that's required?  

 

 

The REAL change is move Depo to the Haslem sports group and AWAY from the football operations. 
Depo has been the chief strategist officer for over 8  years. In those years we have sucked for about 6 of those years. Time to move on JIMMY

[AP1]

13 hours ago, Orion said:

And then the starting 1st round pick LT came back...but got benched a couple of games later because, well, he's not too good.

I thought it was a "business decision" on the part of the LT....

[Canton Dawg]

1) Fire Depodesta, if he brings value to the organization…I don’t see it.

2) Relegate Andrew Berry to salary cap space and renegotiating contracts, that seems to be his strengths.

3) Hire a competent GM that can evaluate NFL prospects.

5) Stefanski has slowly improved, and I feel if he’s fired he will end up as a HC elsewhere. Keep him another year or two.

6) In a nutshell, the flaws of the Browns organization falls heavily on the FO.

7) Too bad we can’t fire Haslam.

[Orion]

10 hours ago, AP1 said:

I thought it was a "business decision" on the part of the LT....

Correct.  But he's not too good.  He gives the minimum effort on the field.  He blocks for 3.5 seconds and then his job is done...is the way he sees it.  It's just business.

[Dutch Oven]

11 hours ago, Orion said:

Correct.  But he's not too good.  He gives the minimum effort on the field.  He blocks for 3.5 seconds and then his job is done...is the way he sees it.  It's just business.

Wills is not a good player, but you have to know that 3.5 seconds is an eternity regarding blocking most plays. 

[Vambo]

Browns Coach Now Most Likely to Be Fired Next After Latest NFL News

Browns Coach Now Most Likely to Be Fired Next After Latest NFL News (factoryofsadness.co)

 

As the 2024 season starts to slip away from some struggling teams, seats are only getting hotter around the league for coaches who aren't performing up to standards. This predicament led to another midseason firing on Tuesday, as the Chicago Bears decided to axe offensive coordinator Shane Waldron, who called plays for one of the worst units in the entire NFL.

With one less offensive coordinator now employed, that moves fellow disappointing OCs up the list of those likely to be axed next as leashes start to get shorter and shorter.

That reality could very well mean Cleveland Browns coordinator Ken Dorsey is next up on the chopping block.

 

The Browns entered the Week 10 bye as one of the worst offenses in the league, ranking in the bottom five across nearly a dozen major categories.

Those standings haven't improved, either, now that Cleveland is back from its time off. Dorsey's unit checks in at No. 29 points, No. 31 in yards per game, No. 31 in rushing touchdowns (once a staple for this group) and dead-last in net yards per pass attempt.

This year has been an undeniable disaster for this offense, and that weight falls primarily on Dorsey's shoulders. Though his quarterback situation wasn't ideal with Deshaun Watson, the Browns were still competitive with the lesser-talented Jacoby Brissett running the show for most of the 2022 campaign, and with an off-the-couch Joe Flacco to end the 2023 season.

Yet, Cleveland was a disaster with its hand-picked QB under center to start of this year. That's after making a big trade for wide receiver Jerry Jeudy in the offseason, too, which gave Dorsey a legit secondary receiver to utilize that this offense lacked before.

Yes, Nick Chubb's absence for the first half of the year has played a role in the team's lacking ground production as well. But the Browns' offensive line has experienced a major regression that a better coach would've helped fix before it grew into a glaring issue, which could've aided the backfield in the meantime.

So far, Dorsey has shown zero redeeming qualities as an OC, nor has he made a case to be worth sticking around past the end of this year. Assuming those trends continue, all it takes is one more huge disaster of a game to possibly end his Cleveland tenure.

In other Browns news:

•

Browns Legend Roasts Jedrick Wills for Ridiculous 'Business Decision' Comment

•

Former Browns Specialist Joins AFC North Rival Ahead of Week 11

•

Disliked Browns Vet Just Confirmed He’s Not Coming Back in 2025

•

Za'Darius Smith Explains Controversial Tweet After Trade From Browns

[Orion]

4 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

you have to know that 3.5 seconds is an eternity regarding blocking most plays. 

Yes, but if the play goes on longer than that, Wills no longer participates.  If a scrambling QB happens to head back Wills' way, he's on his own.  Wills is a spectator at that point.  He ain't workin' overtime on each and every play.

[Canton Dawg]

This guy can’t leave Cleveland fast enough. . .

 

[Kvoethe]

Change as in sell the team??

[Flugel]

On 11/13/2024 at 12:17 PM, Canton Dawg said:

This guy can’t leave Cleveland fast enough. . .

 

Wills has a very empty inner chest.  And let's not pretend if he just played RT all that would go away.  When we do run the ball his way - he makes an initial hit and quits.  If he wants exhibit some degree of energy - he'll hold.  In pass pro on the edge of the blind side protection - it's scary how often he whiffs on initial contact. This isn't a driven or motivated football player.  

Last year, an unemployed FA LT Geron Christian - came here and significantly upgraded the pass pro on the blind side. He was quietly a factor during our playoff run. It's amazing how much it changes when a guy at such an important position is willing to break a sweat for the team paying his salary.  Even this year, Dawand Jones has significantly upgraded the position while he's been trying to get himself back into playing shape.  The common denominator of upgrade here?  Effort...

[Canton Dawg]

4 hours ago, Flugel said:

Wills has a very empty inner chest.  And let's not pretend if he just played RT all that would go away.  When we do run the ball his way - he makes an initial hit and quits.  If he wants exhibit some degree of energy - he'll hold.  In pass pro on the edge of the blind side protection - it's scary how often he whiffs on initial contact. This isn't a driven or motivated football player.  

Last year, an unemployed FA LT Geron Christian - came here and significantly upgraded the pass pro on the blind side. He was quietly a factor during our playoff run. It's amazing how much it changes when a guy at such an important position is willing to break a sweat for the team paying his salary.  Even this year, Dawand Jones has significantly upgraded the position while he's been trying to get himself back into playing shape.  The common denominator of upgrade here?  Effort...

You would think that lack of effort would be a big red flag, but I think the guys in the FO that drafted him don’t want to look bad.

I think they need to swallow their pride, and let this guy go.

[BrownPile]

On 11/11/2024 at 1:32 PM, Icecube said:

They need a real change. A serious, real change.

The Haslams HAVE made a change -  a real change.  They bought all the land and are moving to Brookpark.

So, if you want to park - you pay the Haslams;  If you want to eat - it's at their restaurants or those that pay them their 'property tax'.  If you want to stay in a hotel, you'll stay in theirs or those that pay the Haslam property tax.  If you want to gamble, it's at Casino Haslam or those who pay the tax.  If you want to lay your own brown pile, you'll tap your credit card at the nearest Haslam super bowl.

Oh, at some point they'll have to keep some semblance of a football team on the field to keep the cash rolling in.  Or do they?  We keep buying the tickets and everything else when they were 1-15 and 0-16, so....

 

[Flugel]

On 11/15/2024 at 1:01 PM, Canton Dawg said:

You would think that lack of effort would be a big red flag, but I think the guys in the FO that drafted him don’t want to look bad.

I think they need to swallow their pride, and let this guy go.

You couldn't have said it any better than that CD!  Just gonna piggy back onto your points a little here. Just think if they reached any further up than they already did on Anthony Schwartz - he'd still be here too!  I could just hear it now from the FO: "he's really improving out there - he DID catch 2 of the 7 targets that hit his hands today." We're gonna require some imagination here.  Let's pretend they went out and got the right 230 million dollar QB - what type of FO repeatedly sees the lack of effort from Wills and concludes he's the perfect blind side protector/insurance plan for their investment? Sometimes I wonder how much say the FO had in determining what players started/played most over the coaching staff here even inclusive of well respected OL Coach Bill Callahan.  I have a feeling this FO forced their Will(s) on Callahan.  As fate would have it, an injury leading to IR finally allowed Wills to be replaced and noticeably upgraded by Geron Christian.  In this case, noticeably meant the frequency of watching replays of what went wrong on the blind side was reduced significantly.   Same thing has happened this year even with a young/talented (RT converting to LT in just 1-2 weeks) who isn't anywhere close to being in the best playing shape of his football career.

It's also the same FO that wanted lighter LBers in 2022 while deciding at the same time that DT/IDL was a very low priority.  Gee, what could possibly go wrong beside watch opposing RBs running a 5k with the football between the tackles on us every week?  To answer this question - it was our high inventory of injured LBers almost as if the only people incapable of foreseeing this unfold were the 2 Harvard Grads in the FO... Yes, 2023 was just the opposite in terms of finding expensive/productive short term band aids on the IDL. They did a nice job finding proven veteran DTs (Tomlinson, Hurst, Harris) to help overcome poor/inexperienced draft choices (ie; Togiai and Ika) that could help this defense. As an example of the upgraded performance upfront - it meant far less blockers getting to a guy like JOK.  And what LBer had his very best NFL season last year? JOK.    At least in this case - it appears the FO did a self evaluation of their 2022 thinking and made appropriate changes. It went from being the biggest weakness on the team to a strength that changed the way this defense competed and rated overall.

 

 

 

[ballpeen]

My opinion on Berry has shifted.  I think he is more of a problem than solution.

[AP1]

4 hours ago, ballpeen said:

My opinion on Berry has shifted.  I think he is more of a problem than solution.

I'm starting to feel that way as well. He's a master at making numbers work, not so much at finding talent and assembling the roster.

I hate that I believe the Browns need a new GM, but I think they need a new GM. The quality individuals capable of assessing talent, assembling a roster and doing fuzzy math, won't want to answer to DePodesta. 

[Flugel]

10 hours ago, ballpeen said:

My opinion on Berry has shifted.  I think he is more of a problem than solution.

Even if unintentional, you're speaking for me too up above.  

[ballpeen]

On 11/17/2024 at 5:49 AM, AP1 said:

I'm starting to feel that way as well. He's a master at making numbers work, not so much at finding talent and assembling the roster.

I hate that I believe the Browns need a new GM, but I think they need a new GM. The quality individuals capable of assessing talent, assembling a roster and doing fuzzy math, won't want to answer to DePodesta. 

I don't agree with them answering to DePodesta. I think that is a misplaced idea that has gained traction over the years. There isn't any proof that is the case.  He provides analytics to the staff and is an advisor to Haslam.

[AP1]

6 minutes ago, ballpeen said:

I don't agree with them answering to DePodesta. I think that is a misplaced idea that has gained traction over the years. There isn't any proof that is the case.  He provides analytics to the staff and is an advisor to Haslam.

I hope you're wrong; I fear you are not.

I believe we have one of two situations.

1) Haslam or the Haslams is/are either (a) Jerry Jones wanna-be(s) calling all of the shots which is running this organization into the ground.

2) Or many decisions run through DePodesta which is running this organization into the ground.

Whichever is the case, the owner is in over his head or too involved. I believe that turns the right people away from wanting to be part of the solution.

You are right, we don't know everything that he does or does not do, but the perception is that he meddles. Unfortunately, in the eyes of the fan base, perception becomes reality. 

I posted earlier in a thread, I really thought that by this time we'd be in the position of the Chiefs, Bills, Ravens and Steelers. Remember how pumped we all were for the last Browns' Thursday Night Game?

The excitement has left the building and we're talking off season and draft...

[Bob806]

58 minutes ago, ballpeen said:

I don't agree with them answering to DePodesta. I think that is a misplaced idea that has gained traction over the years. There isn't any proof that is the case.  He provides analytics to the staff and is an advisor to Haslam.

The Browns have done one thing well since Farmer was fired....total silence.

DePodesta seems to have great influence in acquiring players. 

While I certainly cannot prove this, "moneyball" is about getting, or attempting to get talent at a discounted value.

So if he's not involved, why would an Ivy League GM avoid drafting LBs? Why would he continuously draft DBs and ignore such an important position? 

Perhaps he has had some positive influence. Maybe he helped find guys like Hance, or Jordan Hicks. But he also may have pushed for guys like Hickman or Tony Fields.

To me, since we can't fire the owner, he's the fall guy ( DePodesta). Remove him, see what happens. I don't think it's a big roll of the dice.

[nickers]

At some point inevitably... Something has to give... Life is like inertia and gravity wreaking havoc all at once with the Browns.. For every action... Naturally there's a "re-action"  Every week it's some bad news... Some gaff someone made... You name it... When it comes to the Cleveland Browns we have run the gamut on Hollywood scenes even the most talented of writers could never conjure up.... One of them was a dear friend of mine who left us way too soon... Something definitely has to happen... I personally think Mike Vrabel is worth passing the keys too... I just don't see anyone imminent or willing to come out of retirement to take the job other than some retread or unknown... Unless you really want to blacken the kettle and take a chance on Jon Gruden (No by the way Or Gregg Williams as a last resort.) But... You get the picture... Slim pickens unless by some divine intervention we land someone by happen stance and it invigorates us... My God we need a positive shot in the arm... And that's the thing I pray for every God damn day following this team... I'm sick of the way the Haslams have done business.. We have broken down every scenario till we were blue in our faces...... We're all still here waiting for these jack offs to do something... Ah WTF man!!!... The years are fewer... Time, Age and the effects of gravity take hold.... The solstice of the winter season soon looming upon us... I remind myself I was born about 2 weeks after the Browns 1964 Championship... Ya know... I'll take an acorn trip to get one man..!! I hope for the love of God things pan out for once... It's fucking Cleveland MAN!!!!

[Browns149]

I see the problem with this ownership in the structure of the organization. The owner needs to make decisions about the financial future of the team and leave the football stuff to football people

KC, Stoolers, Ratbirds, don’t seem to have owners anyone knows. They let the people that know football run things. Those teams draft well, and they sure as hell  don’t trade 3 1st round picks for a serial sexual predator. Stop listening to guys in La Jolla, Ca. And stay out of the draft room and just sign the checks

We are stuck with an idiot owner who thinks he knows football and he doesn’t. 

Only way this changes is if we get very lucky and find a franchise QB or the owner goes away somehow. And both of those situations are unlikely with the current ownership 

[Browns149]

This is one of the reasons Jimmah needs to get someone here that knows football

 

[Dick Mellon]

On 11/15/2024 at 6:02 AM, Kvoethe said:

Change as in sell the team??

We know that Jimmy is a Steelers fan but he shouldn't make it so damn obvious.

He would give a speech to the team at the beginning of each season, saying things like, "I want the Browns organization to mirror the Steelers organization.

The he went out and got Watson, which is exactly the opposite of what the Steelers would do.  This was highly demoralizing to me and that was before I ever saw Watson play. I don't know how yinz have the stamina to tolerate that; We all know that Steelers fans are idiots, and Jimmy makes it obvious. 

[Dick Mellon]

3 hours ago, Browns149 said:

This is one of the reasons Jimmah needs to get someone here that knows football

 

Steelers seem to always play terribly and win.  The Browns have perfected playing terribly, now follow through with the wins.

[FY56]

58 minutes ago, Dick Mellon said:

We know that Jimmy is a Steelers fan but he shouldn't make it so damn obvious.

He would give a speech to the team at the beginning of each season, saying things like, "I want the Browns organization to mirror the Steelers organization.

The he went out and got Watson, which is exactly the opposite of what the Steelers would do.  This was highly demoralizing to me and that was before I ever saw Watson play. I don't know how yinz have the stamina to tolerate that; We all know that Steelers fans are idiots, and Jimmy makes it obvious. 

WTF are you talking about.

The only thing that made sense was the beginning of your last sentence, except that you’re the one making it obvious.