Kirk Cousins?

[USFBrown]

Cousins is getting benched in ATL.  He has familiarity with Kevin. He really fell off the cliff but we're low on options.  Maybe get him for a year to bridge for our next QB?  Yes-- the perpetual Browns QB hunt continues...

[AP1]

Per Sportrac...

His most recent contract, signed in 2024, was 4 years, $180M, $50M signing bonus, $100M guaranteed. I believe $90M of that is gobbled up in 2024-25. I think the 2025 number is $27.5M, Watson is due $46M in 2025. That's an expensive QB Room.

compared to Jameis's $4M.

I wonder if the Browns could somehow Bobby Bonilla the Watson contract...refinance and stretch the contract out over time, pay him to stay home, stay away and not infect the locker room.

[BernieSuperBowl2]

I never understood why the Falcons signed Cousins to a huge contract and then drafted Penix 8th overall. 

"We believe in you Kirk....kinda"

[USFBrown]

1 hour ago, AP1 said:

Per Sportrac...

His most recent contract, signed in 2024, was 4 years, $180M, $50M signing bonus, $100M guaranteed. I believe $90M of that is gobbled up in 2024-25. I think the 2025 number is $27.5M, Watson is due $46M in 2025. That's an expensive QB Room.

compared to Jameis's $4M.

I wonder if the Browns could somehow Bobby Bonilla the Watson contract...refinance and stretch the contract out over time, pay him to stay home, stay away and not infect the locker room.

He's got a no trade clause - interesting read here:

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/kirk-cousins-should-refuse-to-waive-his-no-trade-clause

[AP1]

7 minutes ago, USFBrown said:

He's got a no trade clause - interesting read here:

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/kirk-cousins-should-refuse-to-waive-his-no-trade-clause

Interesting and entertaining....

[AP1]

52 minutes ago, BernieSuperBowl2 said:

I never understood why the Falcons signed Cousins to a huge contract and then drafted Penix 8th overall. 

"We believe in you Kirk....kinda"

Sign and sit used to be the way of the NFL QB. The Packers still execute such diligence. I think its a rather strategic philosophy. As @ballpeenstated in another thread, we're all looking/waiting for a HOF QB, when all we need is a good QB.

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, AP1 said:

Sign and sit used to be the way of the NFL QB. The Packers still execute such diligence. I think its a rather strategic philosophy. As @ballpeenstated in another thread, we're all looking/waiting for a HOF QB, when all we need is a good QB.

It blows my mind that teams don't understand this. How many QBs in the last decade or so play right away in bad situations and get ruined, OR play right away and succeed at first, but then struggle when the league catches up to them and guess what - because they were rushed into playing they haven't had the time to develop a well-rounded game. So when the league figures them out, they have no counter punch. No Plan B. 

The Browns need a QB who can thrive in Stefanski's offense. (And by Stefanski's offense, I mean what the team ran from 2020-2023, before this Ken Dorsey RPO for Deshaun nonsense began) Since Stefanski's offense isn't "cutting edge", I think they can find someone to run it well outside a top 10 pick. I don't know if this is the year, though. 

[Axe]

A big hell no on Cousins.. Spend all available assets in the draft and the FA market to make the offensive and defensive lines the best in the league.. That's where the the games are won and lost.

[USFBrown]

1 hour ago, Axe said:

A big hell no on Cousins.. Spend all available assets in the draft and the FA market to make the offensive and defensive lines the best in the league.. That's where the the games are won and lost.

Not really arguing against what your saying but Browns had one of these best O lines in the league and did jack shit with those guys. 

We need a somewhat competent QB and I don't think there's one on our roster. 

[tiamat63]

 I like Kirk-O a bit.  If he was cheaper I'd have no issues with that sort of move.  

9 hours ago, USFBrown said:

Not really arguing against what your saying but Browns had one of these best O lines in the league and did jack shit with those guys. 

We need a somewhat competent QB and I don't think there's one on our roster. 

Having a top tier Oline allowed the Browns to be within a game of the playoffs under Hoyer, then serve as the driving force for another playoff run with Baker.    

 

10 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

It blows my mind that teams don't understand this. How many QBs in the last decade or so play right away in bad situations and get ruined, OR play right away and succeed at first, but then struggle when the league catches up to them and guess what - because they were rushed into playing they haven't had the time to develop a well-rounded game. So when the league figures them out, they have no counter punch. No Plan B. 

The Browns need a QB who can thrive in Stefanski's offense. (And by Stefanski's offense, I mean what the team ran from 2020-2023, before this Ken Dorsey RPO for Deshaun nonsense began) Since Stefanski's offense isn't "cutting edge", I think they can find someone to run it well outside a top 10 pick. I don't know if this is the year, though. 

 

 Something the Steelers have reminded everyone of this year - it doesn't take anything complicated to be competitive and to even sneak in division titles during the "between" years.  

 They run the rock, sprinkle in the QBs legs, use play action and play good defense.  They're on their way towards the playoffs and possibly winning the division while you have 2 of the top 3 MVP candidates playing QB in the AFCN. One of them posting historic passing numbers yet still losing games. 

 

[USFBrown]

15 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

 Having a top tier Oline allowed the Browns to be within a game of the playoffs under Hoyer, then serve as the driving force for another playoff run with Baker.    

So spend all that draft capital to miss the playoffs and have a one and out.  Having a great OLine is definitely a huge benefit.  We 100% need to address our OLine.  But in today's football - give me an average O Line and use your capital to get more play makers.  

 

21 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Something the Steelers have reminded everyone of this year - it doesn't take anything complicated to be competitive and to even sneak in division titles during the "between" years.  

 They run the rock, sprinkle in the QBs legs, use play action and play good defense.  They're on their way towards the playoffs and possibly winning the division while you have 2 of the top 3 MVP candidates playing QB in the AFCN. One of them posting historic passing numbers yet still losing games. 

 

And I swore this was going to be a down year for the Steelers before the season started!  Stats are a weird thing - you have to be pass heavy when you're down and thus inflate said states.  Look at Jameis - he was posting killer passing stats (other than turn overs) and we're still losing games.

[Orion]

10 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

you have 2 of the top 3 MVP candidates playing QB in the AFCN. One of them posting historic passing numbers yet still losing games. 

Those 2 QB's don't have good enough defenses.  (see Tale of the Tape for this week)

 

11 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

I like Kirk-O a bit.  If he was cheaper I'd have no issues with that sort of move

Yup.  Too costly.  Especially for us.

As for the OLine...What is the major problem there?  Everyone loves Bitonio, Teller & Conklin.  So is it Pocic and whomever is at LT?   I mean we can't run left, right or up the middle.  And I'm sure we're still leading the league in sacks.  Do we want to throw in the loss of Callahan?   

[tiamat63]

18 hours ago, Orion said:

Those 2 QB's don't have good enough defenses.  (see Tale of the Tape for this week)

 

Yup.  Too costly.  Especially for us.

As for the OLine...What is the major problem there?  Everyone loves Bitonio, Teller & Conklin.  So is it Pocic and whomever is at LT?   I mean we can't run left, right or up the middle.  And I'm sure we're still leading the league in sacks.  Do we want to throw in the loss of Callahan?   

 

 The Oline? Health and age at our guard spots combined with injury and talent death at the tackle spots.   

 Pocic is a solid player.  But when you have instability on both sides of you, it's harder to show your value.

 

[tiamat63]

On 12/19/2024 at 7:37 AM, USFBrown said:

So spend all that draft capital to miss the playoffs and have a one and out.  Having a great OLine is definitely a huge benefit.  We 100% need to address our OLine.  But in today's football - give me an average O Line and use your capital to get more play makers.  

 

 Average Oline combined with average QB play tends to produce average to below average results.   When the Oline took a hit in 2019 Baker struggled with turnovers, even with Odell, Juice, Njoku, Chubb, etc etc. 

 I'd turn to Sam Darnold as my best example.  Plays behind the best pass blocking Oline on the planet and arguably the best WR in the game.  Now people are talking about a career resurgence.  Not that I'm dismissing how dysfunctional the Jets are, not in the least.   But that OL and Justin Jefferson have elevated his game where he was unable to elevate those around him, let alone consistently feed a #1 target previously. 

  What it has also done is to give Minnesota flexibility.  He's done enough where there will be talks of him now being worth a pick in a trade.  Where previously he was a cut and waiver candidate. earn him another contract somewhere that's going to get him paid.   Minnesota wins either way, if they keep or trade him. 

 Crux of my point. Their personnel and coaching took a career average to below average QB and have helped him produce above average results.    If Darnold walks into a league average Oline situation, the Vikes would not have the record they currently do. 

 

On 12/19/2024 at 7:37 AM, USFBrown said:

And I swore this was going to be a down year for the Steelers before the season started!  Stats are a weird thing - you have to be pass heavy when you're down and thus inflate said states.  Look at Jameis - he was posting killer passing stats (other than turn overs) and we're still losing games.

 

Drew Brees is one of my all time favorite players.  He had a 6 year stretch where he lead the league in passing 5 of those years, putting up historic numbers.   Of those 6 years, the Sajnts had a losing record 4 of them.  

 Goes to show that football, much like life, is about proper balance. 

[Orion]

38 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

 

 The Oline? Health and age at our guard spots combined with injury and talent death at the tackle spots.   

 Pocic is a solid player.  But when you have instability on both sides of you, it's harder to show your value.

 

The OL, minus LT, has been together for several games now...but we still can't run the ball or protect the QB.  

[tiamat63]

2 minutes ago, Orion said:

The OL, minus LT, has been together for several games now...but we still can't run the ball or protect the QB.  

Again, age and injury.  They just don't have it like they use to.   Isn't hard to tell when you see how they fire off the ball, especially in the lateral run game. 

[Orion]

20 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Again, age and injury.  They just don't have it like they use to.   Isn't hard to tell when you see how they fire off the ball, especially in the lateral run game. 

So what you're saying is that everyone except Pocic needs to be replaced.

[Dutch Oven]

5 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

 

 The Oline? Health and age at our guard spots combined with injury and talent death at the tackle spots.   

 Pocic is a solid player.  But when you have instability on both sides of you, it's harder to show your value.

 

Thoughts on the few games Zinter started? 

[Flugel]

On 12/18/2024 at 9:02 PM, Axe said:

A big hell no on Cousins.. Spend all available assets in the draft and the FA market to make the offensive and defensive lines the best in the league.. That's where the the games are won and lost.

Nice!   A bad ass tone to go with a little "He ain't my Cousin."  

 

[Flugel]

33 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Thoughts on the few games Zinter started? 

Well, when Pro Bowl RG Wyatt Teller was his age he didn't play at all so keep this in mind with NFL Linemen.  How quickly they develop tends to vary especially inside when an OG can face a stout 340 pound DT with ideal leverage.  

To answer your question, he looked promising.  Most of his mistakes seemed to be more cognitive than physical.  That said, he was the guy that left the Ohio State - Michigan game with a brutal lower leg injury.  It was amazing he was cleared for contact at the onset of training camp. I think he's going to be very solid and ready to start the day Bitonio retires. That may be sooner than some people think.

Don't forget we're getting Luke Wypler back healthy next year.   That's right, the Wypler Snapper who can also can also play Guard. I thought it was an absolute steal getting him in round 6.

 

[Orion]

2 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Thoughts on the few games Zinter started? 

I thought he belonged on the bench.  But that's just me.

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

Well, when Pro Bowl RG Wyatt Teller was his age he didn't play at all so keep this in mind with NFL Linemen.  How quickly they develop tends to vary especially inside when an OG can face a stout 340 pound DT with ideal leverage.  

To answer your question, he looked promising.  Most of his mistakes seemed to be more cognitive than physical.  That said, he was the guy that left the Ohio State - Michigan game with a brutal lower leg injury.  It was amazing he was cleared for contact at the onset of training camp. I think he's going to be very solid and ready to start the day Bitonio retires. That may be sooner than some people think.

Don't forget we're getting Luke Wypler back healthy next year.   That's right, the Wypler Snapper who can also can also play Guard. I thought it was an absolute steal getting him in round 6.

 

Ohio State will have Left Tackle in Josh Simmons, a mid/late first round prospect too. 

[Flugel]

9 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Ohio State will have Left Tackle in Josh Simmons, a mid/late first round prospect too. 

Good point. And he'd be a guy they could trade back for.  

[Dutch Oven]

1 minute ago, Flugel said:

Good point. And he'd be a guy they could trade back for.  

Or up for...

Maybe a slight trade back with the (now) 7th overall pick, then a trade up from a high second rounder back into the first for Simmons? 

It boggles the mind FLugs! 

[tiamat63]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

Or up for...

Maybe a slight trade back with the (now) 7th overall pick, then a trade up from a high second rounder back into the first for Simmons? 

It boggles the mind FLugs! 

 

Let the board come to you.  Simmons was pretty good, then had a season ending knee injury.  I'm not too apt trading up form players with significant injury history that take such contact every play.    Even if they are Buckeyes staying home. 

[tiamat63]

15 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Thoughts on the few games Zinter started? 

 

I'm doing a recap on the rookies after the season is over, I'll be charting all their snap.  So I'll get back to you on that. 

[Dutch Oven]

Just now, tiamat63 said:

 

I'm doing a recap on the rookies after the season is over, I'll be charting all their snap.  So I'll get back to you on that. 

My man!

[Flugel]

2 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Or up for...

Maybe a slight trade back with the (now) 7th overall pick, then a trade up from a high second rounder back into the first for Simmons? 

It boggles the mind FLugs! 

I hear ya - just keep it nourished with cold beer.  

We should get a good look at Simmons tonight; and it sounds like he will be tested.   

[Dutch Oven]

5 minutes ago, Flugel said:

I hear ya - just keep it nourished with cold beer.  

We should get a good look at Simmons tonight; and it sounds like he will be tested.   

Simmons had a season ending injury sometime before the Penn State game 

[Flugel]

5 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Simmons had a season ending injury sometime before the Penn State game 

Ready for this? He was lost for the year in the Oregon Game.  That's me and you being really on top of it all.  Yeah, we got it covered. 

Edited December 21, 2024 by Flugel