Browns - Watson restructure deal....a bit.

[Orion]

Sources: The #Browns and QB Deshaun Watson have agreed to terms on a contract restructure, easing the salary cap burden for years to come. The reworked deal also signals that Watson is expected to be on the #Browns next season. This is about the cap after his deal is up.

The adjustment to Deshaun Watson’s contract doesn’t impact his ~$73M cap number in 2025 (which can happen later). It lets the #Browns spread the cap hit at the end of the contract, which expires after 2026 — a strong sign Watson will be in Cleveland two more years (at least).

 

[Dutch Oven]

The gift that keeps on giving!

[calfoxwc]

Went to the dentist today - he said he and his family are still disgusted they made that signing - and it has hurt the Browns

so much they don't bother watching them now - his son will only watch them if watson doesn't play.

A lot of folks feel that way. Again, I was only joking about making a long stick with a black piece of felt on it to keep him from being seen when I watch them. These days, we only watch on record, so we can fast forward through the commercials. He laughed and said some of them have done the same thing. Haslams need to sell the team.

[Dutch Oven]

The continued selective morality of cal never fails to amuse. 

[Flugel]

13 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

The gift that keeps on giving!

Which gift??  The dentist office that gave the patient too much laughing gas?  Or, the one about the Owner and FO railroading themselves for 2 more years to Watson?

Edited December 28, 2024 by Flugel

[Dutch Oven]

35 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Which gift??  The dentist office that gave the patient too much laughing gas?  Or, the one about the Owner and FO railroading themselves for 2 more years to Watson?

I've always assumed he'd be here the next two seasons, so this news barely produced a shrug out of me.

I'd rather bite the bullet so when the two years are up, he no longer counts for one penny against the cap. If we need to blow it up and rebuild, go for it. 

[Flugel]

4 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

I've always assumed he'd be here the next two seasons, so this news barely produced a shrug out of me.

I'd rather bite the bullet so when the two years are up, he no longer counts for one penny against the cap. If we need to blow it up and rebuild, go for it. 

Here's the thing about blowing it all up and starting all over again in the AFC North - what if our favorite team has a bad owner that doesn't know how to hire the right FO?  Rinsing and repeating just to rinse and repeat doesn't mean a thing if your FO can't draft worth a shit.  I've been at this for a while now; and all of a sudden I'm 60 years old watching the same thing unfold every time.  Think about what really needs to change 1st (totally doable) before any other changes to follow will even matter.  Let me know what you (or anyone else that wants to respond) are thinking.  I'll share my thoughts after the responses even though I've probably spoiler alerted these thoughts throughout the year.

 

 

[Bob806]

Kicking the can down the road.

I think we need to go to the lunch room at Tri C West & find a better GM.

If these clowns, DePodesta & Berry, don't draft 3 LBs & 3 OLinemen I'm gonna end up at the Betty Ford Clinic.

Restructuring DW. The gift that keeps on giving.

[Dutch Oven]

Just now, Flugel said:

Here's the thing about blowing it all up and starting all over again in the AFC North - what if our favorite team has a bad owner that doesn't know how to hire the right FO?  Rinsing and repeating just to rinse and repeat doesn't mean a thing if your FO can't draft worth a shit.  I've been at this for a while now; and all of a sudden I'm 60 years old watching the same thing unfold every time.  Think about what really needs to change 1st (totally doable) before any other changes to follow will even matter.  Let me know what you (or anyone else that wants to respond) are thinking.  I'll share my thoughts after the responses even though I've probably spoiler alerted these thoughts throughout the year.

 

 

I mean trade away veterans like Myles and Denzel for picks and rebuild this second-oldest (and very expensive) roster.

The window for Super Bowl contention for Garrett, Ward, Bitonio, Teller, Njoku and Chubb has closed. Bite the bullet on Watson's contract the next two seasons and rebuild.

And Andrew Berry cannot be allowed to take all these draft picks they would have and keep producing middling results. I'm fine with Stefanski sticking around, but with him running HIS offense again, not this poor excuse of the RPO.

I know this is probably very unlikely. If they can Berry, the new GM candidate probably wouldn't want to come in to a situation where he can't pick his own head coach, unless they can find someone who likes Stefanski.

Dan Orlovsky of ESPN the other day mentioned that he has heard that Mike Vrabel "pretty much has a head coach gig lined up" once the season is over... he wouldn't say where, and all the other talking heads thought it was Ohio State (I'm guessing this clip is from BEFORE the OSU/Tenn game) but perhaps he's hearing the Browns? 

I just can't see the Browns winning 3 or so games with the Watson situation in complete shambles and NO ONE not paying a price for it after the season ends. This is year 5 of Berry and Stefanski, I think we can move on from "Itchy Trigger Finger Jimmuh" statements. The Haslams have seen this through.

It might be time for them to move on. 

[Bob806]

I just e mailed my season tickets rep about restructuring my plan.

I'll post the reply when I get one 

[syd]

1 hour ago, Bob806 said:

I just e mailed my season tickets rep about restructuring my plan.

I'll post the reply when I get one 

LOL good luck

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, Bob806 said:

I just e mailed my season tickets rep about restructuring my plan.

I'll post the reply when I get one 

And the Post of the Year comes in our last week... 

[Orion]

3 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I just can't see the Browns winning 3 or so games with the Watson situation in complete shambles and NO ONE not paying a price for it after the season end

That, of course, makes sense. 

Flugel wants Berry gone.  If it was Berry's idea and doings to bring in Watson, and that deal, then he had to know that he stuck his neck out and that if it didn't work out it would be his head in the basket.  One can add to that the fact that he drafted Wills when there were other LT's available that were rated higher...and went on to have good careers.  And we can rattle off a bunch of other draft picks that have not worked out or under performed.

Stefanski, however is at the mercy of the players that he's given to work with.  I know that GM's like to hire their own HC.  But, screw that!  The GM's job is to bring in good players...to match the system(s) in place.  Just because they can't do that doesn't mean that the rest of the coaching staff has to go, along with the GM.  At least not to me.  I would tell perspective GM's, Hey!  You don't have to like the HC, or the parking lot attendant, you just have to bring in good players!  You don't want the job?  There's the door!

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, Orion said:

That, of course, makes sense. 

Flugel wants Berry gone.  If it was Berry's idea and doings to bring in Watson, and that deal, then he had to know that he stuck his neck out and that if it didn't work out it would be his head in the basket.  One can add to that the fact that he drafted Wills when there were other LT's available that were rated higher...and went on to have good careers.  And we can rattle off a bunch of other draft picks that have not worked out or under performed.

Stefanski, however is at the mercy of the players that he's given to work with.  I know that GM's like to hire their own HC.  But, screw that!  The GM's job is to bring in good players...to match the system(s) in place.  Just because they can't do that doesn't mean that the rest of the coaching staff has to go, along with the GM.  At least not to me.  I would tell perspective GM's, Hey!  You don't have to like the HC, or the parking lot attendant, you just have to bring in good players!  You don't want the job?  There's the door!

I tend to believe you hire the top guy, then let him hire the head coach, who in return hires the assistants, etc…

I mean, would you hire a head coach but then tell him “Hey there, you have to keep the existing offensive coordinator”?

[Orion]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

would you hire a head coach but then tell him “Hey there, you have to keep the existing offensive coordinator”?

No, but who decided that the GM is second in command to the owner?  To me the GM's job is to evaluate and bring in players.  He doesn't get to tell the HC who he can play or what plays to call or any of that stuff.  

[Dutch Oven]

Just now, Orion said:

No, but who decided that the GM is second in command to the owner?  To me the GM's job is to evaluate and bring in players.  He doesn't get to tell the HC who he can play or what plays to call or any of that stuff.  

I think you get my point though, hire the top and move downward. There were a few instances in the past where the Browns did it the other way, with hilarious consequences.

But there might be GM candidates out there who would like to work with Stefanski 

[Orion]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

I think you get my point though, hire the top and move downward. There were a few instances in the past where the Browns did it the other way, with hilarious consequences.

But there might be GM candidates out there who would like to work with Stefanski 

Yes, I DO get your point.  And I remember those instances.  But I still don't understand why we're putting the GM higher on the organizational chart than the HC.  Or the other way around.  They are two different jobs.  One should not have to report to the other.  They need to work together.  One shouldn't have to kiss the other's ass.  

If I owned a team, I'd want the best damned GM I could find and then the best HC I could find.  The GM can pick his scouts and the HC can pick his assistant coaches and coordinators.  I don't see where it makes any sense that the HC has to go because the GM did a lousy job.  Let's take our situation.  A two time coach of the year would have to be replaced because the GM did a lousy job?  -  Now some may argue that the HC stinks....but for the sake of argument let's say the HC is a good one.

[Flugel]

3 hours ago, Orion said:

That, of course, makes sense. 

Flugel wants Berry gone.  If it was Berry's idea and doings to bring in Watson, and that deal, then he had to know that he stuck his neck out and that if it didn't work out it would be his head in the basket.  One can add to that the fact that he drafted Wills when there were other LT's available that were rated higher...and went on to have good careers.  And we can rattle off a bunch of other draft picks that have not worked out or under performed.

Stefanski, however is at the mercy of the players that he's given to work with.  I know that GM's like to hire their own HC.  But, screw that!  The GM's job is to bring in good players...to match the system(s) in place.  Just because they can't do that doesn't mean that the rest of the coaching staff has to go, along with the GM.  At least not to me.  I would tell perspective GM's, Hey!  You don't have to like the HC, or the parking lot attendant, you just have to bring in good players!  You don't want the job?  There's the door!

I'd rather have Berry be good at drafting people; because that's so important to the success of his position on behalf of the team we root for.  Unfortunately, outside of the blind squirrel finding nut scenario with JOK landing on our draft slot - I don't have any evidence Berry is good at drafting.  4 years is a lot of chances to give us something.

Remember the year the FO mentioned they wanted lighter LBers to make coverage easier while deciding at the same time the DT/IDL positions weren't important?  It felt like a bad team (like the Falcons that year) ran a 10k with the football on us between the tackles.  The Browns often got off to an early lead on their 1st possession which usually disintegrated after the opponents' 1st possession. As fate would have it - the projected starting LBers ended up on IR (while backups were injured too) because this team was too weak at DT to keep O-linemen off the LBers.  IMO, that's major incompetence from the FO.

Let's make sure we don't leave Depodesta out.  He needs to be fired too. 

I'm too old to get excited about start overs; but if we're going to do this right - a very important self evaluation needs to take place from Jimmy about the hiring of the FO.  If this doesn't happen, the bi-polarcoaster ride continues for a fan-base deserving better...  

 

 

[Flugel]

3 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I tend to believe you hire the top guy, then let him hire the head coach, who in return hires the assistants, etc…

I mean, would you hire a head coach but then tell him “Hey there, you have to keep the existing offensive coordinator”?

You guys both have good points.  I think it's important to have a good working relationship between the GM and the HC in pertinence to specific schemes on each side of the ball.  This means the HC can be somewhat of a liaison between his coordinators/position coaches and the GM as they work toward the draft and/or free agency.

[Orion]

We've tried every kind of hierarchy imaginable.  We put Butch Davis in charge and he drafted Big Money (because he had recruited him out of high school) instead of Richard Seymore.  We've had Ray Farmer and Mike Pettine who hated each other (and were both garbage).  We tried putting Mike Holgrem as President to supervise and be the deciding vote over the HC & GM.  And now we've got DePodesta.  The commonality through most of that has been Haslem.  I don't have to ask what that tells us.  But Mr. NEW & IMPROVED will have his new glitzy domed stadium...and for the umpteenth time, the New & Improved will fix everything.  -  To be clear however, I think that the dome will help to attract better talent since they won't have to play in horrid winter conditions AND have to put up with Haslem running the ship.  

[Flugel]

12 hours ago, Orion said:

We've tried every kind of hierarchy imaginable.  We put Butch Davis in charge and he drafted Big Money (because he had recruited him out of high school) instead of Richard Seymore.  We've had Ray Farmer and Mike Pettine who hated each other (and were both garbage).  We tried putting Mike Holgrem as President to supervise and be the deciding vote over the HC & GM.  And now we've got DePodesta.  The commonality through most of that has been Haslem.  I don't have to ask what that tells us.  But Mr. NEW & IMPROVED will have his new glitzy domed stadium...and for the umpteenth time, the New & Improved will fix everything.  -  To be clear however, I think that the dome will help to attract better talent since they won't have to play in horrid winter conditions AND have to put up with Haslem running the ship.  

All true; but justifying doing nothing because Butch Davis failed 20 years ago isn't a reason to stick the current forfeit our FO is giving us.  Haslem can Jerry Jones the crap out of a new stadium; and what does that do if you STILL suck at drafting people and hiring staff and personnel?   I see so much impatience that this organization doesn't even value the draft. I'm sorry but it's a red flag that will put quick sand under the new dome while the never ending find the scapegoat to blame in Cleveland will be reinforced.

At some point, you have to be able to draft to perpetuate a healthy salary cap and build up the chemistry and continuity.  When these 1-2 year band-aids keep popping off - what are we looking at?  Nobody we've drafted. So, we're planning for the next time we can throw a bunch of 1-2 year band aids together in 2-3 years for a brief respite from losing.  I need better than that this time around.  Handing a Gypsy a new stadium won't help us.  Getting SOMEONE South of Jesus with great credibility and leadership to advise Jimmy - bands from bad FOs don't keep ships floating.  We're watching this unfold before our eyes aren't we?

Do we use a WR we drafted with any regularity?  No - so we pay more

Do we use a Center we drafted? No - so we pay more

Do we use a RG we drafted? No - so we pay more

Until Michael Hall Jr was allowed to play - were we using any DTs we drafted?  No - so we pay more.  Part of that was because the ones they did draft weren't very good.

Did we draft the edge rushers opposite of Garrett was ZaDarius Smith and Ogbo Okoronkwo- so we paid more.  Having said that, we did draft Isaiah McGuire in rd 4 in 2023 and he's giving quality reps in the rotation

The QB Trade for Watson - and yet, they rarely ever gave their drafted QB a full week of practice with starters leading up to his 1st few appearances.  You don't take a rookie QB and have him only practice with the scout team against our defense all week ONLY to tell him 2 hours before kickoff - you're our starter today against the Ratbirds and expect success.  Why?  No practice with the game plan and applicable situational football prep for that specific defense.  Even worse, no familiarity or chance of chemistry whatsoever with the strangers he suddenly had to throw to. Again, he was throwing to practice squad types on the scout team all week. The short window for a young QB like him to succeed is slamming shut on him so his brief 2 years here was completely wasted. 

NOW, the talented players that I already mentioned that were here before Berry?  David Njoku, Myles Garrett, Denzel Ward, Nick Chubb, Joel Bitonio, Wyatt Teller.  They were all key guys on the team that won a playoff game in Pittsburgh that were ahead of Pitt with a score of 48-29 with only 1:09 remaining in the game (before a junk-time TD with a 2 point conversion).  IMO, that nucleus of players should have been an ideal starting point for Berry.  He's had 4 years and he still can't draft, which is why he counts on proven players others have drafted by paying them more $ than their previous teams would pay them.  

Look at the Rams, Lions, 49ers, Chiefs, Bills, Ratbirds, Eagles - those teams mostly have been built through the draft before adding a Derrick Henry or Saquon Barkley/AJ Brown.  It ain't like Barkley was frequenting playoffs with the Giants any more than Henry was with TN.  You have to be able to draft better than Berry has for the Browns.  This shouldn't be a tough upgrade.

[calfoxwc]

I just think the Browns keep having the wrong fo people, the wrong head coaches, etc because they have

the wrong crap rich sumbags as owners. It filters down.

Even reworking that stupid ass trade, the Browns are said to be dropping players.

Like Chubb. and of course, Wills. and Conklin. and maybe, Garrett will decide to give up.

But I'm sure Stupanski works cheap so they will keep him, even though he has the personality of stale, bland oatmeal.

https://heavy.com/sports/nfl/cleveland-browns/nick-chubb-jack-conklin-jedrick-wills/

[Dutch Oven]

Wait until cal finds out that this "scumbag" organization is planning on adding another scumbag to their front office.

The guy apparently is a coke head who paid underage girls for sex.

Oh, wait... wrong scumbag organization. 🤣