You Choose

[AP1]

Sunday morning, December the 29th, Jimmy Haslam wakes up after an epiphany. He's gone 72-131-1 as the owner of the Browns. He realizes that aside from two outlier seasons in his time as owner, the structure he has allowed isn't working. As one of 32 League owners, he's still in one of the most exclusive clubs on the planet so he has no intention of selling, but he's going to make some changes. 

What are the best four changes/hires he can make?

[calfoxwc]

1. Refund all PSL holders, Haslam. Fire Stupidanski. He isn't a real HC.

2. Trade watson for $5 and two big macs.

3. Sell the team, scumbag.

4. Forget moving the Browns to Brookpark - "the Brookpark Browns" sound stupid. and apologize to all Browns fans for being

a scumbag who hires too many scumbags.

[USFBrown]

1. Stop meddling with the team 

2. Fire the FO and hire guys who aren't just 'yes' men.  Current regime is a bunch yes men betas 

3. Take the dome off the new stadium 

4. Remove head from ass and take a jump into the lake

[Orion]

8 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

Fire Stupidanski. He isn't a real HC.

Yeah!  We don't need no stinking 2 time coach of the year!  Let's bring back the bill-hilly Kitchens!

[TexasAg1969]

Hire a real GM who is expert in drafting & trading and be rid of Depo the baseball guy. Current combo is the real problem here, not the HC who is a victim of the two clowns running it. Let Watson sit the bench until the clown's contract with him expires and find a decent backup while looking for a QB.

PS-meanwhile fix the lines both sides of the ball. If you build it, he will come.

[AP1]

Okay, let me push this a little further. 

I'm confident we all want DePodesta gone.

I think the board is 50/50 on Stefanski. 

Lets steer this towards the Front Office. Does anyone have a specific individual they believe would best make a suitable GM? Is he already im the building? If not, where is he?

I'm okay admitting, I don't believe Berry to be up to the job and Jimmy's track record has proven he's not equipped to find the individual, but i don't know who it is either.

[Dutch Oven]

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/top-20-candidates-replace-joe-douglas-new-york-jets-gm/

[Bob806]

1) Demote or eliminate DePodesta

2) Rebuild the trenches

3) Cut season ticket prices

4) DRAFT SOME LBs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[AP1]

How would anyone feel about bringing back John Dorsey?

I'm not sure exactly how much impact he has had in Detroit, and I think many believe that's done on the driving force of Dan Campbell's passion but the roster had to be assembled. 

[USFBrown]

3 hours ago, Orion said:

Yeah!  We don't need no stinking 2 time coach of the year!  Let's bring back the bill-hilly Kitchens!

The guy is below 500 as a head coach for the Browns. Cleveland continues year after year to be in the top half of penalized teams. Continued to start Watson when we all knew he was cooked. Had some clock management issues.

I'm not sold on the guy but it seems players do play hard for him. 

I'm not watching hard knocks but wonder what others who do watch think of the "behind the scenes"

[Dutch Oven]

22 minutes ago, AP1 said:

How would anyone feel about bringing back John Dorsey?

I'm not sure exactly how much impact he has had in Detroit, and I think many believe that's done on the driving force of Dan Campbell's passion but the roster had to be assembled. 

John Dorsey GM/Mike Vrabel HC combo would be interesting. 

I'd be curious if he'd want to come back here though.

If Dorsey would come back, you would be talking about a 100% complete rehaul of the Browns organization. You aren't keeping guys around that were Sashi/Berry analytical guys with Dorsey. He already went through that once. 

[Orion]

12 minutes ago, USFBrown said:

The guy is below 500 as a head coach for the Browns. Cleveland continues year after year to be in the top half of penalized teams. Continued to start Watson when we all knew he was cooked. 

Watson gave us the best chance of winning games.  Winston gave both teams a half decent chance at winning as he regularly threw passes to either team.

John Dorsey is yesterday's news as far as Cleveland is concerned.  

[USFBrown]

1 hour ago, Orion said:

Watson gave us the best chance of winning games.  Winston gave both teams a half decent chance at winning as he regularly threw passes to either team.

John Dorsey is yesterday's news as far as Cleveland is concerned.  

Agree to disagree on Watson. Guy was 1-6 and had the worst stats of nearly all starting QBs. 

[calfoxwc]

6 minutes ago, USFBrown said:

Agree to disagree on Watson. Guy was 1-6 and had the worst stats of nearly all starting QBs. 

Yep. Watson was a loser - a loser of the ball. 12 ints in 2019 alone.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/deshaun-watson-turnovers-career

 

https://clesportstalk.com/it-clearly-doesnt-matter-to-deshaun-watson/

 

[Marvin the Martian]

3 hours ago, Orion said:

Watson gave us the best chance of winning games.  Winston gave both teams a half decent chance at winning as he regularly threw passes to either team.

John Dorsey is yesterday's news as far as Cleveland is concerned.  

The only way Watson can help us win games is to designate him as our opponent's starting QB

[Browns149]

Fire Depo. His so-called Strategy is a loser 

Fire Berry, his drafts have sucked

Hire a football guy as GM who knows players not analytics 

Find a way to get rid of Watson

 

[SdBacker80]

Admittedly I haven’t watched as closely this year but what we can do…

1. Depo gone.

2. Force Watson to just sit at home. 
3.  Fire Dorsey.

What we shouldn’t do…

4. Resist the urge to get Pennies on the dollar in a Myles Garrett Trade 

5. Run back the GM/HC combo. 

[Dutch Oven]

2 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

4. Resist the urge to get Pennies on the dollar in a Myles Garrett Trade 

 

What do you think we would get for Myles?

I think you and I are probably miles apart on this. I think someone would give us a pretty hefty return, especially a team that feels it is one great defensive player away from a Super Bowl. 

[SdBacker80]

12 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

What do you think we would get for Myles?

I think you and I are probably miles apart on this. I think someone would give us a pretty hefty return, especially a team that feels it is one great defensive player away from a Super Bowl. 

I think we are close. I don’t know the offer but It wouldn’t be enough.  You don’t replace Myles by sending him to a contender and getting draft picks at the end of rounds.   He’s 29.   I’m watching 17 year vet Calais Campbell now.  I’ll take my chances Myles plays well for another 3-4 years and maybe we get this right at the end of that time. 

[Orion]

From what I'm seeing, there's a group thinking that because we're losing football games that it means that Stefanski sucks, stinks, whatever, and has to go.  To that I say, Do we understand how important the QB position is to the success of a football team?  

What was he supposed to do to win with our QB room?  With our porous offensive line?  Our lack of ability to run the ball?   What magic tricks was he supposed to pull out of his (sleeve?) ?    He had Watson not playing pro bowl style...and not progressing rapidly.  And ultimately getting hurt and out for the year, again, and again.  Then he had to go to Winston, who's a great person....but he's a turnover machine.  Always has been.  And DTR.  Let's put aside that he's a 2 time coach of the year.  How could we TELL that he's a bad coach?  Don Shula in his football intellectual prime couldn't have done much better with what Stef has had to work with.  

The HC cannot block open holes for the RB's and cannot throw TD passes.  Until we shore up the OL and get a competent QB, nothing will change.   

[Dutch Oven]

16 minutes ago, Orion said:

From what I'm seeing, there's a group thinking that because we're losing football games that it means that Stefanski sucks, stinks, whatever, and has to go.  To that I say, Do we understand how important the QB position is to the success of a football team?  

What was he supposed to do to win with our QB room?  With our porous offensive line?  Our lack of ability to run the ball?   What magic tricks was he supposed to pull out of his (sleeve?) ?    He had Watson not playing pro bowl style...and not progressing rapidly.  And ultimately getting hurt and out for the year, again, and again.  Then he had to go to Winston, who's a great person....but he's a turnover machine.  Always has been.  And DTR.  Let's put aside that he's a 2 time coach of the year.  How could we TELL that he's a bad coach?  Don Shula in his football intellectual prime couldn't have done much better with what Stef has had to work with.  

The HC cannot block open holes for the RB's and cannot throw TD passes.  Until we shore up the OL and get a competent QB, nothing will change.   

I'm absolutely fine with them bringing back Stefanski next year.

But they need to go back to HIS offense. With his offense, he took a team with five different quarterbacks starting to a 11-6 record in 2023. 

They might have to keep Watson around, but there's no reason they can't bring in someone else to start. Let Watson be the world's most expensive backup. Hell, let him be the world's most expensive #3 QB. 

[USFBrown]

51 minutes ago, Orion said:

From what I'm seeing, there's a group thinking that because we're losing football games that it means that Stefanski sucks, stinks, whatever, and has to go.  To that I say, Do we understand how important the QB position is to the success of a football team?  

What was he supposed to do to win with our QB room?  With our porous offensive line?  Our lack of ability to run the ball?   What magic tricks was he supposed to pull out of his (sleeve?) ?    He had Watson not playing pro bowl style...and not progressing rapidly.  And ultimately getting hurt and out for the year, again, and again.  Then he had to go to Winston, who's a great person....but he's a turnover machine.  Always has been.  And DTR.  Let's put aside that he's a 2 time coach of the year.  How could we TELL that he's a bad coach?  Don Shula in his football intellectual prime couldn't have done much better with what Stef has had to work with.  

The HC cannot block open holes for the RB's and cannot throw TD passes.  Until we shore up the OL and get a competent QB, nothing will change.   

I'm fine with him coming back too.  I don't like the continually fire coaches however I have my issues with him.   I'm not a fan of how he handled Watson, how long it took him to give up play calling, clock management mistakes, the Browns are continually top in penalties, he's a sub 500 coach.   

Flip what you said around - What has he done to convince you he's such a great coach?  

[SdBacker80]

1 hour ago, Orion said:

From what I'm seeing, there's a group thinking that because we're losing football games that it means that Stefanski sucks, stinks, whatever, and has to go.  To that I say, Do we understand how important the QB position is to the success of a football team?  

What was he supposed to do to win with our QB room?  With our porous offensive line?  Our lack of ability to run the ball?   What magic tricks was he supposed to pull out of his (sleeve?) ?    He had Watson not playing pro bowl style...and not progressing rapidly.  And ultimately getting hurt and out for the year, again, and again.  Then he had to go to Winston, who's a great person....but he's a turnover machine.  Always has been.  And DTR.  Let's put aside that he's a 2 time coach of the year.  How could we TELL that he's a bad coach?  Don Shula in his football intellectual prime couldn't have done much better with what Stef has had to work with.  

The HC cannot block open holes for the RB's and cannot throw TD passes.  Until we shore up the OL and get a competent QB, nothing will change.   

I agree with you. 
And I should clarified…I’d keep Stefanski and I’d move on from Berry.  
 

Stefanski would have a job lined up tomorrow if he was fired tonight.  And any shuffle of him out and someone else in- does that move the needle at all?  Maybe a fresh voice?  Do we need that - the team is fighting.  Last years effort with the revolving door of QBs none of which are top half of the league was impressive.

 

[Orion]

17 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

the team is fighting.  Last years effort with the revolving door of QBs none of which are top half of the league was impressive.

This would be my answer to your question USFBrown.  And how much has switching the play callers helped?  You still have the same players trying to execute the plays.

Last year Stef put the analytics playbook on the shelf and called the games such that whenever he could take a FG, he did.  Just to get some freakin' points.  But that's not what DePodesta wants.  And he's got Haslem's ear.  Do you remember DePo's statement a few years back?  We're not interested in 4 yard runs.  We want 13 yard passes.  Inevitably, everybody reports to someone.

[BernieSuperBowl2]

1) Jimmy takes out an ad in the Plain Dealer and apologizes to the Cleveland Browns fan base. He refers to himelf as "dumbass owner" several times.

2) Jimmy hires a scientist to invent a time machine.

3) Using the time machine, Jimmy travels back in time to 2012 and prevents his younger self from buying the Browns. 

4) Using "Back to The Future" time travel rules, the future has now been altered in 2024. The Browns have a different owner, have won several Super Bowls, and are now a football dynasty in 2024. 

[USFBrown]

1 hour ago, Orion said:

This would be my answer to your question USFBrown.  And how much has switching the play callers helped?  You still have the same players trying to execute the plays.

Last year Stef put the analytics playbook on the shelf and called the games such that whenever he could take a FG, he did.  Just to get some freakin' points.  But that's not what DePodesta wants.  And he's got Haslem's ear.  Do you remember DePo's statement a few years back?  We're not interested in 4 yard runs.  We want 13 yard passes.  Inevitably, everybody reports to someone.

Players fighting is a good point, but I don't see any other point.  Like I said - I'm not for firing all the time but I don't get why people think Stefanski is some great HC.  I agree we need some continuity but how much longer do we give this guy?

  Giving up play calling should in theory allow the coach to perform better clock management and overall game management.  I remember a stint where there was some really bad clock management early in the season.

 

[Bob806]

9 hours ago, BernieSuperBowl2 said:

1) Jimmy takes out an ad in the Plain Dealer and apologizes to the Cleveland Browns fan base. He refers to himelf as "dumbass owner" several times.

2) Jimmy hires a scientist to invent a time machine.

3) Using the time machine, Jimmy travels back in time to 2012 and prevents his younger self from buying the Browns. 

4) Using "Back to The Future" time travel rules, the future has now been altered in 2024. The Browns have a different owner, have won several Super Bowls, and are now a football dynasty in 2024. 

I'm wondering if that time machine can find Lindy Infante's offense, and Matthews, Johnson, & Johnson at LB

[Flugel]

12 hours ago, USFBrown said:

I'm fine with him coming back too.  I don't like the continually fire coaches however I have my issues with him.   I'm not a fan of how he handled Watson, how long it took him to give up play calling, clock management mistakes, the Browns are continually top in penalties, he's a sub 500 coach.   

Flip what you said around - What has he done to convince you he's such a great coach?  

A team that only made the playoffs in 2002 suddenly made the playoffs in 2020 and 2023.

My take - we haven't drafted well and it's hurting us bad.

Second, there's too many Chiefs in the FO and unfortunately Depodesta has seniority as well as too much trust from Jimmy.  I could be wrong here but I get the impression he interferes with what Stefanski and Andrew Berry are capable of.  In baseball Depodesta doesn't need film to interfere with his numbers/analytics. In football, all matchups vary so film is VERY important.

If the Browns did end up going the route of changing the HC - my recommendation would be Buffalo's OC Joe Brady that upgraded his QB's significantly over that of Ken Dorsey back when Josh Allen threw a lot more INTs than he has since's Dorsey's exit.  All of a sudden, they have a pretty damn good candidate for MVP.  Here's a little something I Googled on his background - and try to remember when LSU won the Natty with a killer good passing game as you observe it. Before that, he was an offensive assistant in Drew Brees' passing game. Here's something I Googled and then I added Wikipedia to further illustrate where Ken Dorsey had them going before Joe Brady.  YES, he did have a brief stop at Carolina before Buffalo and blended in with stink just like Mayfield and Darnold did before they played their best NFL football on other teams.

Joe Brady coached at LSU as the passing game coordinator and wide receivers coach in 2019: 

 

• Coaching experience

  Brady's coaching experience includes:

  • LSU: 2019 season as passing game coordinator and wide receivers coach
  • New Orleans Saints: 2017–2018 as offensive assistant

 On February 4, 2022, Brady was hired by the Buffalo Bills as their quarterbacks coach.^[12] The Bills fired OC Ken Dorsey on November 14, 2023 after a 5–5 start to the 2023 season, and Brady was promoted to interim offensive coordinator.^[13] Under Brady, the Bills offense went from almost entirely focused on passing with quarterback Josh Allen and receiver Stefon Diggs to being more balanced and favoring running backs James Cook and Ty Johnson, also allowing Allen to run more.^[14][15] This new approach helped Buffalo win six of their final seven games to finish with an 11–6 record and their fourth consecutive AFC East title.^[16] The Bills promoted Brady to full-time offensive coordinator following the season.^[17]

 

[Flugel]

34 minutes ago, Bob806 said:

I'm wondering if that time machine can find Lindy Infante's offense, and Matthews, Johnson, & Johnson at LB

My favorite OC here was Lindy Infante.  I'm guessing there were guys just as good/better in the 40s, 50s and 60s though...

[lodilobo]

If Andrew Berry isn't fired immediately, things will stay the same. He can't draft the best players available. He always wants to trade down. His work history here, is a perfect example why trading down is a bad idea. You end up with more average / bad players than good. Stefanski is not a bad coach, but really has some problems. The only reason I would be ok with him being retained, is because of all the dumbasses we've had as HC.