Eli lost his first 4 games and looked BAD

[OconRecon]

Eli's stats in his first 4 games:

 

Date Opp Result G GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck SckY Rate Att Yds Avg TD FUM Lost

11/21 ATL L 10-14 1 1 17 37 45.9 162 4.4 1 2 1 4 45.1

11/28 PHI L 6-27 1 1 6 21 28.6 148 7.0 0 2 5 37 16.9

12/05 @ WAS L 7-31 1 1 12 25 48.0 113 4.5 0 0 1 6 60.9

12/12 @ BAL L 14-37 1 1 4 18 22.2 27 1.5 0 2 2 9 0.0 1 0 11.1

 

So, that's 4 losses with a QB rating = 33.6. Now he's a Super Bowl QB and has a rating of 104 this season. Obviously, this doesn't mean Quinn will follow this path and most bust QB's probably started this way as well. However, giving a guy this few of games just doesn't make sense.

 

Oh, and look what we have here. In the Baltimore game, Manning goes 4/18 for 27 yards and a pick, gets pulled and Warner comes in and throws 3 INT's leads a TD drive. Who starts the next week? Manning. Warner goes back to the bench despite looking BETTER.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2004121201/2...avens#tab:watch

 

Come on Mangini, give it some time, stay with Quinn, and see if he can start to string drives together. He's looked terrible against 3 undefeated teams and the Browns are about the face a virtual 3-0 team in the Bengals (sans the fluke Denver TD). He was 6-8 and the other guy came in and heaved 3 pics. Stay the course and don't be such a nervous decision maker.

[ahitz3]

Thank you for providing a very insightful post. I happen to 100% agree with you on the situation. The only problem is, Eli had a more solid line for him and better offensive weapons. Hopefully our line steps it up a notch, because without that BQ won't ever have a chance. What do we have to lose? We already know how DA performs, so why take a step backwards.

[RestinPeace]

Eli was a rookie, on a bad team. Eli problems were also in the mind, Quinn's are in his throwing style. Quinn is not a rookie on bad team. The guy isn't any good, but you want to continue to believe

[BrownsKidd]

I don't believe the issue is with either QB. It's the coaching. The play calling and execution is atrocious. They bring in DA, and what do they do, first two plays are runs up the middle. Asinine after bringing in DA who's know to spread the field. But oh no...

 

And yes, who ever it is they need to let them play. There are a ton of examples of Good and Great QB's who had horrible rookie years... But look where they got with a solid team around them and smart draft choices....

[RestinPeace]

I don't believe the issue is with either QB. It's the coaching. The play calling and execution is atrocious. They bring in DA, and what do they do, first two plays are runs up the middle. Asinine after bringing in DA who's know to spread the field. But oh no...

 

And yes, who ever it is they need to let them play. There are a ton of examples of Good and Great QB's who had horrible rookie years... But look where they got with a solid team around them and smart draft choices....

 

Sorry, but your wrong. The QB's are a big part of the problem. The ooach's want BQ to miss MMass on a wide open TD.

[Guest AdaM]

Eli was a rookie, on a bad team. Eli problems were also in the mind, Quinn's are in his throwing style. Quinn is not a rookie on bad team. The guy isn't any good, but you want to continue to believe

 

 

 

Jesus, give it up douchebag.

[Legacy Fan]

Sorry, but your wrong. The QB's are a big part of the problem. The ooach's want BQ to miss MMass on a wide open TD.

Finally someone gets it. We need a QB that completes 100% of his passes. Somebody get Lerner on the phone.

[RestinPeace]

Jesus, give it up douchebag.

 

Then give up your group think mumbling: It is just the coach's whining. Pathetic.

[Guest AdaM]

Then give up your group think mumbling: It is just the coach's whining. Pathetic.

 

 

 

engrish prz?

[RestinPeace]

engrish prz?

 

eh, you want to learn English "ADA". To bad, you don't have the brain power to do so. Ah, did that hurt?

[BrownsKidd]

Sorry, but your wrong. The QB's are a big part of the problem. The ooach's want BQ to miss MMass on a wide open TD.

 

You have to admit the play calling has not been setting up the passing game at all... Sure the QB's have had mistakes... But even DA in his short time this year, with his ARM, was having to force throws, and taking a long time to try and find a receiver. because he was trying to get something done. When you consistently run running plays on 1st and 2nd and have to throw on 3rd and long, your setting yourself up for a rough game..

[Drunkandstoopid]

As of game 16 of Eli's 4th year of starting in the NFL, he didn't have a single season that could match DA's stats or win percentage he put up in his only full season of starts.... so you are recommending we give lots of time waiting around for a QB that hasn't put the ball in the endzone with any real frequency and has a 7-2 turnover to TD ratio just in case he might come around like Eli did in game 48 or so?

[Greythan]

Good call Danamal. He's on ignore. (Hell, I don't even have Lum on ignore because at least he's original.)

[mopaji]

Come on Mangini, give it some time, stay with Quinn, and see if he can start to string drives together. He's looked terrible against 3 undefeated teams and the Browns are about the face a virtual 3-0 team in the Bengals (sans the fluke Denver TD). He was 6-8 and the other guy came in and heaved 3 pics. Stay the course and don't be such a nervous decision maker.

 

 

As a well documented DA Backer/Brady Basher, I have to say I agree wth you 100%. They made the decision, now stick with it! Good or bad you gotta let him play it through. UNLESS, Mangini feels he is the only reason we aren't winning. But I think the benching was a disciplinary move rather than a permanent change.

 

 

 

[Gips]

Eli's stats in his first 4 games:

 

Date Opp Result G GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck SckY Rate Att Yds Avg TD FUM Lost

11/21 ATL L 10-14 1 1 17 37 45.9 162 4.4 1 2 1 4 45.1

11/28 PHI L 6-27 1 1 6 21 28.6 148 7.0 0 2 5 37 16.9

12/05 @ WAS L 7-31 1 1 12 25 48.0 113 4.5 0 0 1 6 60.9

12/12 @ BAL L 14-37 1 1 4 18 22.2 27 1.5 0 2 2 9 0.0 1 0 11.1

 

So, that's 4 losses with a QB rating = 33.6. Now he's a Super Bowl QB and has a rating of 104 this season. Obviously, this doesn't mean Quinn will follow this path and most bust QB's probably started this way as well. However, giving a guy this few of games just doesn't make sense.

 

Oh, and look what we have here. In the Baltimore game, Manning goes 4/18 for 27 yards and a pick, gets pulled and Warner comes in and throws 3 INT's leads a TD drive. Who starts the next week? Manning. Warner goes back to the bench despite looking BETTER.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2004121201/2...avens#tab:watch

 

Come on Mangini, give it some time, stay with Quinn, and see if he can start to string drives together. He's looked terrible against 3 undefeated teams and the Browns are about the face a virtual 3-0 team in the Bengals (sans the fluke Denver TD). He was 6-8 and the other guy came in and heaved 3 pics.

Stay the course and don't be such a nervous decision maker.

It wouldnt hurt if he would take quinns collar off and just let us see what he has...im not against sitting a player on the bench to reflect but i am against a coach who makes a commitment remakes it and then starts DA with full rights to a 4 WR set without first letting the starter roam free i was already pretty down on mangini but this finishes him up to me..

He violates his own code and discipline and tends to blame the players for bad coordination and playcalling instead of himself or the coordinators and that will not win fan support or player effort and im sure lerner isnt liking this mangini save my own ass first move to well either..

 

With that said mangini will start DA... Quinn is finished in cleveland without getting a fair shot and regardless of how bad DA does..

[lemosley01]

As of game 16 of Eli's 4th year of starting in the NFL, he didn't have a single season that could match DA's stats or win percentage he put up in his only full season of starts.... so you are recommending we give lots of time waiting around for a QB that hasn't put the ball in the endzone with any real frequency and has a 7-2 turnover to TD ratio just in case he might come around like Eli did in game 48 or so?

 

Nope. That's the same reason I recommend we dump Anderson. After all this time, he's still the same.

 

I don't know that I'd hang my hat on 'Quinn in his 5th start is as bad as Anderson after 27'

 

 

[Squintz]

Whatever comparisons you want to make, there is one BIG worry that I have about BQ:

 

This is the 2nd regime that has been very reluctant in putting him on the field. And when they do, they greatly limit where he throws the ball.

 

It worries me because why is NOBODY willing to show clear faith in this guy other than they honestly don't trust him as their QB?

 

One other note to consider is how poor route running is affecting his throws. Nobody really points this out, but our WRs are really crap.

[OconRecon]

As of game 16 of Eli's 4th year of starting in the NFL, he didn't have a single season that could match DA's stats or win percentage he put up in his only full season of starts.... so you are recommending we give lots of time waiting around for a QB that hasn't put the ball in the endzone with any real frequency and has a 7-2 turnover to TD ratio just in case he might come around like Eli did in game 48 or so?

 

1. DA statistically declined to the #32 QB in the NFL last year. You want to go back to him based on his '07 stats with '10 around the corner?

 

2. I thought Eli's leash was too long at the time. I'm not saying give Quinn the same leash, but at least half a season seems fair.

[Legacy Fan]

As of game 16 of Eli's 4th year of starting in the NFL, he didn't have a single season that could match DA's stats or win percentage he put up in his only full season of starts.... so you are recommending we give lots of time waiting around for a QB that hasn't put the ball in the endzone with any real frequency and has a 7-2 turnover to TD ratio just in case he might come around like Eli did in game 48 or so?

 

Right. Difference being, Eli got the G-Men to a game 17. And a game 18. Maybe you recall those games.

 

That's what we Quinnbots are hoping to compare - not some individual silly statline garbage. (yes, I know the OP contained stats, but his point was to show humble beginnings culminating in the SuperBowl victory due to leadership, and strong play)

 

Maybe you should follow Tennis.

[ballpeen]

Are we back on this....Manning was the real deal...I am afraid BQ is a poser.

 

Not to say he can't turn it around, but there really is little comparison between Quinn and the bad Manning.

[ballpeen]

Peen,

You really have gone off the deepend about Quinn to the point that long interceptions are more appealing to you then the maturation of a first round draft pick who actually wants to be here.

 

I can't say you are totally incorrect as there is some truth in that, though I don't think there is going to be much maturation. If BQ was a rookie, I might agree, but he is a vet. Maturation is between the ears and not so much what is done on the field.

 

That is the point you and a few others need to remember...this isn't a rookie QB, and play time has little to do with it.

 

[Drunkandstoopid]

1. DA statistically declined to the #32 QB in the NFL last year. You want to go back to him based on his '07 stats with '10 around the corner?

 

2. I thought Eli's leash was too long at the time. I'm not saying give Quinn the same leash, but at least half a season seems fair.

 

 

I thought Brady was pulled too soon the moment I heard it, figured a minimum 5 games, maybe up to bye week, was in order.

 

I still find it odd people use the Eli Manning argument to support sticking with him, while others were saying it wasn't valid for DA even prior to the '08 season.

 

My thinking is Mangini came in with the thought that DA had tons of potential, and that maybe he could coax Favre out of "retirement" (he has a standing offer to Favre to come in and help with the young QBs) thinking he had another season or two in him still if the bicep injury healed, with the thought that Favre, DA and Ratliff would make a pretty potent combo for a season or two while the younger kids learned from Favre. Minnesota openly wanting him screwed that up and he had to give Brady a shot to keep Lerner (who would have creamed his shorts if Mangini could bring in Favre) off his back.

 

He probably at some point said to Lerner that he really thought someone other than BQ (not necessarily DA, but someone with his arm and attitude) would be a better long term answer. I'm thining Lerner has some kind of thing for beating Baltimore more than any other team, cause failure to do so has caused 2 QB pulls in consecutive years.

[Guest Metcalf_FTW]

Yes...and in D.A.'s fourth start he threw for 5 touchdowns and put up over 50 points I believe.

[ballpeen]

I agree to a certain extent and im not nor can I defend the kid but this team is god awful in alot of areas and lets face it no matter who is under center this season doesnt have many options but you damn well know what DA brings to the table and im not wild about either guy right now but I have a hard time putting this teams record all on Quinns shoulders right now and he hasnt been handled very well by this team.

 

That may be Dan...I like you and will say this in closing...I think what is causing the bickering on the board is somewhat similar to arguing who is better....Terry Kirby or James Jackson?

 

One had to be better, but the guy on the winning end of the argument wouldn't have a lot of room to brag.

[Drunkandstoopid]

Right. Difference being, Eli got the G-Men to a game 17. And a game 18. Maybe you recall those games.

 

That's what we Quinnbots are hoping to compare - not some individual silly statline garbage. (yes, I know the OP contained stats, but his point was to show humble beginnings culminating in the SuperBowl victory due to leadership, and strong play)

 

Maybe you should follow Tennis.

It only took him 3 YEARS of missing the playoffs and one season of backing into the playoffs in '07, with no more wins than DA that year, to get to the playoffs.

 

Go ahead and be happy with Quinn leading the Browns to an 0 and 16 record with 4 or 5 TDs over the season, and maybe he'll get to the playoffs in 4 years. The only QB in recent Browns history to get 10 wins, with a team that hasn't won that many games total over several seasons without him, is sitting on the bench.

[RedDawg]

Nice post. Eli didn't have a few bad games, he had many bad games, and he didn't actually get any good until their superbowl season. Manning stopped throwing interceptions, and his team took care of the rest.

 

It's perfectly valid to compare Quinn or many other QB's to Eli. He's simply an average QB in regard to his ability, but his franchise stuck with him and he eventually had his epiphany.

 

I bet Bernie is glad the Old Browns stuck with him.

[medicineman]

Without getting people mad at me I just want to say I have not been impressed with Quinn at all! Im not defending the interception machine Im just saying we have no reliable qb. Im not ok with giving Quinn a free pass because he is young. As far as comparing qb's goes there are a few rookies out there that had great seasons so don't sit there and say Eli this or Tom Brady that there is NO EXCUSE for our team always getting the shit stomped out of them.

[Legacy Fan]

It only took him 3 YEARS of missing the playoffs and one season of backing into the playoffs in '07, with no more wins than DA that year, to get to the playoffs.

 

Go ahead and be happy with Quinn leading the Browns to an 0 and 16 record with 4 or 5 TDs over the season, and maybe he'll get to the playoffs in 4 years. The only QB in recent Browns history to get 10 wins, with a team that hasn't won that many games total over several seasons without him, is sitting on the bench.

Again with the same tired Straw Man. Please point to one post (mine or anyone but Playground's) that would even begin to suggest we are content let alone happy with Quinn's performance this year.

 

And when you get tired of staring at the number 0, go here to cool off:

Roger Federer Fan Site

[medicineman]

I just want us to win! And I hate excuses!

[OconRecon]

...I bet Bernie is glad the Old Browns stuck with him.

 

For the record, Bernie's first year was pretty average. Rating of 69, 50% completions, 8 TD's, 7 INT's and 19 sacks. In his second year of play, he took off.

 

I get Quinn's ceiling maybe at the Rick Mirer level, but I'm saying it's just too soon to make that call.

 

He's definitely not a true rookie. He's definitely not a "3-year vet" as if he's had a lot of game play. He may be somewhat rusty if anything.

 

I think we can all agree he better put together some drives soon, if it's not too late. The excuses of tough competition, lack of this support and that support will only last so long. Again, I'd say they'd last half a season at most. The schedule isn't getting any easier with the Bengals, Steelers, Packers, Bears and Ravens in the next 6 weeks. That's the NFL.