Mangini: Worst coaching hire ever?

[Chicopee John]

 

 

If Brett Favre's a fan, does that say good or bad things about Eric Mangini's likeability?

 

 

I haven't come up with a new word for a while, so I want to throw one out there .. the word is "fanbole" (pronounced FAN-buh-lee).

 

The definition is simply: A sweeping, exaggerated and often ludicrous sports statement that a fan makes when under the influence of an emotional sports event (and perhaps various substances).

 

If you see a shortstop make a diving stop and throw out a runner, you might say: "That's the greatest play I have ever seen." That would be a fanbole. It might be the greatest play you ever saw, but it probably isn't. In that moment, it feels that way.

 

If you see the Kansas City Chiefs give up against the Philadelphia Eagles like they did on Sunday, you might say: "This is the worst football team in the history of the NFL." That too would be a fanbole. The Chiefs are terrible, but they are probably not the worst team in NFL history. Probably not.

 

You call a player the worst ever, a coach a genius, a general manager an idiot -- these are probably fanboles.

 

But one of the fun things about a fanbole is that sometimes, after uttering one (or tweeting one), you will find that after you think about it for a while -- hey, you know what? -- you ACTUALLY BELIEVE IT.

 

I recently tweeted this:

 

"Another one of those fan maybe-overstatement-maybe-not thoughts: Eric Mangini was the worst NFL head coach hire in 25 years."

 

Now, I'll admit -- that's pure fanbole. I cannot stand what Eric Mangini has done to the Browns, the team of my childhood. I cannot stand the lack of respect he has shown for the team's history, the Mickey Mouse game he plays with quarterbacks, the amazing knack he has for getting his players to not play hard for him or the stupid fines he hands out like he's Principal Vernon from "The Breakfast Club." Don't mess with the bull, young man, you'll get the horns.

 

But here's the thing: Based on the Twitter responses I've seen ... I'm actually starting to believe that I'm right. I'm actually starting to believe that Mangini really was the worst head coach hire in 25 years. The responses have mostly been to list other coaches who were worse hires than Mangini. But you know what? I don't think any of those hires WERE worse than Mangini. Remember:

 

1. Mangini had just been fired in New York, where he had done a terrible job. He had a losing record. His team had collapsed down the stretch, he had alienated his players, he was a pain in the neck to deal with. Point is: He'd already PROVEN how much damage he could do as a coach.

 

2. He came right out of the school of Bill Belichick ... and that didn't work THE FIRST TIME in Cleveland. It seems to me that Cleveland is a working-class town and Browns fans want a working-class coach -- not some pompous know-it-all who doesn't feel like he should have to explain to the commoners what he's doing.

 

3. What had he ever done to convince anyone he could be a head coach in the first place? Why, because he was a defensive coordinator for the Patriots under Belichick for one season? The Browns had JUST HIRED Romeo Crennel, who was ALSO defensive coordinator under Belichick. Attention Cleveland Browns owners, here's a good hint: BILL BELICHICK IS HIS OWN DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR.

 

4. Basically the first thing Mangini did -- first thing -- was have them tear down a mural of great Cleveland Browns players on the wall in the Browns offices. Now, there are differing opinions about what really happened, whose fault it really was, does it all matter, etc. You know what? The Cleveland Browns have never been to a Super Bowl. Never. Not one. But Browns fans still have a whole lot of pride. Browns fans grow up on a glorious history. If you allow something stupid like that to happen on your watch ... just a horrendous hire.

 

Now, here is a partial list of hires Twitter people think were worse than Mangini ... and why I disagree*:

 

*And remember: I'm talking about WORST HIRES, not necessarily WORST COACHES. Sometimes what seems like a good hire can turn disastrous. And sometimes what seems like a bad hire turns out well. We're talking specifically about the decision to hire Mangini here.

 

• Art Shell (Oakland): Admittedly this was a dreadful hire ... but there's no way it comes close to Mangini. Shell is a Raiders legend, a Hall of Famer player, who was also the first African American coach in the NFL (well, second, going back to Fritz Pollard in the 1920s). He actually coached the Raiders to three playoff appearances in five years in his first stint. True, when the Raiders hired him the second time he clearly had lost his coaching marbles ... but there's no way that's as bad a hire as Mangini.

 

• Jim Zorn (Washington): Well ... maybe. The whole process of hiring Zorn was nutty, and it's pretty clear he was overmatched. But Jim Zorn was a fine and fun quarterback, so at least he had that going for him. Plus he had not just been fired as a head coach.

 

• Bobby Petrino (Atlanta): This turned out to be a disastrous hire ... but I don't think it was considered bad at the time. Petrino was one of the hottest names in college football.

 

• Raheem Morris (Tampa Bay): Whew, yeah, that's a bad hire. But, again, at least he was hired from within and he had not just been canned.

 

• Steve Spurrier (Washington): No way. Not even close. Spurrier turned out to be a horrible NFL coach, but the hire itself was exciting and had every chance to work. NFL teams were falling over each other to hire Spurrier as a head coach. This isn't even in the same ballpark as the Mangini hire.

 

• Tom Cable (Oakland): The Raiders should have their own category when it comes to terrible NFL coach hires. But even this hire to me is not as insulting and infuriating as the Mangini hire. I mean, everyone in New York -- players, fans, media members, everyone -- DESPISED Mangini. I mean, I'm still wondering who in New York Mangini could have put down as a reference.

 

• Rich Kotite (New York Jets): Well, this hire has many of the same problems as the Mangini hire -- Kotite had just been canned, nobody liked him, and so on. But at least Kotite was a New Yorker who had played in the NFL and he had a winning record as a coach. This WAS bad ... I think Mangini was worse.

 

• Scott Linehan (St. Louis): Bad hire, of course, but he was a longtime assistant coach who had success in various other places. He'd coached in high school, in college, he was offensive coordinator for the Vikings and Dolphins. I don't think the hire itself compares to Mangini, though I certainly feel the Rams fans pain of having to endure two and a half seasons with him as coach.

 

• Marty Mornhinweg (Detroit): He was considered a bright young coordinator when the Lions hired him -- and he's offensive coordinator for the Eagles now. Plus, he lasted two years with the Lions (long enough to elect to kick off in overtime). I really don't think Mangini will last the season.

 

 

 

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writ...s#ixzz0Sb4HETDK

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[Guest AdaM]

2 or 3 posts below this one

 

http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7284

[OconRecon]

Mort on Twitter:

 

mortreport: Mike & Mike, comparing Belichick & Mangini, said Belichick changed. Don't agree. He was 5-11 1st year in NE. Only thing changed was winning.

9 minutes ago from web

 

http://twitter.com/mortreport

 

 

So, NE took our leftovers, stuck with him through a 5 win season, and they are where they are today. Hmmmm.

[hammertime]

I'm going to go out on limb an actually support Mangini and Lerner.

 

I refuse to be a miserble human being and second guess every decision made by the Browns.

 

My only expertise is in areas other than the NFL management, so my opinions are soley that.

 

 

I don't like how the Browns are viewed right now, but i'm disgusted with the media trying run a guy out of town after 3 games.

Mangini is far from the worst hire, you would think that he had an outline of items and issues that needed to be addressed in order to bring the Browns back to NFL minimum standards at least. This won't happen overnight. We can point fingers at just about everybody and be somewhat right. But there is no conspiracy to sabotage the Browns, the players need to perform on game day.

 

If that means our QB needs to adjust his skillset to Dabolls playcalling so be it.

Million dollar atheletes have to answer to someone and those who don't can hit the road.

There has got to be structured leadership, and the leadership needs to be respected, not questioned. No i'm not a season ticket holder and the only thing i have vested in being a fan is my time and cash for the games i do attend. But when you look at the big picture, it's still just a game. If we lasted as long as we did with RAC can this be any worse?

[Gips]

I'm going to go out on limb an actually support Mangini and Lerner.

 

I refuse to be a miserble human being and second guess every decision made by the Browns.

 

My only expertise is in areas other than the NFL management, so my opinions are soley that.

 

 

I don't like how the Browns are viewed right now, but i'm disgusted with the media trying run a guy out of town after 3 games.

Mangini is far from the worst hire, you would think that he had an outline of items and issues that needed to be addressed in order to bring the Browns back to NFL minimum standards at least. This won't happen overnight. We can point fingers at just about everybody and be somewhat right. But there is no conspiracy to sabotage the Browns, the players need to perform on game day.

 

If that means our QB needs to adjust his skillset to Dabolls playcalling so be it.

Million dollar atheletes have to answer to someone and those who don't can hit the road.

There has got to be structured leadership, and the leadership needs to be respected, not questioned. No i'm not a season ticket holder and the only thing i have vested in being a fan is my time and cash for the games i do attend. But when you look at the big picture, it's still just a game. If we lasted as long as we did with RAC can this be any worse?

To each his own hammer i will not support this owner anymore and i wont be a miserable human being for second guessing this crackpot that inherited the team and the bad regimes he has let squander it...

 

The way i look at is if people dont stand up and quit supporting this bum nothing is going to change if the fans dont at minimal make it clear to lerner by lower revenues and low attendence that we want real change then 10 years from now its likely the browns will have either not been to the playoffs or only made it once to the first round...

 

As far as dabolls playcalling goes that seems to have been exclusively for bq i would love to see DA or even payton manning get roped into that scheme with any success..

Im not for giving mangini another minute longer to prove himself than he gave bq before throwing him under the bus and blaming him for dabolls worthless scheme unless he owns up to his own accountability and discipline rules i will enjoy watching DA rid us of yet another regime that believes moving the ball the other direction is the way to go and watching this team quit like they would never have done on rac

 

How do you get your players to trust you when you dont even follow or own up to your own creed?

You dont..

How can you keep your job without player or fan support?

You cant...

[Chip Banks]

3. What had he ever done to convince anyone he could be a head coach in the first place? Why, because he was a defensive coordinator for the Patriots under Belichick for one season? The Browns had JUST HIRED Romeo Crennel, who was ALSO defensive coordinator under Belichick. Attention Cleveland Browns owners, here's a good hint: BILL BELICHICK IS HIS OWN DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR.[/b]

 

 

Man ain't that the truth. I said it in another thread that Belichick is not interested in creating a coaching tree or equipping his assistants to be coaches one day. Again I hate to say it but Rich and G H O O L I E did get this one right, everybody under Belichick is nothing more than a coffee fetcher.

 

When will Lerner get it through his thick skull to stop hiring BB castoffs?

 

Wait a minute, wasn't Belichick the worst coach hire EVER in this town at one point?

 

Three games. A horrid roster. Two QBs that Savage drafted in his run of Redman, Boller, Josh Harris, Derek Anderson, Trent Dilfer, Charlie Frye, Brady Quinn, Ken Dorsey run of QB evaluation incompetence?

 

Let me get this straight. We have a player's coach who a team can't win for and we bring in a BBesque prick and now the speculation is the players will not play for him. And this is the COACH's problem????

 

Who the hell on this roster thinks he has the kind of talent to put out tape that shows he is a quitter and will have a second chance with any other team? The list is pretty short. If the other guys would rather sell insurance, I'd welcome their career change.

 

Three games. BB had a much better roster when he took over the Patriots, lost his first 4 games, and went 5-11 in his first season. We beat them in our second year off expansion, at which point they had a record of 2-8! I remember reading and hearing the brilliant football minds in Cleveland media and fandom saying "good old BB" what an idiot Kraft is for giving that loser a second chance. Dig down and admit to yourself if you were one of those astute football minds.

 

Mangini has to reverse a culture. He came in with a terrible roster, virtually no draft picks, two below average QBs, and looming salary cap problems. He inherited a "starting" QB who didn't have the support of the roster as evidenced by the Smith incident. His #2 receiver (who isn't very good) killed a guy the day after he got his roster bonus. The only run-blocking offensive lineman that he inherited that can move a pile (Tucker) turned out not to be all in physically or mentally). Now people are ready to hang him after 3 games? Against teams that are a combined 9-0.

 

Typical knee-jerk Cleveland fan reaction.

 

Let's tell ourselves that Bernie's skill hadn't really diminished and forget the fact that when Marino got injured the nest season with Bernie as the back-up the Dolphins immediately made a trade for a so-so backup QB to start ahead of Bernie. Let's pretend that Vinny "Intercepteverde" didn't have some really good (pro bowl -worthy) years with Jets. Let's forget that BB pulled a similar move in NE in keeping the popular Bledsoe on the bench in favor of Brady. Let's pretend that BB wasn't ridiculed when he said that he doesn't believe in drafting QBs high and sacrificing time developing them for some other team (ummmm . . . . Brady, Cassell). BB does everything he did as a Browns coach now, but let's delude ourselves and go with the line that he learned from his mistakes so we can justify having called the guy a bum.

 

Remember how Arians was holding back the great Tim Couch? We could never win with him as our O-coordinator. Between Arians and BB, we're now what 5 SB victories removed.

 

Remember how Jeff Garcia was so horrible that no team could win with him? Hmmm. Was that two pro bowls and a fantastic playoff run ago?

 

One thing I've learned from being a Browns fan is that media sentiment and the fan reaction that usually follows has an uncanny knack of being proven ridiculously wrong.

 

I'm going with the odds on this one. I'm not backing this ridiculous excuse for a roster of players. That they can't make a tackle or get off a block is not Mangini's fault -- at least until he keeps them on the roster after he's had a chance to turn it over.

[Solon16]

Great post chip....really, BUT, to your point.....("""""Mangini has to reverse a culture. He came in with a terrible roster, virtually no draft picks, two below average QBs, and looming salary cap problems."""") and (he's had a chance to turn it over.) I agree, BUT, I look at what happened in this last draft and it scares the FKN crap out of me....a Center with the first pick? there's no doubt you(EM) are telling everyone that I'm(em) building a foundation here in Cleveland But a center??? He better be all fkn world for the next ten years!!! ......I'm truly not hopeful that this year's draft picks will do much.... which brings me to my biggest fear...what he'll do in next year's draft.

[bonedawg]

Wait a minute, wasn't Belichick the worst coach hire EVER in this town at one point?

 

Three games. A horrid roster. Two QBs that Savage drafted in his run of Redman, Boller, Josh Harris, Derek Anderson, Trent Dilfer, Charlie Frye, Brady Quinn, Ken Dorsey run of QB evaluation incompetence?

 

Let me get this straight. We have a player's coach who a team can't win for and we bring in a BBesque prick and now the speculation is the players will not play for him. And this is the COACH's problem????

 

Who the hell on this roster thinks he has the kind of talent to put out tape that shows he is a quitter and will have a second chance with any other team? The list is pretty short. If the other guys would rather sell insurance, I'd welcome their career change.

 

Three games. BB had a much better roster when he took over the Patriots, lost his first 4 games, and went 5-11 in his first season. We beat them in our second year off expansion, at which point they had a record of 2-8! I remember reading and hearing the brilliant football minds in Cleveland media and fandom saying "good old BB" what an idiot Kraft is for giving that loser a second chance. Dig down and admit to yourself if you were one of those astute football minds.

 

Mangini has to reverse a culture. He came in with a terrible roster, virtually no draft picks, two below average QBs, and looming salary cap problems. He inherited a "starting" QB who didn't have the support of the roster as evidenced by the Smith incident. His #2 receiver (who isn't very good) killed a guy the day after he got his roster bonus. The only run-blocking offensive lineman that he inherited that can move a pile (Tucker) turned out not to be all in physically or mentally). Now people are ready to hang him after 3 games? Against teams that are a combined 9-0.

 

Typical knee-jerk Cleveland fan reaction.

 

Let's tell ourselves that Bernie's skill hadn't really diminished and forget the fact that when Marino got injured the nest season with Bernie as the back-up the Dolphins immediately made a trade for a so-so backup QB to start ahead of Bernie. Let's pretend that Vinny "Intercepteverde" didn't have some really good (pro bowl -worthy) years with Jets. Let's forget that BB pulled a similar move in NE in keeping the popular Bledsoe on the bench in favor of Brady. Let's pretend that BB wasn't ridiculed when he said that he doesn't believe in drafting QBs high and sacrificing time developing them for some other team (ummmm . . . . Brady, Cassell). BB does everything he did as a Browns coach now, but let's delude ourselves and go with the line that he learned from his mistakes so we can justify having called the guy a bum.

 

Remember how Arians was holding back the great Tim Couch? We could never win with him as our O-coordinator. Between Arians and BB, we're now what 5 SB victories removed.

 

Remember how Jeff Garcia was so horrible that no team could win with him? Hmmm. Was that two pro bowls and a fantastic playoff run ago?

 

One thing I've learned from being a Browns fan is that media sentiment and the fan reaction that usually follows has an uncanny knack of being proven ridiculously wrong.

 

I'm going with the odds on this one. I'm not backing this ridiculous excuse for a roster of players. That they can't make a tackle or get off a block is not Mangini's fault -- at least until he keeps them on the roster after he's had a chance to turn it over.

 

Congrats Chip, you just owned 95% of people complaining on this board, myself included.

[Solon16]

Wait a minute, wasn't Belichick the worst coach hire EVER in this town at one point?

 

Three games. A horrid roster. Two QBs that Savage drafted in his run of Redman, Boller, Josh Harris, Derek Anderson, Trent Dilfer, Charlie Frye, Brady Quinn, Ken Dorsey run of QB evaluation incompetence?

 

Let me get this straight. We have a player's coach who a team can't win for and we bring in a BBesque prick and now the speculation is the players will not play for him. And this is the COACH's problem????

 

Who the hell on this roster thinks he has the kind of talent to put out tape that shows he is a quitter and will have a second chance with any other team? The list is pretty short. If the other guys would rather sell insurance, I'd welcome their career change.

 

Three games. BB had a much better roster when he took over the Patriots, lost his first 4 games, and went 5-11 in his first season. We beat them in our second year off expansion, at which point they had a record of 2-8! I remember reading and hearing the brilliant football minds in Cleveland media and fandom saying "good old BB" what an idiot Kraft is for giving that loser a second chance. Dig down and admit to yourself if you were one of those astute football minds.

 

Mangini has to reverse a culture. He came in with a terrible roster, virtually no draft picks, two below average QBs, and looming salary cap problems. He inherited a "starting" QB who didn't have the support of the roster as evidenced by the Smith incident. His #2 receiver (who isn't very good) killed a guy the day after he got his roster bonus. The only run-blocking offensive lineman that he inherited that can move a pile (Tucker) turned out not to be all in physically or mentally). Now people are ready to hang him after 3 games? Against teams that are a combined 9-0.

 

Typical knee-jerk Cleveland fan reaction.

 

Let's tell ourselves that Bernie's skill hadn't really diminished and forget the fact that when Marino got injured the nest season with Bernie as the back-up the Dolphins immediately made a trade for a so-so backup QB to start ahead of Bernie. Let's pretend that Vinny "Intercepteverde" didn't have some really good (pro bowl -worthy) years with Jets. Let's forget that BB pulled a similar move in NE in keeping the popular Bledsoe on the bench in favor of Brady. Let's pretend that BB wasn't ridiculed when he said that he doesn't believe in drafting QBs high and sacrificing time developing them for some other team (ummmm . . . . Brady, Cassell). BB does everything he did as a Browns coach now, but let's delude ourselves and go with the line that he learned from his mistakes so we can justify having called the guy a bum.

 

Remember how Arians was holding back the great Tim Couch? We could never win with him as our O-coordinator. Between Arians and BB, we're now what 5 SB victories removed.

 

Remember how Jeff Garcia was so horrible that no team could win with him? Hmmm. Was that two pro bowls and a fantastic playoff run ago?

 

One thing I've learned from being a Browns fan is that media sentiment and the fan reaction that usually follows has an uncanny knack of being proven ridiculously wrong.

 

I'm going with the odds on this one. I'm not backing this ridiculous excuse for a roster of players. That they can't make a tackle or get off a block is not Mangini's fault -- at least until he keeps them on the roster after he's had a chance to turn it over.

 

 

From Pluto:

When will we begin to see some production from high picks such as Brian Robiskie, Mohamed Massaquoi and David Veikune? They were selected No. 36, No. 50 and No. 52. At least two of them should be receiving something resembling regular duty for a team that is constantly 4-12.

 

Fans have been howling about the success of Mark Sanchez with the Jets. Maybe he would be playing well had the Browns kept the fifth pick. But since 1999, this franchise has yet to prove it can support any quarterback.

 

Which brings up Mangini’s reluctance to settle on a quarterback.

 

Brady Quinn was benched after 10 quarters. Derek Anderson played the second half of the 34-3 loss at Baltimore, and threw three interceptions.

 

This is the guy Drafting for our Future....I have to question his evaluation process(to say the LEAST)

[AZBrowns]

Every guy Lerner hires is tthe worst hiring ever.... It's been proven in lab studies.

[Vegasdogg]

Wait a minute, wasn't Belichick the worst coach hire EVER in this town at one point?

 

.........

That was a great post, and I'm guilty of most of what you talked about. BUT, Mangini is not BB. My concern is his choices of coaches. He picked a DC who has a history of being run on, and a green OC to oversee a QB competition. Then he drags rookies off on a bus ride for a camp that he flew to (yeah he took the bus home,) than he goes all hocus pocus on the QB competition (all part of the 'process',) then he gets grilled for fining players the maximum, and now he goes back on his word and yanks the QB.

 

He passed up a pretty rabid LB (Malauga) for a WR (Robo) that seemingly isn't as good as the WR he took next (MoMass), and neither have contributed. I agree with getting value for KW, but Robert Royal sucks.

 

When you come to a team like the Browns, you're supposed to improve things, not make them worse. This team is not better off than last season, I can clearly see that. The QB is the least of my worries. Crap OL on the right, can't stop the run or run the ball, give up tons of yards.....

 

I mean really, what has changed for the better? Players aren't stealing Pepsi from the hotel rooms?

[Chip Banks]

Good responses. Look, I'm not saying that I like what I see. I liked the draft day strategy, but the Mack and Robiskie picks are scaring me. Venkuine has a motor but he looked like he'll struggle mightily if he's forced to cover anyone. I like Davis, Maiva and Francies, though. Let's judge the passing on ReyRey and such for a few years. I seem to remember Cincy drafting a high risk LBer or two that looked like a genius move in the first year and not so much in the second. And we didn't draft Crabtree!

 

I can't say that I'm real impressed with the free agent class. But 3 games into the season I'm not going to declare disaster and pin it on Mangini.

 

What I refuse do accept is an argument that we should even consider whether any player has quit on Mangini after three games as an indictment of Mangini. Flat out, I don't want that guy on the team that I support and it's a shame that Mangini or any coach would inherit such a "player".

 

A lot of people in the media seemed to have a hard on for Mangini and smell blood. But it's way too early to help them pile on this guy. People seem to become their opinions even if they are formed hastily.

 

Pulling Quinn is not gross mismanagement. People act like a young QB is some fragile piece of glass artwork. Great QBs have had to battle for their jobs in the past. Aikman/Walsh comes to mind. Kurt Warner wasn't just handed a job. Drew Brees flourished when the team tried to kick him to the curb. Numerous coddled QBs have failed: Carr and Harrington come immediately to mind. Maybe the Cardinals should have given Leinert more time to struggle? Closer to home . . . was a developing Brian Sipe coddled? If Quinn is Aikman he'll win the war even if he's lost a battle. Coaches and teammates will see qualities in him even in losses that will win their trust. If he's Walsh he'll complain that the war should have ended when he won his first battle. Confidence comes from within . . . it can't be manufactured. In a winner it can't be easily destroyed.

 

Like every other player on the field, it is Quinn's job to earn the coach's trust -- not just to win a QB competition by default. Or be handed a job due to draft status.

 

With respect to the rest of the roster, Mangini has to evaluate the veterans on this team before he turns to getting the rookies their needed experience. It's just impossible to turn over an entire roster in a year or even two, so he needs to identify his keepers before he just turns PT over to rookies. You need to see it in games, not practice. The vets look to be accelerating that window, though. I expect that we'll see more Robiskie, Venkunie, Maiava, Davis, MassMo and Francies beginning after the bye week. I think we need to give it at least to the end of the year to even start talking about this year's draft busts.

 

Tucker's landing on the IR coupled with the early-season injury to Hadnot are not injuries that this team was deep enough to absorb. If you had said that we'd see Fraley playing right guard in week 2, we'd all know there was a problem. But if history tells us anything, it will be that Mangini will look to address this next season from the inside out. I do trust that.

 

Lerner needs to help Koki and Mangini by getting them the best scouts money can buy to make hey with those high picks we'll have next year. If we still have the guy that scouted the Big 12 for Savage, he needs to be the first to go.

[RestinPeace]

There is nothing to be scared about the Mack pick. He is developing as expected. The G's around him aren't the best, but you gotta start somewhere.

 

Now Robiskie on the otherhand........Remember, it was MMass that was supposed to be the "bad" pick.

[mopaji]

Wait a minute, wasn't Belichick the worst coach hire EVER in this town at one point?

 

Three games. A horrid roster. Two QBs that Savage drafted in his run of Redman, Boller, Josh Harris, Derek Anderson, Trent Dilfer, Charlie Frye, Brady Quinn, Ken Dorsey run of QB evaluation incompetence?

 

Let me get this straight. We have a player's coach who a team can't win for and we bring in a BBesque prick and now the speculation is the players will not play for him. And this is the COACH's problem????

 

Who the hell on this roster thinks he has the kind of talent to put out tape that shows he is a quitter and will have a second chance with any other team? The list is pretty short. If the other guys would rather sell insurance, I'd welcome their career change.

 

Three games. BB had a much better roster when he took over the Patriots, lost his first 4 games, and went 5-11 in his first season. We beat them in our second year off expansion, at which point they had a record of 2-8! I remember reading and hearing the brilliant football minds in Cleveland media and fandom saying "good old BB" what an idiot Kraft is for giving that loser a second chance. Dig down and admit to yourself if you were one of those astute football minds.

 

Mangini has to reverse a culture. He came in with a terrible roster, virtually no draft picks, two below average QBs, and looming salary cap problems. He inherited a "starting" QB who didn't have the support of the roster as evidenced by the Smith incident. His #2 receiver (who isn't very good) killed a guy the day after he got his roster bonus. The only run-blocking offensive lineman that he inherited that can move a pile (Tucker) turned out not to be all in physically or mentally). Now people are ready to hang him after 3 games? Against teams that are a combined 9-0.

 

Typical knee-jerk Cleveland fan reaction.

 

Let's tell ourselves that Bernie's skill hadn't really diminished and forget the fact that when Marino got injured the nest season with Bernie as the back-up the Dolphins immediately made a trade for a so-so backup QB to start ahead of Bernie. Let's pretend that Vinny "Intercepteverde" didn't have some really good (pro bowl -worthy) years with Jets. Let's forget that BB pulled a similar move in NE in keeping the popular Bledsoe on the bench in favor of Brady. Let's pretend that BB wasn't ridiculed when he said that he doesn't believe in drafting QBs high and sacrificing time developing them for some other team (ummmm . . . . Brady, Cassell). BB does everything he did as a Browns coach now, but let's delude ourselves and go with the line that he learned from his mistakes so we can justify having called the guy a bum.

 

Remember how Arians was holding back the great Tim Couch? We could never win with him as our O-coordinator. Between Arians and BB, we're now what 5 SB victories removed.

 

Remember how Jeff Garcia was so horrible that no team could win with him? Hmmm. Was that two pro bowls and a fantastic playoff run ago?

 

One thing I've learned from being a Browns fan is that media sentiment and the fan reaction that usually follows has an uncanny knack of being proven ridiculously wrong.

 

I'm going with the odds on this one. I'm not backing this ridiculous excuse for a roster of players. That they can't make a tackle or get off a block is not Mangini's fault -- at least until he keeps them on the roster after he's had a chance to turn it over.

 

 

AMAZING!!!!

 

But do you know why this essay will never work Chip Banks? Because it will end the conversation. And then what would WKNR do all day? What would half of the drunks on this board sitting at home do? Sure they would still have porn in one browser window, but what about the other? Fantasy football? Madden tips? Yahoo messenger? We need these conversations!!

 

I refuse to believe that Mangini is an idiot. It is far more likely that he knows WAAAAY more than any of us (except chip banks) and we should shut up and wait. This roster needs completely flipped and that is only the beginning. It's going to be really funny when he changes the uniforms. Firing a coach is not a quick fix and has yet to work throughout all remembered time. 5 year minimum through thick and thin, 5 year minimum.

 

 

[lemosley01]

AMAZING!!!!

I refuse to believe that Mangini is an idiot. It is far more likely that he knows WAAAAY more than any of us (except chip banks) and we should shut up and wait. This roster needs completely flipped and that is only the beginning. It's going to be really funny when he changes the uniforms. Firing a coach is not a quick fix and has yet to work throughout all remembered time. 5 year minimum through thick and thin, 5 year minimum.

 

Do you think RAC would have had a good season this year? When you look at RACs record, what looks like an anomaly and what looks normal.

 

The Saints, Falcons, 49ers, Cardinals, etc, etc, etc all disagree with you.

[Vegasdogg]

I'm sorry but when I think of changing a culture I think of Singletary in SF, of Gruden in OAK, Parcells just about everywhere he goes, Vermiel in STL, ect....

 

Like when you see a QB after 3 games and think maybe he isn't a playmaker? I'm like that with coaches. We have Gruden, Holmgren, Shanahan all sitting on the sideline.

 

I worry because everything Jets fans warned us about is kind of coming true.

[yosemitejam]

1995 expansion teams: Carolina and Jax

 

1996 Carolina NFC West champion

 

1996 JAX advances to AFC Championship game

 

Allowing "seasons" for a coach and/or a pro team to "jell" or "develope" is rhetorical BS that fans use to comfort their misery while continuing to support their team......

 

Coaching technicians and player talent are ALWAYS AVAILABLE...

 

Teams need the knowledge to ID the talent AND an OWNER who is willing to SPEND to obtain the best available coaching/players....

 

Sadly the Browns have been woefully deficient in both these factors needed to field competetive teams year in and year out.......

 

Lerner is out of his league and I am afraid that he again has demonstrated this fact with the weak sister, mangooey hire..

 

We all know what must occur for the Browns to regain their lost glory..

[BrownB499]

The fact is this franchise was reborn on a foundation of quick sand

 

it's swallowed up every coach,every gm ,every player that's come in contact with it

 

You can blame that on Carmon Policy, Al Lerner or Dwight Clark they all had a hand in fcking this franchise up from the start

 

I can't stand Mangini,but firing him would only continue to add to the misery that this organization has become and rightfully

place us at the bottom BELOW the Detroits and Oaklands of the NFL

 

One thing we know from the Stealers is that stability leads to success

 

One thing we know from the Raiders,and the Lions is that constant turnover equals failure

 

As much as I dislike Mangini ,it's apparent to me that

 

A) While he lacks personality I don't believe he's an idiot (like Crennel)

 

B)The man is obsessive about his work,and won't stop until he finds the answer he's looking for

 

C) The pained look on his face on Sundays tell me he hates losing as much as we do

 

Unfortunately ,we're going to have to suffer while this man finishes the job Slo Lerner hired him to do,

that means its going to get worse before it gets better

[Chip Banks]

1995 expansion teams: Carolina and Jax

 

1996 Carolina NFC West champion

 

1996 JAX advances to AFC Championship game

 

I guarantee you that if Mangini or any other coach in the NFL could pick between taking over the Browns roster, the dearth of draft picks we had, and our cap situation that they would take an expansion draft, a fresh start under the salary cap to sign free agents, and a fully-stocked draft with sandwich picks in a New York minute.

[yosemitejam]

I guarantee you that if Mangini or any other coach in the NFL could pick between taking over the Browns roster, the dearth of draft picks we had, and our cap situation that they would take an expansion draft, a fresh start under the salary cap to sign free agents, and a fully-stocked draft with sandwich picks in a New York minute.

 

 

roger that chipper

[Guest Masters]

1995 expansion teams: Carolina and Jax

 

1996 Carolina NFC West champion

 

1996 JAX advances to AFC Championship game

 

I am assuming you realize both of those teams got an expansion draft off of NFL rosters and as well as 2 picks in the 1st round of the draft. No expansion team has had either of those benefits since then.

[mopaji]

Do you think RAC would have had a good season this year? When you look at RACs record, what looks like an anomaly and what looks normal.

 

The Saints, Falcons, 49ers, Cardinals, etc, etc, etc all disagree with you.

 

 

I'm not saying hiring a new coach doesn't work, I'm saying in OUR situation we cannot afford to swap staffs every two years. That "identity" we are all looking for leaves before it ever gets established.

 

Saints - Brees, Colston, Bush, Moore, Henderson, Shockey

Falcons - Turner, Ryan, Jenkins

49ers- we'll see

Cardinals - Warner, Boldin, Fitz, now Beanie

Browns - DA/BQ, Lewis, Edwards...you get the point.

[ClevelandFanForLife]

Bump, just to get the gay love fest threads off the top of the list.

speaking of gay love fest threads: doesn't brady look super cute with his hair in his eyes?

[lemosley01]

I'm not saying hiring a new coach doesn't work, I'm saying in OUR situation we cannot afford to swap staffs every two years. That "identity" we are all looking for leaves before it ever gets established.

 

Saints - Brees, Colston, Bush, Moore, Henderson, Shockey

Falcons - Turner, Ryan, Jenkins

49ers- we'll see

Cardinals - Warner, Boldin, Fitz, now Beanie

Browns - DA/BQ, Lewis, Edwards...you get the point.

 

5 years is ridiculous. You'll know in TWO if the coach you have is worth continuing with or not.

 

If this teams looks at the end of the season like it does now, Mangini is not it. The Dolphins dumped Cameron after 1 season. Do you think they made the wrong decision?

 

Continuing with a mistake is a bigger mistake than cutting bait. All it means is you are that much further away from the turnaround.

 

5 years is xxxxing ridiculous. I suppose you're all for giving Anderson 5 years, too?

[mopaji]

5 years is ridiculous. You'll know in TWO if the coach you have is worth continuing with or not.

 

 

If this teams looks at the end of the season like it does now, Mangini is not it. The Dolphins dumped Cameron after 1 season. Do you think they made the wrong decision?

 

Continuing with a mistake is a bigger mistake than cutting bait. All it means is you are that much further away from the turnaround.

 

5 years is xxxxing ridiculous. I suppose you're all for giving Anderson 5 years, too?

 

You'll know in two years what your roster will be but you won't know if your heading in the right direction for at least 3

 

QB developement doesn't take 5 years it should take closer to 2 or 2-1/2 and I am for giving either QB at least an entire season in this system. Even Brady and I hate his game. I wanted him in all year so we could get a good look at his progression so I'm against that move. But flipping a team and creating an entirely new culture does take 5 years. This isn't a PS3 game you can't just sim the season and go make a bowl of cereal until your roster is developed and ready. We are slaves to an actual calender and real money here and so it does take a little time and we will have to encounter all of the bumps that come with it.

[Vegasdogg]

5 years is ridiculous. You'll know in TWO if the coach you have is worth continuing with or not.

 

If this teams looks at the end of the season like it does now, Mangini is not it. The Dolphins dumped Cameron after 1 season. Do you think they made the wrong decision?

 

Continuing with a mistake is a bigger mistake than cutting bait. All it means is you are that much further away from the turnaround.

 

5 years is xxxxing ridiculous. I suppose you're all for giving Anderson 5 years, too?

I don't know what the answer is anymore. And while I'm sure Cam is a great OC and needed to be fired, I do known the Dolphins are 0-3 and without a franchise QB. Henne may develop but who knows. But I like their 0-3 more than how ww got to our 0-3. We've been blown the fook out and that is a direct reflection on coaching. Whatever Mangini is doing he needs to change it.

[razor1414]

Just caught Jim Rome talking about our beloved brownies. He is not impressed with Mangini, rome says the browns are worse off now then we they came back 10 years ago. Basically called mangini an a-hole and said players hate him. Im parphrasing of course.

[DaBrowns41]

I'd like to give him the benefit of a doubt, and give him a chance, but players don't want to play with a coach that takes things too far.

 

I agreed when the hire is made that he bringing discipline would be a great thing, but he's taking it too far.

 

He needs to earn the respect of his players if he wants them to play football.

[Solon16]

@ Mopaji ...."""I refuse to believe that Mangini is an idiot. It is far more likely that he knows WAAAAY more than any of us (except chip banks) and we should shut up and wait. This roster needs completely flipped and that is only the beginning. It's going to be really funny when he changes the uniforms. Firing a coach is not a quick fix and has yet to work throughout all remembered time. 5 year minimum through thick and thin, 5 year minimum."""

 

5 years? No Chance....Here's how the "five year" thing has worked for every Coach the Browns have had since 99'.....Palmer....start franchise, get the players HE wants....lose, Get fired......Davis....Purge team,get the players HE wanted...go to playoffs, purge all the starting Lb's linebackers, Lose, Get fired....RAC/Savage....Purge team, Get the players They Wanted, lose, Get fired.....Mangini.....Same Ol Same Ol'......

There are no 5 year plans in the NFL!!!

 

We need the right team at the top , who can Evaluate, Motivate, Innovate and Inspire! Evaluate being first and foremost....with this QB thing, The three SECOND round draft picks sitting the bench on a perenial 4-12 team, the guys he's brought from the Jets.....Make me Question his evaluation skills. I don't want another year of draft picks Picked by a "team" of questionable evaluators...we are in this position today because of our INSANELY bad Draft picks in the last ten years....NO ONE has missed more often and more glaringly than the Browns...I've done the homework.....We are in this position because of the draft picks we've Bombed on AND the "Purges" that have taken place....BY BAD evaluators.

 

Miami, SF, Atl, Totally overhauled and now winning in year 2.... Baltimore 6-10 before Flacco.....Denver 3-0 but they face real teams in the next three weeks so we'll see. The five year plan is for fkn losers and utterly Bullshit!

[mopaji]

@ Mopaji ...."""I refuse to believe that Mangini is an idiot. It is far more likely that he knows WAAAAY more than any of us (except chip banks) and we should shut up and wait. This roster needs completely flipped and that is only the beginning. It's going to be really funny when he changes the uniforms. Firing a coach is not a quick fix and has yet to work throughout all remembered time. 5 year minimum through thick and thin, 5 year minimum."""

 

5 years? No Chance....Here's how the "five year" thing has worked for every Coach the Browns have had since 99'.....Palmer....start franchise, get the players HE wants....lose, Get fired......Davis....Purge team,get the players HE wanted...go to playoffs, purge all the starting Lb's linebackers, Lose, Get fired....RAC/Savage....Purge team, Get the players They Wanted, lose, Get fired.....Mangini.....Same Ol Same Ol'......

There are no 5 year plans in the NFL!!!

 

We need the right team at the top , who can Evaluate, Motivate, Innovate and Inspire! Evaluate being first and foremost....with this QB thing, The three SECOND round draft picks sitting the bench on a perenial 4-12 team, the guys he's brought from the Jets.....Make me Question his evaluation skills. I don't want another year of draft picks Picked by a "team" of questionable evaluators...we are in this position today because of our INSANELY bad Draft picks in the last ten years....NO ONE has missed more often and more glaringly than the Browns...I've done the homework.....We are in this position because of the draft picks we've Bombed on AND the "Purges" that have taken place....BY BAD evaluators.

 

Miami, SF, Atl, Totally overhauled and now winning in year 2.... Baltimore 6-10 before Flacco.....Denver 3-0 but they face real teams in the next three weeks so we'll see. The five year plan is for fkn losers and utterly Bullshit!

 

I guess I kinda agree with you 5 years is a while. But you also said that nobody has ever gotten 5 years here so how do you know it doesn't work? Because the other way certainly hasn't. And it worked for Jeff Fischer and Bill Cowher. But I'm not saying he will get 5 years I'm saying he needs 5 years. That doesn't go for just Mangini that would apply to anybody who took this job. As you said above, this two year thing has never worked for us. This organization doesn't have decades invested in a team or a philosophy. Don't forget, this Browns orginization is only 10 years old. And we're already on our 2nd owner and 4th coach. You cannot tell me that is a recipe for success. I don't care what other teams have done they are not us. I'm looking at the Browns. That's like saying Braylon should be breaking records by now because Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, and Marvin Harrison did in this point of their careers. And jeez, look at the talent on those teams compared to ours. They have that talent because those organizations have been following a plan for some time now. The Browns have switched visions every two years. You cannot build a team like that and you said it yourself. So why really, are you disagreeing with me? You basically said everything I did. I think I also said somewhere that after 5 years if the team sucks, you fire him. But at least we will have something established to build off of then. You cannot take a pop-warner team and turn them into a competitive NFL team in two years.