Drafting the Mangini way

[bonedawg]

I know we have all be wondering why Robiskie has been chillin' on the sidelines for the first 3 weeks of the season. Does he just suck? Did he offend Mr. Mangenious? Do we have an incredible amount of talent at WR and Robiskie just can't make the cut? I've never drafted players outside of fantasy football, but it seems that one would want to use their 2nd best pick in the draft on a player they really believed could start and contribute at their position. This doesn't seem to be Mangini's thinking on Robiskie. Apparently, coach wants him to contribute on special teams before he will dress Robiskie on Sundays. Does it matter to Mangini that WRs typically don't play special teams (outside of returns) because most coaches don't want want to get them injured being a gunner for maybe 5 plays in a ballgame? I guess it doesn't. When was the last time you saw Edwards flying down the field trying to crack someone on a kickoff? Ok, maybe Robiskie sucks and that is the only way he'll make the team. I get that. But doesn't it still fall on Mangini for selecting a guy that isn't even NFL ready for his 2ND BEST pick in the draft. I'm not going to rehash all of the guys we passed on before taking Robiskie, but one of them is probably going to have a few sacks and a ton of tackles against us on sunday.

 

Mangini from Thursday press conference

 

(On how Brian Robiskie can carve out a role on special teams when wide receivers normally don't play special teams)- "I understand exactly what you're saying and the best example I can give you is Brad Smith, who never played a lick of special teams. I don't even know if he knew where the special teams' room was. When he came in, coming in as a quarterback, really did a great job with it.

 

First game, I believe it was his first game as a rookie, had two tackles as a gunner. He has been a core (special) teams player there over the course of time, as he's working to develop as a receiver. I've seen a lot of different offensive guys, over time, who really have never played in those roles go out and excel. Some guys it hits a little bit later than other guys.

 

I'm trying to think of the fullback we had when I was with (Bill) Parcells that was not very good at special teams at all, and that's being kind. He ended up becoming a real core guy in the league because he got it. He understood it. It started making sense. It wasn't right off the bat, but he did. He ended up having a really nice career in that role and as a fullback."

[ClevelandFanForLife]

I know we have all be wondering why Robiskie has been chillin' on the sidelines for the first 3 weeks of the season. Does he just suck? Did he offend Mr. Mangenious? Do we have an incredible amount of talent at WR and Robiskie just can't make the cut? I've never drafted players outside of fantasy football, but it seems that one would want to use their 2nd best pick in the draft on a player they really believed could start and contribute at their position. This doesn't seem to be Mangini's thinking on Robiskie. Apparently, coach wants him to contribute on special teams before he will dress Robiskie on Sundays. Does it matter to Mangini that WRs typically don't play special teams (outside of returns) because most coaches don't want want to get them injured being a gunner for maybe 5 plays in a ballgame? I guess it doesn't. When was the last time you saw Edwards flying down the field trying to crack someone on a kickoff? Ok, maybe Robiskie sucks and that is the only way he'll make the team. I get that. But doesn't it still fall on Mangini for selecting a guy that isn't even NFL ready for his 2ND BEST pick in the draft. I'm not going to rehash all of the guys we passed on before taking Robiskie, but one of them is probably going to have a few sacks and a ton of tackles against us on sunday.

 

Mangini from Thursday press conference

 

(On how Brian Robiskie can carve out a role on special teams when wide receivers normally don't play special teams)- "I understand exactly what you're saying and the best example I can give you is Brad Smith, who never played a lick of special teams. I don't even know if he knew where the special teams' room was. When he came in, coming in as a quarterback, really did a great job with it.

 

First game, I believe it was his first game as a rookie, had two tackles as a gunner. He has been a core (special) teams player there over the course of time, as he's working to develop as a receiver. I've seen a lot of different offensive guys, over time, who really have never played in those roles go out and excel. Some guys it hits a little bit later than other guys.

 

I'm trying to think of the fullback we had when I was with (Bill) Parcells that was not very good at special teams at all, and that's being kind. He ended up becoming a real core guy in the league because he got it. He understood it. It started making sense. It wasn't right off the bat, but he did. He ended up having a really nice career in that role and as a fullback."

so he's admitting that he spent a much needed second round pick on a guy who will play every 10-15 plays? he really is a mangenius.

[mopaji]

Here's a list of the guys Mangini brought to the Jets via the draft, free agency, or trade.

 

Thomas Jones

Leon Washington

Dustin Keller

Chansi Stuckey

Darrelle Revis

Nick Mangold

D'Brickashaw Ferguson

Cris Jenkins

 

He did this in 3 years! Please people, the argument that he doesn't know how to draft just doesn't hold any water. Just because a few rookies aren't starting doesn't mean shit. He needs to look at his vets to see who will be here next year. The rookies, they're staying. The reason Mack is starting is not only because we have noone else, it's also because the Center position is paramount. And you develope a center much quicker with playing time.

[lemosley01]

Here's a list of the guys Mangini brought to the Jets via the draft, free agency, or trade.

 

Thomas Jones

Leon Washington

Dustin Keller

Chansi Stuckey

Darrelle Revis

Nick Mangold

D'Brickashaw Ferguson

Cris Jenkins

 

He did this in 3 years! Please people, the argument that he doesn't know how to draft just doesn't hold any water. Just because a few rookies aren't starting doesn't mean shit. He needs to look at his vets to see who will be here next year. The rookies, they're staying. The reason Mack is starting is not only because we have noone else, it's also because the Center position is paramount. And you develope a center much quicker with playing time.

 

I seem to recall D'Brickashaw and Mangold being somewhat of question marks, isn't that correct? At the time, I thought it was pretty ridiculous because they WERE just rookies. I'm fairly patient with rookies, because, well, they are rookies, but I think a lot of people see these giant contracts and figure that anyone worth that much cheese should be able to come in and make a different right away; not to mention that drafting someone that high means the guys in front of him probably aren't that good.

 

What gets my panties in a bunch is when you don't play your rookies on THIS team. On many teams, they really wouldn't have much of an impact, but this team is generally so bad, that your rookies really SHOULD be able to come in a make a difference in a fairly short time.

[Adz1987]

One gets the feeling that Mangini is not coaching for this year, but is looking 2-3 years down the road. He probably chalked this season up as a loss even before the players took the field against Minnesota. He's basically looking at this season as one huge preseason audition for the players who are going to be here long term.

 

Which really sucks for us, and is not the ideal situation. He's banking on Lerner's patience in keeping him around, and based on how quickly Lerner hired him without looking at anybody else he is probably right..

 

 

Which, like you say, is precisely what this team needs. Also I think there may be more to that Ratliff grab in the trade down deal than we are seeing currently. I think that may be HIS guy, and we won't be seeing a QB in the draft.

[Guest Masters]

Here's a list of the guys Mangini brought to the Jets via the draft, free agency, or trade.

 

Thomas Jones

Leon Washington

Dustin Keller

Chansi Stuckey

Darrelle Revis

Nick Mangold

D'Brickashaw Ferguson

Cris Jenkins

 

He did this in 3 years! Please people, the argument that he doesn't know how to draft just doesn't hold any water. Just because a few rookies aren't starting doesn't mean shit. He needs to look at his vets to see who will be here next year. The rookies, they're staying. The reason Mack is starting is not only because we have noone else, it's also because the Center position is paramount. And you develope a center much quicker with playing time.

 

One could question or argue that the aquisition of those players was the doing of Mike Tannenbaum and not EM.

[lemosley01]

I'm not sure where Mangini was going with his fullback reference. If Robiskie ever develops into a legit #2 or #3, are we going to risk him playing gunner on special teams?

 

Dunno - I suppose we might - he may play as a return man also (Reggie Bush does, and let's not forget the KWII broke his leg on a kickoff tackle).

 

The dude has to get on the field to get any good at playing special teams, and he sure can't do that if he isn't dressed on Sunday. I can't imagine that there is NO ONE on the roster at special teams that he can't replace.

[BlackBrown]

Here's a list of the guys Mangini brought to the Jets via the draft, free agency, or trade.

 

Thomas Jones

Leon Washington

Dustin Keller

Chansi Stuckey

Darrelle Revis

Nick Mangold

D'Brickashaw Ferguson

Cris Jenkins

 

He did this in 3 years! Please people, the argument that he doesn't know how to draft just doesn't hold any water. Just because a few rookies aren't starting doesn't mean shit. He needs to look at his vets to see who will be here next year. The rookies, they're staying. The reason Mack is starting is not only because we have noone else, it's also because the Center position is paramount. And you develope a center much quicker with playing time.

 

That's a pretty good list, but I wouldnt brag about using a top-5 pick on D'Brickashaw Ferguson. He is just okay. He certainly wasnt worth that high of a pick. He also draft Vernon Gholston (oops).

[mopaji]

I seem to recall D'Brickashaw and Mangold being somewhat of question marks, isn't that correct? At the time, I thought it was pretty ridiculous because they WERE just rookies. I'm fairly patient with rookies, because, well, they are rookies, but I think a lot of people see these giant contracts and figure that anyone worth that much cheese should be able to come in and make a different right away; not to mention that drafting someone that high means the guys in front of him probably aren't that good.

 

What gets my panties in a bunch is when you don't play your rookies on THIS team. On many teams, they really wouldn't have much of an impact, but this team is generally so bad, that your rookies really SHOULD be able to come in a make a difference in a fairly short time.

 

Are you following me?

 

Lemosley, I think we agree. And for once, it happened before we started mf'n eachother!

 

The only reason I can think that he isn't starting rookies is like I said above, he needs to see what vets he will keep because the rookies will be here for a few years no doubt about it. I expect to see plenty of playing time for the rooks once he makes his checklist all up. Probably midway through the season he will start peppering them in with certain packages. But that's just my opinion....

[mopaji]

That's a pretty good list, but I wouldnt brag about using a top-5 pick on D'Brickashaw Ferguson. He is just okay. He certainly wasnt worth that high of a pick. He also draft Vernon Gholston (oops).

 

 

Ferguson, yeah he's no Jackie Slater but he is a solid starter. And that's all you're really looking for at his position. And he kinda blew it with Gholston but you can't win them all.

[Chip Banks]

Mangini from Thursday press conference

 

(On how Brian Robiskie can carve out a role on special teams when wide receivers normally don't play special teams)- "I understand exactly what you're saying and the best example I can give you is Brad Smith, who never played a lick of special teams. I don't even know if he knew where the special teams' room was. When he came in, coming in as a quarterback, really did a great job with it.

 

This isn't about Robiskie playing special teams as much as it is that he's currently the 5th receiver on the roster. If you are the 5th receiver, you have to fill a special teams role to be active. Just a numbers thing.

 

Mario Manningham only played in 7 games last year and had 4 catches for 26 yards. He's really coming on this year. I don't think it is uncommon for rookie receivers to come along slowly. Mangini might be making him prove he can be one of the top three receivers before he's activated. I don't think it fits his philosophy to hand positions to players that haven't earned it. Here's hoping that Robiskie earns it soon. Both Cribbs and Furrey can stay active with ST play if they are 4 and 5.

[bonedawg]

I hear what everyone is saying about mangini coaching for next year, developing talent, and drafting successfully. I have to counter that with the argument that sure, that kind of shit works for good teams. Bad teams unfortunately have to play their draft picks because, well, there isn't enough talent on the team to justify sitting them. Does anyone really believe that our Brownies are sooo stocked with talent and depth that Robiskie isn't even allowed to dress as a 2nd round pick? That is just ridiculous.

[Solon16]

I hear what everyone is saying about mangini coaching for next year, developing talent, and drafting successfully. I have to counter that with the argument that sure, that kind of shit works for good teams. Bad teams unfortunately have to play their draft picks because, well, there isn't enough talent on the team to justify sitting them. Does anyone really believe that our Brownies are sooo stocked with talent and depth that Robiskie isn't even allowed to dress as a 2nd round pick? That is just ridiculous.

 

Finally....logic! ty

 

This is the guy whose going to continue to draft for us??? plz....NO

[mopaji]

Does anyone really believe that our Brownies are sooo stocked with talent and depth that Robiskie isn't even allowed to dress as a 2nd round pick? That is just ridiculous.

 

Absalutely not. But would it do more harm to the rooks and team to put them in with this slop we have now? Probably. Rookies are only awesome in the video games. In real life you wait until they are ready. We are in no hurry. The season is a wash. Let them sit and get hungrier and put the min when the team is stable.

 

Finally....logic! ty

 

This is the guy whose going to continue to draft for us??? plz....NO

 

Solon, you're out of your mind with anger and it's diluting your senses. You cannot just throw rookies in and hope for the best. You have to wait until they are ready, period. A great way to destroy a player's career is to put them in before they are ready and let them play alongside bad players. They will fail. They will pick up really bad habits. They will not develope. They will accept mediocrity as a symbol of success. It's just a bad move man. If you want to see these rookies so bad, wait until late in the year or buy some football cards. Oh wait, they aren't even in football card sets BECAUSE THEY DON'T MATTER.

[mopaji]

I hear what everyone is saying about mangini coaching for next year, developing talent, and drafting successfully. I have to counter that with the argument that sure, that kind of shit works for good teams. Bad teams unfortunately have to play their draft picks because, well, there isn't enough talent on the team to justify sitting them.

And they will remain bad teams.

[Solon16]

And you develop how? By sitting the bench? come on.....angry? Yes 3 second rounders sitting the bench on a 4-12 team....second round picks should ALL start if you know how to draft. Diluted? not even slightly.

[Vegasdogg]

And they will remain bad teams.

We've remained a bad team and we never play our 2nd rounders. We should just trade those damn picks away.

 

And yes, WR takes a loooonggg time to develop, which makes those picks even dumber. We need OL and LB with those picks, positions guys can play right away. Guess what? We still need those positions, and we have 3 2nd rounders "developing" on the bench.

 

 

.

[mopaji]

We've remained a bad team and we never play our 2nd rounders. We should just trade those damn picks away.

 

And yes, WR takes a loooonggg time to develop, which makes those picks even dumber. We need OL and LB with those picks, positions guys can play right away. Guess what? We still need those positions, and we have 3 2nd rounders "developing" on the bench.

 

 

.

 

 

Coming into the season we had Braylon and Cribbs. Okay, we had Braylon and he will not be here next year and we all knew it. We needed to get some WRs to develope for the future fast!. We brought Bowens and Barton over so we didn't need to take a LB that early. Our OL was supposed to be Thomas, Stienbach, Fraley/Mack, Hadnot, Tucker so we didn't need an OL that early either. Also, this was not a very good draft at all and so later round skill players were very scarce. All in all I think we did a heck of a job addressing some needs pretty quickly. He even put together a secondary adding Elam and Francies. People, this is what building the future looks like! It is a really good thing! It's just not that fun to watch on Sundays unless you really enjoy the building process, which I do when its done right. Relax and enjoy watching this team take shape and build an identity because that is what we are seeing. If you truly love football, this is a really exciting and interesting time to be a Browns fan. The media doesn't approach it that way because that doesn't fit into their mission statement of Keep It Simple Stupid. Look at it like it's 99 again because it definately is. And we're finally building the team today like we should have 10 years ago. Now, accepting that this is an expansion year, you have to be really excited about the future of this team. We're gonna take some bumps. But, as Bernie Mac would say "chillax".

[mopaji]

DUDE.

 

We understand that Mangini THINKS he's building for the future. We aren't Retards.

 

We (well, you and I) disagree that he actually knows what those right pieces for the future are. Thus spooging on the present AND future. His talent evaluation and coaching skills are looking like dogshit thus far, no?

 

Explain to me what you find impressive this far.

 

PS your Francies example stinks. He's starting a SAFETY over that CB building-block Francies Sunday.

 

I didn't say he drafted Champ Bailey I meant he drafted a positional need. I wasn't sure that needed to be elaborated on but I guess I was wrong. And to answer your question, re-read my post that you're replying to. That entire thing was an explanation of what I found impressive so far. Now, I am going to paste something I wrote in another thread but it is incredibly relavent to your point.

 

Here's a list of the guys Mangini brought to the Jets via the draft, free agency, or trade.

 

Thomas Jones

Leon Washington

Dustin Keller

Chansi Stuckey

Darrelle Revis

Nick Mangold

D'Brickashaw Ferguson

Cris Jenkins

 

He did this in 3 years! So the argument that he doesn't know how to draft or can't evaluate talent just doesn't hold any water. Just because a few rookies aren't starting doesn't mean shit. He needs to look at his vets to see who will be here next year. The rookies, they're staying for sure.

 

Now that I've answered your questions answer one for me. Where would we be in 3 years if he drafted who you wanted? Give me a list of the guys you wanted and why, in 3 years, we would be better off.

[mopaji]

Given any thought to the fact that Mike Tannenbaum was doing the drafting in NY?

 

I guess I would have given it some thought if I knew it to be true. So, are you going to answer my original question so I can learn? While you're at it, where did you find out T-Bomb was doing the drafting? If it's true i will happily change my stance. Help me out here I'm just a tard.

[bonedawg]

Absalutely not. But would it do more harm to the rooks and team to put them in with this slop we have now? Probably. Rookies are only awesome in the video games. In real life you wait until they are ready. We are in no hurry. The season is a wash. Let them sit and get hungrier and put the min when the team is stable.

 

 

 

Solon, you're out of your mind with anger and it's diluting your senses. You cannot just throw rookies in and hope for the best. You have to wait until they are ready, period. A great way to destroy a player's career is to put them in before they are ready and let them play alongside bad players. They will fail. They will pick up really bad habits. They will not develope. They will accept mediocrity as a symbol of success. It's just a bad move man. If you want to see these rookies so bad, wait until late in the year or buy some football cards. Oh wait, they aren't even in football card sets BECAUSE THEY DON'T MATTER.

 

Yeah, throwing in rookies like Flacco, Ryan, Sanchez, and Peterson before they could develop on the bench absolutely ruined their careers. Robiskie needs to spend some QT on the bench watching our WRs drop balls and run the wrong routes before he can go out there and drop balls as bad as BE and run bad routes as bad as Cribbs. I'm not buying that shit for one minute.

[RestinPeace]

Yeah, throwing in rookies like Flacco, Ryan, Sanchez, and Peterson before they could develop on the bench absolutely ruined their careers. Robiskie needs to spend some QT on the bench watching our WRs drop balls and run the wrong routes before he can go out there and drop balls as bad as BE and run bad routes as bad as Cribbs. I'm not buying that shit for one minute.

 

LOL. Sanchez hardly belong in that list, considering some questionable play, that he hasn't been brought up on yet.

[mopaji]

RE: Tannenbaum...

 

 

 

You know FOR SURE that Mangini had control of all of the roster/draft decisions in NY? You must be an expert on the Jets, because you have very little clue as to what's going on here.

 

I would have drafted John Elway in the first round and Walter Payton in round 2.

 

Dude, the GM always gets the credit in the paper and so you know about as much as I do about who actually made the decisions in the war room. But we can both agree that no ONE person makes those calls. Come on guy. The coach is in on every GM meeting regarding personel. And has a very important say in what decisions are ultimately made. And let's say for argument's sake you're right and Mangini had no say in the personel in NY. None of us still have any indication that he blew this year's offseason for the Browns. You're taking an emotional position on this. Ya just need to relax and watch it all come together. Then, if this team ends up like RAC and Savages, we can all freak out. But already, he is taking a completely different approach. He's taking the one that we should have taken 10 years ago.