Oh no, we don't have a superstar

[WPB Dawg Fan]

John, we have tried the Patriot way with RAC and it did not work and now we are trying it again and its not going to work because there is only 1 Billy B and Eric Mangini or none of the other Belichek former assistants is making anybody think they are the next Belichek.

 

The Pittsburgh Steelers hae been as successful as the Patriots yet I don't see anyone trying to be like the Steelers which amazes me

 

Tell me why nobody wants to be like the Colts, Titans, Giants or Eagles who like the Steelers I would be trying to copy

 

No, we didn't really...because RAC was saddled with Savage who didn't necessarily give him the players he wanted. The overall dysfunction between Savage and RAC easily overwhelmed any attempt by RAC to do the NE way. Just look at some of the draft picks made by Savage and ask yourself if NE would ever have done that.

 

BQ is prime example. NE would NEVER have given up a 1st the next year to get a player. NEVER!!!

 

[lemosley01]

Dude, Robiske is as good as he will ever be and he was not a dominant receiver at Ohio State another product of people on this board overrating Ohio State players, where is Antione Pittman now? out of the league and we had posters who wanted the Browns to draft this guy

 

Robiske can't get separation against NFL corners thats why he is not playing, I attended practice many days and saw this with my own eyes not reading a newspaper

 

So...Mangini is listening to this board (and other OSU homer boards) to make draft decisions?

 

Remember, Robiskie was drafted at #36. It seems SOMEONE thinks he is

A ) Pretty good now

B ) Shows that he can improve

 

Teams won't draft someone at #36 who they think is as good as he'll ever be. He hasn't even hit his physcial peak yet.

[Sony Reed]

So...Mangini is listening to this board (and other OSU homer boards) to make draft decisions?

 

Remember, Robiskie was drafted at #36. It seems SOMEONE thinks he is

A ) Pretty good now

B ) Shows that he can improve

 

Teams won't draft someone at #36 who they think is as good as he'll ever be. He hasn't even hit his physcial peak yet.

 

Robiske SUCKS and you will soon find out when he gets on the field

 

Guy was not dominant at Ohio State and now you think he will become a good NFL player

 

Most NFL ready receiver scouting reports said.....How did that turn out for you...ha ha ha

 

[hoorta]

Jerry Rice didn't have very good 40 YD times.

 

Neither did Steve Largent.

 

[Guest AdaM]

Robiske SUCKS and you will soon find out when he gets on the field

 

Guy was not dominant at Ohio State and now you think he will become a good NFL player

 

Most NFL ready receiver scouting reports said.....How did that turn out for you...ha ha ha

 

 

 

Don't be a moron. We have no idea of Robo's potential yet.

 

I'm willing to be you're dead wrong.

[Guest Masters]

Guy was not dominant at Ohio State and now you think he will become a good NFL player

 

To be fair, it's a bit hard to be dominate at WR when you have Boeckman and Pryor throwing passes to you for the 2 years you were a starter.

[lemosley01]

Robiske SUCKS and you will soon find out when he gets on the field

 

Guy was not dominant at Ohio State and now you think he will become a good NFL player

 

Most NFL ready receiver scouting reports said.....How did that turn out for you...ha ha ha

 

You didn't address my point, did you?

 

How can Robiskie be a product of 'over hyping' by this board. Are you suggesting that coaches are getting their drafting advice from fan boards?

 

We'll never know he sucks until he plays, will we?

 

Frankly, I'm not expecting him to be that good as it takes most receivers a couple of years to get it together and become really productive.

 

But, this being CLE Browns fans, if he doesn't go out and put up Moss like numbers, he'll be a 'bust'. Same thing with Massaquoi. When he has a bad game, people will be declaring him a bust just like they declare him the 'savior' now.

 

[mopaji]

I think the notion is all well and good, but outside of NE, who else has had success w/ that plan (note NE has also gone away from that plan).

 

 

The two NFL dynasties, NE and PITT. I actually texted this EXACT same point to Reghi yesterday but I don't think he read it. Or maybe he did? Grossi does tend to steal emailers' takes and publish them the next day. (thanks for the cred Grossi)

 

My point was that the system creates the stars. If you name all of the superstars in the league that have been popular from the day they came into the league like McNabb, TO, Moss, Pederson, Cutler, Palmer, V. Young just to name a few, they have no rings between all of them combined. Now, look at the Patriots and Steelers. Every name on those teams (save for Polamaulu) is a household name now because of the rings they won when nobody knew their names. Even Cassel had an excellent year in that system last year and is now, as I stated months ago, doing an excellent Scott Mitchell impression. Also, look at the players that these two dynasties let go, they rarely amount to squat anywhere else in the league.

 

I'm not saying talent doesn't help but nomatter who is on the field, if the coach can get them to do their job on every play, you win WAAAAAAAAAY more than you lose. And you can play with anybody in the league. on any Sunday.

 

The system creates the superstar.

 

[Sony Reed]

You didn't address my point, did you?

 

How can Robiskie be a product of 'over hyping' by this board. Are you suggesting that coaches are getting their drafting advice from fan boards?

 

We'll never know he sucks until he plays, will we?

 

Frankly, I'm not expecting him to be that good as it takes most receivers a couple of years to get it together and become really productive.

 

But, this being CLE Browns fans, if he doesn't go out and put up Moss like numbers, he'll be a 'bust'. Same thing with Massaquoi. When he has a bad game, people will be declaring him a bust just like they declare him the 'savior' now.

 

No I am not saying that the Browns draft players based on what this board says, what I am saying is that the hype at draft time was that Robiske was the most NFL ready receiver the same thing which was said about Brady Quinn and we see how that has turned out.

 

I have seen enough of robiske in practice and I'm sure the coaches saw the exact things I did that Robiske has a problem geting separation which is why he is not seeing the field and why I made the statement that Robiske may be as good as he will ever be, Robiske has been play receiver I'm sure since high school and he can't beat out a ex college QB now NFL specials teamer and a journeyman receiver in Fuerry, what does that tell you? It tells me that Robiske is not very good and we wasted another draft selection, and looking at this years draft by Mangini I'm not sure we did all that well.

 

The guy was a 2nd round pick and should be contributing, everyone said MoMass was a project and would take a year to maybe develop and yet he looks far more polished as a NFL receiver than Robiske does, I hope I am wrong but there was nothing my eyes saw in training camp from Robiske that has me thinking we have something special.

 

Stan and a few other people attended training camp maybe you can get there opinion of Robiske and what they saw.

 

[Sony Reed]

The two NFL dynasties, NE and PITT. I actually texted this EXACT same point to Reghi yesterday but I don't think he read it. Or maybe he did? Grossi does tend to steal emailers' takes and publish them the next day. (thanks for the cred Grossi)

 

My point was that the system creates the stars. If you name all of the superstars in the league that have been popular from the day they came into the league like McNabb, TO, Moss, Pederson, Cutler, Palmer, V. Young just to name a few, they have no rings between all of them combined. Now, look at the Patriots and Steelers. Every name on those teams (save for Polamaulu) is a household name now because of the rings they won when nobody knew their names. Even Cassel had an excellent year in that system last year and is now, as I stated months ago, doing an excellent Scott Mitchell impression. Also, look at the players that these two dynasties let go, they rarely amount to squat anywhere else in the league.

 

I'm not saying talent doesn't help but nomatter who is on the field, if the coach can get them to do their job on every play, you win WAAAAAAAAAY more than you lose. And you can play with anybody in the league. on any Sunday.

 

The system creates the superstar.

 

Man you have nailed it 100%

 

Have you noticed that every linebacker that the Steelers add to there lineup steps in and never misses a beat and yet every Steeler linebacker who leaves the Steelers with the exception of Joey Porter when they leave they never have the same productivity they had with the Steelers, its all about the system.

 

Some coaches put in a system based on the players they have and you have other coaches who insist on playing there system even if you don't have the players for there system.

 

Example, The Browns don't have the players to run a attacking 3-4 defense yet they insist on playing a 3-4 because thats Mangini's system, we don't have the linebackers for the 3-4 inside or outside linebackers and Shaun Rogers would be more effective playing a one gap defensive tackle position, Eric Wright would be a better cornerback playing press coverage than zone we have the wrong players trying to play a system that Mangini wants

 

[Guest Masters]

The two NFL dynasties, NE and PITT. I actually texted this EXACT same point to Reghi yesterday but I don't think he read it. Or maybe he did? Grossi does tend to steal emailers' takes and publish them the next day. (thanks for the cred Grossi)

 

My point was that the system creates the stars. If you name all of the superstars in the league that have been popular from the day they came into the league like McNabb, TO, Moss, Pederson, Cutler, Palmer, V. Young just to name a few, they have no rings between all of them combined. Now, look at the Patriots and Steelers. Every name on those teams (save for Polamaulu) is a household name now because of the rings they won when nobody knew their names. Even Cassel had an excellent year in that system last year and is now, as I stated months ago, doing an excellent Scott Mitchell impression. Also, look at the players that these two dynasties let go, they rarely amount to squat anywhere else in the league.

 

I'm not saying talent doesn't help but nomatter who is on the field, if the coach can get them to do their job on every play, you win WAAAAAAAAAY more than you lose. And you can play with anybody in the league. on any Sunday.

 

The system creates the superstar.

 

That was all well and good and I don't disagree with most of it (except possibly the household name part. if you survey'd people on the street, and even some fans of PIT, I bet most would be hard pressed to name anyone on the OL, DL, CBs, or all 4 LBds).

 

Most guys PIT or NE let go are generally on the decline. NE also brings in vets that already made a name for themselves before coming there, such as Moss, Seau, Harrison, Welker.

 

None of this still points out a team in the last 10 years where following the blue print of what BB did in NE 10 years agao and has had success.

 

And of course if you get the players to do their job on every play you will win more than you lose. That isn't exactly a new notion in football, or any sport for that matter. As to playing w/ anyone on any Sunday w/ no stars (maybe a Sunday here and there), you'd be hard pressed to find a single example team that has done that in the last 20+ years.

[Sony Reed]

Don't be a moron. We have no idea of Robo's potential yet.

 

I'm willing to be you're dead wrong.

 

What are you willing to bet?

 

Why is Robiske not playing if he was so good?

 

What have you seen of Brain robiske to make you feel like he would/will be good....please explain

 

Have you seen Robiske play in the NFL?

[Guest Masters]

Have you seen Robiske play in the NFL?

 

In fairness, that question can be posed right back to you.

[Sony Reed]

That was all well and good and I don't disagree with most of it (except possibly the household name part. if you survey'd people on the street, and even some fans of PIT, I bet most would be hard pressed to name anyone on the OL, DL, CBs, or all 4 LBds).

 

Most guys PIT or NE let go are generally on the decline. NE also brings in vets that already made a name for themselves before coming there, such as Moss, Seau, Harrison, Welker.

 

None of this still points out a team in the last 10 years where following the blue print of what BB did in NE 10 years agao and has had success.

 

And of course if you get the players to do their job on every play you will win more than you lose. That isn't exactly a new notion in football, or any sport for that matter. As to playing w/ anyone on any Sunday w/ no stars (maybe a Sunday here and there), you'd be hard pressed to find a single example team that has done that in the last 20+ years.

 

Masters, you are 100% correct......You need star players to win in the NFL today, its all about talent, the most talented teams win on Sunday, you can have a bunch of average NFL players and they may go 8-8 but its the star players with talent that make the big plays each week that separate the good teams from the very good teams.

 

The Browns played a game where they won TOP, turnovers, yards gained and still lost to the Bengals because the Bengals Carson Palmer and Chad Ochinko made big plays at the end of the game when they needed to, two guys that are more talented than most guys on the Browns sideline last week.

 

The Patriot way of 10 years ago will not work today and thats why the Patriots got away from that.

 

[Sony Reed]

In fairness, that question can be posed right back to you.

 

Nobody has seen Robiske play in the NFL yet because the coaching staff has decided he is not yet good enough to see the field

 

Now I am no NFL talent evaluator but I saw enough of Robiske in training camp to tell you he had trouble getting separation again the DB's of the Browns and its not like the Browns DB's are the most talented in the league, so I say how is he going to consistantly get separation against good NFL corners?

 

I believe one of the reasons Quinn struggled was because Braylon was the only receiver he had who was getting open or running crisp routes

 

[Sony Reed]

Actually what the patriots did was build a foundation of a TEAM that can survive with out it's star players, and make very sure they understand that. See all the "star veterans" they cut when they decide they have gotten too old or too expensive. and it wasn't til AFTER that foundation was built that they felt able to bring in some more volitile talent. It started with Corey Dillon and continued with Moss. BUt can you tell me their records would have been all that much diferent without those two guys? I don't think it would.

 

You act as though the Patriots did not have any talent and they won with a bunch of journeyman and that was not the case and add in you have the best coach in the NFL.

 

The Browns need to stop trying to be like the Patriots and get there own identity, there is only (1) Bill Belichek, what Belichek and Pioli did in New England won't be duplicated by anyone.

 

What has Romeo Crennel, Charlie Weiss and Eric Mangini done since they left New England?

 

Leigh Bodden could not start for a winless Detroit Lions team and now he is the number 1 cornerback for the Patriots, what does that tell you

[Guest Masters]

Nobody has seen Robiske play in the NFL yet because the coaching staff has decided he is not yet good enough to see the field

 

Now I am no NFL talent evaluator but I saw enough of Robiske in training camp to tell you he had trouble getting separation again the DB's of the Browns and its not like the Browns DB's are the most talented in the league, so I say how is he going to consistantly get separation against good NFL corners?

 

I believe one of the reasons Quinn struggled was because Braylon was the only receiver he had who was getting open or running crisp routes

 

I was just saying, since you were using that like about seeing the guy play in the NFL. It goes both ways

 

Or good enough yet. This same staff did have Cribbs starting at the #2 WR and MoMass as the 4th WR just a couple of weeks ago.

 

I don't doubt Robiskie may have trouble getting seperation in the NFL. We may find out this Sunday.

[Guest Masters]

Leigh Bodden could not start for a winless Detroit Lions team and now he is the number 1 cornerback for the Patriots, what does that tell you

 

That there are some cracks and holes in NE D....lol

[Guest Masters]

And your acting like because mangini is developing his team in a way similar to the way he's been most experinaced with, that it's doomed for failure.

 

Why is it so shocking that coaches tend to coach the way the coaches that were their mentors coached?

 

These snippet about the BB coaching tree for a ESPN the magazine article is what concerns me about Mangini and other guys from the BB tree

 

"So why hasn't Belichick's gang replicated the boss's success? There are theories. One is that there's an inherent learning curve to running a team. Many fail the first time around, including Belichick. "It's hard," he says. "You're doing a lot of things and it's hard to understand all of them, put them together, keep everything straight and make things more efficient, not just a big mess." Mangini had a winning record two of his three years in New York, but admits to being surprised by the amount of organization required. Weis and Crennel both struggled to re-create the same chemistry they found on Belichick's staff. "You just don't get a feel for that type of thing as an assistant," says Weis.

 

Second, only a few people know what's going on inside the Patriots organization: Belichick, his longtime friend and assistant Ernie Adams, owner Bob Kraft and team president Jonathan Kraft. "We learned about the team online," says one former staffer. Belichick doesn't allow his assistants in on the rationale behind all of his personnel decisions, making it harder for them to navigate key choices on the draft, salary cap and free agency once they're on their own. Belichick develops his guys, "but they're not true head coaches," says Savage

 

As head coaches, his protégés have all been accused of acting like him, as Belichick was accused of mimicking Bill Parcells. The Mangini former Pats colleagues now see with a whistle -- so serious he's Belichick to an extreme -- isn't the self-effacing guy they used to know. When McDaniels did exactly what Belichick would do in disposing of a quarterback he was unsure of (ask Bernie Kosar and Drew Bledsoe), he was accused of replicating his former boss's arrogance, not his keen eye for personnel. The move might prove prophetic -- it did in New England -- but if Denver loses early, it could backfire. "We're trying like hell to make the New England system work," he says.

 

But if Belichick's former charges are trying to replicate him, they're actually not doing what he would do. They're not thinking for themselves. After all, Belichick's football thinking is a direct reflection of his life. His work ethic came from a brutal year at Phillips Academy, where he realized he wasn't as smart as he thought. He has picked up wisdom from people he's met in every phase of his career. As an assistant in Denver, Belichick learned how to teach succinctly from then-Broncos DB coach Richie McCabe. Ted Marchibroda in Baltimore taught him to be flexible. He learned how to evaluate talent from his personnel guy in Cleveland, Mike Lombardi; learned the salary cap from NBA legend Jerry West; learned management from reading Jack Welch & the GE Way. He had to be fired by the Browns and wait five seasons for another chance. To stand with the game's greatest coaches, he has had to summon his 34 years of NFL experience, come off like a jerk at times, endure disputes with star players, pay a $500,000 fine for Spygate and win the lottery with a sixth-round Hall of Fame quarterback. It's as imperfect a path as there has ever been in coaching.

 

That's why, as they depart, Belichick advises his coaches to learn from their time with him, from his experience. Because there's no way to copy it."

 

 

 

[Gips]

Im looking forward to our rookies finally taking to the field...the new era is finally dawning and hopefully a superstar or two will emerge over time..the only regrets at this time are i wish we had a promising rookie under center instead of mr.anderception,brady whenn and ratface the horrid...