DA can scratch KC off of his Wish List.

[Guest mz.]

Anyone watching a smart, poised, patient Tyler Thigpen playing very well against the Chargers? And this is with zero running game to speak of.

 

MIN or bust????? MIA isn't giving anything up with Henne still waiting to take his turn. Any other possible suitors?

[eqrulz101]

Actually I think Min would be ideal for DA. Tough defense and big play capablity with Berrian, course he hasnt lately but with a better QB maybe, and a top of the line running game. I think DA could do very well in Min.

[listercat]

Chuck him off to the Lions

[Guest mz.]

Literally or figuratively?

[Orangenotbrown]

Was DA holding the clipboard at the wrong angle on Thursday and this caused the Browns offense to go unresponsive when they needed points to win?

 

You are going to become very boring very quickly if you dont think of something else to talk about.

 

Besides the other upside to Browns now having a winning quarterback is that this board will quickly shed all the DA hating one trick ponies.

[Guest Masters]

Was DA holding the clipboard at the wrong angle on Thursday and this caused the Browns offense to go unresponsive when they needed points to win?

 

You mean the second time. Cause he had the go ahead score in the 4th quarter, now didn't he. Hell, it was points in the 4th quarter, unlike DA.

 

You are going to become very boring very quickly if you dont think of something else to talk about.

 

Besides the other upside to Browns now having a winning quarterback is that this board will quickly shed all the DA hating one trick ponies.

[eqrulz101]

Was DA holding the clipboard at the wrong angle on Thursday and this caused the Browns offense to go unresponsive when they needed points to win?

 

You are going to become very boring very quickly if you dont think of something else to talk about.

 

Besides the other upside to Browns now having a winning quarterback is that this board will quickly shed all the DA hating one trick ponies.

 

I stated something very positive about DA, which you overlooked because you like to agrue. I think he could do well in Min with the type of team they have, he couldnt do well in Cleveland because we dont have that top in RB or the shut down defense needed for a qb like DA to do well. I think he is a nice guy and I dont want him to fail, I just dont want him to take the Browns down with him with his one dimensional style of play.

[Guest Aloysius]

PFW has a little blurb posted about why the Chiefs' offense has looked better as of late:

Although little was made about the Chiefs’ signing of WR Mark Bradley on Oct. 1, the ex-Bear already has become a major contributor in K.C. In Weeks Eight and Nine alone, he virtually matched the numbers that Devard Darling, the team’s previous No. 2 receiver, had posted in eight games. Bradley’s emergence has been one of the unsung reasons why the Chiefs’ offense looks much improved.

Today, Bradley had 9 catches for 81 yards and a TD.

 

I guess we should have listened to mz the pussy when he posted this on the old board:

The Bears just cut Mark Bradley...a small, fast dude...I think he could be a good Stallworth-by-proxy perhaps...

Good call. Too bad our FO wasn't listening.

[Orangenotbrown]

Was DA holding the clipboard at the wrong angle on Thursday and this caused the Browns offense to go unresponsive when they needed points to win?

 

You are going to become very boring very quickly if you dont think of something else to talk about.

 

Besides the other upside to Browns now having a winning quarterback is that this board will quickly shed all the DA hating one trick ponies.

 

I stated something very positive about DA, which you overlooked because you like to agrue. I think he could do well in Min with the type of team they have, he couldnt do well in Cleveland because we dont have that top in RB or the shut down defense needed for a qb like DA to do well. I think he is a nice guy and I dont want him to fail, I just dont want him to take the Browns down with him with his one dimensional style of play.

 

 

Alright well thats point well taken.

 

But if you trade him tomorrow who is your backup? Dorsey?

[Sturim]

A couple of friends/family members of mine are big chiefs fans so I've been hearing things since preseason about him. He's been really good the past couple weeks. I think they're probably thinking they have something there at qb now. What's scary is from what I was told is he wasn't a qb in college...or switched to the position later on. I'm gonna have to check that out and see the story there. He played at coastal carolina rofl.

[eqrulz101]

Was DA holding the clipboard at the wrong angle on Thursday and this caused the Browns offense to go unresponsive when they needed points to win?

 

You are going to become very boring very quickly if you dont think of something else to talk about.

 

Besides the other upside to Browns now having a winning quarterback is that this board will quickly shed all the DA hating one trick ponies.

 

I stated something very positive about DA, which you overlooked because you like to agrue. I think he could do well in Min with the type of team they have, he couldnt do well in Cleveland because we dont have that top in RB or the shut down defense needed for a qb like DA to do well. I think he is a nice guy and I dont want him to fail, I just dont want him to take the Browns down with him with his one dimensional style of play.

 

 

Alright well thats point well taken.

 

But if you trade him tomorrow who is your backup? Dorsey?

 

I think you can go out and find a decent FA for back up QB, because you do need a good one. Do you hang on to DA and pay him starter money for back up? No. Do you risk having more controversy for the starting position between DA and BQ if BQ has a couple of bad games? No.

 

So the next best thing is to go out and pay an experinced FA that didnt pan out else where. But you dont make a move like that till after the seasons end and you see what kind of progress BQ makes through 8 games. Personally I think he will make the needed progress and make a good to top end QB in this league.

[Guest Aloysius]

A couple of friends/family members of mine are big chiefs fans so I've been hearing things since preseason about him. He's been really good the past couple weeks. I think they're probably thinking they have something there at qb now. What's scary is from what I was told is he wasn't a qb in college...or switched to the position later on. I'm gonna have to check that out and see the story there. He played at coastal carolina rofl.

Don't know anything about him playing a different position. I think he was a baseball recruit - maybe that's what you were thinking of.

 

He was recruited to play QB at Louisville, but he decided to go to Coastal Carolina instead.

 

I almost put up a post during the summer about this, but Thigpen's just another example of why you never try to put a promising young QB on your practice squad. Thigpen was drafted by the Vikings, but the Chiefs claimed him when he didn't make their 53 man roster.

 

Just like how the Ravens & Cowboys must regret putting DA & Matt Moore on waivers, Brad Childress must feel like a moron for keeping Brooks Bollinger over Thigpen.

 

By contrast, the Jets kept 4 QB's on their opening day roster because they didn't want to risk putting Erik Ainge on waivers (now he's on IR). To me, that seems like a much smarter strategy.

[Guest 88fingerslewy]

I'm saying St.Louis. Just a guess.

[Guest mz.]

But if you trade him tomorrow who is your backup? Dorsey?

 

Well, he can't be traded until the offseason. At which point we sign a young backup/draft a young backup in the later rounds.

 

I guess we should have listened to mz the pussy when he posted this on the old board:

The Bears just cut Mark Bradley...a small, fast dude...I think he could be a good Stallworth-by-proxy perhaps...

Good call. Too bad our FO wasn't listening.

 

That dude does know his shit.

 

Today, he looked like we'd hoped Stallworth looked. It's amazing what a supplemental weapon (in addition to your #1 WR and TE) can do for an offense (duh.).

[Guest Aloysius]

Today, he looked like we'd hoped Stallworth looked. It's amazing what a supplemental weapon (in addition to your #1 WR and TE) can do for an offense (duh.).

Yeah, Stallworth really screwed up our season.

 

And Phil deserves some of the blame as well. Look at how all the other FA receivers we discussed this spring have done compared to Stallworth:

 

• : 30 catches, 621 yards, 4 TD

[/*:m:z628lnsv]

[*] Devery Henderson: 18 catches, 499 yards, 3 TD

[/*:m:z628lnsv]

[*] Bryant Johnson: 16 catches, 208 yards, 1 TD

[/*:m:z628lnsv]

[*] Justin Gage: 13 catches, 182 yards, 1 TD

[/*:m:z628lnsv]

[*] Jabar Gaffney: 12 catches, 118 yards, 1 TD

[/*:m:z628lnsv]

[*] Donte Stallworth: 11 catches, 104 yards, 1 TD[/*:m:z628lnsv]

 

His numbers are very close to Gaffney's, but Jabar signed a one year, $1.25 M deal. Stallworth got $10 M guaranteed.

 

That's not good.

[We need Tom Tupa]

Gaffney has those numbers in 8 games. We didnt sign Stallworth to catch 1 pass a week, we have several guys that can do that. Imagine the uproar if all Phil had done to upgrade the WR position was sign Gaffney.

 

Most of those other guys werent going to be brought in as a #2. They are #1 options elsewhere and, for the most part, getting paid for it.

 

While we're in the process of comparing Stallworth to the other WRs we couldve signed, let's include Jerry Porter, Javon Walker, DJ Hackett, Troy Brown, Keary Colbert, Brandon Lloyd (hasnt played since week 4), Justin McCareins, David Patten, Koren Robinson (4 appearances this year), Peerless Price, and on and on.

 

Alot of guys on that list that you're pissed Phil overlooked?

 

And there is always the small detail that Stallworth will still be a Brown when he quad/groin/whatever heals.

 

Sorry for the hijack.

[Guest Aloysius]

Gaffney has those numbers in 8 games. We didnt sign Stallworth to catch 1 pass a week, we have several guys that can do that. Imagine the uproar if all Phil had done to upgrade the WR position was sign Gaffney.

My preference in the spring was to sign Gaffney and draft a receiver. Just as unpopular as going with Marques Douglas instead of Corey Williams, but both may have been better decisions.

 

Gaffney wouldn't have stretched the field like Stallworth is supposed to, but he's a serviceable receiver. Those "catch 1 pass a week" stats are more a function of the guys playing ahead of him. And towards the end of last year, Gaffney was playing ahead of Stallworth. The Pats decided that they couldn't rely on Donte.

Most of those other guys werent going to be brought in as a #2. They are #1 options elsewhere and, for the most part, getting paid for it.

Bryant Johnson & Devery Henderson most certainly aren't #1 options. Both got one year, $2 M deals. Johnson's considered a disappointment, while Henderson's been considered a mild surprise. But both of them signed modest contracts.

While we're in the process of comparing Stallworth to the other WRs we couldve signed, let's include Jerry Porter, Javon Walker, DJ Hackett, Troy Brown, Keary Colbert, Brandon Lloyd (hasnt played since week 4), Justin McCareins, David Patten, Koren Robinson (4 appearances this year), Peerless Price, and on and on.

Yeah, those guys suck. Other than DJ Hackett, I don't remember any of those guys getting mentioned as a viable option here. And Hackett signed a very modest deal (2 years, $3.5 M), so his poor play this year isn't such a poor investment.

Alot of guys on that list that you're pissed Phil overlooked?

No, not really. Like I said, I thought the draft was the best option. And if the FA options are bad, that doesn't justify throwing a lot of money at an oft-injured player.

And there is always the small detail that Stallworth will still be a Brown when he quad/groin/whatever heals.

Or at least until he gets cut - I don't see him receiving that $4.75 M roster bonus in March.

[We need Tom Tupa]

No GM was going to pass on Stallworth to look for a WR later in the draft. This wasnt a team that was going to wait a year to see how the guy panned out.

 

If the money is what bothers you, then let's drop the WR comparisons and talk about what you think the expense of signing Stallworth kept us from doing elsewhere.

[Guest Aloysius]

It depends on what you mean by "later in the draft".

 

And I'd have to go look back at who was available before constructing my alternate history of our last offseason. Randy Starks & Travis LaBoy are two guys who come to mind.

 

But I guess it's the conservative in me (!) that doesn't like putting $10 M guaranteed into such a risky player. Same reason I didn't like giving up a 2nd for Corey Williams.

[We need Tom Tupa]

My guess is that alot of GMs make the move for Williams, so my "later in the draft" comment was a reference to our first pick being in the 4th round (I assume you dont want to take back the Rogers trade too).

 

The first WR taken after our 2nd round pick was Dexter Jackson. He has yet to see playing time. The next was Earl Bennett. He has 0 career catches. The next 7 WRs taken have combined for 22 catches. That includes Mario Manningham, whom some on this board were hot for, with 1 reception. That takes us to the end of the 4th round. You'll have a tough time convincing me that selecting a WR after that is anything more than a crapshoot, at least as far as production in their first couple of years.

[Guest Aloysius]

My guess is that alot of GMs make the move for Williams, so my "later in the draft" comment was a reference to our first pick being in the 4th round (I assume you dont want to take back the Rogers trade too).

Had I been GM, I wouldn't have traded for a guy like Shaun Rogers, nor would I have traded for Kris Jenkins. Yet both of those guys have been reborn as 3-4 NT's, which is why you should take my words with a boulder of salt.

 

But let's continue...

The first WR taken after our 2nd round pick was Dexter Jackson. He has yet to see playing time.

He was a ridiculous reach; the guy lost his punt return job because he kept slipping when making cuts.

The next was Earl Bennett. He has 0 career catches.

Can't get on the field because of a recurring case of the dropsies. Maybe not a reach, but a bad pick.

The next 7 WRs taken have combined for 22 catches. That includes Mario Manningham, whom some on this board were hot for, with 1 reception.

Not me on Manningham, but you're missing that 20 of those receptions came from two mid-Round 3 receivers, Harry Douglas and Early Doucet.

 

Many people on this board liked Douglas as a 3rd Round slot type, and that's the role he's been playing with the Falcons. He's not getting many targets in their run-first system, but the reports on him are pretty solid.

 

Doucet was a surprise slide to the 3rd Round, where he was picked up the receiver-heavy Cardinals. It's no surprise, then, that he only has 8 catches so far - he's buried on the depth chart behind Boldin, Fitzgerald, and Breaston.

 

On different offenses & different teams, those guys would have more than 20 combined catches.

That takes us to the end of the 4th round. You'll have a tough time convincing me that selecting a WR after that is anything more than a crapshoot, at least as far as production in their first couple of years.

Yes, WR is a position in which players can take years to fully develop. It's also a position in which minor, nagging injuries can take a toll on a player's performance. So if a guy's nickname is The Human Hamstring Pull, you may have a problem.

 

But I don't think we disagree much on all the stuff above. A rookie receiver's probably not going to serve as an effective #2 receiver (I was thinking more as a slot guy). And Stallworth, though not very durable, probably was the most talented #2 available.

 

However, I think the situation advised against signing Stallworth because

 

[*] the FO already knew that Joe Jurevicius' knee could keep him out for the entire season[/*:m:14mdrzfo]

 

So we definitely needed another receiver, but he didn't have to be a world-beater & he needed to be durable.

 

What Savage did, however, was go for the home run. Anticipating that this could be our year, he signed the player who could (potentially) take the offense to an entirely new level, but also the player who'd be the least likely to stay healthy.

 

As a result, we didn't have a #2 receiver at precisely the time we needed one most. Stallworth may be able to play the rest of the season, but it's too late; not only is this not our year, but we're not going to make the playoffs.

 

So I would have preferred to sign a cheap & safe option like Gaffney & hope an Eddie Royal or a Justin Morgan fell into our laps.

 

But I recognize that it'd be the more conservative option, which may not appeal to your oh so liberal tastes

[hoorta]

Today, he looked like we'd hoped Stallworth looked. It's amazing what a supplemental weapon (in addition to your #1 WR and TE) can do for an offense (duh.).

Yeah, Stallworth really screwed up our season.

 

And Phil deserves some of the blame as well. Look at how all the other FA receivers we discussed this spring have done compared to Stallworth:

 

• : 30 catches, 621 yards, 4 TD

[/*:m:2n36iejt]

[*] Devery Henderson: 18 catches, 499 yards, 3 TD

[/*:m:2n36iejt]

[*] Bryant Johnson: 16 catches, 208 yards, 1 TD

[/*:m:2n36iejt]

[*] Justin Gage: 13 catches, 182 yards, 1 TD

[/*:m:2n36iejt]

[*] Jabar Gaffney: 12 catches, 118 yards, 1 TD

[/*:m:2n36iejt]

[*] Donte Stallworth: 11 catches, 104 yards, 1 TD[/*:m:2n36iejt]

 

His numbers are very close to Gaffney's, but Jabar signed a one year, $1.25 M deal. Stallworth got $10 M guaranteed.

 

That's not good.

 

The only one on that list that really stands out is Berrian, and he got Braylon Edwards cash. Also heard his interview on ESPN and he wouldn't have come here.

[Guest Masters]

Berrian who had missed more games that Stallworth ever had going into this offseason, whose previous career high was 71 rec and 951 yards in 2007 and wanted #1 WR money? Stallworth was a guy who for his career was putting up more yards on less catches before coming to CLE. Hindsight is 20/20. Plus, who is to say Berrian, or any of those guys would put up those numbers in CLE. We aren't exactly talking about guys who had been a proven producer, or a sure bet even when first drafted. This isn't like assuming Adrian Peterson would play lights out no matter whose uni he put on.

[Mr. Broken]

If I were looking to ship DA for the best deal, I would go to the worst deal maker in the league, send him to the Black Hole to talk to Mr. Davis.

[plumcrazy73]

ok but you have SF who I think will be in the market for a QB, possible Seahawks too! Along with the Rams maybe, Min, and I think KC is still going to seriously think about it. MIA would not suprise me to see them still looking too. THe Lions and the Cardinal too. Tampa loves QB's.

[Guest Aloysius]

Jabar Gaffney's stats from Thursday night: 7 catches, 86 yards, 1 TD.

 

Like I said, dude may not be a world-beater, but he's capable of being an effective third option in the passing game.

[Tobalaz]

I stated something very positive about DA, which you overlooked because you like to agrue. I think he could do well in Min with the type of team they have, he couldnt do well in Cleveland because we dont have that top in RB or the shut down defense needed for a qb like DA to do well. I think he is a nice guy and I dont want him to fail, I just dont want him to take the Browns down with him with his one dimensional style of play.

 

 

Alright well thats point well taken.

 

But if you trade him tomorrow who is your backup? Dorsey?

Isn't Joey Harrington and Jamarcus Russell, err, Donte Culpepper out there floating around?

 

Really though, best bet is to keep both for now. Quinn might go down and DA will light it up against an easy opponent and we'll want to keep him again.

[Flugel]

Anyone watching a smart, poised, patient Tyler Thigpen playing very well against the Chargers? And this is with zero running game to speak of.

 

MIN or bust????? MIA isn't giving anything up with Henne still waiting to take his turn. Any other possible suitors?

 

All I can see is Detroit if there's a franchise willing to call that a starting QB. He's a backup for any franchise but Detroit.

Quinn AND Dorsey would have won 10 games in 2007. We didn't even REQUIRE a QB the last time we played buffalo. All we needed was someone to volunteer to handoff and throw every pass out of bounds as the 2 point Safety became the game winning score.

- Tom F.

[Legacy Fan]

.. and DA will light it up against an easy opponent and we'll want to keep him again...

Are there any of those left on our schedule??

[Tobalaz]

Are there any of those left on our schedule??

We still play Cincy one more time right?