Brady Quinn, be careful what you ask for

[cmac12]

"Bash DA all you want, but I guaran-f-in-tee Braylon Edwards would have found the endzone by now."

 

He'd also have 3-4 int's right now with 1-2 pick 6's.

 

Anyways, just wondering why all the guys wanting to bench Quinn after two games (yes, two, not 5...a new HC and OC and new system) weren't wanting to bench DA after what 11 games in a row that were mostly pisspoor? Why do you have such a short leash on Quinn when you kept giving DA 5, 6, 11, 23 games or something like that to prove he's a backup QB in the NFL?

 

DA got his 20+ games...Quinn should get the same treatment.

 

If you want to blame ANYONE...blame Daboll and St. Clair! Quinn runs the plays the OC calls....well tries to run them if he's not running for his life cuz St. Clair let another guy go by him.

And what do you base the assumption that DA would have 3 - 4 interceptions with 1 - 2 pick 6's? Is it that he averages 1.29 turnovers a game (that is not 3 or 4 interceptions) not the 2.0 turnovers we currently are getting? I made a really long post in a few places that showed DA's and BQ's career (so far) interception and TD rates. Basically DA is about twice as likely to throw a TD as BQ and they have very similar interception rates per game, though DA's is slightly higher but not by allot.

 

DA got a leash because he actually played well when he became the starter. So far BQ has not played well. Do you really think that if DA started 2007 with back to back games like BQ has played that not everybody would be calling for his head?

 

BQ is getting the same treatment that DA got when he started to play bad. When BQ starts to play well then he will also get the same praise (even more I am sure) as DA got in the first half of 2007.

 

Until BQ plays well why would you expect anybody to do anything but attack him. That is what we all did to DA, when you play bad as the QB you get attacked. Maybe DA got a little more of a break but that is because he actually won games and started off playing well.

 

And as far as blaming the OC, then it was not DA's fault? It was Chuds fault. Great to know, then that means that when DA played well it was inspite of Chud but when he failed it was because of Chud. That is just so great to know.

[Guest AdaM]

Quinn will get his time but if he doesnt show promise by the trade deadline hes either on the bench or on a new team. Plain and simple if Quinn isnt the starter for the future and still remains on the team after the deadline the GM needs to be fired. No way can we take on a 5 mil bonus just for sh*ts and giggles.

 

My opinions tend to be unpopular I know but look at the bright side, all the Ohio homers might have a chance to have Tony Pike on the roster next year. (who is better the Brady Quinn)

 

 

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[damajuki]

And what do you base the assumption that DA would have 3 - 4 interceptions with 1 - 2 pick 6's? Is it that he averages 1.29 turnovers a game (that is not 3 or 4 interceptions) not the 2.0 turnovers we currently are getting? I made a really long post in a few places that showed DA's and BQ's career (so far) interception and TD rates. Basically DA is about twice as likely to throw a TD as BQ and they have very similar interception rates per game, though DA's is slightly higher but not by allot.

How can you seriously compare BQ's 5 starts (3 healthy) to DA's 25+?

 

It's ridiculous how far the QB discussion has devolved and to what extent people will dissect the numbers to make their case.

 

I'm so over it. The bottom line remains unchanged:

 

DA failed as a starter. BQ has yet to show he's any better.

 

That's the whole pathetic story. Enough with the stat massaging already.

[Zombo]

Me? I'd rather actually try to win the game, in whatever form that takes.

 

 

Which is exactly what I said Jook.

 

I'd rather have a chance to win with Anderson then dink and dunk to 6 points of relevant offense each week with Quinn.

 

I think Anderson gives us a better chance to win football games right now.

 

Quinn wasn't sold to us as "we like Derek, but we're going to get Quinn some experience and see what he has", he was sold to us as "we are going to start the guy that gives us the best chance to win a football game", sorry, but after two weeks of Quinn I'm starting to feel strongly that the other guy gives us a better chance to win, and if Mangini really means what he says, he's not going to go with the struggling guy much longer.

 

Quinn is 1-4 and hasn't has a good game since his first, which was against an awful defense. He has shown no big play ability, he is turning it over twice a game, he's not avoiding sacks and he's not getting us in the end zone ... he is Charlie Freaking Frye.

 

I'd give him one more week ... then I'd turn to ol' Horseballs and try and win some games.

 

Zombo

[hiwaygal]

I think Anderson gives us a better chance to win football games right now.

 

Zombo

 

 

Zombo (and others)...I understand your position, I really do.

 

But this is the question I have...do you believe DA is the franchise QB of the future of the Browns? (I can't remember everyones thoughts on this.)

 

If YES, then by all means, play Quinn a couple more times and then get ready to trade him.

 

If NO, then all you are settling for is a 'couple of wins'. And that seems kinda weird. I was under the impression we wanted a long term, consistenty well performing team. If DA isn't going to give that to us (and maybe neither is Quinn, I still think it's too soon to tell) why should we just settle for a couple of wins? Just so we can say "HA! we got one" or so we don't look as bad as Detroit last year?

 

Personally, I'd rather give up some wins now if it means the long term goal is the consistent well-performing team. One that has the longevity, cohesiveness, and continuity to get us in the top every single stinkin' year! lol

[Greythan]

All that matters (again, remember Lum's sage counsel from last year) is what the staff thinks.

 

They disagree with Z: they feel Quinn gives us the best chance.

 

There's probably a little bit of "who has the higher ceiling" in there too, but that would further support their belief in Quinn and/or feeling that DA's ceiling is sufficient. Either way, its hardly an endorsement of DA. (i.e., the entire point of let's hope Quinn is the real deal because the staff has essentially told us that DA isn't.)

[Zombo]

Zombo, serious question here.

 

What if even with all his struggles, Mangini still feels Quinn gives us the best chance to win (either now or in the future) and doesn't turn to old Horseballs even if Quinn loses 40-0 this weekend?

 

Does that mean you are giving up on Mangini already too?

 

Just trying to guage what you think of our coach really. I think we're clear on our QB stances, and they are not that far apart.

 

I would be surprised if Mangini stuck with him in that scenario. If he did I would be more skeptical of Mangini. But I give a new coach a lot more rope than a QB. Sometimes it takes a while to "get" a coach, and I always assume that they not only know a lot more than we do ... but there is a lot more behind the scenes that we don't know about . With QBs I am patient if I see good signs, a good skillset, etc. ... with Quinn I am really unimpressed so far.

 

I'm not as old as Balpeen, but when he says "I know a stinker when I see it", I think I am getting better at stinker discovery too. I fell for Tim Couch and gave him all the patience in the world, with Quinn we have a guy behind him the same age with a bigger arm, a quicker release, that has already won games for us ... so I am not giving him a lot of rope. Play well or let Derek take over.

 

Zombo

[Zombo]

Zombo (and others)...I understand your position, I really do.

 

But this is the question I have...do you believe DA is the franchise QB of the future of the Browns? (I can't remember everyones thoughts on this.)

 

Possibly. He has shown a lot of good things. He has one of the top arms in the league. He gets rid of the ball, his teammates seem to like to play for him. He's talented, athletic, good guy ... he has just shown inconsistency, as do a lot of QBs, and accuracy problems which are troubling. It is not out of the realm of possibilities for a young QB to greatly improve his accuracy though.

 

If Quinn keeps smelling like a dud, then, yes, I'd like to see more out of Anderson see if maybe he is the guy. I'm not convinced he's not.

 

Zombo

[Greythan]

same age with a bigger arm, a quicker release, that has already won games for us

How did this guy lose his starting job? Seriously, I'd be curious for the "bring in DA now" crew's opinion. You must REALLY be worried about our head coach considering in your opinion he completely and utterly failed in selecting the right starting QB.

[Zombo]

All that matters (again, remember Lum's sage counsel from last year) is what the staff thinks.

 

They disagree with Z:

 

You don't know that. Z says give Quinn another start and if he is awful again, then pull the plug on him for now.

 

Mangini may feel the same way.

 

I hope we don't have to find out.

 

Zombo

[DawgTracker]

Mangini made a comment that they would have a good sample of what Quinn had to offer after four games, because this would be against a variety of teams. So, I would be very surprised that anything happens before the 5th game which I think is fair.

 

I had many of these fears about Quinn but I am hoping he proves me wrong and turns into Bernie Kosar this season.

[Zombo]

How did this guy lose his starting job? Seriously, I'd be curious for the "bring in DA now" crew's opinion. You must REALLY be worried about our head coach considering in your opinion he completely and utterly failed in selecting the right starting QB.

 

See my reply to JBDDFABBJABDF regarding my thoughts on the coach.

 

I think the coach, and myself, thought Quinn had more to bring to the table than he has.

 

I think Quinn has disappointed. Which brings the whole issue back into review.

 

If Quinn played better, he would put the issue to bed.

 

Zombo

[Greythan]

You don't know that.

Sure I do. Quinn's starting.

 

I get your point, I just completely disagree with your assessment of DA. I think we need to sufficiently invest this year in Quinn to ensure we know what we've got in him. If Mangini draws his conclusion this week I'd be shocked and concerned. (i.e., how did he miss a complete failure of a QB who only lasted 3 starts.)

 

Here's my bottom line: If BQ gives way to DA for performance issues, we're back in the market for a QB. You believe further investment in DA is a good bet. I don't.

[Guest ATENEARS]

But this is the question I have...do you believe DA is the franchise QB of the future of the Browns? (I can't remember everyones thoughts on this.)

 

Personally, I'm not convinced either BQ or DA are not the franchise future ... they are both young.

 

I just have a baseball coaches mentality, where I like to keep my players playing with confidence and fresh. I'd have handled the two of them much differently all the way along, kepted them both honed, kept both's confidence up, grew both, and one probably wouldn't be here still because we would have dressed them up so well they would have been traded for.

 

At this point in this botched handling of two young QB's with each individual skills to build around, I don't think you could screw it up any worst than it already has been.

 

Quinn should have had more playing time experience, and Anderson should have been handled differently where he still had full confidence in himself as well as from his teamates, organization, and fans.

 

However, they let one die on a vine and the other rot on the bench, and now both are among the lowest rated QB's in the league.

[Zombo]

Sure I do. Quinn's starting.

Which is exactly what Z wants.

 

I said he deserves a third start.

 

So how do you know Mangini doesn't agree with me?

 

Zombo

[Greythan]

Great post Stan.

[Greythan]

Semantics I guess Z. I was making the point that right now Mangini is telling us Quinn gives us the best chance to win and/or is the guy to develop. I don't know what Mangini has thought through should Quinn lay an egg this weekend.

[hiwaygal]

I agree 100% with your assessment, Stan. And only wish our coaches had felt the same way over the past few years.

 

It really sucks for both of them because they both could have (and maybe still could be) great given the right time and circumstances. Unfortunately, we are running out of patience and want immediate gratification.

 

Yeah, I wanted BQ to totally WOW us as well and he hasn't. I can't for the life of me understand how he seemed to look so much better last year and in the pre-season and now it's like a curtain dropped or something. Maybe it is the playcalling...I sure as heck don't know.

 

But thanks to you and Z for answering the question.

[ballpeen]

Which is exactly what Z wants.

 

I said he deserves a third start.

 

So how do you know Mangini doesn't agree with me?

 

Zombo

 

On the NFL net earlier today they had a segment about qbs on the hot seat, and BQ was a big portion of the segment.

 

Martz said he would have a hard time sticking with Quinn much longer. Basically it was because the team was dumbing down the O in order to help him, and if you have to do that, you have to pull him.

 

[Greythan]

On the NFL net earlier today they had a segment about qbs on the hot seat, and BQ was a big portion of the segment.

 

Martz said he would have a hard time sticking with Quinn much longer. Basically it was because the team was dumbing down the O in order to help him, and if you have to do that, you have to pull him.

I don't put much credence in this, but let's suppose Martz's analysis is spot on.

 

That puts Mangini in the same coaching class as RAC. After all who was the last HC we had to completely botch a preseason evaluation? Sure, RAC's was worse as it only took one game. If Quinn is benched after another game or two there isn't much difference. Whiff!

[hiwaygal]

On the NFL net earlier today they had a segment about qbs on the hot seat, and BQ was a big portion of the segment.

 

Martz said he would have a hard time sticking with Quinn much longer. Basically it was because the team was dumbing down the O in order to help him, and if you have to do that, you have to pull him.

 

 

Meh...I take half of what the media says with a grain of salt and the other half goes in one ear and out the other.

 

These guys are not on the field, in the locker room, in the offices every day with these guys. They are making assumptions because people think they know so much more about the game. And they might...but they also are worred about ratings and talking about known controversial subjects and they are not involved in coaching (although some of them might have been at one time).

 

I don't believe the team is 'dumbing down the O' in order to help Quinn. They may be dumbing it down to help the entire O learn a new system, new coach, new whatever. But that doesn't rest solely on Quinn. There are lots of others who are learning new positions (Cribbs) and new systems (all the rookies) and new plays (the entire team).

 

 

[pl4tinum]

On the NFL net earlier today they had a segment about qbs on the hot seat, and BQ was a big portion of the segment.

 

Martz said he would have a hard time sticking with Quinn much longer. Basically it was because the team was dumbing down the O in order to help him, and if you have to do that, you have to pull him.

 

I doubt they're dumbing down the O, because they're allowing him to audible.

[hammertime]

Personally, I'm not convinced either BQ or DA are not the franchise future ... they are both young.

 

I just have a baseball coaches mentality, where I like to keep my players playing with confidence and fresh. I'd have handled the two of them much differently all the way along, kepted them both honed, kept both's confidence up, grew both, and one probably wouldn't be here still because we would have dressed them up so well they would have been traded for.

 

At this point in this botched handling of two young QB's with each individual skills to build around, I don't think you could screw it up any worst than it already has been.

 

Quinn should have had more playing time experience, and Anderson should have been handled differently where he still had full confidence in himself as well as from his teamates, organization, and fans.

 

However, they let one die on a vine and the other rot on the bench, and now both are among the lowest rated QB's in the league.

 

This is probaly the most accurate post that could be made without disparaging either qb. And it trickles down to more than just our QB.

Every player on the roster has some confused concept of what direction the Browns will go next.

[82OZZIE82]

Sorry, Ozzie, you just got crushed.

 

Yeah, then all DA and BE did was end up crushing pineapples in February while in Honolulu at the Pro Bowl.

[Drunkandstoopid]

How did this guy lose his starting job? Seriously, I'd be curious for the "bring in DA now" crew's opinion. You must REALLY be worried about our head coach considering in your opinion he completely and utterly failed in selecting the right starting QB.

 

DA lost his job winning three of his last five starts, a dropped BE pass from winning 4 of 5, with a lot of unhappy fans.

 

For BQ, it's a little early yet, but my guess is that if the losses and inability to move the ball continues, 0 and 16 is not in the mix of possibilities for him.

[BrownsFan17]

He may be a dink and dunker but god he has great abs!!!

 

OK, on a serious note, I am having a hard time with Quinn's lack of production. Aaron Rodgers rode the bench for a few years and came out gangbusters. Perhaps I am being a bit unrealistic but I was hoping to see at least a glimmer of that from Quinn. Hopefully, we will see some improvement on Sunday.

[pl4tinum]

Mangini needs to find out what Quinn is made of or it will mar his tenure. I think maybe he knows Quinn isn't up to NFL standards and is using the security of his first season on the job to rid himself of Quinn for good by exposing him and running horrible plays for him. Lol Lol! YOU NEVER KNOW!

[RestinPeace]

People whine about Quinn even though:

1.This isn't a vertical offense or rely on medium/long passes

2.The WR's don't run the right routes enough

3.The OL isn't good in pass blocking(yet)

4.The OL isn't good at run blocking(yet)

5.The HC/OC are being conservative starting things off

6.JL is old and getting older

 

DA just doesn't fit this system. We would have to make "serious" changes to the offense for him to run it and in the long run, would provide none of the other starters the long term training for what this system offers. Yeah, if BQ got hurt in a pinch we could adapt things for the remainder of the season, but that wouldn't be a good thing.

 

You guys are asking for Quinn to be Tom Brady 2003 when he is more like Tom Brady in early 2001 with less cohesion and talent on the offense. That is simply to much. He can't win the game by himself. He isn't going to make amazing pass after amazing pass downfield to move the team down the field. The rest of the guys need to step up. Run the ball better, the WR's run better routes, get better cohesion in practice.

[Sez.EJ]

Aaron Rodgers is a great QB who benefitted from a HOF QB quinn had DA,Frye and Dorsey ,Rodgers was studying the same system consistently his entire time on the bench and came on to the field with the same system,we have had shit.

 

To early to grade Quinn given what we have but he has yet to be impressive,sooner or later the light comes on or it doesnt.

Not to mention a excellent recieving group that goes 5 deep, a very good OL, a run game and a defense.. It's like comparing apples and corvettes.

[DAisheretostay1]

Leading up to the season, all we heard on this board is Quinn this, Quinn that, Quinn for President, yadda damn yadda Brady yadda. Two games into his savior campaign, we're a dreadul 0-2 with nothing but bickering, lost hope, and folks bailing ship. Is BQ really that bad or is this an expected natural progression of a guy learning a system he will eventually thrive in (i.e. Peyton Manning or Troy Aikman? DA backers are loving this and leading the clammering to stick him back in already. Based on what we've seen thus far, would it necessarily be a bad idea or do we say the hell with the season in exchange for Quinn getting starter expereince? Bash DA all you want, but I guaran-f-in-tee Braylon Edwards would have found the endzone by now.

 

45 years and counting...

 

I agree wtih all of your post. Braylon should have found the endzone atleast three times. Since the insuffient passing game of throwing down field. Braylon has lost three atleast touchdowns.