QB Discussion (pre Oct 11th game)

[hammertime]

It's going to be ... it sure is nice to win football games again!

 

Zombo

 

That is an excellent stand.

 

Stay true to your beleif and as wishy washy as reply as yours was how could any body back baby into a corner.

 

 

My say? whatever!

[Zombo]

That is an excellent stand.

 

Stay true to your beleif and as wishy washy as reply as yours was how could any body back baby into a corner.

 

 

My say? whatever!

 

Ummm ... saying we are going to win games now is wishy washy?

 

Zombo

--I bet we wish wash Buffalo's ass tomorrow.

[Flugel]

Some of those first 6 weeks the O was some, but from little to no help from Flacco (let's not pretend the Browns D and running game is even in the same league as the Ravens). My simple point is, 5 1/2 games isn't enough time to judge a QB, and the Ravens are better off for not having that type of mentality.

 

This is his 3rd year here; so I think he should have been more obvious in practice on a daily basis which he wasn't. Everybody fussed Mangini took too long to make a decision. As much as I wanted Quinn to show me this guy I had hoped we drafted - there was a reason Mangini didn't just hand him the job. Had Quinn made it blatantly obvious that would have been extremely easy to do at any point in time. That being the case, he counted every throw in practice and games from the time training camp started right up until the QB change.

 

I remembered posting when all the rumors were it was going to be Quinn (with me firmly entrenched in his corner) that the starting job wasn't going to be decided in training camp as much as it is decided by who can make this team win more consistently. Well, we weren't even competitive with Quinn while we took a 3-1 team to OT with the alternative.

 

I'm not directing this at you Masters; but we have WAY too many people worrying about Loverboy delivering his sarcastic "ladies and gentlemen of the jury" speech instead of WHO actually upped everyone's game on Sunday. Quinn started the first 3 games and it looked like we were attacking people with pawns so we got our checkmate verdicts by the 2nd and 3rd quarters. DA started the 4th game and erased a 14 point deficit while it looked like we had alot more than just pawns to attack the opponent with. You throw to those deeper targets and it moves safeties out of the box, which improved daylight for our RB. BTW, our oline CAN block folks.

 

Speaking of oline, has anyone even noticed that Joe Thomas completely shutout 2 elite pass rushers this season? The only time I heard Jared Allen's name in the opener was when they announced starting lineups. Same thing with Atwaan Odom from Cincy. For all the sacks those 2 stud have - they got ZERO vrs Joe Thomas.

 

Where I start to get annoyed is when I hear people say our coaching sucks, our oline sucks, our running game sucks, our receivers suck, our playcalling sucks - all for the mere convenience of Quinn hasn't had a chance to succeed this year. The funny thing is all those gripes disappeared like a Houdini rabbitt last Sunday. ALL QBs have audibles as well primary, secondary, tertiary and even the quad dump-off targets on any given pass play. Quinn seemed to heavily favor the closer targets which left me pondering is he even LOOKING at the primary or secondary targets on deeper pass plays?

- Tom F.

[lemosley01]

This is one of those delusional posts that drive me absolutely INSANE!!!!! Quinn, in no way, shape, or form moved the team better. He did have less interceptions so good for him. But the only times he moved the team even sopmewhat well was against 2nd team defenses. He absolutely positively did not move the team better. Every drive that DA had, we kept on moving downfield. Yes, interceptions were there but he did, beyond a shadow of a doubt, move the team better. You can say that you liked Quinn better, but please don't try and say he moved the team better that is just fabricated shameless BS.

 

This kills me because that is one of the CONCRETE reasons I know he will never be good. I went to three training camp sessions this year and have watched every preseason and regular season game and he has looked EXACTLY the same in all situations. He looks EXACTLY the same as he did in his rookie year! The same things that he did poorly in practice and preseason he was doing in the regular season. That is why ANYBODY who actually watches football without a hard on for ol' #10 can see that the kid has peaked and will NEVER be a productive starter in this league.

 

DA may not be the hero we have all been waiting for but he is without a doubt, a better QB than Quinn. And the argument that he needs to develope is horse-shit. It's his 3rd year. If he were half of what Quinnies think and hope he is, he would have done SOMETHING while on the field. I mean, he did absolutely nothing with his time! Please people, let it die. The kid is just another in a looooong list of Savage's big swings and misses. He is not the exception..............................................I'm spent.

 

So...quinn is a swing and a miss but DA, somehow isn't. LOL. Love is blind. I know.

 

(PS, it's DAs 4th year. I don't think he needs any time to develop either; certainly, lack of snaps and chemistry shouldn't be an excuse. And moving the team better doesn't == wins. We're still 0-4).

[Guest Masters]

This is his 3rd year here; so I think he should have been more obvious in practice on a daily basis which he wasn't. Everybody fussed Mangini took too long to make a decision. As much as I wanted Quinn to show me this guy I had hoped we drafted - there was a reason Mangini didn't just hand him the job. Had Quinn made it blatantly obvious that would have been extremely easy to do at any point in time. That being the case, he counted every throw in practice and games from the time training camp started right up until the QB change.

 

I remembered posting when all the rumors were it was going to be Quinn (with me firmly entrenched in his corner) that the starting job wasn't going to be decided in training camp as much as it is decided by who can make this team win more consistently. Well, we weren't even competitive with Quinn while we took a 3-1 team to OT with the alternative.

 

I'm not directing this at you Masters; but we have WAY too many people worrying about Loverboy delivering his sarcastic "ladies and gentlemen of the jury" speech instead of WHO actually upped everyone's game on Sunday. Quinn started the first 3 games and it looked like we were attacking people with pawns so we got our checkmate verdicts by the 2nd and 3rd quarters. DA started the 4th game and erased a 14 point deficit while it looked like we had alot more than just pawns to attack the opponent with. You throw to those deeper targets and it moves safeties out of the box, which improved daylight for our RB. BTW, our oline CAN block folks.

 

Speaking of oline, has anyone even noticed that Joe Thomas completely shutout 2 elite pass rushers this season? The only time I heard Jared Allen's name in the opener was when they announced starting lineups. Same thing with Atwaan Odom from Cincy. For all the sacks those 2 stud have - they got ZERO vrs Joe Thomas.

 

Where I start to get annoyed is when I hear people say our coaching sucks, our oline sucks, our running game sucks, our receivers suck, our playcalling sucks - all for the mere convenience of Quinn hasn't had a chance to succeed this year. The funny thing is all those gripes disappeared like a Houdini rabbitt last Sunday. ALL QBs have audibles as well primary, secondary, tertiary and even the quad dump-off targets on any given pass play. Quinn seemed to heavily favor the closer targets which left me pondering is he even LOOKING at the primary or secondary targets on deeper pass plays?

- Tom F.

 

Flug, I don't disagree with much that you said. All I am saying is 5 1/2 games is not enough time to determine a QBs fate. Especially not when one of those was really good.

 

Just remember, when Quinn played this year, on the majority of plays his WR options were Edwards, who now everyone is saying sucked and ran poor routes, and Cribbs.

 

I know others saw leaps of improvement on the O, but I did't. I saw minor improvement against the weakest opponent CLE has faced, and a loss. I saw nothing last Sunday that made me feel the O was capable of winning a game with DA. It was a slightly more exciting loss, but still a loss. If I had to bet, I'd bet this week the O looks like the one we saw the first 3 games last season.

 

[mopaji]

So...quinn is a swing and a miss but DA, somehow isn't. LOL. Love is blind. I know.

 

(PS, it's DAs 4th year. I don't think he needs any time to develop either; certainly, lack of snaps and chemistry shouldn't be an excuse. And moving the team better doesn't == wins. We're still 0-4).

 

DA was a 7th round pick that was signed after the ravens released him for qb depth and to see if he could develope. It was hardly a big swing and a miss.

 

And it is his 4th year and his 5th offensive coordinator AND he is better than Quinn at this point. Quinn's developement has frozen.

[Sez.EJ]

Andersons development froze 2 years ago. 2 years ago the threw into double coverage all the time... 4 int's in 5 quarters this year. making the same mistakes he has made for the past 2 years.. I see no development from him.. I'll take my shot with Quinn. He looked great last year in limited duty.. Not sure what happened so far this year.. but I am willing to see more. Even the raiders have been patient with JaMarcus Russell who looks terrible.But even crazy Al Davis knows you have to let a young QB playout a season to see what you have.

[Guest Masters]

DA was a 7th round pick that was signed after the ravens released him for qb depth and to see if he could develope. It was hardly a big swing and a miss.

 

And it is his 4th year and his 5th offensive coordinator AND he is better than Quinn at this point. Quinn's developement has frozen.

 

4th OC, not 5th, and that is only if you count his brief time in BALT. Quinn has had 2 in his 3 years. Of course DA is better today and more developed. He's seen almost 30 NFL starts.

 

 

[lemosley01]

DA was a 7th round pick that was signed after the ravens released him for qb depth and to see if he could develope. It was hardly a big swing and a miss.

 

And it is his 4th year and his 5th offensive coordinator AND he is better than Quinn at this point. Quinn's developement has frozen.

 

A guy who was signed to a big contract after a good 1/2 season where he benefitted from a level of play that the guys around him have never replicated since. A guy who has since never proven he is worth that contract.

 

I'd call that a 'swing and a miss'. You guys are worried about the money Quinn makes, yet Anderson has taken WAY more from the Browns thus far.

 

And, Anderson SHOULD be better - he has many more NFL games under his belt. Duh.

[Flugel]

Flug, I don't disagree with much that you said. All I am saying is 5 1/2 games is not enough time to determine a QBs fate. Especially not when one of those was really good.

 

Just remember, when Quinn played this year, on the majority of plays his WR options were Edwards, who now everyone is saying sucked and ran poor routes, and Cribbs.

 

I know others saw leaps of improvement on the O, but I did't. I saw minor improvement against the weakest opponent CLE has faced, and a loss. I saw nothing last Sunday that made me feel the O was capable of winning a game with DA. It was a slightly more exciting loss, but still a loss. If I had to bet, I'd bet this week the O looks like the one we saw the first 3 games last season.

 

I hear ya Masters but Quinn has been here 3 years to erase any doubts about him on the practice field. Back in the stone ages when I played, if I couldn't block somebody in practice I wouldn't have seen the field on game day. Same thing applies to the QB position about throwing the ball. Quinn has had 2.5 training canmps/OTAs and this being season #3 - I think he should have shown me more than a passing game with reading glasses. I don't think we're looking at a guy ready for better things elsewhere. He just doesn't see the field at the speed of the game NOR does he know where everyone else is on the field when we were witnessing his stage fright. He's had 1 very good start in 6 games and we LOST. The night we picked off trent Edwards 4 times, we kicked 5 FGs and Harrison had an 80 yard TD run. ALOT of QBs can win when they get that many turnovers on the oppoents' side of the 50.

 

As for competitiveness, there's a difference between getting blown out and being called the worst team in football by many to extending regulation vrs a 3-1 team. Cincy's ONLY loss was on a lucky immaculate reception type of bounce vrs a currently undefeated team. Not only that, their franchise QB is healthy for the first time.

 

Harrison rushed for about 120 yards, which is a HUGE improvement for this team.

 

MoMass had over 140 yards receiving after Braylon dropped 2 passes early. It's a HUGE difference when OTHER targets downfield are seen. Don't think Braylon hasn't dropped passes on other QBs taking snaps. It's how one handles that. When Braylon didn't drop passes vrs the NY Giants - we blew their doors off.

 

Time of possession over the final 3 quarters allowed us to erase the deficit, which was an enormous difference over the 1st 3 weeks. Oline didn't suck AND Odom was leading the conference in sacks heading into that matchup. Let's not downplay that. Tenn misses him every bit as much as they miss Haynesworth on their anemic pass rush.

 

As for predicting how this team will look from week to week - I'm terrible at that. I hope you're wrong about us looking bad this week. I'm not saying DA is our long term future, I'm just saying Quinn isn't looking like the lesser of 2 evils at this time. I don't want to spend the next 12 weeks looking like the first 3 weeks. I needed to see at least a COUPLE positive flashes of brilliance from Quinn which I didn't see.

 

Convenient or not, our opponents will respect DA's pass more than Quinn's enough for that to matter in our running game. When Quinn starts, they could treat our offense the same way the Miami Huirricanes used to treat the Oklahoma wishbone with all 11 defenders playing run because there's ZERO chance of the pass burning them. I didn't see Safeties caught cheating up in the box last week and it was our best day running the ball by far.

 

This being the case, if Buffalo is weakest against the run and their Safeties want to cheat up - I now know MoMass will be seen. What I can't predict is if DA will be accurate. Wish I could but I can't. I just like that level of respect that gets commanded which was completely missing in weeks 1-3. End result? Nobody bellyached about playcalling, oline, Receivers/drops, running game, time of possession/defense resting, etc.

- Tom F.

[Flugel]

A guy who was signed to a big contract after a good 1/2 season where he benefitted from a level of play that the guys around him have never replicated since. A guy who has since never proven he is worth that contract.

 

I'd call that a 'swing and a miss'. You guys are worried about the money Quinn makes, yet Anderson has taken WAY more from the Browns thus far.

 

And, Anderson SHOULD be better - he has many more NFL games under his belt. Duh.

 

And then there's the Donovan McNabb story in Philly where the 1st round QB erased all doubts within half the season for the SAME tream that was piss poor enough to earn the first pick after an expansion team right?

 

All of sudden Philly had an oline that COULD block people virtually overnight and the art of losing translated into 5 Conference Championship appearances in 1 decade. THAT is when you know you got the right guy. When everyone around him is able to up their game because he's THAT good.

 

Who here even knew MoMass was running routes in weeks 1-3? That's not Quinn's brilliance shining through when he resorted to tertiary and quad dump-offs on every single play. It just isn't.

 

MAYBE the reason Smardizja was such a BIG target for him is because the dude is about 6'8" which means all you gotta do most of the time is put the ball in his area code and the levers on 6'8" can go as far as the next area code. On top of that, the NFL brings tighter coverages, better closing speeds and better vertical leaps from the DBs. I'm thinking that's what has left Quinn so uncondfident with his ability on game day more than I want to blame everyone from the towel boys to every coach. And with Quinn, many weren't stopping there - they were saying our oline stunk, fire the OC and Mangini sucks and more...

 

If you're spending every waking moment looking for the perfect excuse for Quinn - the ONLY person that needs convincing is you. If a 1st round tackle shows up and gets beat every day in practice, he won't see the field on Sunday. QBs that don't prove they're ready get the same treatment. That's why I keep asking WHEN does Quinn become accoutnable in all this?

 

ALOT of people travelled to training camp when it wasn't LIVE rushing the QBs and Quinn wasn't looking brilliant based on what I read. If he was right - I think he would have provided more clues to the right people by now. Mangini TRIED to give him his first chance and within 3 weeks - half our fanbase and half the media looked like they already wanted him fired.

 

MAYBE, just maybe, there was a valid reason Quinn dropped all the way to 24th overall. There were varied reports on HOW many experts/personnel gurus perceived him.

- Tom F.

[Gips]

I have always percieved BQ as being "setup to fail" unintentionally or not who knows.. there was no jel on the line or syncronization with the WRs and being like a rookie all 3 defenses bq faces stuffed the box on him...he was playing under bad circumstances against very good teams with both bad and limited playcalling but nevertheless he did nothing on his end to offset the situation..or to otherwise indicate he could deal with it or even give mangini a reason to think twice before benching him...

 

I believe DA is also on a short leash but has been given a better playbook a more jelled line and now new targets that arent premarked...to me a loss to cincy an the game against buffalo are not the games that will reveal DA as improved or failsauce..its more likely the greenbay and steeler games that will help answer some questions about both DA and our rooks...

[Guest Masters]

If you're spending every waking moment looking for the perfect excuse for Quinn - the ONLY person that needs convincing is you. If a 1st round tackle shows up and gets beat every day in practice, he won't see the field on Sunday. QBs that don't prove they're ready get the same treatment. That's why I keep asking WHEN does Quinn become accoutnable in all this?

 

 

MAYBE, just maybe, there was a valid reason Quinn dropped all the way to 24th overall. There were varied reports on HOW many experts/personnel gurus perceived him.

- Tom F.

 

Flugs, just keep in mind, what you wrote in that 1st statement applies just as much to DA as it does Quinn. Same for the second statement. There was a reason a guy w/ the physical tools fo DA was taken in round 6 and placed on waivers.

 

While your whole post was good, it's off the mark to what it was in response to, imo.

[Drunkandstoopid]

A guy who was signed to a big contract after a good 1/2 season where he benefitted from a level of play that the guys around him have never replicated since. A guy who has since never proven he is worth that contract.

 

I'd call that a 'swing and a miss'. You guys are worried about the money Quinn makes, yet Anderson has taken WAY more from the Browns thus far.

 

And, Anderson SHOULD be better - he has many more NFL games under his belt. Duh.

 

 

The thing is.... all the players suddenly play better when DA is in....

 

Happened in '07, appears to be happening again in '09. '08 had so many goings on early on, what with DA's concussion, injuries at line and receiver and elsewhere, yet the team still was much more competitive with him in there than without him. The ONLY win without him was giftwrapped by several ints from Trent Edwards.

 

If the team plays more competitively with him in than with him out, he's worth the money he earns.

[TheBestPlayersPlay]

Please?

[hammertime]

There is no point in arguing that Quinn stunk the joint up so far this year.

 

But i'm curious as to what your angle is gonna be after a few games of the usual DA.

 

God forbid the upper echelon of quality Brownsboard posters would have to consent the fact that they backed the wrong horse.

 

I'm sure that would be a graceful thread.

 

But then again i'm sure theres a backup plan to avoid reality.

 

 

The trading deadline has passed. Have your views been altered by DA's play? Do you think DA will be on our roster next year. I still thinks he's a bum and the other guy bettter figure stuff out, real quick.

 

P.S.- this is still a nice set up for fans.