Browns Offensive Line

[Guest CardDawg]

Alex Mack, pulling out as lead block for Cribbs on End-around ... was a thing of beauty, huh?

 

One thing that has always sickened me is watching the 4pm games and thinking, "Is this the same league that the Browns play in?" Our guards don't pull-out and lead block, let alone our rookie center - but Sunday we seen a lot of different looks that we haven't seen executed so nicely in recent memory.

 

Joe Thomas and the opponent who lines up across from him are hardly mentioned - their names never called ... and that is an outstnding trait for an O-lineman.

 

Eric Steinbach got into the second tier a couple of times in run support, his man looking to have an advantage and angle on the hole that him and Mack sprung, yet Eric Steinbach still neutralized the guy and Jamal Lewis picked-up 8 on the carry (shhh ... we'll talk about Harrison taking it to the house another time).

 

Fraley went from being a washed up old has-been, to gaining some new life and looking great.

 

... and yes, St. Clair is still our starting RT, you just don't hear his name as often as you did when Quinn was dropping a little deep and St. Clair had no where to run his man up-field.

 

With Anderson dropping to shorter steps, and seeing over the pocket (although still getting the ball batted down in his face), we look way more comfortable forming the pocket. I think Quinn was getting too deep, and he has too to see the field as Anderson's 6'6" frame, but it gave St. Clair no room for error and no where to leverage his guy to.

 

I still think we could get a little wider spacing, although didn't notice it as much against the Washington Generals, err .. Buffalo Bills, I mean.

 

Heading into Pittsburgh is a great test for this group, let's see how far we can execute into the scheme this Sunday.

 

Maybe someday we can even run a screen play like the big boys, but we are getting there.

[Guest CardDawg]

If you haven't seen the play of Mack hiking the ball and pulling out to block for Cribbs, check this out below. It starts a half-minute or so into the video below. Pause it exactly at 0:47 seconds into the video and you can see Mack (#55) leading and Thomas (#73) taking his guy wide, and Stenbach (#65) holding the edge.

 

If you missed this play, you have to watch-it, they show it once and then replay it from a second angle. It was beautiful ... just watch Mack.

 

[RestinPeace]

The weakness of the Browns OL is the guards. They don't run block well enough for Mangini's conservative beliefs. These guys now are just holding down the fort.

[Guest CardDawg]

The weakness of the Browns OL is the guards. They don't run block well enough for Mangini's conservative beliefs. These guys now are just holding down the fort.

 

I still think it has to do a lot with their spacing. they may have been good pass blockers because they were hip-to-hip and formed a wall. Brady Quinn dropps back deeper, allowing the rush to come from the outside around the wall. DA set's up inside the wall and throws over the top.

 

However, in the run game, I'd much rather see them take the old Dallas Cowboy approach, open up the gaps, and take the DL's first move and drive them that direction, creating cut-back lanes and holes.

 

The way we line up so tight, we are expecting our O-line to pile drive people, and when facing 320-lb DT's of today, that ain't gonna happen. We end up forming a wall on runs, and our RB's pile into the backside of our OL.

 

I'm not an O-line guru, i'll leave this question up to someone else, but how do you do both without tipping off the play? How do you create your wall on passing downs, and widen your gaps on runs?

 

We seem to pick one, and that is why we are better at one aspect over the other.

[RestinPeace]

I still think it has to do a lot with their spacing. they may have been good pass blockers because they were hip-to-hip and formed a wall. Brady Quinn dropps back deeper, allowing the rush to come from the outside around the wall. DA set's up inside the wall and throws over the top.

 

However, in the run game, I'd much rather see them take the old Dallas Cowboy approach, open up the gaps, and take the DL's first move and drive them that direction, creating cut-back lanes and holes.

 

The way we line up so tight, we are expecting our O-line to pile drive people, and when facing 320-lb DT's of today, that ain't gonna happen.

 

I'm not an O-line guru, i'll leave this question up to someone else, but how do you do both without tipping off the play? How do you create your wall on passing downs, and widen your gaps on runs?

 

We seem to pick one, and that is why we are better at one aspect over the other.

 

It isn't spacing. They just aren't good enough run blockers. The Browns have had guard problems since the return. With Mangini, you simply got to run the ball. That means finding G's that will move those 320 pound DL. Really that simple.

[Flugel]

Alex Mack, pulling out as lead block for Cribbs on End-around ... was a thing of beauty, huh?

 

One thing that has always sickened me is watching the 4pm games and thinking, "Is this the same league that the Browns play in?" Our guards don't pull-out and lead block, let alone our rookie center - but Sunday we seen a lot of different looks that we haven't seen executed so nicely in recent memory.

 

Joe Thomas and the opponent who lines up across from him are hardly mentioned - their names never called ... and that is an outstnding trait for an O-lineman.

 

Eric Steinbach got into the second tier a couple of times in run support, his man looking to have an advantage and angle on the hole that him and Mack sprung, yet Eric Steinbach still neutralized the guy and Jamal Lewis picked-up 8 on the carry (shhh ... we'll talk about Harrison taking it to the house another time).

 

Fraley went from being a washed up old has-been, to gaining some new life and looking great.

 

... and yes, St. Clair is still our starting RT, you just don't hear his name as often as you did when Quinn was dropping a little deep and St. Clair had no where to run his man up-field.

 

With Anderson dropping to shorter steps, and seeing over the pocket (although still getting the ball batted down in his face), we look way more comfortable forming the pocket. I think Quinn was getting too deep, and he has too to see the field as Anderson's 6'6" frame, but it gave St. Clair no room for error and no where to leverage his guy to.

 

I still think we could get a little wider spacing, although didn't notice it as much against the Washington Generals, err .. Buffalo Bills, I mean.

 

Heading into Pittsburgh is a great test for this group, let's see how far we can execute into the scheme this Sunday.

 

Maybe someday we can even run a screen play like the big boys, but we are getting there.

 

 

Welcome aboard C-Dawg! You had me at Alex. When you enter this cyber dawgpound and you start off with posts about the oline - we're gonna give ya some biscuits! Great observations! And I like your followup point about the splits on the oline (you referred to as spacing).

 

I completely disagree with RestinPeace's take about the OGs and our ability to run inside. There were ALOT of wonderful holes inside for Jamal last week. I think Harrison was able to run well inside the week before too. Another thing I liked was Steinbach seemed quick enough where we could short trap him to the right side of the line; AND we actually pulled him all the way around the right tackle and upfield on various occasions from the BACKSIDE. IMO, that's talent. While I'm at it, I've seen Fraley pull from his Center position in recent years so I'm certain he can do it from his RG spot. Another positive about Fraley playing RG is that he's right there for Alex Mack if he runs into something he's never seen before.

 

What's not to like about 2 different RBs running for over 100 yards back to back weeks?

- Tom F.

[Gips]

We may be weak at both the LG and RT positions..its hard to tell right now..however the line has the appearance of being improved but i believe it may be an illusion that disappears when the competition gets real again starting from this sunday on through the bears game..2 decent games by fraley against cincy and the bills proves nothing to me..and st clair at RT is a nightmare he cant block for crap run or pass...steiny gets pushed around and mack pulling from center and fraleys nice play on the right side masks those facts...fraley has done a good job against bad defensive fronts but can he last? is he for real?

 

I hope its the real deal and things are looking up but i have serious doubts and seeing is believing as i have lost most of my optomism for the time being...yes seeing is believing...

[RestinPeace]

Welcome aboard C-Dawg! You had me at Alex. When you enter this cyber dawgpound and you start off with posts about the oline - we're gonna give ya some biscuits! Great observations! And I like your followup point about the splits on the oline (you referred to as spacing).

 

I completely disagree with RestinPeace's take about the OGs and our ability to run inside. There were ALOT of wonderful holes inside for Jamal last week. I think Harrison was able to run well inside the week before too. Another thing I liked was Steinbach seemed quick enough where we could short trap him to the right side of the line; AND we actually pulled him all the way around the right tackle and upfield on various occasions from the BACKSIDE. IMO, that's talent. While I'm at it, I've seen Fraley pull from his Center position in recent years so I'm certain he can do it from his RG spot. Another positive about Fraley playing RG is that he's right there for Alex Mack if he runs into something he's never seen before.

 

What's not to like about 2 different RBs running for over 100 yards back to back weeks?

- Tom F.

 

Your wrong. The Bills game is useless in evaluation because of the factors that were present(alot of Bills starters out). The Ravens game, the guards were crushed. Only Mack was able to make any headway.

[ballpeen]

... and yes, St. Clair is still our starting RT, you just don't hear his name as often as you did when Quinn was dropping a little deep and St. Clair had no where to run his man up-field.

 

With Anderson dropping to shorter steps, and seeing over the pocket (although still getting the ball batted down in his face), we look way more comfortable forming the pocket. I think Quinn was getting too deep, and he has too to see the field as Anderson's 6'6" frame, but it gave St. Clair no room for error and no where to leverage his guy to.

 

Nice analysis.

 

Not all tackles can just stonewall their player. If they have to cheat, it has to be the inside move. The QB has to help these guys by moving up a step or two or as you say, take a shorter drop to allow the tackle to just run the guy out of the play.

 

[mopaji]

I caught a lot of heat by saying after week 1 that our line was really good. Now, that Fraley is in at RG where he should've been from the start; St. Clair has been far more consistent than the he was the first few games. And Mack (whom many on here thought was a bust and a terrible draft choice) has progressed actually faster than expected. We'll see how much he has grown against Hampton this week. I have faith in the kid though. He's plenty big enough that's for sure.

 

Good analysis on the line CardDawg!

[Guest c-dawg]

Welcome aboard C-Dawg!

 

- Tom F.

 

Sorry Tom. I'm c-dawg.

 

@ CardDawg, thanks for the post. Our O-Line is looking better and I find the Quinn dropping too deep thought interesting.

[Flugel]

Sorry Tom. I'm c-dawg.

 

@ CardDawg, thanks for the post. Our O-Line is looking better and I find the Quinn dropping too deep thought interesting.

 

 

My bad - sorry about that!

- Tom F.

[Flugel]

Your wrong. The Bills game is useless in evaluation because of the factors that were present(alot of Bills starters out). The Ravens game, the guards were crushed. Only Mack was able to make any headway.

 

 

Not trying to piss you off. I thought the OGs handled their inside DTs well enough that nobody knew their names. They answer to Stroud and McCargo. The MLBs that you have excused to depleted roster for Buffalo were more Mack's responsibility except when we had inside traps and/or pulling guards to where Mack had to pick up the vacated DT (in lieu of the OG going mobile on the trap/pull).

 

Anytime you want to talk oline with me - I'd love to chat. That said, cheer up a little first so you have more an open mind.

- Tom F.

[Sez.EJ]

I'm not sold on this OL yet..especially the right side. Seriously.. running on the Bills last week was like fighting a blind man they were so injured down the middle of the defense.. I know offensive lines take time and the SHOULD be getting better each week.. I expect that and it appears to be happening..but I am not ready to mark them as anything but average yet.. We will see a few good D's in the upcoming weeks... we will have some more info to gauge their progress. so far so good.

 

I expect Pittsurgh to bring the house this week and see how DA holds up under the pressure.. I think we know the answer to that already though.