Legacy Fan Posted November 11, 2008 Report Share Posted November 11, 2008 A man as religious as Jindal cannot separate the two.Where did you get your knowledge of his personal religious beliefs? At a Trinity United picnic? WSS LOL naaah. Nobody ever pays attention at those things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted November 11, 2008 Report Share Posted November 11, 2008 At a Trinity United picnic? WSS LOL naaah. Nobody ever pays attention at those things. Seriously. I went to 'em for 20 years and never realized they had cornbread! WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mz. Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 Summarizing: Scientists estimate the planets age at around 6 billion and the universe at 10-15 bil years. I don't think that is enough time to perfect the process of muscle contraction (and all of the mechanisms that are involved) much less get from nothing to where we are today. I respect your point-of-view, Leg. I, too, don't know whether it is possible to create such intricate things with 6 billion years of evolution or not, but I'm way more inclined to give the scientists the benefit of the doubt rather than a group of folks who believe everything was created by a deity nobody (sane) has ever spoken to or seen before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mz. Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 a deity nobody (sane) has ever spoken to or seen before. I am loath to self-quote, but the opportunity is too perfect. Palin looks to God over 2012 bid In a wide-ranging interview with Fox News, the 44-year-old said: "I'm like, OK, God, if there is an open door for me somewhere, this is what I always pray, I'm like, don't let me miss the open door. Show me where the open door is." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 Summarizing: Scientists estimate the planets age at around 6 billion and the universe at 10-15 bil years. I don't think that is enough time to perfect the process of muscle contraction (and all of the mechanisms that are involved) much less get from nothing to where we are today. I respect your point-of-view, Leg. I, too, don't know whether it is possible to create such intricate things with 6 billion years of evolution or not, but I'm way more inclined to give the scientists the benefit of the doubt rather than a group of folks who believe everything was created by a deity nobody (sane) has ever spoken to or seen before. The 1st half of my/that post lays out that you're not giving credit to science and neither are the scientists. They are relying on probability, then writing it off as fact. e.g. Look no further than the father of modern genetics, Gregor Mendel and the probability of his mighty pea-plants.. He never actually recorded perfect 2:1:1 or 3:1 punnet squares but got "close enough" to establish his theories. His results got worse as he added more variables (he stopped at two -short/tall & red/white - for his prediction purposes). edit: I cant remember the color of the plants - might be purple/white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 a deity nobody (sane) has ever spoken to or seen before. I am loath to self-quote, but the opportunity is too perfect. Palin looks to God over 2012 bid In a wide-ranging interview with Fox News, the 44-year-old said: "I'm like, OK, God, if there is an open door for me somewhere, this is what I always pray, I'm like, don't let me miss the open door. Show me where the open door is." Well, I am loathe to tit-for-tat, and I dont konw if the opportunity is perfect, but it has presented itself. Perhaps a psych-eval is in order for the President-elect. From his autobiography, The Audacity of Hope "It came about as a choice and not an epiphany; the questions I had did not magically disappear. But kneeling beneath that cross on the South Side of Chicago, I felt God's spirit beckoning me. I submitted myself to His will, and dedicated myself to discovering His truth." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 I respect your point-of-view, Leg. p.s. I forgot to say, "thanks!" & my previous post may sound condescending towards you, but that wasn't its' intent. My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mz. Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 I know you mean not to condescend, Leg. At least, hopefully, not to me. Now to this, from Obama: I felt God's spirit beckoning me. I submitted myself to His will, and dedicated myself to discovering His truth." I will never cease finding these kinds of statements scary. In a vacuum, I'd say Obama was just pandering to the religious throngs, but I know that ain't the case at all. I'm guessing I need to accept that folks are more religious than I am (duh), and deal accordingly. I'm a liberal, mostly, because of the social issues and foreign policy, moreso than for economic reasons (duh again), so I'd like to see religion (read: Bible) stay out of our social policies, but that again is just wishful thinkking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mz. Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 Look no further than the father of modern genetics, Gregor Mendel and the probability of his mighty pea-plants.. Decent point. There are certainly gaps in what we know...now. But we are discovering something new every day, so let's give it some time. I guess I gravitate to science because there are many concepts/results I can grasp and that are verifiable and repeatable. Whereas a deity is a full and complete mystery (to me at least). I'll take 95% of one thing over 0% of another... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 I am actually pretty comfortable with both Palin's & the President-elect's statements & those statements personification of God. Obama's reads a little better (duh ). I think that personal relationship (for lack of a better term) is a much better barometer and guide for living than organized religion is/was/will be. I (and countless others) call it spirituality. I believe that any application in life would be a beneficiary of such a relationship even though one isnt always required. Maybe turning the other cheek isnt very sound economic or foreign policy, but an injection of the golden rule might do our social policy some good. And as to the 95% vs 0% discussion: Yes there are gaps in what we know, and there is just a myriad of stuff that has been tested repeated & verified. But there are also gaps that are filled in with assumptions. For me, I look at it like this: If you can accept the various assumptions that generate and pervade theories/laws of the origin of man/the universe, and be satisfied with it as "science," ok. It's the same as or just as easy as accepting the assumption that God exists, and therefore if God exists(based on our current understanding of who/what God is), it's not really that big of a leap to say "God very intelligently designed man" (verifying the very intelligently part with the vast complexity that is the human body). Both directions use assumptions, I just happen to find a comfort level in the faith I have in my belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mz. Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 My problem lies in the fact that I, in my brain, have "religion" and "spirituality" so intertwined that they are, for me, pretty much the same thing. I know it doesn't have to be, but for some reason they're eternally (poor choice of words!) tied together. I just happen to find a comfort level in the faith I have in my belief. And coming from a guy like you, I definitely take that statement to heart. It's just something so foreign to me....I have never in my life felt spiritual or spiritually-connected, really. My wife does, and I guess that's enough for the both of us! But seriously, thank you for indulging me in this conversation. It helps me see where intelligent/spiritual folks are coming from. Especially when what I mostly see are dudes (mis)quoting scripture, telling me why "fags" will burn in hell and why, whatever I may be up to, is a "sin." I would like to believe that if there is indeed a spirit up there somewhere, that he wants all good folks to be happy in life and be true to themselves, whether they are black, white, gay, straight, Christian, Jew, Muslim, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 Untying the two is definitely a hard thing to shake. Especially when you have something as large as the Catholic church not always practicing what they preach. Speaking of, I guess I got "lucky" in terms of gaining an intellectual fascination with spirituality after reading St. Augustine's thoughts on time & the universe (and it's creation), and the notion that pre-destination & free-will can co-exist - where previously I had treated spirituality as simply nightly conversations with an invisible father who I asked for help or for "stuff" or thanked. Anytime, I enjoyed the conversation also. Especially when what I mostly see are dudes (mis)quoting scripture, telling me why "fags" will burn in hell and why, whatever I may be up to, is a "sin." Yeah, I have a few things in my life where I hope that on the day I die, I hope I'm 1st in line so that God hasn't met his forgiveness quota yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Eater Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 I guess this is the problem I have with the GOP as a whole...too dominated by Catholicism and Catholic principles. You get a pass, mz the pussy, but - for your information - Catholics have always been and continue to be the 'red headed step-child' of Christianity. Look at N. Ireland and how the Anglos have treated Catholics. Pick up a copy of Trinity by Leon Uris - an excellent read. I disagree. Catholics were basically the only Christians until Martin Luther. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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