professor_g Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 I'd like to remain optimistic and have been trying to focus on the positive with Mangini, but Grossi makes me worried. I'm worried because I respect his opinion and I don't really see him calling for patience. He seems to be bordering on panic mode. In this morning's paper he is saying (roughly) that the team is underperforming, that the current sad state of the Browns is unprecedented, and that the only options before us are to clean house entirely or (should Mangini turn things around in the second half) make Mangini GM/head coach. Here are some quotes: "I've seen skullduggery from the inside, palace coups, a lynch-mob mentality in the Bill Belichick era followed by that coach's stunning ascension to the playoffs one year later, and, of course, "the move" and all the ugliness that ensued. But I've never seen anything quite like the current sad state of affairs." "The 2009 team has underperformed. The 1999 team performed at its talent level." "If the team goes down the tubes from this point on, everybody interviewed for this story expects Lerner to do another housecleaning." But if Mangini turns things around, Grossi suggests (relying on uncited authorities) that Mangini may well end up serving as GM: "That league executive asked: "What GM's going to come in and work with Mangini?"" Am I right that Grossi is ready to give up on Mangini? Is it already time to do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshutchins Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 I'd like to remain optimistic and have been trying to focus on the positive with Mangini, but Grossi makes me worried. I'm worried because I respect his opinion and I don't really see him calling for patience. He seems to be bordering on panic mode. In this morning's paper he is saying (roughly) that the team is underperforming, that the current sad state of the Browns is unprecedented, and that the only options before us are to clean house entirely or (should Mangini turn things around in the second half) make Mangini GM/head coach. Here are some quotes: "I've seen skullduggery from the inside, palace coups, a lynch-mob mentality in the Bill Belichick era followed by that coach's stunning ascension to the playoffs one year later, and, of course, "the move" and all the ugliness that ensued. But I've never seen anything quite like the current sad state of affairs." "The 2009 team has underperformed. The 1999 team performed at its talent level." "If the team goes down the tubes from this point on, everybody interviewed for this story expects Lerner to do another housecleaning." But if Mangini turns things around, Grossi suggests (relying on uncited authorities) that Mangini may well end up serving as GM: "That league executive asked: "What GM's going to come in and work with Mangini?"" Am I right that Grossi is ready to give up on Mangini? Is it already time to do so? I can see why Grossi thinks that. It's going to take a hell of an effort to turn things around but I'm hopeful. I hear lots of vague statements about the "sad state of affairs" but no specifics. I'd like to hear more analysis to justify his statement that "The 2009 team has underperformed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Listen to somebody like Doug Dieken, Sam Rutigliano, or Bernie Kosar. Toni Grossi? bleck. He's a knucklehead.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Italian DawgPound Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 I hear lots of vague statements about the "sad state of affairs" but no specifics. I'd like to hear more analysis to justify his statement that "The 2009 team has underperformed." That is absolutely right. Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSixPat Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Grossi doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. Mangini is a fine coach and GM. Just look at how he's handled the QB situation. Others might have traded DA or BQ and drafted or signed another QB. Mangini was smart enough to know that he had a QB internally... he's got them both playing at peak performance, and with more confidence than ever before! And their trade value has never been higher! That's the sign of a good coach and GM! Yes - the Browns are in good hands. Grossi's an idiot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neohionative Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Grossi doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. Mangini is a fine coach and GM. Just look at how he's handled the QB situation. Others might have traded DA or BQ and drafted or signed another QB. Mangini was smart enough to know that he had a QB internally... he's got them both playing at peak performance, and with more confidence than ever before! And their trade value has never been higher! That's the sign of a good coach and GM! Yes - the Browns are in good hands. Grossi's an idiot My sarcasm meter had its needle snap off on that one. But sadly this could be a post by certain members of the board that always want to disregard the opinions of the sports media when they have genuine criticism, but praise them when they agree. Thankfully a good portion of those posters were a part of the recent diaspora. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Hell yes, this team has underperformed. We are lacking talent, sure, but we are playing really bad football regardless of that talent level. I normally take anything Grossi says with a grain of salt, but I totally agree with him on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gips Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 I have no confidence in randy lerner to actually get "a serious credible leader" because the truth is the owner has to be a serious credible owner/leader and letting mangini say he will be part of the process destroys any hope of anyone worth having becoming our GM..first things first lerner needed to cut his losses with mangini/daboll and make ryan the HC on an interim/trial basis... Lerner is hopeless as an owner he just does not get it and never will.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshutchins Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 ... diaspora. Now there's a word you don't see on a football message board every day! Cool. Gave me a grin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATENEARS Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 I can't stand Grossi and think that he is the #1 cause of all the negativity among Cleveland Sports, I think we should revolt against him and boycott his little cry-baby rantings. From the Bill Belichick days, and through the move, Grossi has been a whiner. He then kept all of his old contacts at the Ravens and displayed front page Sport section stories of Art Modell kissing the Lombardi trophy. Story after story came about about the ravens front office while the Browns were just getting started. I kept thinking to myself, "Who the hell cares about the Ravens, here in Cleveland???" Grossi should write for the National Enquire. KSHutchins is exactly right, it has been all vague reporting to-date. No facts, not even references to fact. Grossi don't know shit, and is on the outside looking in, with no donuts being supplied him for free in Berea, so he resents the regime. If the guy was such on the 'in' then where was this reporting in the off-season or in week #1? Grossi is an abulance chaser. Go Browns! F-Grossi! Put up or shut-up Tony. Baltimore needs a negative reporter and hater ... go apply, you're perfect for the position. dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClevelandFanForLife Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 I can't stand Grossi and think that he is the #1 cause of all the negativity among Cleveland Sports, I think we should revolt against him and boycott his little cry-baby rantings. it's a tie between grossi and rizzo. both seem to hate their lives as well as cleveland sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
professor_g Posted November 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Three annoying bits from Grossi today: 1. "Hey, Tony: Does Mangini realize that the fans have turned on him, or is he oblivious to that as well? Hey, James: Yes, oblivious." 2. "Hey, Eric: I believe the owner wants to hire somebody to, in effect, fire Mangini for him." 3. Subtitle to story about Kokinis: "Dismissal was power play by Mangini, source says." What's the source, you might ask? Grossi: "A source close to Kokinis." Re 1: Blatant pandering to the hoi polloi! And do you really think Mangini is oblivious to the fact that fans are unhappy? He's a smart guy, Tony. Re 2: You are supposed to believe things on the basis of evidence. What's your evidence that Lerner wants to can Mangini, Grossi? A gut feeling? Your email interview with Lerner a week or two ago pointed in exactly the opposite direction: Lerner is sticking with Mangini. And why wouldn't he? He still wants Mangini to succeed, and he realizes that it is mainly the talent level that's the problem at this point. Everyone knows that we have only played teams with deeper talent than ours. Re 3: Sounds like a truly objective source there, Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEVELandMILIDH Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Three annoying bits from Grossi today: 1. "Hey, Tony: Does Mangini realize that the fans have turned on him, or is he oblivious to that as well? Hey, James: Yes, oblivious." 2. "Hey, Eric: I believe the owner wants to hire somebody to, in effect, fire Mangini for him." 3. Subtitle to story about Kokinis: "Dismissal was power play by Mangini, source says." What's the source, you might ask? Grossi: "A source close to Kokinis." Re 1: Blatant pandering to the hoi polloi! And do you really think Mangini is oblivious to the fact that fans are unhappy? He's a smart guy, Tony. Re 2: You are supposed to believe things on the basis of evidence. What's your evidence that Lerner wants to can Mangini, Grossi? A gut feeling? Your email interview with Lerner a week or two ago pointed in exactly the opposite direction: Lerner is sticking with Mangini. And why wouldn't he? He still wants Mangini to succeed, and he realizes that it is mainly the talent level that's the problem at this point. Everyone knows that we have only played teams with deeper talent than ours. Re 3: Sounds like a truly objective source there, Tony. Thought this was a interesting comment from Grossi to, Hey, Tony: I know you're busy, but this question is more about sportswriting than the Browns. I am a journalism student at Ohio State and am aspiring to work as a sportswriter, but I have reservations because it appears to be a job that requires one to completely give up their fandom -- no matter what market you get a job in -- so that one can be totally objective. Is this an accurate perception? Thanks Tony, love your work, keep it up. -- Christopher Moeller, Columbus Hey, Christopher: I believe to be a good sportswriter, you absolutely have to be a fan of sports. But you can't be a fan of the team you cover. You can't be emotionally attached to the team. In my case, I consider myself a fan of the city of Cleveland but not of the teams I've covered. I do believe there is a distinct difference. I hope that makes sense. Isnt writing expressing emotions? If your not emotionally attached or even a fan of the team you cover, then how do you write an acticle that a fan would relate to. You can be objective and still be a fan, as witnessed by everyone on this board. He seems to always write "WOW" articles with no substance and meaning. Now I understand why he cant relate to you and me....he's not a fan. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSixPat Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Well, on the bright side, this view makes Grossi's take look outright optimistic http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/rav...are_a_joke.html Mismanaged Browns are a joke It was only a matter of time before Cleveland running back Jamal Lewis criticized Browns head coach Eric Mangini. Lewis said Mangini practiced the Browns too long during the week, and it showed up on Sundays. Lewis has always been a man's man, and if you ask him a question, he is going to give you an answer. Sometimes, even if you don't ask the question, he is going to give you the answer. The Browns are a joke, the most mismanaged team in professional sports. They remind me of the Pigpen character in Charlie Brown, where there is always a cloud of stench hanging around them. The Browns deserve what they have gotten with Mangini. He turned on his former mentor in Bill Belichick, and has done the same with former Browns general manager George Kokinis. Kokinis has always been a decent man, and was well thought of when he was with the Ravens. Nobody wants to play for the Browns anymore. Players can't wait to move on. They've sucked the juice out of Lewis, and two fine executives in Phil Savage and Kokinis. It's a shame the NFL can't fire owner Randy Lerner. He has turned a once proud franchise into a laughingstock. Fans and owners in denial of takes like Grossi - and the view of Ravens Insider which seems to be boldly daring Cleveland to show some sign of life and pride even as the Baltimore Browns prepare for MNF against Cleveland - is the real danger this organization faces. That sort of denial is only going to bolster Lerner to stay the course... and as illustrated above, that's not appearing to be the best course. The thing about Kokinis' assertion that Mangini and Lerner promised him full and complete control is one that can quickly and easilly be settled. If the Browns didn't make that clear to Kokinis and the Ravens they would have been able to demand compensation for Kokinis or deny the lateral move. I'm sure Kokinis' lawyer is well prepared to play that card, regardless of what Grossi and his source say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lodilobo Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 I'd like to remain optimistic and have been trying to focus on the positive with Mangini, but Grossi makes me worried. I'm worried because I respect his opinion and I don't really see him calling for patience. He seems to be bordering on panic mode. In this morning's paper he is saying (roughly) that the team is underperforming, that the current sad state of the Browns is unprecedented, and that the only options before us are to clean house entirely or (should Mangini turn things around in the second half) make Mangini GM/head coach. Here are some quotes: "I've seen skullduggery from the inside, palace coups, a lynch-mob mentality in the Bill Belichick era followed by that coach's stunning ascension to the playoffs one year later, and, of course, "the move" and all the ugliness that ensued. But I've never seen anything quite like the current sad state of affairs." "The 2009 team has underperformed. The 1999 team performed at its talent level." "If the team goes down the tubes from this point on, everybody interviewed for this story expects Lerner to do another housecleaning." But if Mangini turns things around, Grossi suggests (relying on uncited authorities) that Mangini may well end up serving as GM: "That league executive asked: "What GM's going to come in and work with Mangini?"" Am I right that Grossi is ready to give up on Mangini? Is it already time to do so? I don't think Grossi is a bad writer, in fact I enjoy reading him. However, I take most of his opinion with a grain of salt. He's developed a pattern of finding a cospiracy where there isn't one, and fueling the flames of one that already exists. You can bet he's having a field day with the Mangini era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
professor_g Posted November 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Joe, what you've quoted there is just a rant with no substance. No one here is in denial. We have a terrible team at the moment, and the only way to get out of this state is to have an intelligent coach with a vision for the team. And of course some serious luck in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sez.EJ Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 First of all a sudden rise to prominance is NOT happening. We will be lucky to get another win this season; Even with some he cupcakes we play ..We still have KC, Detroit, Oakland and Jax.. I am not sure we can win ANY of those games. , This team is a putrid steaming pile of dung this season... .. So just forget about Mangini gaining MORE power.. This is the biggest load of bull I think I have ever heard. Mangini may survive this..but he's not going to be given more power..no way no how... He will be lucky to survive this season with his job or even an opportunity to be anything more than an assistant somewhere else in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
professor_g Posted November 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Who said anything about Mangini getting more power? Odd post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselPusher Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 I'm sure Grossi does not like the fact that he doesn't get his insider information anymore. Mangini seemed to shut it down, and getting good stories from Mangini doesn't happen often. I noticed that the more indepth articles/stories written, where he sits down and spends a day with a reporter, seem to be from the national media, not the local press. I'm sure Grossi isn't thrilled with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Am I right that Grossi is ready to give up on Mangini? Is it already time to do so? The cleveland press gave up on mangini when they took away the free coffee and donuts for the press. I dont like their negative reporting and they are part of the problem and have been for years when it comes to cleveland sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopaji Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 I love how he says this thing needs to be torn down and rebuilt. GUESS WHAT?!?! That is exactly what we are in the process of doing! THIS IS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE!! Does this douche think that is a one offseason process? Grossi is an uninformed douche-bag and he, like every other local media tool, is out for Mangini's head because he doesn't give him "the scoop". This is the formula, if a sports guy doesn't bow to them they rip on him until he gives in. Its a power struggle that the media uses to show people in the future what happens if you don't cooperate with them, and its a joke. Why, in god's name does anybody get their Brown's news from the PD? They need inflated stories to sell papers because their "cushy faux-journalist" jobs are at stake in a dying medium. Its a silly game and the worst part is that people still latch on to these BS, uninformed, bias, baselss stories and ideas and make the rest of us fans have to deal with the smut trash talk based on NOTHING but a force-fed opinion from talentless and lazy sports reporters. F*** You!! Grossi! GO ROOT FOR BUFFALO!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopaji Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 I can't stand Grossi and think that he is the #1 cause of all the negativity among Cleveland Sports, I think we should revolt against him and boycott his little cry-baby rantings. From the Bill Belichick days, and through the move, Grossi has been a whiner. He then kept all of his old contacts at the Ravens and displayed front page Sport section stories of Art Modell kissing the Lombardi trophy. Story after story came about about the ravens front office while the Browns were just getting started. I kept thinking to myself, "Who the hell cares about the Ravens, here in Cleveland???" Grossi should write for the National Enquire. KSHutchins is exactly right, it has been all vague reporting to-date. No facts, not even references to fact. Grossi don't know shit, and is on the outside looking in, with no donuts being supplied him for free in Berea, so he resents the regime. If the guy was such on the 'in' then where was this reporting in the off-season or in week #1? Grossi is an abulance chaser. Go Browns! F-Grossi! Put up or shut-up Tony. Baltimore needs a negative reporter and hater ... go apply, you're perfect for the position. dick Agreed! He's like a dumb sports fan with a Twitter account. He is all just personal opinions from "unnamed sources". I went to school, I know how these things work. As long as you say "our sources tell us" you can say whatever you want to. Legally, you don't have to reveal your sources and Grossi never does. I get better and more accurate information from this board than from the PD or WKNR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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