Building a Winning Team

[Earl34]

I think that with all the bashing of the Browns' coach (as opposed to the other coaches of awful teams) I think it would be good to get back to analyzing the actual guys on the field. Coaching and management aside, there have to be parts on the field that work. I am not trying to be exact in the order but I think that a successful, championship-contending team should have:

 

1) Quarterback. You could argue LT, but we seem to have one of those and you need someone to run the offense. Sorry Quinn fans; perhaps I'll be proven wrong but Quinn is struggling to show he's simply adequate to this point in his career.

 

2) Left Tackle. Protects #1. Check.

 

3) Edge Pass Rusher. If Wimbley can finish with 10+ sacks, I'd say we have this but it goes without saying that a front seven with one star player is too easy to game plan against. He needs a counterpart that's reasonably good on the other side to keep offenses honest.

 

4) Shut down CB. Revis made the Jets immensely better. The list of shutdown corners is not too long but aside from Nnamdi, you don't see many on losing teams. This defense would be so much better if you had one guy that could at least hang with a #1 WR.

 

5) MLB (4-3)/NT (3-4). I think that Shaun Rogers is one of the best but he's showing us what he showed Detroit. He can really play when he wants to and dominate but is he able to dominate start-to-finish? I'm a big believer in being able to shore up the middle of the defense first so this doesn't get us off the hook with respect to ILBs and SFs but Rogers can command multiple blockers so it's a start.

 

I, for one, am kind of excited to see that Maiava and Veikune are supposedly going to man the ILB spots Monday. I don't take joy in Barton getting hurt but we need to see what these guys can do.

 

That's the start. Discuss...

[The Gipper]

Well, in my opinion you cannot put "Coaching and Management" aside. They are Priority 1 and 1A when it come to building a winning team...and they are why the Browns have NOT been a winning team.

[Earl34]

Well, in my opinion you cannot put "Coaching and Management" aside. They are Priority 1 and 1A when it come to building a winning team...and they are why the Browns have NOT been a winning team.

 

ok, your favorite coach and gm are hired. Next...

[Gips]

Well, in my opinion you cannot put "Coaching and Management" aside. They are Priority 1 and 1A when it come to building a winning team...and they are why the Browns have NOT been a winning team.

 

Thats a win for the gipper...pro management and good coaching will always find a way to win at least some games with what they have even if its 53 guys fresh off the street...other then that...

 

QB

LT

C

RB

 

NT

CB

ILB

S

[Solon16]

let's look at the difference in Cincy this year, where they have swept the division so far.

 

A). Got there Qb FRANCHISE healthy . Got a Great young Rb who is at top in nfl in rushing(who was let go){i took alot of shit on this board for telling you all to go get him and that he'd be great pickup} C). A Great ILB who attacks the line of scrimmage(again took alot of shit for wanting maualuga)

 

Voila...a division leading team....Both guys we SHOULD have gotten. But it all starts with the most important position in ALL of sports!

[peterbell]

The whole town of Cinncinati wanted Marvin run out of town..the QB is healthy and playing well Marv is now a hell of a coach

[BrownIndian]

The whole town of Cinncinati wanted Marvin run out of town..the QB is healthy and playing well Marv is now a hell of a coach

 

Cincinnati went 4 -12 once in the past 5 years. Else they have a .500% or higher. I dont think these Browns have similar records for the past 5 years .

[Zombo]

Cincinnati has had one winning season in 19 years, four years ago, and now we are using them as a model on how to build a winning franchise.

 

Zombo

[shoot]

I think that with all the bashing of the Browns' coach (as opposed to the other coaches of awful teams) I think it would be good to get back to analyzing the actual guys on the field. Coaching and management aside, there have to be parts on the field that work. I am not trying to be exact in the order but I think that a successful, championship-contending team should have:

 

1) Quarterback. You could argue LT, but we seem to have one of those and you need someone to run the offense. Sorry Quinn fans; perhaps I'll be proven wrong but Quinn is struggling to show he's simply adequate to this point in his career.

 

2) Left Tackle. Protects #1. Check.

 

I agree with this mostly, but you have to have a solid line outside of LT. We have a great LT yet our line is doing terrible because the rest of the line is not up to par (not that there's a depth of talent at the skill positions either). This upcoming draft we just need to get the best player availablle, as we pretty much could use a good player at ANY position.

[Earl34]

I agree with this mostly, but you have to have a solid line outside of LT. We have a great LT yet our line is doing terrible because the rest of the line is not up to par (not that there's a depth of talent at the skill positions either). This upcoming draft we just need to get the best player availablle, as we pretty much could use a good player at ANY position.

 

 

I agree...and even though a "best available' approach would be good, I think that by the end of the second round of next year's draft (FA included) you need to come up with a true playmaker on offense and a substantial defensive player.

[Solon16]

Cincinnati has had one winning season in 19 years, four years ago, and now we are using them as a model on how to build a winning franchise.

 

Zombo

let's look at the difference in Cincy this year, where they have swept the division so far. ummmm This year as oppossed to last year when they were 4-12? Valid comparison when they only upgraded 3 positions and they are (currently) the division leader and have a top 3 running back! Biggest difference is there Defense(reyM)

 

Qb, Rb , ILB! BAM vastly improved....get those three positions right....Ingredients to buiild a winning team...wasn't saying follow the 19 year plan by the bengals but thanks for your two cents...you need change. lol

[Zombo]

let's look at the difference in Cincy this year, where they have swept the division so far. ummmm This year as oppossed to last year when they were 4-12? Valid comparison when they only upgraded 3 positions and they are (currently) the division leader and have a top 3 running back! Biggest difference is there Defense(reyM)

 

Qb, Rb , ILB! BAM vastly improved....get those three positions right....Ingredients to buiild a winning team...wasn't saying follow the 19 year plan by the bengals but thanks for your two cents...you need change. lol

They are 6-2 with a history of folding like a cheap pup tent in a wind storm in the second halves of seasons. If they hold on to win three of their final eight then they will have had a whopping two winning season in Lewis' seven years there.

 

Let's copy that plan!

 

Zombo

--Pay no attention to the Baltimore & Pittsburgh "defense first" plans ... that just results in Super Bowls and multiple playoff seasons.

[Solon16]

glad you comprehend baltimore...ray lewis, flacco, ray rice.....pitt rothlis, farrior, mendenhall/parker ...same plan

 

You know ....the title of this thread? it's called a checklist...not a bengal plan...just showing IMO the reason they are vastly improved...but go ahead and misquote and mis interpret....like I said, you need some change for your 2 cents. Qb,RB and ILB

[The Gipper]

Cincinnati has had one winning season in 19 years, four years ago, and now we are using them as a model on how to build a winning franchise.

 

Zombo

 

I don't think they have done that bad, have they?...on checking, perhaps you are right. They had a winning record in 1990, then not another one till 2005. They have had two or three 8-8 seasons. So far this year they are 6-2.

 

[ballpeen]

To me, football is just like baseball, you have to be strong up the middle.

 

In baseball, you have to have a catcher, pitcher, middle infielders, and a centerfielder.

 

In football, you need a back, QB, center, NT/Dt, MLB, safety.

 

So on that football list, I can check NT for sure, and center is a maybe but looking close to being checked....the rest.....not so close.

[steel88]

To me, football is just like baseball, you have to be strong up the middle.

 

In baseball, you have to have a catcher, pitcher, middle infielders, and a centerfielder.

 

In football, you need a back, QB, center, NT/Dt, MLB, safety.

 

So on that football list, I can check NT for sure, and center is a maybe but looking close to being checked....the rest.....not so close.

 

You dont consider D'qwell to be a checkmark?

[ballpeen]

You dont consider D'qwell to be a checkmark?

 

No, not really. He's good but I have never seen in the guy what some do....but he has been out, so a bit off the mind...I can compromise and call that a maybe....

 

[BUNSofSTEEL08]

I don't think they have done that bad, have they?...on checking, perhaps you are right. They had a winning record in 1990, then not another one till 2005. They have had two or three 8-8 seasons. So far this year they are 6-2.

 

 

BENGALS HISTORY:

 

2000s

Decade Record: 58-85-1

 

 

1990s

Decade Record: 52-108-0

 

 

1980s

Decade Record: 81-71-0

 

 

1970s

Decade Record: 74-70-0

 

 

1960s

Decade Record: 7-20-1

 

[Alo]

C). A Great ILB who attacks the line of scrimmage(again took alot of shit for wanting maualuga)

Rey's playing Sam for them, not inside backer. And I think the claim that he's transformed their defense is a bit odd: they were ranked 12th in total defense last year; they're ranked 14th this year.

 

I don't remember you taking "alot of shit" for comparing Maualuga to Ray Lewis and calling for us to take him at #5. In fact, I remember that being a very popular position around here.

 

But consider this: in his rookie year, Ray Lewis had 94 solo tackles; Rey Maualuga's on pace for 36. That's a huge difference - in part explained by Rey's playing on the strongside and being more of a two down backer, but that doesn't account for all of it.

 

Maybe Rey's helped stiffen up their run D a little. But even then, the difference isn't at all that huge: 3.9 YPC in '08, 3.8 YPC in '09.

 

So while having two good ILB's is essential in a 3-4 defense, I don't see Rey's play in Cincinnati's 4-3 being all that great a proof of that.

[Solon16]

To me, football is just like baseball, you have to be strong up the middle.

 

In baseball, you have to have a catcher, pitcher, middle infielders, and a centerfielder.

 

In football, you need a back, QB, center, NT/Dt, MLB, safety.

 

So on that football list, I can check NT for sure, and center is a maybe but looking close to being checked....the rest.....not so close.

 

To me, football is just like baseball, you have to be strong up the middle.

 

In baseball, you have to have a catcher, pitcher, middle infielders, and a centerfielder.

 

In football, you need a back, QB, center, NT/Dt, MLB, safety.

 

I said that many times on this board....I agree 1000% We haven't had a decent ILB in 25 years... not a huge fan of DQ

[Solon16]

Rey's playing Sam for them, not inside backer. And I think the claim that he's transformed their defense is a bit odd: they were ranked 12th in total defense last year; they're ranked 14th this year.

 

I don't remember you taking "alot of shit" for comparing Maualuga to Ray Lewis and calling for us to take him at #5. In fact, I remember that being a very popular position around here.

 

But consider this: in his rookie year, Ray Lewis had 94 solo tackles; Rey Maualuga's on pace for 36. That's a huge difference - in part explained by Rey's playing on the strongside and being more of a two down backer, but that doesn't account for all of it.

 

Maybe Rey's helped stiffen up their run D a little. But even then, the difference isn't at all that huge: 3.9 YPC in '08, 3.8 YPC in '09.

 

So while having two good ILB's is essential in a 3-4 defense, I don't see Rey's play in Cincinnati's 4-3 being all that great a proof of that.

 

Good point....thanks....I didn't advocate rey at #5....but damn did i want him in the second round over robiskie! in the end #5 just too high...eugene monroe would look pretty good right now tho....

[Alo]

Good point....thanks....I didn't advocate rey at #5....but damn did i want him in the second round over robiskie! in the end #5 just too high...eugene monroe would look pretty good right now tho....

I'm talking about before the draft, when you said stuff like this:

 

Rey isn't perfect BUT if you stand him up behind Shaun Rogers - how's that CHEMISTRY lookin? No great MLB in my 40 years of life and to me the #1 ingredient to a strong defense and identity. I'd take him at #5 no doubt but I don't have a saY....I hope we trade down and get him but the barton deal makes it a big doubt. I wish someone would would understand that you build a Defense exactly like in Baseball....straight up the middle...NT, MLB, and safety....without those three...it's all meaningless fodor.

For most of the spring, the debate was Curry vs. Maualuga at #5. While you may have been one of the few people who was a fan of both, you weren't talking about going for Curry in Rd.1, Maualuga in Rd. 2.

 

You said you would have taken him at #5, though - like some people - you were trying to split the baby by arguing for Maualuga via a trade down. I believe Shep was arguing for the same thing.

[Solon16]

Rey isn't perfect BUT if you stand him up behind Shaun Rogers - how's that CHEMISTRY lookin? No great MLB in my 40 years of life and to me the #1 ingredient to a strong defense and identity. I'd take him at #5 no doubt but I don't have a saY....I hope we trade down and get him but the barton deal makes it a big doubt. I wish someone would would understand that you build a Defense exactly like in Baseball....straight up the middle...NT, MLB, and safety....without those three...it's all meaningless fodor

 

I stand by this with pride....we have to polay him twice a year for along time...i believe i'm right about rey!

[Alo]

Curry & Maualuga are way behind the other freshman linebackers when you look at the stats.

Not if you consider all the major statistical categories: solo tackles, sacks, forced fumbles, etc.

 

Here's how Chris Steuber has the LB's listed in his rookie rankings:

• Brian Cushing - #1

• Brian Orakpo - #8

• Aaron Curry - #11

• James Laurinaitis - #13

• Clay Matthews - #18

• Rey Maualuga - unranked

[ballpeen]

Not if you consider all the major statistical categories: solo tackles, sacks, forced fumbles, etc.

 

Here's how Chris Steuber has the LB's listed in his rookie rankings:

• Brian Cushing - #1

• Brian Orakpo - #8

• Aaron Curry - #11

• James Laurinaitis - #13

• Clay Matthews - #18

• Rey Maualuga - unranked

 

 

Good stuff my man. I somehow envision you with a team of assistants scouring the stats and reviewing the networks to come up with all the information you provide.

 

Looks like it took you and your team a good 40 minutes of research to come up with that gem

 

 

 

Alo looking through his briefcase while his team of crack assistants search for information and wait for their next directive.

[Canton Mike]

To me, football is just like baseball, you have to be strong up the middle.

 

In baseball, you have to have a catcher, pitcher, middle infielders, and a centerfielder.

 

In football, you need a back, QB, center, NT/Dt, MLB, safety.

 

So on that football list, I can check NT for sure, and center is a maybe but looking close to being checked....the rest.....not so close.

 

I agree...You need DIFFERENCE makers at those spots. While DQ is a solid LB, he is NOT one who strikes fear into an opponent.

Mike

[kshutchins]

How about a fast, blocking TE with some hands?

[Solon16]

Not if you consider all the major statistical categories: solo tackles, sacks, forced fumbles, etc.

 

Here's how Chris Steuber has the LB's listed in his rookie rankings:

• Brian Cushing - #1

• Brian Orakpo - #8

• Aaron Curry - #11

• James Laurinaitis - #13

• Clay Matthews - #18

• Rey Maualuga - unranked

 

That's alittle misleading...that is a weekly list...rey was #17 the two consecutive weeks prior....

 

[Alo]

That's alittle misleading...that is a weekly list...rey was #17 the two consecutive weeks prior....

Not sure how it's misleading. Steuber updates it weekly, and Maualuga slid out of the top 20. So did Mack & Massaquoi.

 

If you want a non-weekly list, here's the Great Blue North Draft Report's midseason rookie rankings:

 

Top 10 defensive rookies

 

1. Brian Cushing LB Houston

2. Jairus Byrd DB Buffalo

3. Louis Delmas FS Detroit

4. Brian Orakpo DE Washington

5. Derek Cox CB Jacksonville

6. Aaron Curry LB Seattle

7. James Laurinaitis LB St. Louis

8. Jerraud Powers CB Indianapolis

9. Vontae Davis CB Miami

10. Al Afalava DB Chicago

 

Honorable mention: Miami CB Sean Smith; Detroit LB DeAndre Levy; Indianapolis CB Jacob Lacey; Houston CB Glover Quin; Green Bay LB Clay Matthews; New England S Patrick Chung

[CLEVELandMILIDH]

Anybody watching the Notre Dame/Pitt Panthers game right now. You want a playmaking widereceiver, Jonathan Baldwin #82 for Pitt looks like a beast out there 6'5" 220 looks like he can jump outta the building. Anybody see that high catch over the middle or the diving TD catch? He goes and attacks the ball with his hands, none of that body catching BS that BE did. Wow I never heard of the guy and he looked like a top 10 pick out there. I think he's a sophmore or junior dont no if he will come out this year but if anybody has watched more of him this year how as he done in other games and what do you think about him.