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Expectations


Earl34

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I hate to say it but you guys are right; and you're wrong.

 

The Browns lose 16-0 to a team that dismantled them in week 3. The defense was far improved. Did anyone comment on the Browns COACHING STAFF getting the Ravens to burn their two remaining first half time outs? No. Y'all are too busy ruminating on the negatives that we already know and some new ones (like the fact that Quinn has fallen in love with the backside hot screen that he can only complete 20% of the time).

 

We have people POSTING IN ALL CAPS ABOUT WANTING MANGINI FIRED RIGHT THE F* NOW!

 

and all I can say is that you guys really need to chill out. You will throw out the baby with the bathwater.

 

Here's what we DON'T know.

 

We don't know what Lerner and Mangini agreed the outlook was for this team when he took over. Lerner wanted a guy who WOULDN'T take it easy on these players. Did they agree that they didn't have much hope to be competitive this year? Were they on the same page? If so, I can't see Lerner firing Mangini. Now, he could bring in a "football czar" who's going to evaluate things and say Mangini needs to go...or he might hire the czar with a condition that Mangini remains his coach for one more year (minus some changes).

 

Am I totally in support of what Mangini has done here? No. There are certainly moves I've questioned. I think that the media has a vendetta against him (deserved or not) and I think y'all feed into it. I think that with two weeks to prep for Baltimore that Quinn/Daboll/(insert offensive punchline here) should have mustered more than zero points. On the other hand, he has you off the hook for $11 mil to Quinn, garnered you 11 picks and brought some accountability to a locker room that had none.

 

Is it fair to look this inept? No. Should we expect more? Sure...but the offense is a mess.

 

I do see a pervasive attitude on this board that everything wrong with the Browns has to, by definition, be Mangini-related and everything good has to be attributable to either 1) Rob Ryan or 2) some superhuman effort by an oppressed, maltreated member of this team.

 

You can't have it both ways.

 

If you believe what every idiot from NY says about Eric Mangini's three years there, I think you're all just suckers. He can win in this league and has won in this league. He knows what it takes (per Accorsi, Parcells, Kirwan, Carl Banks, Papa, Tim Ryan, etc).

 

You say that you want to build this team but aren't prepared to face the truth: Savage left the cupboard bare, the wallets empty and the dog freakin' screwed. You (collectively) aren't prepared for what it takes to fix a broken locker room (and any locker room with K2 and guys suing the team IS broken) because you can't bear to part with your precious little favorites that are holdovers from the 10-6 season. THAT SEASON IS GONE! THE LEAGUE FIGURED YOUR DAMNED QB OUT!

 

If I were Lerner and I still wanted Mangini it would be with the proviso that he change his staff. Maybe Mike Holmgren comes in and clears house tomorrow. I don't know. What I do know is that if he does it merely because the fans say so then we'll all be in for more of the same. Real owners don't listen to fans. Every NFL guy will tell you that.

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Ive said all along that i like what ryan is doing with the scraps he has..we still need an impact safety with ballhawking skills and a shutdown corner to start forcing turnovers and force teams to fear going to the air...

Everything else thats not in ryans hands sucks...

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Everybody's looking for the magic bullet that will right this ship in an instant. It's not going to happen.

I look forward to the hiring of the football mind who's going to bring order to this mess. I'm looking for a voice of reason to calm the masses.

 

At the start of the season I was asked how many games the Browns would win this year. My answer was "zero." I meant it. I'm shocked we beat the Bills. I'm pretty sure they were shocked too.

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Big thanks to the OP on this one. When you let the emotions go step back and look at things objectively we went from getting the piss beat out of us 34-3, to a game tied at halftime and decided by a couple turnovers. This while our defense is kicking ass with DQ and Barton out, both of our MLB who communicate to the rest of the defense. So we halved the score when our D has less weapons. I know some around here think that the Browns are supposed to win one game against a much better opponent ala Giants game last year but guess what? Not this year!

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Everybody's looking for the magic bullet that will right this ship in an instant. It's not going to happen.

I look forward to the hiring of the football mind who's going to bring order to this mess.

 

The first part of this post is dead on. But remember, this offense was so terrible down the stretch of last season that we went what? Six games without scoring a TD. And that was with an offensive coordinator who just one year earlier was considered one of the best young minds in football. I still think that Chudinski is beyond competent.

 

What happened? Harder schedule, declining play of Steinbach/Fraley/Schaeffer. Lewis got a year older and a year slower and lost desire. Injury limitations on Winslow. Defenses learned what Edwards can and can't do and adjusted accordingly. JJ had six knee surgeries and staff infections. Stallworth was an overrated bust/drunkard who killed a guy after a bender with Edwards the day after he collected his roster bonus.

 

Coming into this season, the team was on even further decline. Our only superior run blocking defensive lineman Tucker lost his will to play after a long time battle with mental issues. Winslow wanted (and got) a HUGE contract that considering his injury risk would have put the team in a bind. Heiden (beginning last year) could not stay healthy for an entire game. Steinbach's game has continued to deteriorate. Hadnot (who was not a great sign in the first place) got injured.

 

Guys, Edwards mailed it in the second half of last year playing for the players coaches to end all players coaches. He was asking opposing players who their modeling agent was DURING THE GAME!! Again, the offense was impotent and in decline.

 

You had your diva 1st round QB getting decked by one of your more player popular defensive linemen. I.E. a divided locker room.

 

The book is still out on Quinn, but my guess is neither QB on this roster will have a distinguished NFL career.

 

So, Mangini came in with a crap-filled roster, four draft picks, and not a ton of money under the cap with which to work. The team he inherited would compete in arguably the toughest division in football. The second and third placed teams met in the AFC championship last year.

 

He was thrown into a fire fight with a couple of bullets and a sling-shot.

 

So what has he done so horribly?

 

The QB competition: See divided locker room. Some of these guys played with Anderson in his pro bowl year. Say what you want about him, but he saved that season from Charlie Frye. Then he had a horrible 2008 minus one shining Monday night. So why did Mangini take so long to name a starting QB? Perhaps he wanted someone to WIN the job in practice and in scrimmages . . . to become a leader. When that didn't happen, he went with Quinn, saw the season slipping away, a locker room becoming further divided, and a likely waste of $11 million that could be used to improve the team. What was lost? Quinn looked terrible in the first 3 games, and just as terrible as Anderson in the last. NEITHER looks worthy of a starting NFL QB job. $11 million saved. Still a chance to evaluate Quinn. A base for comparison. Can you imagine how we'd rate Quinn's performances if we hadn't seen Anderson? Even in retrospect, thinking logically, I can't see any fault in this.

 

The Jets -- Barton, Coleman and Mosley have been serviceable players. Better than the guys they replaced. Bowens has been good. Trusnik is starting to look like a steal as a minor part of the Edwards deal. Elam is young and developing and, IMO, worthy of about a third round pick. Stuckey hasn't looked good in his limited time -- but the reports on him say #3 receiver with good hands. Poteat is who we thought he was. I'd he harsher on this move had we had ANY depth at DB. Yeah, the Jets are mostly on the defensive side of the ball and have been some of the most consistent players.

 

 

The Defense -- Kosar, right before taking his gig with the Borwns was on radio saying one of the early problems with the defense was that Mangini had brought a sophisticated NE "disguise" defense to a team full of players used to playing vanilla. He said the scheme requires smart players, has a steep learning curve, and that some of the guys would never get it and they'd have to move on. The ABJ writer wrote an article saying that the Browns should simplify the defense in the second half (which was moronic). I think we've seen in the last two week that this defensive scheme is starting to pay dividends. It still doesn't have all the necessary pieces, but it's more promising than anything I've seen on that side of the ball since the return. We're down both our starting LBers and still looked good on Monday minus one play by the defense's weakest link and one terribly disorganized play. I love Rob Ryan, but to think that this defense is all HIS and then to lay that disorganized play on Mangini is turning things around a little. I do think the Mangini-Ryan marriage is a good one.

 

The Offense -- yeah, it's been putrid. But it was putrid last year, too. See the personnel problems listed above. This COULDN'T be fixed in one season. No pass for Mangini. He brought in St. Clair, Womack and Royal as stop gaps and all have been terrible. Yeah, he's probably stubbornly sticking with Daboll, but doesn't that kind of fly in the face of the theory that he's a guy who "throws people under the bus". Like all the blind source speculation that that is what he did to Kookinis? Wasn't Daboll the much easier target? I mean, two coaches fired their O-coordinators before the season even started. The offense IS a cause for concern. But Mangini has really laid only a couple bricks to his foundation. A foundation that started only with Joe Thomas and maybe Lawrence Vickers as solid long-term pieces. Given another year, Mangini will draft another lineman or two with a plan to turn the Thomas Joneses of the world into the present-day Thomas Jones. Yes, a running game to take the pressure off the QB built the right way. Historically, little can be expected of first year receivers. Mo Mass and Robo need a chance to grow. Judge them next season once we have some of the other offensive pieces in place. In my memory, no second round rookie receiver has ever lifted a team out of the NFL's offensive basement.

 

The Draft -- trade downs. One of the reasons good teams stay good is that they get good players they don't have to bet the farm on. You can take an interior linemen with the 20th pick and NOT pay him like an established, elite player. The Couches, Warrens and Browns of the world were a HUGE strain on the Browns' ability to build the remainder of the team and just didn't give value for their relative price. Teams know this. It's why it's so hard to trade out of the top picks and the draft value chart should be discounted. I loved the strategy to get out of the top picks once Curry was gone. This team is not ready for a rookie QB even if you think Sanchez is the guy. The players? Anybody that watched Mack last night should feel good that he was a value pick. Smart guy, should have a good, long NFL career. Robiskie? See above. Worrisome, but you have to give him some time. MoMass has flashed some ability. Veikune? Absent, but the DE to LB conversion projects often take a while. The top conversion project was Robert Ayers and even he hasn't done much yet in his NFL career. Maivia? Already more productive than Rey-Rey in limited appearances. Francies? We'll see. He looked to have some tools in preseason. Davis? Looked good in preseason. May develop into something as the O-line continues to get built. I give the draft strategy as solid B+. The picks an incomplete.

 

Winslow. I liked Winslow, but I wouldn't have given him that huge contract with his injury history, and without it he would have been a problem in the locker room. He already had a strained relationship with the club thanks to Opie's unprofessional ways. The compensation was reasonable. Winslow was a high risk/high reward player that the rest of this roster could not absorb.

 

Edwards. A punk. Other than the Jets trade, the best case to salvage value for him was to offer him 110% of this year's salary as an RFA (paid like a top 10 receiver already) and take the chance that someone else would sign him away. Does anyone really believe his production warrants top 10 pay? His value was slipping by the day as he contributed nothing while establishing a criminal record. Third and a fifth rounder (from a team that looks like it might be picking in the top 1/3 of the draft at this point )and Trusnik who looks to have some major upside. That's called cutting losses.

 

Released players from Savage era? None are contributing anywhere. The vast majority are not even on an NFL roster. Leon Williams, for instance, ended up anchoring one of the worst defenses against the run in the UFL. Beau Bell bused my table at dinner last night.

 

Non-signed free agents: Sean Jones. I liked Jones, but the rap was that he wasn't a smart guy. Probably could not have played within the system. Doesn't start in Philly. The third down back that went to Arizona? Anybody else worth mentioning?

 

Bottom line is that I'm seeing the defense improve, even with injuries. The scheme looks solid. The special teams has remained strong. The team has become more disciplined. It is not there entirely, but it has improved. The offense is in need of an overhaul. But that was the case last year as well. We are well positioned now through the draft to address that in a reasonable way -- building from the inside out in what is supposed to be a very deep draft armed with multiple second and third round picks.

 

What are the other raps on Mangini? The forced bus trip to make the rookies participate in a charitable event. Wow . . . the guy is a monster for wanting athletes to give back to the community. The heavy fines designed to strip players of the sense of entitlement that creates the Braylon Edwards of the world? Yeah, that's so wrong. Practice opportunity drills that were done in NE and that the league has found no wrongdoing? That he runs a "tough practice" with a team that has shown it can't tackle or block? And now what's the deal with the Cribbs injury. His injury had NOTHING to do with the play. A defensive player hit him without the ball. Is the argument that the Browns should have taken a knee and conceded the shut out? Or that the kick returner and special teams gunner is to valuable fragile to be on the field on the last play?

 

The media is making it impossible for Mangini to do his job. The fan support for some of this nonsense has allowed the players of a team that went 4-12 last year under a player-friendly coach to engage in a power struggle with the coach and undermine what he is trying to do. It's the inmates running the asylum.

 

1-8 is bad. Not completely unexpected, but bad. THe offense has been horrible. But to act like everything has been done wrong and that areas have not improved is myopic.

 

I think order is on its way to being restored but for the interference from outside influences. It reminds me a lot of the Belichick days.

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Just to add one more point. I posted above that the influx of Jets players has not been a problem. I firmly believe that.

 

I also posted above that outside the Jets, some of the key free agent acquisitions have been pretty damn bad: Royal, St. Clair, Womack and Furrey is the list. Other than Furrey (who's been marginal) the picks have been a disaster.

 

At Baltimore, Kokinis was a Director of Pro Personnel at Baltimore, and, unless he was doing absolutely nothing, I'd guess he had a great deal of input into the non-Jet signings.

 

Again, the Jet signings have been okay. The other signings have sucked. The Browns also cycled numerous players through the roster only to be cut and not picked up by anyone in the NFL. So it kind of begs the question of whether Mangini was getting any competent help in his Pro Personnel decisions.

 

Ultimately, some criticism should come back on Mangini for "picking" Kokinis and Lerner for letting him -- but the media story of Kokinis being "wronged" and hung out to dry seems to have a lot of holes in it. Especially after Kokinis made that crazy statement to Peter King that he wasn't doing on-campus scouting because of all the stuff he had to do around Berea with a new organization weeks before his firing.

 

It is fair to conclude that Mangini is responsible for the guys he coached with the Jets. Most have been decent -- especially considering none were big investments. Outside of the former Jets -- in an area you would think Kokinis had some say -- the acquisitions suck ass.

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The little bit I watched, I thought your defense did well. Give Quinn some real playing time, learn the game speed, etc and he should do well. Trouble with guys like Quinn, they are compared to quarterbacks that step into a good situation and have success from the start.

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Great post, Chip.

 

I hope I didn't suggest I wanted Mangini gone, because I'm not looking for heads to roll. I AM looking for a credible voice for the team that can, as I said, "calm the masses" so Mangini can do his job. Plus, we do need a GM.

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Great post, Chip.

 

I hope I didn't suggest I wanted Mangini gone, because I'm not looking for heads to roll. I AM looking for a credible voice for the team that can, as I said, "calm the masses" so Mangini can do his job. Plus, we do need a GM.

 

 

No. I may have misread the post a little. I agree. We do need a competent GM. Actually, we might need to hire a recognizable "face" to calm the masses as you suggest. I don't even completely discount the fact that Mangini might have to go for the purpose of damage control. I don't think the backlash against Mangini is fair, though. And I fear it may delay a legitimate rebuild for another year or two. It pains me to see that player's agents, the national and local media, and some malcontented players are shaping public opinion in a way that distorts what is the complete truth.

 

Locally, since Belichick shut down media access our local media has gone out of its way to show our coaches who is boss . . . that the pen is mightier than the whistle. They were wrong about Belichick and created an atmosphere that, I think, largely contributed to losing the franchise to Baltimore. Beloved Bernie never started for anyone else. Bill got three rings and became a sure-fire HOF legend. Art got his superbowl. Vinny played in big games and became a Pro Bowler. We got a three year time out, but got to keep the name, the colors and the media.

 

The media helped chase Palmer too soon, clashed egos with Davis, told us that Bruce Arians was an idiot that didn't know how to use Tim Couch, told us Jeff Garcia was the worst QB ever, told us we were in good hands with "draft guru" (how many times have you seen that in print) Phil Savage, and now have pinned all Savage's failings on Mangini after 9 games. They've been wrong so many times, and no one calls them on it. Everyone just follow the next charge.

 

Arians got his Superbowl, Tim Couch remains out of football, Phil Savage proved he can't draft his way out of a wet paper bag, and Garcia found the Pro Bowl again (along with Antonio Bryant and Kellen Winslow and Jeff Faine left over from Butch Davis's "talentless" roster. The roster where the Defensive line played in the AFC championship as the Denver Broncos, where Anthony Henry played a vital role in the Cowboy's defense, where Leigh Bodden would go on to start at strong side corner for the Patriots, and where Chris Crocker has been said to be a big part of the recent Bengals resurgence. From that roster, Andre Davis has spent some good years as a third receiver with the Texans as well.)

 

I've spent the last 20 years being amazed at how often someone (or some collective) can be wrong when it's more about power than reason. Mangini's been far from perfect, but I see a lot of similarities to the present attacks and past inaccuracies that seem to be forever buried from scrutiny.

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No. I may have misread the post a little. I agree. We do need a competent GM. Actually, we might need to hire a recognizable "face" to calm the masses as you suggest. I don't even completely discount the fact that Mangini might have to go for the purpose of damage control. I don't think the backlash against Mangini is fair, though. And I fear it may delay a legitimate rebuild for another year or two. It pains me to see that player's agents, the national and local media, and some malcontented players are shaping public opinion in a way that distorts what is the complete truth.

 

Locally, since Belichick shut down media access our local media has gone out of its way to show our coaches who is boss . . . that the pen is mightier than the whistle. They were wrong about Belichick and created an atmosphere that, I think, largely contributed to losing the franchise to Baltimore. Beloved Bernie never started for anyone else. Bill got three rings and became a sure-fire HOF legend. Art got his superbowl. Vinny played in big games and became a Pro Bowler. We got a three year time out, but got to keep the name, the colors and the media.

 

The media helped chase Palmer too soon, clashed egos with Davis, told us that Bruce Arians was an idiot that didn't know how to use Tim Couch, told us Jeff Garcia was the worst QB ever, told us we were in good hands with "draft guru" (how many times have you seen that in print) Phil Savage, and now have pinned all Savage's failings on Mangini after 9 games. They've been wrong so many times, and no one calls them on it. Everyone just follow the next charge.

 

Arians got his Superbowl, Tim Couch remains out of football, Phil Savage proved he can't draft his way out of a wet paper bag, and Garcia found the Pro Bowl again (along with Antonio Bryant and Kellen Winslow and Jeff Faine left over from Butch Davis's "talentless" roster. The roster where the Defensive line played in the AFC championship as the Denver Broncos, where Anthony Henry played a vital role in the Cowboy's defense, where Leigh Bodden would go on to start at strong side corner for the Patriots, and where Chris Crocker has been said to be a big part of the recent Bengals resurgence. From that roster, Andre Davis has spent some good years as a third receiver with the Texans as well.)

 

I've spent the last 20 years being amazed at how often someone (or some collective) can be wrong when it's more about power than reason. Mangini's been far from perfect, but I see a lot of similarities to the present attacks and past inaccuracies that seem to be forever buried from scrutiny.

 

 

Great note. I can't believe the number of people who swallow what the Cleveland media hands them hook, line, and sinker.

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No. I may have misread the post a little. I agree. We do need a competent GM. Actually, we might need to hire a recognizable "face" to calm the masses as you suggest. I don't even completely discount the fact that Mangini might have to go for the purpose of damage control. I don't think the backlash against Mangini is fair, though. And I fear it may delay a legitimate rebuild for another year or two. It pains me to see that player's agents, the national and local media, and some malcontented players are shaping public opinion in a way that distorts what is the complete truth.

 

Locally, since Belichick shut down media access our local media has gone out of its way to show our coaches who is boss . . . that the pen is mightier than the whistle. They were wrong about Belichick and created an atmosphere that, I think, largely contributed to losing the franchise to Baltimore. Beloved Bernie never started for anyone else. Bill got three rings and became a sure-fire HOF legend. Art got his superbowl. Vinny played in big games and became a Pro Bowler. We got a three year time out, but got to keep the name, the colors and the media.

 

The media helped chase Palmer too soon, clashed egos with Davis, told us that Bruce Arians was an idiot that didn't know how to use Tim Couch, told us Jeff Garcia was the worst QB ever, told us we were in good hands with "draft guru" (how many times have you seen that in print) Phil Savage, and now have pinned all Savage's failings on Mangini after 9 games. They've been wrong so many times, and no one calls them on it. Everyone just follow the next charge.

 

Arians got his Superbowl, Tim Couch remains out of football, Phil Savage proved he can't draft his way out of a wet paper bag, and Garcia found the Pro Bowl again (along with Antonio Bryant and Kellen Winslow and Jeff Faine left over from Butch Davis's "talentless" roster. The roster where the Defensive line played in the AFC championship as the Denver Broncos, where Anthony Henry played a vital role in the Cowboy's defense, where Leigh Bodden would go on to start at strong side corner for the Patriots, and where Chris Crocker has been said to be a big part of the recent Bengals resurgence. From that roster, Andre Davis has spent some good years as a third receiver with the Texans as well.)

 

I've spent the last 20 years being amazed at how often someone (or some collective) can be wrong when it's more about power than reason. Mangini's been far from perfect, but I see a lot of similarities to the present attacks and past inaccuracies that seem to be forever buried from scrutiny.

 

REALLY good post! Take a bow! It's not as simple as 1 tiny symptom Tony Grossi and company wants portray as the deadening poison. There's way more than 1 symptom sickening this franchise. Always has been. If/when we keep treating the wrong symptoms - the illness remains in tact as desadly as ever.

 

Carmen Policy got out of town without as much as 1 single fan holding him the tinyest bit accountable. Meanwhile fans were calling Palmer and threatening hi sfamily like they actually KNEW he was the sole reason we sucked for some reason. We gotta be careful enough to recognize that battery tossers symbolize BLIND hatred for nothing more singinificant than BLIND hatred.

 

Mangini doesn't want to come here and SUCK as bad as the deck he was handed after sandwiching a 9 win season with a 10 win season in NY. That said, he wins when he has the talent to do so. Now that the Jets hired their DREAM Head Coach - are they headed for 9 or 10 wins right now? What's the innovatiove excuses?

 

Let's hire this drop-dead perfect GM and se what Mangin has to offer in terms of coaching.

- Tom F.

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The first part of this post is dead on. But remember, this offense was so terrible down the stretch of last season that we went what? Six games without scoring a TD. And that was with an offensive coordinator who just one year earlier was considered one of the best young minds in football. I still think that Chudinski is beyond competent.

 

What happened? Harder schedule, declining play of Steinbach/Fraley/Schaeffer. Lewis got a year older and a year slower and lost desire. Injury limitations on Winslow. Defenses learned what Edwards can and can't do and adjusted accordingly. JJ had six knee surgeries and staff infections. Stallworth was an overrated bust/drunkard who killed a guy after a bender with Edwards the day after he collected his roster bonus.

 

Coming into this season, the team was on even further decline. Our only superior run blocking defensive lineman Tucker lost his will to play after a long time battle with mental issues. Winslow wanted (and got) a HUGE contract that considering his injury risk would have put the team in a bind. Heiden (beginning last year) could not stay healthy for an entire game. Steinbach's game has continued to deteriorate. Hadnot (who was not a great sign in the first place) got injured.

 

Guys, Edwards mailed it in the second half of last year playing for the players coaches to end all players coaches. He was asking opposing players who their modeling agent was DURING THE GAME!! Again, the offense was impotent and in decline.

 

You had your diva 1st round QB getting decked by one of your more player popular defensive linemen. I.E. a divided locker room.

 

The book is still out on Quinn, but my guess is neither QB on this roster will have a distinguished NFL career.

 

So, Mangini came in with a crap-filled roster, four draft picks, and not a ton of money under the cap with which to work. The team he inherited would compete in arguably the toughest division in football. The second and third placed teams met in the AFC championship last year.

 

He was thrown into a fire fight with a couple of bullets and a sling-shot.

 

So what has he done so horribly?

 

The QB competition: See divided locker room. Some of these guys played with Anderson in his pro bowl year. Say what you want about him, but he saved that season from Charlie Frye. Then he had a horrible 2008 minus one shining Monday night. So why did Mangini take so long to name a starting QB? Perhaps he wanted someone to WIN the job in practice and in scrimmages . . . to become a leader. When that didn't happen, he went with Quinn, saw the season slipping away, a locker room becoming further divided, and a likely waste of $11 million that could be used to improve the team. What was lost? Quinn looked terrible in the first 3 games, and just as terrible as Anderson in the last. NEITHER looks worthy of a starting NFL QB job. $11 million saved. Still a chance to evaluate Quinn. A base for comparison. Can you imagine how we'd rate Quinn's performances if we hadn't seen Anderson? Even in retrospect, thinking logically, I can't see any fault in this.

 

The Jets -- Barton, Coleman and Mosley have been serviceable players. Better than the guys they replaced. Bowens has been good. Trusnik is starting to look like a steal as a minor part of the Edwards deal. Elam is young and developing and, IMO, worthy of about a third round pick. Stuckey hasn't looked good in his limited time -- but the reports on him say #3 receiver with good hands. Poteat is who we thought he was. I'd he harsher on this move had we had ANY depth at DB. Yeah, the Jets are mostly on the defensive side of the ball and have been some of the most consistent players.

 

 

The Defense -- Kosar, right before taking his gig with the Borwns was on radio saying one of the early problems with the defense was that Mangini had brought a sophisticated NE "disguise" defense to a team full of players used to playing vanilla. He said the scheme requires smart players, has a steep learning curve, and that some of the guys would never get it and they'd have to move on. The ABJ writer wrote an article saying that the Browns should simplify the defense in the second half (which was moronic). I think we've seen in the last two week that this defensive scheme is starting to pay dividends. It still doesn't have all the necessary pieces, but it's more promising than anything I've seen on that side of the ball since the return. We're down both our starting LBers and still looked good on Monday minus one play by the defense's weakest link and one terribly disorganized play. I love Rob Ryan, but to think that this defense is all HIS and then to lay that disorganized play on Mangini is turning things around a little. I do think the Mangini-Ryan marriage is a good one.

 

The Offense -- yeah, it's been putrid. But it was putrid last year, too. See the personnel problems listed above. This COULDN'T be fixed in one season. No pass for Mangini. He brought in St. Clair, Womack and Royal as stop gaps and all have been terrible. Yeah, he's probably stubbornly sticking with Daboll, but doesn't that kind of fly in the face of the theory that he's a guy who "throws people under the bus". Like all the blind source speculation that that is what he did to Kookinis? Wasn't Daboll the much easier target? I mean, two coaches fired their O-coordinators before the season even started. The offense IS a cause for concern. But Mangini has really laid only a couple bricks to his foundation. A foundation that started only with Joe Thomas and maybe Lawrence Vickers as solid long-term pieces. Given another year, Mangini will draft another lineman or two with a plan to turn the Thomas Joneses of the world into the present-day Thomas Jones. Yes, a running game to take the pressure off the QB built the right way. Historically, little can be expected of first year receivers. Mo Mass and Robo need a chance to grow. Judge them next season once we have some of the other offensive pieces in place. In my memory, no second round rookie receiver has ever lifted a team out of the NFL's offensive basement.

 

The Draft -- trade downs. One of the reasons good teams stay good is that they get good players they don't have to bet the farm on. You can take an interior linemen with the 20th pick and NOT pay him like an established, elite player. The Couches, Warrens and Browns of the world were a HUGE strain on the Browns' ability to build the remainder of the team and just didn't give value for their relative price. Teams know this. It's why it's so hard to trade out of the top picks and the draft value chart should be discounted. I loved the strategy to get out of the top picks once Curry was gone. This team is not ready for a rookie QB even if you think Sanchez is the guy. The players? Anybody that watched Mack last night should feel good that he was a value pick. Smart guy, should have a good, long NFL career. Robiskie? See above. Worrisome, but you have to give him some time. MoMass has flashed some ability. Veikune? Absent, but the DE to LB conversion projects often take a while. The top conversion project was Robert Ayers and even he hasn't done much yet in his NFL career. Maivia? Already more productive than Rey-Rey in limited appearances. Francies? We'll see. He looked to have some tools in preseason. Davis? Looked good in preseason. May develop into something as the O-line continues to get built. I give the draft strategy as solid B+. The picks an incomplete.

 

Winslow. I liked Winslow, but I wouldn't have given him that huge contract with his injury history, and without it he would have been a problem in the locker room. He already had a strained relationship with the club thanks to Opie's unprofessional ways. The compensation was reasonable. Winslow was a high risk/high reward player that the rest of this roster could not absorb.

 

Edwards. A punk. Other than the Jets trade, the best case to salvage value for him was to offer him 110% of this year's salary as an RFA (paid like a top 10 receiver already) and take the chance that someone else would sign him away. Does anyone really believe his production warrants top 10 pay? His value was slipping by the day as he contributed nothing while establishing a criminal record. Third and a fifth rounder (from a team that looks like it might be picking in the top 1/3 of the draft at this point )and Trusnik who looks to have some major upside. That's called cutting losses.

 

Released players from Savage era? None are contributing anywhere. The vast majority are not even on an NFL roster. Leon Williams, for instance, ended up anchoring one of the worst defenses against the run in the UFL. Beau Bell bused my table at dinner last night.

 

Non-signed free agents: Sean Jones. I liked Jones, but the rap was that he wasn't a smart guy. Probably could not have played within the system. Doesn't start in Philly. The third down back that went to Arizona? Anybody else worth mentioning?

 

Bottom line is that I'm seeing the defense improve, even with injuries. The scheme looks solid. The special teams has remained strong. The team has become more disciplined. It is not there entirely, but it has improved. The offense is in need of an overhaul. But that was the case last year as well. We are well positioned now through the draft to address that in a reasonable way -- building from the inside out in what is supposed to be a very deep draft armed with multiple second and third round picks.

 

What are the other raps on Mangini? The forced bus trip to make the rookies participate in a charitable event. Wow . . . the guy is a monster for wanting athletes to give back to the community. The heavy fines designed to strip players of the sense of entitlement that creates the Braylon Edwards of the world? Yeah, that's so wrong. Practice opportunity drills that were done in NE and that the league has found no wrongdoing? That he runs a "tough practice" with a team that has shown it can't tackle or block? And now what's the deal with the Cribbs injury. His injury had NOTHING to do with the play. A defensive player hit him without the ball. Is the argument that the Browns should have taken a knee and conceded the shut out? Or that the kick returner and special teams gunner is to valuable fragile to be on the field on the last play?

 

The media is making it impossible for Mangini to do his job. The fan support for some of this nonsense has allowed the players of a team that went 4-12 last year under a player-friendly coach to engage in a power struggle with the coach and undermine what he is trying to do. It's the inmates running the asylum.

 

1-8 is bad. Not completely unexpected, but bad. THe offense has been horrible. But to act like everything has been done wrong and that areas have not improved is myopic.

 

I think order is on its way to being restored but for the interference from outside influences. It reminds me a lot of the Belichick days.

 

 

I wrote less than this in my final dissertation in college. Good job bro. :)

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We have people POSTING IN ALL CAPS ABOUT WANTING MANGINI FIRED RIGHT THE F* NOW!

 

and all I can say is that you guys really need to chill out. You will throw out the baby with the bathwater.

 

I agree. Why run the risk that the interim coach will do a better job and give the team a slightly worse draft pick.

 

Keep Mangini for now if only to give you the best shot at drafting 1st.

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