Flugel Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 I'm gonna give Solon his props for Josh Freeman drafted by Tampa Bay. He was a big Freeman fan and I told him we needed to see what we had between Quinn and Dumb Ass. I now, I have waterboy credibility. Anyway, let's look at what we have remaining on this team: Zastudil , Punter, when healthy - A Cribbs, Return guy, when healthy - A Rogers, NT, when healthy - A Joe Thomas, LT, when healthy - A It's a nucleus we can build around. Here's some young guys I see promise with: Kaluka Maiva, ILBer, I likey-likey Athyba Rubin, NT, I likey-likey Alex Mack, Center, I likey-likey MoMass, WR, sometimes I likey-likey - somtimes i say uh-oh (looked good when we had a #1 WR on the other side) Here's some free agents I like: Eric Steinbach, OG still shows me something. RoBaire Smith, DT/DE, playing hard after severe injury. Abran Elam, SS, I like this guy. David Bowens, ILBer, looked like a real natural at ILBer on MNF Basically, we need skill positions and scoring threats via the draft and free agency. QB position - get someone new and it'll be an improvement. WR position - we can easily do better with blindfolds on. RB position - are you kidding me? it would take effort to remain this disgusting so it's an easy upgrade.. Other area needing improvement? Right side of oline. Don't draft candyasses like Isuck Sowells and Jon Dunn after round 1 when there's talent out there. Good news? We're not THAT far from competing if we bring in some of the right people. Bad news? We've been this close since the Lerner family took us over. I think Randy is sincere that he WANTS to get it right but that hasn't meant ski-waat yet. Let's wait and see... - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloridaBrownsFan Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 No love for Dawson or DQ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl34 Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 For the most part, I'm not going to disagree here Tom but I think that one guy who still is too early to decide on (that you didn't mention) is Veikune. When they drafted him, I honestly wasn't sold on it. All I could think was "Gholston". That said, in the limited amount of time I've gotten to see of Veikune...he does show considerable motor, toughness and athleticism which Gholston never showed in NY. I think with Veikune the delay is from the neck up. I've heard and read in various places that the switch from 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB is much more difficult than people think. I don't know how true that is but I notice around the league that some guys that are successful doing it are not rookies. They seem to have been in the league for a couple of years before they bloom. Also, let's not forget James Davis. There is something special about this kid. As for your assessments, the only one I don't agree with is that I am not so impressed with Steinbach this season. For a guy who was a highly touted free agent a few years back his lowlights are simply awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gips Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 For the most part, I'm not going to disagree here Tom but I think that one guy who still is too early to decide on (that you didn't mention) is Veikune. When they drafted him, I honestly wasn't sold on it. All I could think was "Gholston". That said, in the limited amount of time I've gotten to see of Veikune...he does show considerable motor, toughness and athleticism which Gholston never showed in NY. I think with Veikune the delay is from the neck up. I've heard and read in various places that the switch from 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB is much more difficult than people think. I don't know how true that is but I notice around the league that some guys that are successful doing it are not rookies. They seem to have been in the league for a couple of years before they bloom. Also, let's not forget James Davis. There is something special about this kid. As for your assessments, the only one I don't agree with is that I am not so impressed with Steinbach this season. For a guy who was a highly touted free agent a few years back his lowlights are simply awful. I see it like earl sees it flugs from top to bottom especially on davis ,veikune and steinbach who is getting ran over this year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted November 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 No love for Dawson or DQ? Thanks for the reply FBF! Dawson hasn't been in the lineup most of the year but I can see your point. He's been pretty steady since day 1 of 1999. You're probably not going to like this next reply about DQ but I'm trying to be honest with what I've seen. I run hot and cold with him because I had ultra high expectations for him. I thought he'd be one of Phil's best picks and some say he is. Here's my current perceptions and thought process. I think D'Qwell Jackson was SUPPOSED to be a great one so everyone looks at tackle volumes on days we can't get off the field and says "he's a gem." We're also equipped with a homer mentality where we want to cling onto anything the press deems positive. Trouble is how many of media guys out there know the first thing about 1st step instinct? Wali Rainer made a ratload of tackles too; but they were in too many locations that never got our D off the field. How hard can standing up behind Shaun Rogers be as an ILBer? While I like the fact Jackson doesn't quit on a play, I don't see that quality first step instinct so many great ILBers have. On MNF, Kaluka M and D Bowens were relatively new to starting to the position and I saw ALOT more tackles from our ILBers on or behind the line of scrimmage. Furthermore, have you ever noticed how infrequently the instinctive LBers with that first step ever have to say "I got blocked?" Never. I'll say it again, 1st step instinct is the difference between making plays at or behind the line of scrimmage consistently and making plays 5-45 yards downfield. Not saying he has to be Ray Lewis - just saying I dropkicked the overhype on this guy. Our defense played about as good as it could on MNF without anyone feeling a deep loss for DQ. A year or 2 ago, I had Ronnie Brown in ff and it was a point per reception league so I counted 9 receptions in DQ's hook zone giving DQ 9 tackles. The problem with that is he averaged 8 yards a catch for 73 yards inspite of Jackson making every tackle. Does this mean I'm psyched an opponent spots an ILBer, considers his hool zone a weakness and makes it the bullseye of their game plans? People just looking at stats tell me that's 9 tackles just in the passing game and I can only respond - that's also 9 examples of why we don't get off the field within 3 plays. In comparison, I've seen slower footed ILBers like Teddy Bruschi that ALWAYS seem to intercept at least 1 or 2 of these passes and bat some down. Hence, they aren't the bullseye of game plans because OC's note their first step instinct. It matters. They wouldn't dare throw to Ray Lewis' hook zone 9 times either so I'd prefer THAT type of presence. I don't want a 3-4 that invites a cavity in the center of the field when ouyr NT is taking on 2-3 blockers. Maybe I just got too spoiled watching guys like Mike Johnson, Pepper Johnson and even Eddie Johnson. Dick Ambrose didn't suck either. Think about what you saw on MNF from 2 very inexperienced ILBers (on this team at that position). It was quietly the best ILBer performance of the season. Nothing to exploit and our D only gave up 1 TD as our offense gave up the other right? Let's hope I'm not jinxing these guys today. MOST of the successful 3-4s I've seen in the past had a force inside at LBer and if there was a NT as good as Rogers - you better believe that force would only become stronger. I'm waiting to see justification to STAY in this defense and ILBer is very critical to that. The mere existence of the 3-4 defense is predicated off these 2 things: the Nose Tackle and the LBers. We need to be better than Wali Rainer inside, especially since Rogers keeps girth off our ILBers. - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted November 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 For the most part, I'm not going to disagree here Tom but I think that one guy who still is too early to decide on (that you didn't mention) is Veikune. When they drafted him, I honestly wasn't sold on it. All I could think was "Gholston". That said, in the limited amount of time I've gotten to see of Veikune...he does show considerable motor, toughness and athleticism which Gholston never showed in NY. I think with Veikune the delay is from the neck up. I've heard and read in various places that the switch from 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB is much more difficult than people think. I don't know how true that is but I notice around the league that some guys that are successful doing it are not rookies. They seem to have been in the league for a couple of years before they bloom. Also, let's not forget James Davis. There is something special about this kid. As for your assessments, the only one I don't agree with is that I am not so impressed with Steinbach this season. For a guy who was a highly touted free agent a few years back his lowlights are simply awful. Thanks Earl - good stuff as always! It looks like I forgot alot of the injured guys so I definitely agree on the intrigue about James Davis. Loved what I saw in the preseason. I thought Steinbach looked fantastic in the Cincy and Buffalo games. He's REALLY effective trap blocking inside and he wasn't bad with straight ahead either. Aside from that Earl (and Gips), you have to understand he's helping out a rookie Center next to him much the way he once helped Joe Thomas on the other side of him getting acclimated to the NFL. Do you remember Joe Thomas' first preseason when Steinbach wasn't playing in the exhibition games? Joe got busted for holding and got beat. When the regular season started it was like Steinach took him under his wing and there was an instant comfort zone. This next point matters way more than people think: when the threat of throwing the ball deeper than 5 yards downfield completely vanishes - 11 defenders can play the run and cram the box. There's no way an oline wins the line of scrimmage in this one (remember when Barry Swittzer brought that wishbone in front of JJ's Miami Hurricanes D. Nobody played and they killed Oklahoma. Not because Ok's oline sucked but because they got outnumbered at the line of scrimmage). That means alot of traffic aimed at a rookie Center, which might not always make the OGs next to him looking wonderful. Numbers tell me 5 blocker won't beat 9 guys coming ever. I've heard some comparigng Steinbach to Joe Andruzzi and I don't buy it for a second. It seems like there's more people thinking Steinbach sucks than sharing my opinion though. I thought he looked REAL good in 2007 and wasn't bad in 2008. Let's watch him closely today and re-open this discussion. I don't have an opinion on Veikune yet. Alot of what you say about adapting to the edge is correct. Another good job by you. - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloridaBrownsFan Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 Thanks for the reply FBF! Dawson hasn't been in the lineup most of the year but I can see your point. He's been pretty steady since day 1 of 1999. You're probably not going to like this next reply about DQ but I'm trying to be honest with what I've seen. I run hot and cold with him because I had ultra high expectations for him. I thought he'd be one of Phil's best picks and some say he is. Here's my current perceptions and thought process. I think D'Qwell Jackson was SUPPOSED to be a great one so everyone looks at tackle volumes on days we can't get off the field and says "he's a gem." We're also equipped with a homer mentality where we want to cling onto anything the press deems positive. Trouble is how many of media guys out there know the first thing about 1st step instinct? Wali Rainer made a ratload of tackles too; but they were in too many locations that never got our D off the field. How hard can standing up behind Shaun Rogers be as an ILBer? While I like the fact Jackson doesn't quit on a play, I don't see that quality first step instinct so many great ILBers have. On MNF, Kaluka M and D Bowens were relatively new to starting to the position and I saw ALOT more tackles from our ILBers on or behind the line of scrimmage. Furthermore, have you ever noticed how infrequently the instinctive LBers with that first step ever have to say "I got blocked?" Never. I'll say it again, 1st step instinct is the difference between making plays at or behind the line of scrimmage consistently and making plays 5-45 yards downfield. Not saying he has to be Ray Lewis - just saying I dropkicked the overhype on this guy. Our defense played about as good as it could on MNF without anyone feeling a deep loss for DQ. A year or 2 ago, I had Ronnie Brown in ff and it was a point per reception league so I counted 9 receptions in DQ's hook zone giving DQ 9 tackles. The problem with that is he averaged 8 yards a catch for 73 yards inspite of Jackson making every tackle. Does this mean I'm psyched an opponent spots an ILBer, considers his hool zone a weakness and makes it the bullseye of their game plans? People just looking at stats tell me that's 9 tackles just in the passing game and I can only respond - that's also 9 examples of why we don't get off the field within 3 plays. In comparison, I've seen slower footed ILBers like Teddy Bruschi that ALWAYS seem to intercept at least 1 or 2 of these passes and bat some down. Hence, they aren't the bullseye of game plans because OC's note their first step instinct. It matters. They wouldn't dare throw to Ray Lewis' hook zone 9 times either so I'd prefer THAT type of presence. I don't want a 3-4 that invites a cavity in the center of the field when ouyr NT is taking on 2-3 blockers. Maybe I just got too spoiled watching guys like Mike Johnson, Pepper Johnson and even Eddie Johnson. Dick Ambrose didn't suck either. Think about what you saw on MNF from 2 very inexperienced ILBers (on this team at that position). It was quietly the best ILBer performance of the season. Nothing to exploit and our D only gave up 1 TD as our offense gave up the other right? Let's hope I'm not jinxing these guys today. MOST of the successful 3-4s I've seen in the past had a force inside at LBer and if there was a NT as good as Rogers - you better believe that force would only become stronger. I'm waiting to see justification to STAY in this defense and ILBer is very critical to that. The mere existence of the 3-4 defense is predicated off these 2 things: the Nose Tackle and the LBers. We need to be better than Wali Rainer inside, especially since Rogers keeps girth off our ILBers. - Tom F. I understand your point. He has the same hype surrounding him that Andra Davis had when he led the league in tackles for a season or two. He makes tackles, but they are usually down field as opposed to behind the line of scrimmage. I think most of his hype comes from Mangini's comment that he is one of the untouchables on the team (with Joe Thomas). I do think that DQ still has the ability to be even better and become the leader of our Defense, but I don't think he will ever have the impact that Ray Lewis has. Part of that assessment has to do with the fact that DQ is already undersized. But I do agree with Earl in saying that Veikune has the potential to reach that level. Veikune has the toughness, motor, and the aggressive to be a presence in the middle of the field. We just have to give it time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted November 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 I understand your point. He has the same hype surrounding him that Andra Davis had when he led the league in tackles for a season or two. He makes tackles, but they are usually down field as opposed to behind the line of scrimmage. I think most of his hype comes from Mangini's comment that he is one of the untouchables on the team (with Joe Thomas). I do think that DQ still has the ability to be even better and become the leader of our Defense, but I don't think he will ever have the impact that Ray Lewis has. Part of that assessment has to do with the fact that DQ is already undersized. But I do agree with Earl in saying that Veikune has the potential to reach that level. Veikune has the toughness, motor, and the aggressive to be a presence in the middle of the field. We just have to give it time. We shall see - Veikune was a 2nd round pick and we're basically watching #93 play his spot. Hence the my reluctance to say give him a thumbs up or a thimbs down just yet. I agree with Earl's comment about the edge. - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Freeman needed to sit a little more on the bench(he isn't ready) but may be the best Qb in that draft in the end... boy does he have a super arm....time will tell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted November 29, 2009 Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 hmmm jake allen active...robiskie not? wtf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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