The 75 Mile Radius

[The Gipper]

OK, given the current state of things what with the Browns possibly being blacked out, I did some research on the 75 mile radius that the NFL has declared to be an NFL teams "natural" marketplace.

I have actually used a map to draw up these 75 radii for each market as this is the sort of minutiae I often get into. I will "catalog" the markets here, giving what areas are overlapped and what cities in the US are open.

FYI, I only did this for the East, Midwest and South. I figured that out west no areas were nearly that close with the exception of the Bay area for me to be concerned with:

 

A. The Boston/New England 75 mile radius stands alone, i.e. it does not overlap any other market. The closest is NYC.

.......A.1. Hartford, New Haven Conn. and Springfield Mass. sit outside the Boston radius and can be considered "open" cities as is Albany NY

 

B. The New York and Philly 75 mile radii have major overlap in central New Jersey. Trenton/Princeton/Asbury Park fall in both markets. Atlantic City is solely in the Philly radius.

 

C. Philadelphia and Baltimore have major overlap of the radii. Most of Delaware falls in the overlap as does Lancaster Pa.

.......Harrisburg Pa. Sits just outside the boundary of each

 

D. Washington and Baltimore as you might expect have massive overlap of their NFL 75 mile radii because they are so close.

.....in fact, there is a swath in parts of Maryland and Delaware that are overlayed by 3 market radii, Philly, Baltimore and Washington. This is the only place in the country where this happens. Included in that swath are Aberdeen Md., Havre de Grace and Dover.

 

E. Buffalo's radius has no overlap with another market.

 

F. Baltimore and Pittsburgh also have no overlap.

.......State College Pa, and Altoona are "open cities".

 

G. The most unique "open city" in the country may in fact be Erie Pa. It sits just outside the Buffalo radius, and just outside the Cleveland radius, and just outside the Pittsburgh radius. It is almost equidistant, 85 miles, from each of those 3 major cities.

 

H. Pittsburgh and Cleveland as we know have overlap that include the cities of Youngstown, Warren, Niles, Sharon and Mercer Pa. and Lisbon, Carrolton and Columbiana Oh.

....the cities of East Liverpool and Steubenville Oh. sit solely inside the Pittsburgh radius.

 

I. Probably unknown to most of you is that Cleveland and Detroit actually have a far bigger overlap of area in their market radius than do Cleveland and Pittsburgh. As the crow flies Detroit is actually quite a bit closer to Cleveland than Pittsburgh is. The thing though is that much of that overlap consists of great parts of Lake Erie and southern Ontario. The cities that DO sit in the overlap include Sandusky, Port Clinton, Clyde and Fremont, Ohio and Leamington, Ontario.

 

J. Cincinnati and Cleveland do not come close to overlapping. In fact Columbus, Zanesville, Chillicothe, Marion, Lima all sit outside the 75 mile radius of either city.

 

K. Cincinnati and Indianapolis on the other hand have major overlap in areas of southeast Indiana. Cities like Richmond, Columbus Ind. are in both territories. Indy is in fact Cincy's closest "rival".

.....Louisville, Ky. is an "open" city, sitting about equidistant from Indy and Cincy. Lexington, Ky. is right on the edge of the Cincy radius.

 

L. Indianapolis and Chicago do not overlap.

.....Ft. Wayne Indiana is "open" but South Bend, Indiana is within the Chicago radius.

 

M. Chicago's radius does not technically overlap any other.

.....Oddly, Milwaukee is technically an "open" city as it sits outside the 75 mile radius of both Chicago and Green Bay. However, as anyone can tell you, Milwaukee IS a Packer towns.

Madison is an "open city as well.

 

N. Minnesota, Kansas City, and St. Louis all stand alone with no overlap.

.....Spingfield, Peoria, Bloomington, and Champaign-Urbana are "open cities".

 

O. All the markets in the south: Nashville, Charlotte, Atlanta, New Orleans, Jacksonville, Tampa, and Miami have no overlapping areas.

 

P. Chattanooga Tn. is an "open" city sitting equidistant between Nashville and Atlanta. The same is true for Greenville SC which sits half way between Atlanta and Charlotte.

 

Q. The other major cities of North Carolina, Greensboro, Raleigh, Durham, all sit outside the Charlotte market radius.

 

R. The Norfolk/Va.Beach/Newport News area, a major market in itself, sits more than 200 mile from DC.

 

S. In Florida, the Orlando, Ocala and Daytona Beach areas sit just outside of both the Jacksonville and Tampa 75 mile radii. They are thus "open cities." I don't know who they primarily root for. Perhaps there is a tug of war over the fans in those areas by the Jags and Bucs. Likewise, Ft. Myers actually sits about equidistant from both Tampa and Miami but outside their respective radius.

 

T. As I mentioned I didn't cover the west, as except for San Fran and Oakland all the markets are hundreds and hundreds of miles apart.

 

Hopefully, this has been somewhat illuminating.

 

 

[Pumpkin Eater]

Not many people in Orlando like the Jags. Actually the Dolphins seem to have the largest fan base in Orlando. Bucs second, Jags a distant, distant third.

[Thaak]

Item F seems to be a mistake. You say that Baltimore and Pittsburgh have no overlap (you mean of each other?) but in a couple items above and below talk about Baltimore and Pittsburg's overlaps.

[The Gipper]

Item F seems to be a mistake. You say that Baltimore and Pittsburgh have no overlap (you mean of each other?) but in a couple items above and below talk about Baltimore and Pittsburg's overlaps.

 

Yes, I meant with each other. Obviously they have overlap with other markets. Those two come close, but not quite. Good ole Breezewood sits smack in the middle between them. Anyone who has done any traveling out that direction knows about Breezewood.

 

[Thaak]

Yes, I meant with each other. Obviously they have overlap with other markets. Those two come close, but not quite. Good ole Breezewood sits smack in the middle between them. Anyone who has done any traveling out that direction knows about Breezewood.

 

I have actually. But its been 16 years. I was stationed at Fort Meade Maryland for 2 years, and I grew up near Kent. So the 6 hour trip down the PA turnpike was a regular occurrence for me. Now I don't remember why Breezewood rings a bell, but I'm wondering if that's where that strip club is? At the top of the hill if you cut through the town instead of taking the interchange from I95 to I80?

 

[585Dawg]

It's cool and all that you did that, but my god you must have no life

[Thaak]

It's cool and all that you did that, but my god you must have no life

 

I totally understand the connotation that what you said means... but...

 

If it is something he really enjoys doing, then he IS living. Just because he isn't out and about "doing" things that other people consider "having a life" doesn't mean he doesn't have one.

 

I'd wager, that in following one's passion, you have more of a "life" than those who are popularly considered to "have a life" in doing what they do. Additionally, if you engage in things you don't enjoy, even though popularly you would be considered to "have a life" then you would be less alive than if you followed your passion.

[Bob806]

I have actually. But its been 16 years. I was stationed at Fort Meade Maryland for 2 years, and I grew up near Kent. So the 6 hour trip down the PA turnpike was a regular occurrence for me. Now I don't remember why Breezewood rings a bell, but I'm wondering if that's where that strip club is? At the top of the hill if you cut through the town instead of taking the interchange from I95 to I80?

 

Yeah, good ole Breezewood. It's actually the I-70/ I-76 merge, with a lot of restaurants & truck stops.

 

There was a strip club or two in the area, that's what my friends told me

[professor_g]

Does anyone know whether I'm going to be blacked-out here in Oberlin?

[hoorta]

Does anyone know whether I'm going to be blacked-out here in Oberlin?

 

Oberlin is well within the 75 mile radius.

 

[hoorta]

J. Cincinnati and Cleveland do not come close to overlapping. In fact Columbus, Zanesville, Chillicothe, Marion, Lima all sit outside the 75 mile radius of either city.

 

 

Hopefully, this has been somewhat illuminating.

 

Unfortunately, Dayton IS within the 75 mile radius, there's a ton of Browns fans here, and now that the Bungles are winning again, unless you have Directv Sunday ticket, a CBS-FOX conflict, or want to head to a bar you're going to be force fed Bungle ball. And the way the Browns are playing now, we've seen the last of nationally televised games for a very long time.

[ballpeen]

Oberlin is well within the 75 mile radius.

 

One thing people don't understand is in the areas with overlap, the blackout reaches far past the 75 miles.

 

Take Toledo...it is well past 75 miles from Cleveland, but the TV signals could overlap on Toledo's eastern viewing edge with Clevelands western edge. If so, all of Toledo can be blacked out. So the blackout could extend in to Indiana or however far Toledo's western edge extends.

 

That would apply to over the air broadcasts, not satellite like direct ticket. DT can signal individual boxes by zip code which allows it to stay much closer to the true 75 miles.

 

[The Gipper]

One thing people don't understand is in the areas with overlap, the blackout reaches far past the 75 miles.

 

Take Toledo...it is well past 75 miles from Cleveland, but the TV signals could overlap on Toledo's eastern viewing edge with Clevelands western edge. If so, all of Toledo can be blacked out. So the blackout could extend in to Indiana or however far Toledo's western edge extends.

 

That would apply to over the air broadcasts, not satellite like direct ticket. DT can signal individual boxes by zip code which allows it to stay much closer to the true 75 miles.

 

Toledo sits inside the Lions 75 mile radius. I would think that being outside Cleveland's radius, a Toldedo station would want to broadcast the Browns game, given that despite it being much closer to Detroit, the fan base is probably pretty evenly split between Browns/Lions.

[The Gipper]

It's cool and all that you did that, but my god you must have no life

 

 

Well, map reading/cartography is a bit of a hobby of mine. And traveling is a main hobby of mine. So this just fit right in there. I mean, I guess I could learn to knit....or to golf.....but those seem like "no life" activities to me at this point. My partner in this office golfs like 3-4 times a week, but you couldn't get him to watch a football game with a pry bar.

(actually I have golfed, and would again. I would just have to get back into it. Maybe someday I will go on golf trips, but for now, my travels usually take me to places to hike or historical sites, national parks etc. )

[The Gipper]

A main point of this exercise is to ask that question of "who do the people in these 'open' cities root for as fans"? And likewise who do the people in the overlap areas root for as fans?

Open areas like Columbus, Chattanooga, Greenville, Orlando, Louisville, Norfolk, Erie, etc. etc.

Ovelap areas like Youngstown, Sandusky, etc. etc.

 

 

 

 

[The Gipper]

I have actually. But its been 16 years. I was stationed at Fort Meade Maryland for 2 years, and I grew up near Kent. So the 6 hour trip down the PA turnpike was a regular occurrence for me. Now I don't remember why Breezewood rings a bell, but I'm wondering if that's where that strip club is? At the top of the hill if you cut through the town instead of taking the interchange from I95 to I80?

 

So? You were stationed at Ft. Mead. That is the location of the NSA and the DIA. Were you a spook?

 

[Thaak]

So? You were stationed at Ft. Mead. That is the location of the NSA and the DIA. Were you a spook?

 

chuckle... not really... the Army intelligence battalion located at Ft. Meade leases its soldiers out to the NSA. So I essentially worked for the NSA for 2 years.

 

I worked in an intelligence reporting office.

 

That's about as much as I can say.

[ClevelandFanForLife]

chuckle... not really... the Army intelligence battalion located at Ft. Meade leases its soldiers out to the NSA. So I essentially worked for the NSA for 2 years.

 

I worked in an intelligence reporting office.

 

That's about as much as I can say.

so what you're basically saying is that you let that couple into the white house. i figured it out. congrats to me.

[ballpeen]

Toledo sits inside the Lions 75 mile radius. I would think that being outside Cleveland's radius, a Toldedo station would want to broadcast the Browns game, given that despite it being much closer to Detroit, the fan base is probably pretty evenly split between Browns/Lions.

 

Maybe Toledo isn't the example I needed to use...but the point is if the Toledo broadcast reaches in to any part of the Cleveland blackout area, they can't broadcast the Browns game as that would shrink the mandated 75 mile radius.

[ballpeen]

A main point of this exercise is to ask that question of "who do the people in these 'open' cities root for as fans"? And likewise who do the people in the overlap areas root for as fans?

Open areas like Columbus, Chattanooga, Greenville, Orlando, Louisville, Norfolk, Erie, etc. etc.

Ovelap areas like Youngstown, Sandusky, etc. etc.

 

I live in Chattanooga, and root for the Browns.

 

But the area in general is pretty evenly split between the Falcons and Tits....really, most root for both since they are in different conferences.

 

[Zombo]

A main point of this exercise is to ask that question of "who do the people in these 'open' cities root for as fans"? And likewise who do the people in the overlap areas root for as fans?

Open areas like Columbus, Chattanooga, Greenville, Orlando, Louisville, Norfolk, Erie, etc. etc.

Ovelap areas like Youngstown, Sandusky, etc. etc.

 

 

There's not much support for the Bills in Northwest Pennsylvania. When I was growing up, the Browns had a stronger foothold in Erie than the Steelers but that has changed as the bandwagon has grown, I think Erie leans pretty favorably toward the Steelers now.

 

Erie actually contributed to my Browns fandom growing up. We were up in the Allegheny mountains and I actually grew up with cable because our town couldn't get any stations with an attena. We had two NBC stations, which carried the AFC in those days, Channel 11 was Pittsburgh and Channel 12 was Erie, and since Erie was open, it would carry the Browns most of the time when both teams played at 1PM. After the Steelers started winning Super Bowls, the Erie station started leaning toward the Steelers, and I remember one year I wrote the TV station to try and convince them to show the Browns games. Back in the days before Sports bars and DirecTV you were at the mercy of the local TV stations if you wanted to see your team play.

 

My hometown is 109 miles to Buffalo, 117 to Pittsburgh and 195 to Cleveland ... but there were very, very few Bills fans. There was the rare Browns fan like myself, the rest were 95% Steeler fans and about 5% Raider/Cowboy flavor of the month front-runner types (Hi Skippy!)

 

Zombo

[The Gipper]

chuckle... not really... the Army intelligence battalion located at Ft. Meade leases its soldiers out to the NSA. So I essentially worked for the NSA for 2 years.

 

I worked in an intelligence reporting office.

 

That's about as much as I can say.

 

 

Or, are you saying that you could tell me more, but then you would have to kill me?

[The Gipper]

Maybe Toledo isn't the example I needed to use...but the point is if the Toledo broadcast reaches in to any part of the Cleveland blackout area, they can't broadcast the Browns game as that would shrink the mandated 75 mile radius.

 

Oh, well, given that a broadcast station's range is probably about what? 50 -75 miles, that means that the blackout radius is in actuality about 125-150 miles, fair to say? Do they broadcast blacked out Browns games in Columbus which is about 120-140 miles from Cleveland?

 

[The Gipper]

I live in Chattanooga, and root for the Browns.

 

But the area in general is pretty evenly split between the Falcons and Tits....really, most root for both since they are in different conferences.

 

If push came to shove and the two teams met each other on the field, who would be the predominant favorite?

[hoorta]

Maybe Toledo isn't the example I needed to use...but the point is if the Toledo broadcast reaches in to any part of the Cleveland blackout area, they can't broadcast the Browns game as that would shrink the mandated 75 mile radius.

 

Well, if the game's blacked out, we'll find out the answer Sunday. The father-in law lives in Toledo. May have changed in the last 40 years- but IIRC, the '64 Championship game was blacked out in Cleveland, but not in Toledo.

 

Yeah, you're right, if you had a big enough antenna, you could pull in a Toledo station from Vermillion, or maybe even Lorain. But how many people in this day and age have one? And the reception in a fringe area on a HDTV would be darn near unwatchable- or on second thought, maybe not- read on.

 

Another thing to consider- with the digital over-the-air conversion, it's been my experience digital signals don't carry anywhere near as well as analog ones do. I live only about 5 miles from most local stations transmission towers (but on the lee side of a hill) and I need Radio Shack's top end amplified antenna to get any over-the-air reception at all.

 

[daydawg19]

Well, if the game's blacked out, we'll find out the answer Sunday. The father-in law lives in Toledo. May have changed in the last 40 years- but IIRC, the '64 Championship game was blacked out in Cleveland, but not in Toledo.

 

Yeah, you're right, if you had a big enough antenna, you could pull in a Toledo station from Vermillion, or maybe even Lorain. But how many people in this day and age have one? And the reception in a fringe area on a HDTV would be darn near unwatchable- or on second thought, maybe not- read on.

 

Another thing to consider- with the digital over-the-air conversion, it's been my experience digital signals don't carry anywhere near as well as analog ones do. I live only about 5 miles from most local stations transmission towers (but on the lee side of a hill) and I need Radio Shack's top end amplified antenna to get any over-the-air reception at all.

 

 

There is always "Taggert's". You were at my table there for a game last year. Mike

[Cowsrus]

Yeah, good ole Breezewood. It's actually the I-70/ I-76 merge, with a lot of restaurants & truck stops.

 

There was a strip club or two in the area, that's what my friends told me

 

 

I've been to Breezewood quite a few times. Didn't notice a strip club but if you jump over to Bedford there's a giant Coffee Pot! Plus you're close to a lot of old roadside Americana if you go down 30, the Lincoln Highway. Just wanted to add this bit of info.

 

Heidi

[VaporTrail]

Unfortunately, Dayton IS within the 75 mile radius, there's a ton of Browns fans here, and now that the Bungles are winning again, unless you have Directv Sunday ticket, a CBS-FOX conflict, or want to head to a bar you're going to be force fed Bungle ball. And the way the Browns are playing now, we've seen the last of nationally televised games for a very long time.

 

 

Within 75 miles of what? Do you mean Cincy? Dayton is most definitely not within a 75 mile radius of Cleveland, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was included in the blackout list, as it's a secondary market.

[hoorta]

Within 75 miles of what? Do you mean Cincy? Dayton is most definitely not within a 75 mile radius of Cleveland, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was included in the blackout list, as it's a secondary market.

 

It's considered a Cinci market- so we're stuck with the Bengals here. Damn, when they were doing poorly, I was praying Mike Brown would move 'em to Los Angeles, and the Browns would have been on every week- no need for Directv just like the good old days.

 

[ballpeen]

If push came to shove and the two teams met each other on the field, who would be the predominant favorite?

 

Couldn't say..it would be about 50/50.

 

We have the state line dynamic at play a bit more than some other areas.

 

College football rules in the south, and fans still stick to the state deal a bit. A large portion of what one would consider the Chattanooga area people who live in live in Georgia.

 

Really, I can't say I see more Titan jerseys or Falcons jerseys.

 

While obviously there are more people living in Tennessee as Chattanooga is the main population base, the Falcons have been around a lot longer so they have a loyalty factor advantage.

 

Really, if it was a tug of war, it would be a epic battle with that flag in the middle of the rope not moving very far off center one way or the other.