peterbell Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Mangini's Draft and Alex Mack Of all the bad ideas floated by those who want to run Eric Mangini out of Cleveland, one of the most frequently abused is that Mangini's first and only draft with the Browns has been a "disaster." Such a disaster that "he should be allowed nowhere near" the team's eleven draft picks next April. We'll ignore the inherent problems in making conclusions about an NFL draft after only one season* to point out that a big reason why the criticism of Mangini's draft has become so typical is that it's especially easy to criticize a draft when its top pick is used to fill one of the most unglamorous positions in football. But center is also one of the most important positions, and the selection of Alex Mack in last April's first round is consistent with the build-for-the-long term approach that Mangini has brought to Cleveland. In responding to a comment at Posnanski's blog on Monday, we found strong support for the Mack pick in a 2009 Draft preview piece by CBS Sportsline's Pete Prisco that highlights so much that we love about what Mangini's brought to Cleveland. It's worth excerpting at length: If the two tackle spots and center are the three most valuable positions on the offensive line -- which everyone insists they are -- why is center so under-drafted? The answer might be a simple one: Patience. Or lack of it. "Teams don't want to wait two years to have their first-round pick play," Atlanta Falcons offensive line coach Paul Boudreau said. "And with centers, it's such a tough position that you sometimes have to wait." With big dollars paid out to first-round picks, and coaches and general managers living on the edge in this era of instant gratification, it's easy to see why there is so much reluctance to take a position that might take some time. * * * It's not considered a premium position, until you don't have one. "Then you know how important it is," Boudreau said. There is a first-round worthy center in this year's group. His name is Alex Mack. He is from Cal and has the scouts drooling. At 6-foot-3 7/8 and 311 pounds, he has great size to handle the bigger nose tackles and good quickness to get out on linebackers. "Having a guy who can make the calls, like a quarterback, is such an important thing," Boudreau said. "He's controlling the guys in the huddle. He makes the calls. It's tough to get a guy who can do that." "We all know to run the ball you need a good center, especially with all the big defensive tackles," one NFC personnel director said. "But as far as drafting them goes, it's just not a position that we take high." Mack should change that. He's that good. But history says otherwise. Centers of attention? Not on draft day they aren't, which might need some re-visiting by the league's decision-makers. If you're like us, and think that caving to the pressures of this "era of instant gratification" is exactly what's been keeping the Browns franchise submerged for the last decade, you might be especially glad about the Mack pick. Even if not, it's hard to say that the Mack pick doesn't look like a very good one given the importance of the position, how tough it is to learn, and how well Mack has played there so far this season. It's also hard not to think that some of the Browns' other picks in the 2009 Draft weren't taken with a similarly long view. In any event, the consistency of the Mack selection with Mangini's long-term/big picture approach should give pause to critics of both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClevelandFanForLife Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 the center doesn't have to be the best blocker on the line, just the smartest. it is almost better to have a guy who gets beat every once in a while and can call audibles than to have a guy who can beat anyone but can't read blitzes. he is the quarterback of the line and needs to be a leader more than a blocker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c-dawg Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Fraley was getting crushed last year. Those big nose tackles were blowing him up. I actually felt sorry for him on some occasions cuz i like the guy and think he has been a real contributor over his time here. I haven't seen every down this year but Mack hasn't been bull-rushed like that. Problems with the shotgun snap have been there for sure, but I really like the way he pulls on some runs around the end (as well as any center I know of) and he can really get to the second level quickly and engage the LBs. He has a lot to learn to be sure, but overall I like this pick and think he he'll just get better and better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 I am an advocate of not allowing EM anywhere near our 11 draft picks....I'll explain again. Center is an important position. The browns lead the NFL in 1st round centers with 3...(no superbowls) The argument being "look who we have to face in our division"...blah blah blah.....while we rationalize taking a center in the first round....1.....baltimore starts a 6th rounder,Pitt a 6th rounder and cincy a udfa. 2....Frayley is very servicable while a later round center gets coached up. 3...we have no playmakers, and had beanie wells, jeremy machlin available in the first.... Em also drafted robo,momass and veikune in the second.....two can't crack the lineup on this horrific team= no good...while lesean McCoy,shonn green and a plethora of other talent making impact from 2nd/third rounds. Em brought in elam,bowens,barton,coleman,poteat,trusnik and mosely to our defense and we got worse... brought in rod hood as fa and was cut...we will see on roth Em got ratliff,stuckey, royal, st.clair,womack and hadnot....and we are worse. He botched the QB situation. He hired daboll and stands by him...he got kokinis hired. IN OTHER words.... he can't evaluate talent. I truly hope I'm wrong, but the evidence is clear to me. Not to mention he saps the enjoyment of playing football out of the team, can't motivate or inspire but excels at test giving and fines.... do not let him near the draft. P.S keeping lewis,sitting harrison and bringing us jennings....woohoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClevelandRocks Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Nobody questions mangini based on Mack, it was a good pick. Its the wasted 2nd round picks that make me very uncomfortable going into future drafts. I mean veikune?!? What the xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSixPat Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Nobody questions mangini based on Mack, it was a good pick. Its the wasted 2nd round picks that make me very uncomfortable going into future drafts. I mean veikune?!? What the xxxx While some rookies do show some significant flashes of being very good or even great players, I generally don't think one can fully assess drafted players until they've been given 3 years to develop. This is in part why those who think that Mangini will rebuild the team through the draft (albeit in part because the better free agents will refuse to come here) are in for a long slow wait IF Mangini can avoid the Vernon Gholston type picks of his past. I think all one can really do at this stage is question whether or not Mangini got value for trading out of #5. How did Mangini and his hand picked GM Kokinis do getting value for #5 compared to say, the Patriots who traded #23 and picked up Darius Butler, Julius Edelman, Brandon Tate and a 2010 Second rounder in return? I don't recall the specifics but I don't think Mangini added all that much in giving up #5. I could be wrong however. Beyond that, one can't truly give up hope about any of the players drafted... sure, everyone would prefer they immediately show they can outplay some pretty bad starters in the first place, but even some of the best players need time to adjust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tampadawgs Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Mack was a great pick, as for Momass and Robo they are good number 2 and 3 Wrs the problem is we have no number 1, if we can get a number 1 those to will look like good picks in the second round As for not taking Shown Greene I was upset cause I thought he was the best RB in the draft, and still think he will be. I also wanted the Browns to tae Orakbo last year, which he is leading all rookies in sacks this year. As for this year I want the Browns to take Eric Berry, I think thats a no brainer...and then go get speed CJ Spiller, We can put Spiller and Davis in the backfield and we would have speed for days back there. It would give us a threat for that homerun ball we are missing Then try to find a big WR in the third. If Mangini can pull that off, I would be a happy happy man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Mack was a great pick, As for this year I want the Browns to take Eric Berry, I think thats a no brainer...and then go get speed CJ Spiller, We can put Spiller and Davis in the backfield and we would have speed for days back there. It would give us a threat for that homerun ball we are missing Then try to find a big WR in the third. If Mangini can pull that off, I would be a happy happy man Yer missing something here. Mack low-middle first round was good value. The Browns will almost certainly draft top three. You don't draft a DB in the top three, I don't care if Berry projects out to be the next Ronnie Lott. Took a look back over the past 10 years, and a DB has never been taken in the top 3. So here's the DBs from the last 10 years that did get drafted top 10. Packman Jones, Antrell Rolle, Carlos Rodgers, Sean Taylor, DeAngelo Hall, Dunta Robinson. Terrence Neumann, Quentin Jammer, Roy Williams. (Ed Reed was drafted #24) Don't know about you, but I wouldn't trade any of them straight up for Mario Williams or Julius Peppers. If I'm building a fantasy team, I take Bruce Smith over Lott every time. You build up a great front seven, you can make do with adequate skill in the defensive backfield. (ask the Giants) Reverse it, and you're gonna suck. Other than pathetic run D, the Browns most glaring shortcoming on that side of the ball is a total inability mount an effective pass rush without blitzing to save their a**. So you either have to blitz Berry on every play, or watch an NFL qb count Mississippi 10, and throw to the guy who finally gets open. NO DB can contain coverage that long. So if we can't trade out of the top 3, (likely) we're taking that guy from Nebraska. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdl15 Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Mack was a great pick, as for Momass and Robo they are good number 2 and 3 Wrs the problem is we have no number 1, if we can get a number 1 those to will look like good picks in the second round As for not taking Shown Greene I was upset cause I thought he was the best RB in the draft, and still think he will be. I also wanted the Browns to tae Orakbo last year, which he is leading all rookies in sacks this year. As for this year I want the Browns to take Eric Berry, I think thats a no brainer...and then go get speed CJ Spiller, We can put Spiller and Davis in the backfield and we would have speed for days back there. It would give us a threat for that homerun ball we are missing Then try to find a big WR in the third. If Mangini can pull that off, I would be a happy happy man For one a center is a safe pick For two as far as we dropeed i think we should of pulled another first next year but..... and three kudos on the shonn greene comment i wanted him and he will be a beast once he get pt. And one question that really bothers me i wonder who romeo/savage would of taken or done with the picks last year? And you know that quinn was going to be the man last year under the best regime in cleveland since we came back, we didn't have that many holes not to go out and make more. Cant wait to see stalworth on the field again.lol Remember the Giants were offering more for Braylon Edwards than the jets were Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tampadawgs Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 I dont think we will have the first pic, I think Tampa will, and will in Tampa looks like they will take Suh. I dont think anybody will will trade up like last year with this draft class not really haveing anybody on offense that stands out that high in the draft. This draft will be a top heavy defenseive draft, after Suh who do you take???? Its Eric Berry the guys a monster....... GO to you tube and loo at Berry and Spiller...... And if we do have the first pic Tampa wants your Nebraska boy so bad they might give us a extra pic to jump up 1 spot... Bob Sanders make the Colts Defense a Super Bowl Defense, so does Ed Reed, so does Troy Palamue ( how ever you spell is name) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tampadawgs Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 I dont think we will have the first pic, I think Tampa will, and will in Tampa looks like they will take Suh. I dont think anybody will will trade up like last year with this draft class not really haveing anybody on offense that stands out that high in the draft. This draft will be a top heavy defenseive draft, after Suh who do you take???? Its Eric Berry the guys a monster....... GO to you tube and loo at Berry and Spiller...... And if we do have the first pic Tampa wants your Nebraska boy so bad they might give us a extra pic to jump up 1 spot... Bob Sanders make the Colts Defense a Super Bowl Defense, so does Ed Reed, so does Troy Palamue ( how ever you spell is name) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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