More Evidence of Good Coaching

[Flugel]

In the last few weeks, try to think of how many times you saw the offense false start or lineup incorrectly. How many holding calls or blocks in the back have you seen? Along the same lines how many times have you seen the defense jump offsides? How many cheap shots, face masks or undisciplined late hits have you seen? On STs, we're not getting penalized either. Now think about how undisciplined this team was in 2008 and there appears to be quite a bit of difference in these areas the media doesn't want our fanbase to see while they want Mangini gone as quickly as they wanted BB gone when he was here.

 

NOW, how many times have we seen our offense fumbling the ball away? I haven't seen many INTs either, which is more evidence of some decent coaching going on.

 

Last but not least, YOUNG players on this team are showing improvement or turning heads in recent weeks. Here's some examples:

1) TE Evan Moore - LOVED his game vrs San Diego and he had a nice catch vrs Pitt. I'm WAY more impressed with him than Royal.

2) LBer Marcus Benard - Wow! Plays made at or behind the line of scrimmage earns a double thumbs up!

3) WRer Chansi Stucky - seemingly getting better every week.

4) WR MoMass - the kid was even blocking well.

5) C Alex Mack - Had a very nice game against All Pro Casey Hampton.

6) LBer Kaluka Maiava - I liked the way he played against Balt & Pitt. Noticed most tackles near the line of scrimmage (+ .5 sack)

7) RB Chris Jennings - turning heads and clearly an upgrade over Jamal Lewis

8) P Reggie Hodges - he already has 12 punts inside the 20 for an avg of 40.9 yds and 3 touchbacks. Pretty impressive IMO.

 

1st year newcomers like David Bowens and Matt Roth are huge sparks for this team. David Bowens flatout plays ball where-ever we need him. He definitely understands sic em and so does Roth.

 

- Tom F.

[peterbell]

Great post Tom, Now if we could only get the Plain Dealer to print some facts that would be great

 

You want to know what improvement is by players and coaches. The second time we played division opponents

here is the breakdown

 

Ravens score 16 but there was a pick six in that game so we gave up 9

Bengals scored 16 but a FG after a pick and the BS call on big baby before the half so we gave up 10

Held the Steelers to 6 and totally shutting down thir running game and running all over them. 171 yds

 

Do you know how hard it is to run multiple shifts and motions..and doing it in no huddle!! Its f**king hard

and the Browns haven't gotten 1 penalty for illegal shift or formations..I coach, and let me tell you something to

be able to do that requires excellent teaching and coaching and great concentration from players.

 

So the 2nd time around defensively we've given up 8.3 pts a game to division opponents!!

 

We are currently the 5th ranked least penalzed team in the NFL..How did we do last year with penalties?

 

Thats seriously impressive work by the coaches and players and whatever their doing is

seriously working..

 

As Joe Friday would say."just the facts ma'am"

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Mangini is showing steady progress. I think we give him the time to prove himself a winner.

[kshutchins]

All you folks who read the PD, need to be writing in with your positive spin and calling in to radio shows instead of silently sitting my accepting the negatives. I'd do it but I'm in South Carolina so I'm sure my opinion won't carry much weight.

[Flugel]

Great post Tom, Now if we could only get the Plain Dealer to print some facts that would be great

 

You want to know what improvement is by players and coaches. The second time we played division opponents

here is the breakdown

 

Ravens score 16 but there was a pick six in that game so we gave up 9

Bengals scored 16 but a FG after a pick and the BS call on big baby before the half so we gave up 10

Held the Steelers to 6 and totally shutting down thir running game and running all over them. 171 yds

 

Do you know how hard it is to run multiple shifts and motions..and doing it in no huddle!! Its f**king hard

and the Browns haven't gotten 1 penalty for illegal shift or formations..I coach, and let me tell you something to

be able to do that requires excellent teaching and coaching and great concentration from players.

 

So the 2nd time around defensively we've given up 8.3 pts a game to division opponents!!

 

Thats seriously impressive work by the coaches and players and whatever their doing is

seriously working..

 

As Joe Friday would say."just the facts ma'am"

 

LOL! Joe Friday adds serious style points. Thanks Peterbell!

 

Very good points about the no huddle, shifts thing and improvements second time around. The impact of no stupdi penalties when we're on offense is we aren't putting ourselves in the 1st and 15s or 1st and 20s when things have already been challenging enough. On the defensive side, we're not shortening the opponent's proximity to scoring opportunities with add-ons. And STs is doing a great job of pinning the opponent deep or giving our offense less field to go to attain red zonage.

 

As we close the year, I'm watching games differently than I would if we had a shot at playoffs. I'm just looking for improvement and a nucleus of guys we can build on heading into 2010. Some will say it doesn't matter - a loss is a loss and a win is a win. True but who outside of our fanbase who on thos planet is going to remember if we win 3 games or 4 games? What they everyone CAN remember is did our team play as well as they could inspite of all the injuries and learning curves? For example, when we lost to Detroit - we got more LOVE from all the post game shows than we had all year. I wasn't happy with our DBs that day but it sure was nice to see we could connect on some deep passes for TDs. We're beginning to LEARN who these guys are wearing the jerseys. When they're showing promise - you can only say "I want to see more of this #58 or #34 or Evan Moore.

 

I think there's a huge bandwagon against Daboll and I'm not sure it's fair considering the inexperience Quinn had with regulr season game starts and the revolving door of lineup changes to our scoring weapons dept. Aside from that, how much experience did the folllowing players have: MoMass? Evan Moore? Chris Jennings? Brian Robiskie? Alex Mack? Sometimes shows up in disconnections with blitz adjustments at the speed of the game. I'm looking at Matt Stafford and Mark Sanchez and they've thrown alot of picks when their OCs said let er rip. If Daboll didn't emphasize don't be careless to Quinn vrs Pittsburgh - do we maintain that winning margin or get it established in the first place?

 

I make it a point not to read half the guys that were trying to get Mangini fired before we played our first preseason game. I knew they were the same columnists that wanted BB fired back in the day instead of giving us the Joe Friday takes you mentioned. We know guys like Parcells, BB and descendants from that group aren't warm and fuzzy with the media NOR do they like to inform 31 other teams about injuries or personnel ideas. If actions speak louder than words and fonts, would message does this team's recent rallies deliver? The players don't HATE Mangini as much as the media. That's good enough for me

- Tom F.

[Gips]

Winning is the end product of good coaching...whooping the steelers ass is priceless...however im still not even close to being sold on mangini's way...but he deserves another year and draft that he has built toward to either prove the critics wrong or prove them right...rome wasnt built in a day but it was technically destroyed in one...and the media shouldnt and wont be the ones to determine mangini's future in cleveland..

 

I hope mangini stays off the darth vader belichick wannabe train and just tries to be eric mangini and build us that promised "unique to cleveland" offense that will hopefully be a consistant and exciting team that will win us some games!

 

Baby steps suck but mangini is convinced its the best way to go to build consistancy but im convinced its the only way dumbo is capable of learning to be an OC..hehehehe .over time we shall see...

[peterbell]

If this franchise is run by the media's perception and its "un named league sources" and unsubstandiated rumors

we are in trouble. Mr. Learner is an educated man and will hopefully not be influenced by all the trash thats been

tossed at this team..99% of what they've said about Mangini has been debunked or just proven not true.thats a fact

[peterbell]

Winning is the end product of good coaching...whooping the steelers ass is priceless...im not even close to being sold on mangini's way...but he deserves another year and draft that he has built toward to either prove the critics wrong or prove them right...rome wasnt built in a day but it was technically destroyed in one...

 

I hope mangini stays off the darth vader belichick wannabe train and just tries to be eric mangini and build us a consistant team and win us some games!

 

The end product is correct, but this team needs playmakers and you know that Gips

The Indy coach is a great coach? That dude (I forgot his name) gets NO LOVE what so ever from the national media.

Why not, he's freakin undefeated as a rookie head coach, because the perception is he has great playmakers so its not really his coaching.

The two balla's we had were selfish, non team oriented guys looking for big contracts.they had to go, you know that Gips

If Mangini was the head coach of the Colts, would he be undefeated? HELL YES HE WOULD.

He's turning this team around with back ups and practice squad guys..The right playmakers are coming..soon

[NW Ohio Brownie]

In case you haven't noticed, the media has subtly changed its tactics against Mangini.

 

Now that this team has shown a competitive pulse in the last five games or so, but only have one win to show for it, the media is now trotting out the "Mangini can't tolerate superstars on his team" and "He won't win consistently with this roster" ideas.

 

Let's examine the first idea. So we're led to believe that Mangini's ego is sooo big that he's trying to prove to the rest of the NFL that he can win with garbage players? I don't know what's more ignorant about that idea. The fact that the media believes we had any superstars on this team coming into this season or that the media conveniently forgets that the two perceived superstars (Winslow, Edwards) we let go gave them plenty to print in terms of their me-first, selfish attitudes and actions. Mangini will tolerate superstars on this team if they buy in. Rogers, who's been criticized as selfish in the past, bought in and played fairly well this year. And is the media trying to say that Mangini would get rid of all guys that have extraordinary talent? Yeah, I'm sure he'd show Manning or Tomlinson the door because they're good.

 

Now, for the second idea. So he won't win consistently with this roster, eh? Really? You think so, doctor? That's what the offseason is for, you media puds. For roster improvement. There's no question Mangini won't win consistently with this roster, but he sure as hell is competing consistently with this roster. And he's done it the last three weeks against Cincinnati, San Diego, and Pittsburgh. That's a lockerroom that is not in disarray and anger as Shaw, McManamon, Grossi, Cabot, Goebbels and the rest of the propaganda army would like you to believe. Hell, Shaw even compared Mangini's leadership to the leader of the Heaven's Gate cult in his Sunday article. Inexplicable.

 

I'm all in for Eric Mangini. I have been since Day 1, and everything he's doing this year, everything, is a move made for the long haul. He's making daily decisions that are leading this franchise out of the darkness for the long haul. There is no quick fix, people. Please understand that. This is what Year 1 of a correct rebuild looks like: Clear the roster of players who don't fit in to the long term, clear some cap space, instill the culture you believe in, lose a lot of games but be consistent in your approach. Year 2 should bring roster improvement, continued consistency in approach, more success in the W-L column, and competitiveness each and every week. And so on and so on.

[BrownB499]

Nice point on Daboll ,Tom

 

No doubt this season has been ultra frustrating,and the offense has been down right offensive

but when your QB(both of them) misses a wide open target on 3rd & 8 hows that the OC's fault ?

Yes, he has missed badly on matchups and scheming issues,but how do you matchup with the Minnesota's with this roster?

 

Last years staff had already packed it in by this point in the season(with a better record) at least w/Daboll

we're seeing an attempt to put points on the board,we've seen WildDawg, Unbalanced lines, Jumbo formations

maybe not to perfection but we are seeing an effort to score.

Anyone recall the offense we were trotting out at the end of the season last year?

 

No, Daboll's not going to make any of us forget Lindy Infante any time soon but... really...what has he had to work with

this guy is coaching not to lose...because that's what he's been ask to do.

[professor_g]

Bud Shaw is becoming my most-despised Cleveland media personality. Here is what he wrote in today's paper:

 

O COME ON, ALL YE BROWNS FAITHFUL, MANGINI'S SLATE IS FAR FROM CLEAN

 

And to think Chris Palmer had two "breakthroughs" against Pittsburgh and still got fired.

 

Hard as it is to believe, some are getting carried away with the importance of Thursday's win over a mediocre Steelers team.

 

Other than the one or two or 600 bottles that found the field that time against Jacksonville -- OK, and other than the hearse driver who parked outside of Berea as a symbol of the dying twilight in Butch Davis' tenure -- when have we ever gone overboard concerning the Browns?

 

But word on the confetti-strewn street is that donations are being accepted to build a statue of Josh Cribbs to specs that will make the "FREE" stamp look like a Monopoly game piece.

 

In addition, sources nowhere close to the city and organization would neither confirm nor deny that an address change is under consideration for Cleveland Browns Stadium.

 

Call me a contrarian, but in my opinion, "Chris Jennings Boulevard" seems a little premature.

 

There's the added danger that such a road will lead you under the lake to Canada where Jennings made his football living before signing here.

 

Another indicator: Jim Brown, who should know better, called Thursday's win a "breakthrough."

 

Only retrospect can confer that title. By Brown's standards, an actual playoff season might invite the Rapture.

 

With Thursday being the greatest prime-time win over a defending Super Bowl champion since, uh, last season, you'd think Brown would exercise some perspective. Of course, nights like these make everybody a little giddy.

 

"We are the Cleveland Browns," the head coach said after the surprising victory, "and we showed we're a pretty good football team."

 

That wasn't Eric Mangini on Thursday night.

 

That was Romeo Crennel last year after beating the Giants, 35-14, on "Monday Night Football."

 

The undefeated Super Bowl champion Giants are not to be confused with the Super Bowl champ Steelers, who staggered in here having lost four consecutive games -- two of those against Kansas City and Oakland.

 

The win over New York gave the Browns a 2-3 record. It was declared a restart to their season after a rough start.

 

They would win twice more. The GM and head coach would not survive.

 

In other words, whoa Nellie.

 

It's fine to bask in a win over the Steelers, gloat even.

 

There's just no reason to suggest it's game-changing for the Browns or for Eric Mangini's future.

 

Mangini said Friday he hopes that anyone coming to Berea with the title "czar" would -- by the very act of having earned such an honorific -- be smart enough to look beyond the won-lost record.

 

He might want to be careful what he wishes for because the big picture doesn't necessarily beat the drum for his return, either.

 

Win out, stack victories over Kansas City, Oakland and Jacksonville on top of Pittsburgh, and Mangini can start to build a case.

 

But right now, by beating Pittsburgh he hasn't done anything Kansas City and Oakland haven't done.

 

Except not win as often.

 

 

[Canton Mike]

The end product is correct, but this team needs playmakers and you know that Gips

The Indy coach is a great coach? That dude (I forgot his name) gets NO LOVE what so ever from the national media.

Why not, he's freakin undefeated as a rookie head coach, because the perception is he has great playmakers so its not really his coaching.

The two balla's we had were selfish, non team oriented guys looking for big contracts.they had to go, you know that Gips

If Mangini was the head coach of the Colts, would he be undefeated? HELL YES HE WOULD.

He's turning this team around with back ups and practice squad guys..The right playmakers are coming..soon

 

I absolutely & totally agree! Playmakers cause disruption on the other side of the ball (can we say CRIBBS?) & I believe we will get one or more of those through free agency & the draft. Think about this...where would the following teams be without just ONE playmaker...

Colts..Manning (QB)

Cardinals..Fitzgerald (WR)

Ravens..Lewis (LB)

Vikings..Peterson (RB) or Favre (QB))

Pittsburgh..Palomalu (DB-S)

They make everone around them better. Also, with the return next year of DQ, we may see a real treat in Benard...I think that kid is the "real deal".

If we can add a real playmaker or two, next year could really show positive signs, & as Tom & others pointed out so well, there have been MANY positives this year. As the song states.."We've only just begun..".

Mike

[peterbell]

You're comparing 3 years of Crennal to 13 games of Mangini..thats fair?

 

Well, 32 teams passed on Jennings in the draft, we grabbed him UFA,

Considering how he looks now where would have he been drafted 3rd-4th is my guess

No one is naming a street after Jennings but a damn good UFA pick up by Mangini.No?

 

Josh Cribbs is are only true playmaker, we're excited he's staying..sorry "I'll Curb my Enthusiam"

 

What fans are seeing not reading is a team of hard working, team oriented players minus

superstars competing and showing great discipline going forward

[NW Ohio Brownie]

You're comparing 3 years of Crennal to 13 games of Mangini..thats fair?

 

Well, 32 teams passed on Jennings in the draft, we grabbed him UFA,

Considering how he looks now where would have he been drafted 3rd-4th is my guess

No one is naming a street after Jennings but a damn good UFA pick up by Mangini.No?

 

Josh Cribbs is are only true playmaker, we're excited he's staying..sorry "I'll Curb my Enthusiam"

 

What fans are seeing not reading is a team of hard working, team oriented players minus

superstars competing and showing great discipline going forward

 

 

pete,

 

Here's another thing they're overlooking with Mangini and Co. this year.

 

He's subtly grabbed guys that are better fits than what Savage and Crennel chose to roll with last year. Want an example or two? OK, here's a few.

 

Who would you rather have going forward?

1) Willie McGinest or Matt Roth?

2) Jamal Lewis or Chris Jennings?

3) Shaun Smith or Kenyon Coleman?

4) Braylon Edwards or Mohammed Massaquoi?

5) Tim Carter or Chansi Stuckey?

6) Hank Fraley or Alex Mack?

 

To be fair, I think Mangini's additions at certain areas have been washes. Here's a few.

1) Elam for Jones

2) Barton for Davis

3) Bowens for Peek

4) St. Clair for Shaffer

 

And I think removing Winslow was definitely a downgrade in talent, but a classic addition-by-subtraction (Give KW2 a fresh start elsewhere, and grab a couple picks in the process).

 

The guys in the second list are fillers until we can find better replacements. The urgency to replace them goes in this order: 1) Elam 2) St. Clair 3) Barton 4) Bowens

 

But, to summarize, Mangini has brought in YOUTH that COULD develop into viable NFL players. Roth, Mack, and Coleman are already there, in my opinion. Stuckey, Massaquoi, and Jennings could prove that they belong as early as next season.

 

 

[peterbell]

Seeing as 24 of the 26 players Mangini released from last years roster no longer play in the league tells you all you need to know about last years situation. A couple of FA's, 11 picks and you have playmakers and SERIOUS depth..This is how its done..right

[Flugel]

I absolutely & totally agree! Playmakers cause disruption on the other side of the ball (can we say CRIBBS?) & I believe we will get one or more of those through free agency & the draft. Think about this...where would the following teams be without just ONE playmaker...

Colts..Manning (QB)

Cardinals..Fitzgerald (WR)

Ravens..Lewis (LB)

Vikings..Peterson (RB) or Favre (QB))

Pittsburgh..Palomalu (DB-S)

They make everone around them better. Also, with the return next year of DQ, we may see a real treat in Benard...I think that kid is the "real deal".

If we can add a real playmaker or two, next year could really show positive signs, & as Tom & others pointed out so well, there have been MANY positives this year. As the song states.."We've only just begun..".

Mike

 

Great stuff Mike!

- Tom F.

[Joker Boy]

so much good information here guys thanks for taking the time. ive been saying some of these same things all year about mangini and getting flamed by so many people at work for it. however i did get a bengals fan to bet me that if we have atleast 5 wins next year and mangini is there he will wear a browns hat all week at work. i am no fool and i dont expect or even demand this team to be superbowl bound in the next 3 years i just want want them to be a competitive team in the nfl with winning seasons. if you become a consistant winner the ring will come. thank you mangini for sticking to your vision and not selling out because some ass hole sports writer knows more about drama than football.

 

also a big thanks goes out to you guys on this topic who look at the positive of this season and not the brady quinn sucks mangini sucks drop em both then we can move on. i mean i get sick of those posts. it blows my xxxxin mind that you hear browns fans say all we ever do is start over and rebuild but those are the same fans that would fire a 1st year coach with obvious improvement of the team and cut a qb who is still maturing yeah those "hes been in the league for 3 yrs" posts are pissing me off because the man hasnt even started a full season. many things to be happy about this season and this fan apreciates fans like you. lets make a super secret decoder ring club!!! lol

[calfoxwc]

My problem with Daboll is the play calling.

 

I mean, when you DO have rookies and new players and so on,

 

WHY handicap them with "run, run, pass, punt" on sequential drives?

 

Daboll is getting away from it more and more...

 

but why that predictable crap? If you have to help your

 

rooks and younger players, etc... why not be more

 

deceitful in the -order- of plays you call?

 

Watch how many times he calls a run on first down.

 

I'd say it seems to be maybe 90 percent of the time?

 

Seems like eh... 98 percent?

 

That's how the defenses end up keying on

 

a run on first and second downs, and all the third and eights

 

the Browns offense has to endure. Then, the qb has to get the ball out

 

FAST in the face of an obvious blitz situation.

 

I dunno, it just grates me.

[SJ_Browns]

In the last few weeks, try to think of how many times you saw the offense false start or lineup incorrectly. How many holding calls or blocks in the back have you seen? Along the same lines how many times have you seen the defense jump offsides? How many cheap shots, face masks or undisciplined late hits have you seen? On STs, we're not getting penalized either. Now think about how undisciplined this team was in 2008 and there appears to be quite a bit of difference in these areas the media doesn't want our fanbase to see while they want Mangini gone as quickly as they wanted BB gone when he was here.

 

NOW, how many times have we seen our offense fumbling the ball away? I haven't seen many INTs either, which is more evidence of some decent coaching going on.

 

Last but not least, YOUNG players on this team are showing improvement or turning heads in recent weeks. Here's some examples:

1) TE Evan Moore - LOVED his game vrs San Diego and he had a nice catch vrs Pitt. I'm WAY more impressed with him than Royal.

2) LBer Marcus Benard - Wow! Plays made at or behind the line of scrimmage earns a double thumbs up!

3) WRer Chansi Stucky - seemingly getting better every week.

4) WR MoMass - the kid was even blocking well.

5) C Alex Mack - Had a very nice game against All Pro Casey Hampton.

6) LBer Kaluka Maiava - I liked the way he played against Balt & Pitt. Noticed most tackles near the line of scrimmage (+ .5 sack)

7) RB Chris Jennings - turning heads and clearly an upgrade over Jamal Lewis

8) P Reggie Hodges - he already has 12 punts inside the 20 for an avg of 40.9 yds and 3 touchbacks. Pretty impressive IMO.

 

1st year newcomers like David Bowens and Matt Roth are huge sparks for this team. David Bowens flatout plays ball where-ever we need him. He definitely understands sic em and so does Roth.

 

- Tom F.

 

Good post. I was just thinking about the Browns not being penalized much this season. I tried looking up the correct stats to see where they ranked as a team, but couldn't find it. I did find enough info to let me know that the Browns were among the least penalized teams on st, o and d (the stats were individual and not collectively as a team).

[Alendor]

daboll can't be defended, running every single first down up the middle. I'm sorry, but if you are gonna do that, throw a PA in on first down every now and then to do something with it. our team plays with one less down than other teams because of his playcalling. everyone knows we run up the middle on first down, and they usually stop it for no gain.

 

thats a problem, not to mention how many times he'll run up the middle again on 2nd and long, and force us into a 3rd and long passing situation. look at the game vs the steelers, almoast every third down we had was 10+ yards. then you try and convert that with a pass, that they know is coming. he is too predictable, and his playcalling is horrible.

[peterbell]

Good post. I was just thinking about the Browns not being penalized much this season. I tried looking up the correct stats to see where they ranked as a team, but couldn't find it. I did find enough info to let me know that the Browns were among the least penalized teams on st, o and d (the stats were individual and not collectively as a team).

 

The Browns are tied with 3 teams with 65 penaties which puts them tied 5th for least penalized teams in the NFL after 13 games

[kshutchins]

The Browns are tied with 3 teams with 65 penaties which puts them tied 5th for least penalized teams in the NFL after 13 games

 

That would be offensive penalties only. On defense, the Browns are a little further down the list.

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/sortableStats...p;dir=ascending

[BrownB499]

daboll can't be defended, running every single first down up the middle. I'm sorry, but if you are gonna do that, throw a PA in on first down every now and then to do something with it. our team plays with one less down than other teams because of his playcalling. everyone knows we run up the middle on first down, and they usually stop it for no gain.

 

thats a problem, not to mention how many times he'll run up the middle again on 2nd and long, and force us into a 3rd and long passing situation. look at the game vs the steelers, almoast every third down we had was 10+ yards. then you try and convert that with a pass, that they know is coming. he is too predictable, and his playcalling is horrible.

 

 

I've been one of posters calling for Dabolls head ,but reassessing his work this season I've seen more positives than originally meets the eye

 

Yes,running on first down has been incredibly predictable,but running JLew on first as opposed to what Jennings looked like on Thurs.(except for the 4th qtr when Jennings seemed to wear down) really opened my eyes to the fact that it wasn't so much the plays...as it was the players not executing

 

Think about how many times we ran Lewis on 3rd an short this year only to watch him run into his own player or go down on first contact ?

how about BQ or DA completely missing a wide open target on 3rd and long when the whole stadium knew we were passing, yet the receiver was wide open

 

Or how many dropped passes on a catchable ball that would have been minimum first down?(and alot of times much much more)

Has either QB been able to hit Jerrome Harrison in the flat in stride ?(like Rivers to Sprouls)

How is any of this Dabolls fault?think back how many times he's had us in the right play, only we didn't execute

Again I'm not going to shed any tears if Daboll gets shit canned at the end of the year,but the more i look at what he's done ,with what he's had to work with ...I don't think he's been the worst offensive coordinator we've seen here.

[peterbell]

This is just a guess, but Daboll is most likely trying to give Quinn managable 3rd down distances.

3rd and 3..3rd and 4..Trying to help Quinn manage the game a little better..I understand weather conditions

but Thurs Quinn was WAY WAY off..just sayin

[Frenchie]

I'm a business manager and I look at the Browns Football team from Lerner's perspective the same way as I look at any business. If I need a turnaround manager and hire someone as a change agent, I can't be trigger-happy with the guy when the stakeholders (in this case, players, media, fans) start applying pressure because the excellent results are not immediate.

 

Lerner made a commitment to Mangini. We all have to accept this and give him time to prove he is worthy. As I've said before, I am disappointed in our 2-11 season - but one season is not enough time to judge Mangini and I still like the 2009 draft choices and trades he made. Mangini has also made plenty of mistakes this year, but he seems to have the team playing some inspired, disciplined football, and has 11 draft choices and some cap space heading into 2010. I thnk he deserves our support for another two years.

 

As for Lerner, he also needs to realize that he needs to be more vocal in his support of Mangini. He should be telling us (and the media and the team) to give the guy a chance - just like we gave Davis and Crennel a chance. He also needs to score a touchdown on selecting the Czar. We need a real great football operations guy to take the reins and provide some elements that the Browns are badly missing. This could have been very helpful to Mangini this year ... but let's not revisit that, we need to go forward.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

I've been one of posters calling for Dabolls head ,but reassessing his work this season I've seen more positives than originally meets the eye

 

Yes,running on first down has been incredibly predictable,but running JLew on first as opposed to what Jennings looked like on Thurs.(except for the 4th qtr when Jennings seemed to wear down) really opened my eyes to the fact that it wasn't so much the plays...as it was the players not executing

 

Think about how many times we ran Lewis on 3rd an short this year only to watch him run into his own player or go down on first contact ?

how about BQ or DA completely missing a wide open target on 3rd and long when the whole stadium knew we were passing, yet the receiver was wide open

 

Or how many dropped passes on a catchable ball that would have been minimum first down?(and alot of times much much more)

Has either QB been able to hit Jerrome Harrison in the flat in stride ?(like Rivers to Sprouls)

How is any of this Dabolls fault?think back how many times he's had us in the right play, only we didn't execute

Again I'm not going to shed any tears if Daboll gets shit canned at the end of the year,but the more i look at what he's done ,with what he's had to work with ...I don't think he's been the worst offensive coordinator we've seen here.

 

 

I'm with you on that. I know winning changes everything, and we're all still on a little high from Thursday night, but I've been going back and watching some of the games I recorded. I've hated Daboll from the beginning, I didn't believe he would succeed. And he proved me right for the most part all season long. But, looking back, it does seem to be our execution (or lack thereof) that has been handicapping us. He's been trying to implement a pretty difficult offense, and it's taken some time for the players to learn, that much is apparent. And running a play in practice is a lot different than running a play at game-speed. Daboll has been overly conservative at times, especially during the first Baltimore game, but I realized something. I think Mangini and Co. may have scrapped the season from the get-go, and I think Lerner knew about it and actually endorsed the idea. I'm not saying they threw games or anything of the sort, I do believe they honestly tried to win each game. But, I think they knew this season would be rough, and instead used each game almost as a practice session. Looking back at each game in succession, our offense has developed a little more each game. I know that it is typical of any team's offense to progress and develop throughout the season; to not peak too early, if you will. But it seems like, early in the season, when a play wasn't working, Daboll would continue to run it until everybody performed their assignments correctly. I know this isn't the case, and that I am completely off-base, but it is an interesting thing to think about.

[peterbell]

He's been trying to implement a pretty difficult offense, and it's taken some time for the players to learn, that much is apparent. And running a play in practice is a lot different than running a play at game-speed.

 

Your right it is a complicated offense which is why Mangini preaches "smart" players along with tough and selfless. The Browns run no huddle the entire game with multiple shifts and motions within a single play..and there's no penalties for offsides, illegal formations or confusion on where and when to go. Do people have any idea how hard that is to do, never mind doing it in a no huddle scenerio? I'm not a big beleiver in play calling, its the execution of the play. You think Indy's OC.(which is Peyton by the way) makes all these great calls..I don't think so..Having # 18 throwing the rock is the reason those plays work or the threat of him throwing the rock.

[BrownB499]

He's been trying to implement a pretty difficult offense, and it's taken some time for the players to learn, that much is apparent. And running a play in practice is a lot different than running a play at game-speed.

 

Your right it is a complicated offense which is why Mangini preaches "smart" players along with tough and selfless. The Browns run no huddle the entire game with multiple shifts and motions within a single play..and there's no penalties for offsides, illegal formations or confusion on where and when to go. Do people have any idea how hard that is to do, never mind doing it in a no huddle scenerio? I'm not a big beleiver in play calling, its the execution of the play. You think Indy's OC.(which is Peyton by the way) makes all these great calls..I don't think so..Having # 18 throwing the rock is the reason those plays work or the threat of him throwing the rock.

 

 

Give Daboll

 

Manning,Addai,Clark,Wayne

 

Farve,Petersen,Rice, Harvin,Berrimen

 

Rivers,Tomlinson,Gates ,Sprouls,Jefferson

 

Then see if suddenly gets a little smarter

[Flugel]

Give Daboll

 

Manning,Addai,Clark,Wayne

 

Farve,Petersen,Rice, Harvin,Berrimen

 

Rivers,Tomlinson,Gates ,Sprouls,Jefferson

 

Then see if suddenly gets a little smarter

 

Exactly! Trying playing chess with just pawns against somebody that has all the attack pieces and then think about Daboll's challenge at hand. Staying with me, the FIRST time he faced an opponent that had the same issues in Detroit - let's take a look and see if he stunk or scored (his job was vrs the defense). Before anyone corrects me, I think supervising your offense for 37 points is a good day at the office and if we lost - you can't really blame the offense.

 

Reminders of what he CAN do when he has the SAME talent level as the opponent:

TD 08:56 Mohamed Massaquoi 59 Yd Pass From Brady Quinn (Phil Dawson Kick) Cleve 10 Det 3

TD 04:03 Chansi Stuckey 40 Yd Pass From Brady Quinn (Phil Dawson Kick) Cleve 17 Det 3

TD 02:52 Joshua Cribbs 4 Yd Pass From Brady Quinn (Phil Dawson Kick) Cleve 24 Det 3

TD 05:44 Michael Gaines 2 Yd Pass From Brady Quinn (Jamal Lewis Run For Two-Point Conversion) Cleve 37 Det 31

 

- I really only see 1 superstar scoring in that mix.

 

In conclusion, we NEVER got better when we replaced Mo Carthon with Jeff Davidson because the talent, experience and chemistry from ongoign line-up changes made the task at hand almost absurd. Last year, Chud's offense looked like those offenses (which made us quickly forget 10 wins the year before). Unfortunately, there's no magic wand for offensive coordinators that supercedes their chess pieces. EXPERIENCE & CHEMISTRY will make many of our chess pieces better (but not overnight) so I'm at least glad our OC gets that. Could that be why we're not getting overwhelmed into 1st and 15 or 1st and 20? I really believe it is. When Marty turned our team around in the 80s, his first year (or part year) we only saw Byner near the end and he looked promising. The next year we added Kevin Mack, Dan Fike and a few other key variables and all of a sudden we knew our OC's name was Lindy Infante as the transition from Danielson to Kosar took form and we went 8-8 with 2 RBs gaining over 1000 yards. Bernie's 2nd season of starting, led to 12-4 and a Conference Championship appearance at home. That's the experience and chemistry part I mentioned. Lindy went to a terrible Green Bay team and the fans there weren't nearly as impressed with him as we were.

- Tom F.

[peterbell]

Give Daboll

 

Manning,Addai,Clark,Wayne

 

Farve,Petersen,Rice, Harvin,Berrimen

 

Rivers,Tomlinson,Gates ,Sprouls,Jefferson

 

Then see if suddenly gets a little smarter

 

You damn straight..Think Mangini would be undefeated if he was the HC in Indy?