Holding Lerner Accountable

[Earl34]

His boss sent a congratulatory text message. Hall of Famer Jim Brown delivered his to Eric Mangini in person. Eagles coach Andy Reid dropped him a note, and even the guy who delivers Mangini's newspaper told the Browns coach how much he appreciated the win.

 

I posted about this on the "team building" thread and the more I thought about this today (mostly at work, no less)I felt like I didn't want to hijack someone's thread.

 

I've never had much of an opinion on Randy Lerner to separate him out from other rich, trust fund babies/owners. During the first half of the season, I was bothered by the fact that everyone was so hard on the man for running a team that ultimately is his to do with as he pleases. Now, I'm not so sure whether it's fair to give him a pass.

 

I think that seeing this team of "walking wounded" defend their home field with great hustle, grit, moxie and determination and a coaching staff that REALLY (yes, even Daboll) outschemed their counterparts...it's gotten me to thinking about the fact that he didn't visit the locker room in person.

 

I will be the first to admit that perhaps this is an overreaction but it would seem to me that we can agree on these points:

 

1) The win against the Steelers was the biggest win in quite some time

2) No one reasonably expected the Browns to beat the Steelers in this manner

3) This game (from a gameplan and execution standpoint) has given hope to the masses

4) This team needed something very positive to happen for it

 

then I think it is a fair question to ask if Lerner was present in the stadium and, if so, why did he simply text the coach? This is a team of guys who just played their butts off in horrible weather. They outhustled, outmuscled and outthought their opponent and gave the suffering fans and the besieged coaches something legitimate to hang their hats on and smile...even if just for a few days. If you're trying to build something, wouldn't you take the opportunity to reinforce something very good?

 

Wouldn't you take the opportunity to go downstairs, look Josh Cribbs in the face, shake his hand and say "Well done young man. Your city and your team are proud of you. I'm gonna take care of you."? Jerry Jones would have done that. Dan Snyder would've done that. Woody Johnson DID that last year at the Jets. There is NO SUBSTITUTE for your boss personally delivering a message of praise to you. It's not just Cribbs. It could have been Joe Thomas or Marcus Benard or Schaeffering or Evan Moore. The point is he didn't come down there himself and that's a bother to me. He's been on the record many times in support of his coach when things were bad. This was an opportunity to lift his coach's hand in the air and say "Lay off the Browns. We're making headway."

 

Last year, I watched (peripherally as many of you did) as Rod Marinelli took the podium 16 straight weeks and took the slings and arrows like a man. I can't say that his team or his coaches were any good but I was impressed with him because I knew that it must have been some kind of hell to stand up there and deliver a commentary on everything that went wrong and how you'd found new ways to lose and new depths of frustration. I have to say that I was impressed with him more. It is said that you learn more about yourself when you're losing than when everything is rosy. This year, we've watched our own coach stand up there and be ridiculed and maligned by local and national media. I believe that Lerner prefers Mangini since it was Kokinis that he parted ways with. That said, this was a golden opportunity to stand beside the guy who's taken all of the bullets for you and say "Thanks, Eric. Well done.".

 

It would have gone a long way. Perhaps I am being to nitpicky on a little issue. If someone thinks I'm wrong or out of line, please explain it to me.

 

Perhaps Lerner just doesn't know how the public relations game works. Cleveland is one of the great cities in America because like so many midwestern cities, it doesn't have the glitz of a New York, Vegas or LA. It has simply the remains of a "can do" attitude that built this country. It formed an industrial backbone that propelled a nation forward. All I wanted was for him to take an elevator down to the locker room and warm the spirits of his players and his coaches. Was that too much to ask?

[JoeSixPat]

I posted about this on the "team building" thread and the more I thought about this today (mostly at work, no less)I felt like I didn't want to hijack someone's thread.

 

I've never had much of an opinion on Randy Lerner to separate him out from other rich, trust fund babies/owners. During the first half of the season, I was bothered by the fact that everyone was so hard on the man for running a team that ultimately is his to do with as he pleases. Now, I'm not so sure whether it's fair to give him a pass.

 

I think that seeing this team of "walking wounded" defend their home field with great hustle, grit, moxie and determination and a coaching staff that REALLY (yes, even Daboll) outschemed their counterparts...it's gotten me to thinking about the fact that he didn't visit the locker room in person.

 

I will be the first to admit that perhaps this is an overreaction but it would seem to me that we can agree on these points:

 

1) The win against the Steelers was the biggest win in quite some time

2) No one reasonably expected the Browns to beat the Steelers in this manner

3) This game (from a gameplan and execution standpoint) has given hope to the masses

4) This team needed something very positive to happen for it

 

then I think it is a fair question to ask if Lerner was present in the stadium and, if so, why did he simply text the coach? This is a team of guys who just played their butts off in horrible weather. They outhustled, outmuscled and outthought their opponent and gave the suffering fans and the besieged coaches something legitimate to hang their hats on and smile...even if just for a few days. If you're trying to build something, wouldn't you take the opportunity to reinforce something very good?

 

Wouldn't you take the opportunity to go downstairs, look Josh Cribbs in the face, shake his hand and say "Well done young man. Your city and your team are proud of you. I'm gonna take care of you."? Jerry Jones would have done that. Dan Snyder would've done that. Woody Johnson DID that last year at the Jets. There is NO SUBSTITUTE for your boss personally delivering a message of praise to you. It's not just Cribbs. It could have been Joe Thomas or Marcus Benard or Schaeffering or Evan Moore. The point is he didn't come down there himself and that's a bother to me. He's been on the record many times in support of his coach when things were bad. This was an opportunity to lift his coach's hand in the air and say "Lay off the Browns. We're making headway."

 

Last year, I watched (peripherally as many of you did) as Rod Marinelli took the podium 16 straight weeks and took the slings and arrows like a man. I can't say that his team or his coaches were any good but I was impressed with him because I knew that it must have been some kind of hell to stand up there and deliver a commentary on everything that went wrong and how you'd found new ways to lose and new depths of frustration. I have to say that I was impressed with him more. It is said that you learn more about yourself when you're losing than when everything is rosy. This year, we've watched our own coach stand up there and be ridiculed and maligned by local and national media. I believe that Lerner prefers Mangini since it was Kokinis that he parted ways with. That said, this was a golden opportunity to stand beside the guy who's taken all of the bullets for you and say "Thanks, Eric. Well done.".

 

It would have gone a long way. Perhaps I am being to nitpicky on a little issue. If someone thinks I'm wrong or out of line, please explain it to me.

 

Perhaps Lerner just doesn't know how the public relations game works. Cleveland is one of the great cities in America because like so many midwestern cities, it doesn't have the glitz of a New York, Vegas or LA. It has simply the remains of a "can do" attitude that built this country. It formed an industrial backbone that propelled a nation forward. All I wanted was for him to take an elevator down to the locker room and warm the spirits of his players and his coaches. Was that too much to ask?

 

 

My guess is that - in one of the few wise moves that Lerner has made - he wants to distance himself from being perceived as an owner who has committed to Mangini at a time when GM/Czar candidates would stay far away from a team if it is believed or perceived that the owner won't allow them to be full fledged GMs with the ability to pick the coach they deem most fit to help the team.

 

That's the perception to a large degree - that Lerner has so much ego riding on whether his hand picked GM/Coach Mangini (as Kokinis clearly never had full authority, with Lerner letting his head coach choose and apparently fire the GM) can be a success in this league.

 

No GM worth having is going to come into a situation where they have less power than the coach (there are some coaches that DO have authority over a GM, but they've usualy earned that privelege and have a few SB rings on their fingers).

 

So Lerner's at odds with his ego - he doesn't want to admit he was wrong if Mangini is let go, but he knows he needs to hire the best GM - and not one who will keep Mangini just because it would embarrass the owner.

 

Perception here is key to potential GMs - even if they wanted to keep Mangini they don't want to be perceived as submissive to the Coach by being percevied to giving in to the owners demand. Hence - keeping one's distance from Mangini even after a very rare win is a smart thing.

[Kosar_For_President]

Yea it's like holding Bill Gates accountable for Vista.

[calfoxwc]

Perhaps he couldn't be there if he wasn't there. Maybe he had family obligations.

 

Doesn't matter to me. I'm just ready for the Browns to get all the pieces in place to

 

start winning on a regular basis.

[ballpeen]

I posted about this on the "team building" thread and the more I thought about this today (mostly at work, no less)I felt like I didn't want to hijack someone's thread.

 

I've never had much of an opinion on Randy Lerner to separate him out from other rich, trust fund babies/owners.

 

 

I stopped reading there.

 

He didn't choose his parents, but if he did, the rest of us made poor choices.

 

 

Let's see....I can be born with $ billions in the future or I can be born with a metal lathe in the future.

 

 

Glamorize the lathe all you want, but everybody else chooses the $ billions.

 

 

Damn near every metal lathe operator wishes he wasn't stuck there.

 

Have you ever met one who didn't look 20 years older than he was and was happy in the job??

 

 

[Earl34]

I stopped reading there.

 

He didn't choose his parents, but if he did, the rest of us made poor choices.

 

 

Let's see....I can be born with $ billions in the future or I can be born with a metal lathe in the future.

 

 

Glamorize the lathe all you want, but everybody else chooses the $ billions.

 

 

Damn near every metal lathe operator wishes he wasn't stuck there.

 

Have you ever met one who didn't look 20 years older than he was and was happy in the job??

 

Ballpeen, I didn't write that to analyze anyone's lot in life. It's a fact that the man was born into money. I wasn't making a value judgment on anyone who isn't. I simply said that I never really spent much time thinking about him or what he does with his money. As a matter of fact, I thought that it's his team and ultimately he's more likely to do with it as he wishes rather than what any of us might think. A poor description on my part. Sorry.

[peterbell]

Not going down to back slap your players (and coach Mangini and his staff) after such a great,hard fought, emotional victory that mean't the world to Cleveland and its devoted fans..seems a bit strange to me

[vdogrowz]

Not going down to back slap your players (and coach Mangini and his staff) after such a great,hard fought, emotional victory that mean't the world to Cleveland and its devoted fans..seems a bit strange to me

 

We have an incredible puss as an owner. Likely the biggest puss owner in the entire NFL. If he would have gone down to the locker room, a reporter might have grabbed him and asked him a question and he would have to respond instead of e mailing. Please tell me another owner in the history of the NFL that only gave interviews by e mail. Georgia Frontiere would have taken our puss send me an e mail owner in a steelcage match in 30 seconds or less.

[dj_illness]

even if you're playing the PR game and trying to safely distance yourself from Mangini, it's not hard to man up and say, "we had a good win tonight. i wanted to congratulate the players."

[Gips]

Randolph doesnt seem to understand why he cant buy a winning football team..part of having a winning team and top organization means the owner needs to involve himself with the players ,coaches ,fans , games and yes occasionally even the media ,im not saying he should or needs to over involve himself like modell did ,but a good owner will have a general idea of what keeps the fans/players/media/coaches/management happy and will infuse that part of himself into the organization...

 

Randy lacks all these capabilities and tries to hire people on an advisers whim to "do what they want to do to win" instead of having the whole plan laid out for how he wants the organization to be run from the top down ,of course the owner has to understand that football business is unique and its customer base is totally unique compared to most any other kind of business...and understanding that is where randolph seems to be the big part of this clubs problems..a great owner can lose seasons and still be loved and supported ,a lesser owner can have winning seasons and still not be liked much..

 

The best owners infuse themselves to their fanbase and a certain (regional) set of organizational principles that offer well balanced results to everyone involved...living in and loving the city of the team you own is a big plus...

[peterbell]

He brought in a coach who has a definite plan, he needs to be supported and given time to implement said plan. whether you support or not Mangini's plan is not a "quick fix" but a long term solution..that takes patience from everyone..owner to sponsors to media to fans..

[ClevelandFanForLife]

of course lerner is held accountable for this. when the steelers win superbowl they immediately point the finger at the rooney family and talk about what a great owner dan is. the same should be said about a team that loses every year as well. it's starts from the top down and lerner is at the very top. these years of lack luster playing and the dismay of fans is on him.

[NW Ohio Brownie]

We have an incredible puss as an owner. Likely the biggest puss owner in the entire NFL. If he would have gone down to the locker room, a reporter might have grabbed him and asked him a question and he would have to respond instead of e mailing. Please tell me another owner in the history of the NFL that only gave interviews by e mail. Georgia Frontiere would have taken our puss send me an e mail owner in a steelcage match in 30 seconds or less.

 

 

It's true that Lerner disdains visibility and voice, but then again we don't have Modell anymore. He of the NBC-cameras-will-pan-into-my-loge-and-catch-me-smiling-whenever-my-team-does-something-well-as-if-I'm-the-one-responsible.

 

I mean what a downer on those old Browns clips of the 80s we have linked on this board. Couldn't we just edit that fu*khead out of there? Talk about somebody pissing in your memory lane punch. I love watching Bernie sling it for a touchdown, smiling to myself for about two seconds, but then the view immediately cuts to that turd clapping like a circus freak in his emperoresque throne in the Stadium. Eff you, Art. Eff you forever.

[ballpeen]

Ballpeen, I didn't write that to analyze anyone's lot in life. It's a fact that the man was born into money. I wasn't making a value judgment on anyone who isn't. I simply said that I never really spent much time thinking about him or what he does with his money. As a matter of fact, I thought that it's his team and ultimately he's more likely to do with it as he wishes rather than what any of us might think. A poor description on my part. Sorry.

 

That's cool man....I get a little carried away sometimes.

 

As of late it seems that people with money are the bad guys.

 

I am by no means a wealthy man, but I do have a few bucks so i find it irritating when the tone turns to people with money, and sometimes i over react.

 

 

Sorry.

 

[Earl34]

That's cool man....I get a little carried away sometimes.

 

As of late it seems that people with money are the bad guys.

 

I am by no means a wealthy man, but I do have a few bucks so i find it irritating when the tone turns to people with money, and sometimes i over react.

 

 

Sorry.

 

No problem dude. Having some money in the bank is a good thing and most people with coin actually earned it. I know I've worked my ass off for what I do have. Happy Holidays.

 

[Flugel]

I posted about this on the "team building" thread and the more I thought about this today (mostly at work, no less)I felt like I didn't want to hijack someone's thread.

 

I've never had much of an opinion on Randy Lerner to separate him out from other rich, trust fund babies/owners. During the first half of the season, I was bothered by the fact that everyone was so hard on the man for running a team that ultimately is his to do with as he pleases. Now, I'm not so sure whether it's fair to give him a pass.

 

I think that seeing this team of "walking wounded" defend their home field with great hustle, grit, moxie and determination and a coaching staff that REALLY (yes, even Daboll) outschemed their counterparts...it's gotten me to thinking about the fact that he didn't visit the locker room in person.

 

I will be the first to admit that perhaps this is an overreaction but it would seem to me that we can agree on these points:

 

1) The win against the Steelers was the biggest win in quite some time

2) No one reasonably expected the Browns to beat the Steelers in this manner

3) This game (from a gameplan and execution standpoint) has given hope to the masses

4) This team needed something very positive to happen for it

 

then I think it is a fair question to ask if Lerner was present in the stadium and, if so, why did he simply text the coach? This is a team of guys who just played their butts off in horrible weather. They outhustled, outmuscled and outthought their opponent and gave the suffering fans and the besieged coaches something legitimate to hang their hats on and smile...even if just for a few days. If you're trying to build something, wouldn't you take the opportunity to reinforce something very good?

 

Wouldn't you take the opportunity to go downstairs, look Josh Cribbs in the face, shake his hand and say "Well done young man. Your city and your team are proud of you. I'm gonna take care of you."? Jerry Jones would have done that. Dan Snyder would've done that. Woody Johnson DID that last year at the Jets. There is NO SUBSTITUTE for your boss personally delivering a message of praise to you. It's not just Cribbs. It could have been Joe Thomas or Marcus Benard or Schaeffering or Evan Moore. The point is he didn't come down there himself and that's a bother to me. He's been on the record many times in support of his coach when things were bad. This was an opportunity to lift his coach's hand in the air and say "Lay off the Browns. We're making headway."

 

Last year, I watched (peripherally as many of you did) as Rod Marinelli took the podium 16 straight weeks and took the slings and arrows like a man. I can't say that his team or his coaches were any good but I was impressed with him because I knew that it must have been some kind of hell to stand up there and deliver a commentary on everything that went wrong and how you'd found new ways to lose and new depths of frustration. I have to say that I was impressed with him more. It is said that you learn more about yourself when you're losing than when everything is rosy. This year, we've watched our own coach stand up there and be ridiculed and maligned by local and national media. I believe that Lerner prefers Mangini since it was Kokinis that he parted ways with. That said, this was a golden opportunity to stand beside the guy who's taken all of the bullets for you and say "Thanks, Eric. Well done.".

 

It would have gone a long way. Perhaps I am being to nitpicky on a little issue. If someone thinks I'm wrong or out of line, please explain it to me.

 

Perhaps Lerner just doesn't know how the public relations game works. Cleveland is one of the great cities in America because like so many midwestern cities, it doesn't have the glitz of a New York, Vegas or LA. It has simply the remains of a "can do" attitude that built this country. It formed an industrial backbone that propelled a nation forward. All I wanted was for him to take an elevator down to the locker room and warm the spirits of his players and his coaches. Was that too much to ask?

 

 

Great stuff Earl! Before I get started - just understand it still takes me 2 hours to understand and watch 60 Minutes.

 

My feeling which might seem like it's from Saturn is that we've got a guy with an inheritance and we're witnessing the real life version of "Brewster's Millions." Loyal fan base great sports town and historical franchise. Anyone that's ever been in a school or at the office on a day of a substitute teacher or the boss is out, knows what goes on when there's less accountability to be had.

 

Randy lerner confessed he didn't know what we have in either QB. Since the success of today's game is predicated on the passign game - that's like telling loyal customers I don't know about my most important product. Mangini was willing to be the Manager of that product and find out more about Quinn. Seems like the media has wanted him fired since the day he signed his contract and many believe every negative word written.

 

It seems like we're witnessing alot of gimmicks to excuse his absence from the front office and neglect that SERIOUS franchises can't have. Then he goes knee jerk with QUICK hire to divert.

 

It's not that I dislike Holmgren per say but he's the ONLY interview and there's no set criteria. He was also fired when it looked like he was ONLY comfortable with being a Head Coach. Maybe working exclusively as a GM without the time consuming HC gig will make him better at the GM thing this time. I laid out my rationale for Parcells in the Fan Focus Group thread so I don't want to repeat it but I sure hope people read it. It doesn't MATTER if we have to wait until January to add Bill because he's prolly more in tune with who will be available in free agency and whom to look for in the draft as we speak. Holmgren has to return to it all. Big difference.

 

I think we'd all like a NEW owner but since it's isn't possible - we subconsciously place most of the blame on the next guy in charge. Since there's no GM today people go right to the Maginious one and straight to the throat of Daboll. There's a little momentum building and I'm finally seeing some young guys I'm happy about. Sure hope the Lerner family doesn't crumble it again. But we're starting a sequel to Bill and Ted's Adventures where they can chair Randy's focus group. Stay tuned because they prolly want more posters and better hot mustard in the stadium.

 

Randy has a chance to swing at his favorite pitch so it sure would be wonderful if he knew what that pitch was. It would be even better if he had the vision to SEE it.

- Tom F.

[Earl34]

Great stuff Earl! Before I get started - just understand it still takes me 2 hours to understand and watch 60 Minutes.

 

My feeling which might seem like it's from Saturn is that we've got a guy with an inheritance and we're witnessing the real life version of "Brewster's Millions." Loyal fan base great sports town and historical franchise. Anyone that's ever been in a school or at the office on a day of a substitute teacher or the boss is out, knows what goes on when there's less accountability to be had.

 

Randy lerner confessed he didn't know what we have in either QB. Since the success of today's game is predicated on the passign game - that's like telling loyal customers I don't know about my most important product. Mangini was willing to be the Manager of that product and find out more about Quinn. Seems like the media has wanted him fired since the day he signed his contract and many believe every negative word written.

 

It seems like we're witnessing alot of gimmicks to excuse his absence from the front office and neglect that SERIOUS franchises can't have. Then he goes knee jerk with QUICK hire to divert.

 

It's not that I dislike Holmgren per say but he's the ONLY interview and there's no set criteria. He was also fired when it looked like he was ONLY comfortable with being a Head Coach. Maybe working exclusively as a GM without the time consuming HC gig will make him better at the GM thing this time. I laid out my rationale for Parcells in the Fan Focus Group thread so I don't want to repeat it but I sure hope people read it. It doesn't MATTER if we have to wait until January to add Bill because he's prolly more in tune with who will be available in free agency and whom to look for in the draft as we speak. Holmgren has to return to it all. Big difference.

 

I think we'd all like a NEW owner but since it's isn't possible - we subconsciously place most of the blame on the next guy in charge. Since there's no GM today people go right to the Maginious one and straight to the throat of Daboll. There's a little momentum building and I'm finally seeing some young guys I'm happy about. Sure hope the Lerner family doesn't crumble it again. But we're starting a sequel to Bill and Ted's Adventures where they can chair Randy's focus group. Stay tuned because they prolly want more posters and better hot mustard in the stadium.

 

Randy has a chance to swing at his favorite pitch so it sure would be wonderful if he knew what that pitch was. It would be even better if he had the vision to SEE it.

- Tom F.

 

Thanks Tom. I think that fans can deal with owners who are meddlesome and there are some who are more removed but you can't be totally absent. In the absence of a GM and/or a communicating owner, the head coach is left to be the voice of the franchise. I guess this would mean that Eric Mangini needs a press secretary if there is no administrator in the front office who can present the vision.

 

I would hate to think that the GM might come in and blow up something that looks like it's starting to gain positive direction but, alas, we have little control over that. When I wrote this, I was very concerned that the owner didn't take the golden opportunity to pump up his team. Forget the coach. That would have been good too but, at a minimum, show the players some respect. It's a brutal sport that can take everything from them. An owner who'd crown an evening with a "thank you" would have been nice.

 

We can shake our heads in disgust at the Jerry Joneses and the Al Davises but these guys LOVE their team and their sport. Randy loves football but we're never quite sure which one.