dawgpound3 Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 The reason is simple. Philosophy. Eric Mangini has one strength and that is his incredible devotion to toughness and character. That's why we after 10 years are finally starting to form an identity. This team is different, we cut anybody who was not with the program regardless of talent and will continue to do so. If we hire Holmgren and he drafts guys or hires a GM who is not in perfect sync with Mangini then we basically turn him into another Romeo. We take his greatest strength away from him and make him a puppet coach. He is a coach/sociologist and that is his MO. He is not otherwise a great leader ect ect. He WILL pass on players who do not fit perfectly in the locker room hence Alex Mack he WILL sit/trade/cut guys who do not have a great week of practice regardless of talent levels ect ect ect. I could not make this point strong enough. ALL coaches talk about character, only Mangini and Bellichek actually abide by it. That's why the GM and drafting situation are so important. Any GM would take the best talent available and that sexy WR who has character issues would be on this team absolutely destroying the identity we are building as the toughest and most united in the league. Look, Mike Holmgren is one heck of a coach. His resume speaks for itself. But I am finally excited about the identity we are building and hiring a guy with a totally different philosophy before we give this one a chance is a mistake unless we go ahead and start from scratch ... again. I for one am not excited about this. If we do it, I will come around but only if Mangini goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gips Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Let me know when the mangini guys actually get tough and consistent and we have an identity other than "nfl laughing stock" until then i would rather have a guy like holmgren upstairs who has been there ,leading the browns over a 3 year coach that has a big sales pitch for his program but has failed to produce anything but angry fans and hasnt been anywhere or proven anything except that he usually gets outhustled and outsmarted on the field by his peers.. But fear not holmy isnt coming but ruskell is and thats a guy mangini will have his way with and the "laughing stock" identity will continue and compound for a while... As far as starting from scratch ,we are near rock bottom now ,theres no where to go but up regardless of who is running the show and almost all coaches teach tuffness and discipline ,their job sort of demands that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jantz2086 Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 It can't take a year. I lurk on here a lot - but am excited about becoming active in a community that seems to know these players more than Mangini knows these players. If you for once second even think that this team was a decent team, when Mangini came in - then you are kidding yourself. We are 2-11, yes - this is true - but some of the things I have seen out of this coaching staff this year and this team in general have been more exciting and more self-fufilling than watching this team the majority of this decade. Bill Belichick came onto a horrible NE team in 2000, and went 5-11 (something we can still manage, btw). He dismantled that team - he cut players midseason, and at one point was playing with a 40 man roster while others had 53. Why? Because the people had chips on their shoulders from Parcells the season before. But Bill wanted that to be his team, and he wanted things ran his way. He didn't care if you were Drew Bledsoe, or Terry Glenn - if you didn't show up in shape, on time, and ready to play as a team - you're not a part of the team. What did the Patriots do in 2001? Win the Super Bowl. This team has talent, it's been shown. The regime on this team beforehand was a friendly, lets sign names and see if they can mesh enviornment, and it didn't work. It wasn't a team, it wasn't an image - it was a fix it right now situation. Butch Davis couldn't coach NFL football, I just told you what happened with RC - but now, we actually have a football genious of a coach, a man that actually WANTS to be in this city and WANTS to turn this football program around - and we sit and act like we know exactly what is going on. Everybody wants to be a GM, but nobody makes it happen. Hire Holmgren. Why? Because he can scout, he can guide - but don't take away coaching and team priorities away from Eric Mangini. You can't hire a coach, put him through what he's gone through - and then take him away because of a season where he was developing HIS team. ESPN has made everyone believe that this team doesn't trust in Mangini - and that is far from the truth. It takes more than a year, especially on a team of pre-madonna's that we had. Things are turning around people, it's obvious and it's showing. Best case scenario Football Operations - Mike Holmgren GM - Bernie Kosar (help from Mike, input from Mangini) HC - Eric Mangini DC - Ryan OC - Weis Don't take this team away from Mangini. We will honestly regret it down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpolen4 Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Best case scenario Football Operations - Mike Holmgren GM - Bernie Kosar (help from Mike, input from Mangini) HC - Eric Mangini DC - Ryan OC - Weis Don't take this team away from Mangini. We will honestly regret it down the road. I agree don't take this team away from him but im not too sure on Kosar, thats a bit too risky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel88 Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 I agree don't take this team away from him but im not too sure on Kosar, thats a bit too risky Kosar is a very very intelligent person, don't take anything away from him because he sounds like a drunk. Try taking as many concussions as he had over the years and not sound like he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alendor Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 kosar knows nothing about running an nfl team. making him GM would be stupid. he couldn't even stay outta bankruptcy, so, its not like he can handle his own expenses, let alone an nfl team's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel88 Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 kosar knows nothing about running an nfl team. making him GM would be stupid. he couldn't even stay outta bankruptcy, so, its not like he can handle his own expenses, let alone an nfl team's. A GM doesn't handle a teams expenses, he handles the talent pool of the team, so kosars bankruptcy problem(which divorce will do to just about anybody) has nothing to do with how he would be as a gm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Eater Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 kosar knows nothing about running an nfl team. making him GM would be stupid. he couldn't even stay outta bankruptcy, so, its not like he can handle his own expenses, let alone an nfl team's. Yikes! those two are completely unrelated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alendor Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 either way, both take management skills, of which kosar has never shown to have any of. yes his football mind is great, and he knows a shit load, but i don't see him being able to manage a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 A GM doesn't handle a teams expenses, he handles the talent pool of the team, so kosars bankruptcy problem (which divorce will do to just about anybody) has nothing to do with how he would be as a gm. Add in the Florida real estate market tanked (ask Zombo) as an added bonus to Kosar's financial woes. You don't graduate from college in three years with a double major if you're a dumbass. Bern certainly knows enough about football and management to have some position in the Front office- and I'd leave that up to Lerner and Holmgren to decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Let me know when the mangini guys actually get tough and consistent and we have an identity other than "nfl laughing stock" until then i would rather have a guy like holmgren upstairs who has been there ,leading the browns over a 3 year coach that has a big sales pitch for his program but has failed to produce anything but angry fans and hasnt been anywhere or proven anything except that he usually gets outhustled and outsmarted on the field by his peers.. But fear not holmy isnt coming but ruskell is and thats a guy mangini will have his way with and the "laughing stock" identity will continue and compound for a while... As far as starting from scratch ,we are near rock bottom now ,theres no where to go but up regardless of who is running the show and almost all coaches teach tuffness and discipline ,their job sort of demands that... Worth noting: Mangini won 10 games in his 1st year in NY when he didn't inherit 10 years of CRAPPY drafts and FA disasters. 2 years later he won 9 games so the only time he struggled was when his starting QB was injured and playing injured. More specifically, the guy didn't wake up with a hollow dome because he moved to Cleveland folks. That said, the Plain Dealer seems to have an MRI with no brain in the Mangini cranium they want the residents to see daily. Sounds like an on-going HIPPA violation not worth reading. If they win more than 9 games in NY this year now that they've allegedly corrected their biggest nightmare at Head Coach - I'm all ears to hear about how much more intelligent they did it all. And I'm sure the Plain Dealer is just praying for them to better that record so they can tell us what a real coach can do 1 more FREAKIN time and i don't feel like saying FREAKIN. Meanwhile, it feels like I've read quite a few "fire the coach" and "fire the OC" replies over the last 10 years and now this the 11 season of more fire the coach for the next Randy Lerner decision. It definitely took a step backward when one completely understands the fallout from only having 5 draft picks in 2008 minus a day 1. Then we had to overcome heading into the 2009 draft with only 4 draft picks while the 2 teams in first and second place in our division (Conf Champ Reps) had double digit volumes on draft day. Aside from that, Winslow's reactions to Phil Savage and our front office PRIOR to Mangini had nothing to do with the media's favorite scapegoat. His mind was already made up about Cleveland and wanting out before we hired our next Head Coach. You can argue that if you feel the need but it'll be nothing but creative spin. Last but not least, I SEE toughness in Maiava, Bowens, Benard, Mack, Moore, Jennings, Trusnick, and Roth which sells me on some pretty freakin good damage control. Not only that, but Wimbley is playing his best football since his rookie year. Corey Williams FINALLY looks decent and we're not seeing performance dropoffs inspite of injuries to Shaun Rogers, D'Qwell Jackson, Eric Barton, Kenyon Coleman, CJ Mosely, Jamal Lewis, Steve Heiden, Dave Zastudil, etc. I didn't see us beat the Steelers even ONCE in the Savage era when we were alot less tough at full strength. People forget we've also put an inexperienced startign QB in there with inexperienced receivers and roster turnover gallore. It's hard to get everyone on the same page with the continuous influx of roster changes. Seriously, that's not an easy way for an OC to play chess on Sundays if we're beign honest with what we have had to witness in the Savage aftermath. Here's the replacements we've had in paradise on offense: 1) Mack 2) Womack 3) Moore (following the failed experiment with Roberta Royal) 4) Quinn 5) St Clair 6) Jennings 7) MoMass 8) Stuckey Should it have been as easy as a snap of the finger? I have to say no. Folks, it's never been as easy as "fire the coach." And YES it really matters if you have young players with a DESIRE to prove themselves vrs a Prima Donna like Jamal crying in the media that the millionaire work day exceeded 2 hours on occasion. You can only remove so much Savage cholesterol from the roster in 1 season. The trend I was looking for was BETTER football, meanign competitive, down the stretch and I think I'm seeing it. There's going to be some mistakes along the way folks regardless of who inherited the Savage jam. We need a guy with a strong backbone, work ethic and intellect. He doesn't waiver on criteria for what he's seen work in better organizations and I think it'll work to our benefit if people would just backoff and clam down enough to understand what was inherited here. The alternative to building on what seems to be getting established is a knee jerk for 1 more bad decision. Improvement is improvement and competing is competing. There's a difference between watching games we have a chance to win late in the 4th quarter and asking yourself why your still watching us lose another blowout. We add a couple more solid players to the mix and keep 1 or 2 more key players healthy next year with a BIGGER draft volume and tons of cap space and I like our chances for improvement. - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopaji Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 It can't take a year. I lurk on here a lot - but am excited about becoming active in a community that seems to know these players more than Mangini knows these players. If you for once second even think that this team was a decent team, when Mangini came in - then you are kidding yourself. We are 2-11, yes - this is true - but some of the things I have seen out of this coaching staff this year and this team in general have been more exciting and more self-fufilling than watching this team the majority of this decade. Bill Belichick came onto a horrible NE team in 2000, and went 5-11 (something we can still manage, btw). He dismantled that team - he cut players midseason, and at one point was playing with a 40 man roster while others had 53. Why? Because the people had chips on their shoulders from Parcells the season before. But Bill wanted that to be his team, and he wanted things ran his way. He didn't care if you were Drew Bledsoe, or Terry Glenn - if you didn't show up in shape, on time, and ready to play as a team - you're not a part of the team. What did the Patriots do in 2001? Win the Super Bowl. This team has talent, it's been shown. The regime on this team beforehand was a friendly, lets sign names and see if they can mesh enviornment, and it didn't work. It wasn't a team, it wasn't an image - it was a fix it right now situation. Butch Davis couldn't coach NFL football, I just told you what happened with RC - but now, we actually have a football genious of a coach, a man that actually WANTS to be in this city and WANTS to turn this football program around - and we sit and act like we know exactly what is going on. Everybody wants to be a GM, but nobody makes it happen. Hire Holmgren. Why? Because he can scout, he can guide - but don't take away coaching and team priorities away from Eric Mangini. You can't hire a coach, put him through what he's gone through - and then take him away because of a season where he was developing HIS team. ESPN has made everyone believe that this team doesn't trust in Mangini - and that is far from the truth. It takes more than a year, especially on a team of pre-madonna's that we had. Things are turning around people, it's obvious and it's showing. Best case scenario Football Operations - Mike Holmgren GM - Bernie Kosar (help from Mike, input from Mangini) HC - Eric Mangini DC - Ryan OC - Weis Don't take this team away from Mangini. We will honestly regret it down the road. You and dawgpound3 just had the posts of the month in here. Great input guys! I am fine with Holmgren coming as I don't believe he'll accept the job nor will Lerner offer him the job unless Mangini is okay with it. Lerner is giving this franchise to Mangini to fix, as he should. Because of that, Holmgren and Mangini will have to be willing to work together smoothly. Both guys are too intelligent not to know how to accomplish this. And, if that can be done, we are going to have one hell of an orginization at work for this city. And it makes me very, very, hopeful for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_illness Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 i nominate Tom for post of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSixPat Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Nicely done! Mangenious is a perfect nickname for Mangini! A genius who isn't smart enough to spell genius! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_illness Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 that really does fit, if you think about it. Deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Perhaps the best reason not to hire Holmgren is he didn't exactly ace his last GM gig. He was asked to step down and just concentrate on coaching the Jimmies and the Joes with Xs and Os. MAYBE he'd do better if he didn't have to split his GM duties with coaching this time around; but we realy don't know this. Some people are ready to go out and buy Dom Perignon over the guy. If we want a guy that knows how to turn franchises around - Ive only got eyes for Bill Parcells. How many overpaid Divas wearing Dolphins' uniforms were calling the shots last year or this year? You get Parcells here and the days of overpaid FAs holding this franchise hostage are in the rear view mirror for good. - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.