Rock n roll HOF

[Kosar_For_President]

What is Rock and Roll then?

Only Bill Haley?

Only Chuck Berry?

Annette Funicello?

Bobby Sherman?

 

I don't think you can define most bands out.

I'd say it's basically music young people like.

There may be an element of rebellion.

But rebellion against the foilkies led to beach pop that led to the hippies led to disco led to grunge.

 

List me five you consider seminal Rock and Roll.

WSS

 

Disco to Grunge? You left out 20 years of shitty hair bands, cheesy key-tars and piano ties Steve.

 

Not sure what you mean seminal, sorry out of work, brain not functioning correctly.

 

[The Gipper]

Well, metal/hard rock is a pretty big genre and these two are a couple of the main originators besides Sabbath. They will definitely be in eventually.

 

Also, they have the numbers to back it up as far as record sales, huge tours etc.

 

I prefer to call it the Eclectic Conglomerate of Cultural Music Hall of Fame. Some of this stuff is not even close to rock and roll.

 

Well, Metal also has Metallica in there, plus I don't know if you consider Van Halen "metal". I always have sorta. And don't forget Hendrix and Led Zeppelin. Lots of people think of them as "metal".

I would say that "Progressive" Rock is as big a genre, and far less represented. Only Pink Floyd and now Genesis are now is as far as I know. No Jethro Tull, Procul Harum, Yes, King Crimson, Roxy Music, etc. are in.

 

[The Gipper]

Until Free or Bad Company is inducted, getting Paul Rodgers in....the voice of RR is going to be excluded.

 

Paul Rodgers is the best rock singer ever.

 

I don't know about the best ever, but he is a damn good one for sure.

[The Gipper]

It's not the Rock N' Roll hall of fame anymore. I am embarrassed of it. F*cking ABBA. Whatever.

 

It is sorta head scratching. ABBA in, but no Kiss or Alice Cooper?

 

Dancing Queen in? Rock n' Roll All Night out?

Take a Chance on me in? But I'm Eighteen, and School's Out out?

[The Gipper]

Rock encompasses a wide range of music.

 

The Bee Gees as an example wouldn't be what I call a rock band, but they are in and I don't think many would argue with their inclusion even if they didn't like the Bee Gees.

 

While ABBA is clearly at the opposite end of the Rock spectrum from say, Nine Inch Nails, their music was widely popular and I don't have any beef with their inclusion even though I never bought any of their records and "Dancing Queen" is about the only song I can remember by title.

 

 

Remember, rock covers a wide range. If you are stuck on the opposite end of that range, I do understand why one would question the inclusion.

 

I am sure people who dig the Carpenters don't have much use for Meticallica. It doesn't make them correct either.

 

Sure, you make a point, but what about these guys as well:

 

 

 

[The Gipper]

Funny...don't you remember ABBA's Fernando? Weird Al Yankovic could do an "Albert Belle" version.....I was running down to 2nd base, I smashed your face, Fernando (Vina).....

 

Also, I have both The Carpenters & Metallica on my MP3 player, FYI. You are profiling me, lol.

 

I take on the RRHOF is simply it is waaaaay too subjective, and cannot possibly please anybody. I have never visited the place, because my favorite, Black Sabbath, was snubbed for far too long. If it was up to me, the first class of inductees would have been the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, The Who, Elvis, CSNY, & Pink Floyd. I never attended any party or event where people say "can you put on some Joni Mitchell or Billy Joel?"

 

We all have different tastes in music, so having a RRHOF doesn't make sense.

 

Uh, none of those guys were eligible in the "first class" because you had to have had a record out 25 years before you were eligible, and it had not been 25 years yet for those guys. But that first class did have Elvis, Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, James Brown, Ray Charles, Little Richard, Sam Cooke, the Everly Brothers and a few others. You got a problem with that group? The others got in pretty much when they were eligible, except perhaps for BS.

 

[The Gipper]

I agree Steve but it's not Rock in my opinion. I think why many people are upset on letting Abba, Madonna and RUN DMC (f*ck that, that is 100% wrong) in the Hall because for the first 15 years or so, they inductees were based on soul or rock. They defined rock and the Hall by the bands they inducted in the first 20 years or so. THEY DID IT. Then they start running out of bands who sold 50 million records and need to save face. It's phony. Just wait, in 10 years you will see Back Street Boys and Celine Dion get in, just watch. Which are NO different then bullshit Madonna puts out. All sold 30 million of one album. They got money and need more publicity, put them into the Rock Hall. You think Abba just sold another million records, upon getting inducted, YES! What a sham.

 

I think of anyone Steve you would respect this view point.

 

Well, Kosar, this is where you are getting it wrong. It is NOT the Rock Hall of Fame, it is the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame....and to a lot of people there is a difference. "Rock" to me infers a "heavier" type of music, at least in the way a lot of people use the term, where "Rock n Roll" is a far more inclusive type of music which encompasses even pop music pretty much. I mean, Pat Boone and Ricky Nelson styled themselve Rock n Rollers, but probably would not be thought of as Rock performers. Thus "Rock" may not be a wide enough genre to include ABBA and Madonna, but "Rock N' Roll" is.

 

And I just don't get this antipathy toward Madonna.In fact, I think you are dead wrong in your classification of her. She, in essence was the prototypical Rock n Roll artist in the same vein Elvis was. First off, she is an outstanding vocalist and song writer, she pushed the social/sexual envelope to the point of rebellion, just as all the original rock n rollers did in their day, and she is an incredible performer.

I dunno, does she somehow threaten your masculinity? If so, I think that is exactly what she was going for.

[Bob806]

Uh, none of those guys were eligible in the "first class" because you had to have had a record out 25 years before you were eligible, and it had not been 25 years yet for those guys. But that first class did have Elvis, Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, James Brown, Ray Charles, Little Richard, Sam Cooke, the Everly Brothers and a few others. You got a problem with that group? The others got in pretty much when they were eligible, except perhaps for BS.

 

No, I don't have a problem with that group. It looks I have a problem with the 25 year thing, because, IMHO, those groups I mentioned (and some I didn't) should have been a "slam dunk" without a 25 year wait. I guess a different analogy could be that if the Football HOF was founded tomorrow, Paul Brown, Jim Brown, YA Title, etc. would be "automatics," no vote even needed/considered.

 

That's all...like many of us seem to agree on, it's a personal-taste thing. I don't care for Madonna or The Sex Pistols, yet I think they were inducted before Black Sabbath.....absolutely wrong.

[The Gipper]

No, I don't have a problem with that group. It looks I have a problem with the 25 year thing, because, IMHO, those groups I mentioned (and some I didn't) should have been a "slam dunk" without a 25 year wait. I guess a different analogy could be that if the Football HOF was founded tomorrow, Paul Brown, Jim Brown, YA Title, etc. would be "automatics," no vote even needed/considered.

 

That's all...like many of us seem to agree on, it's a personal-taste thing. I don't care for Madonna or The Sex Pistols, yet I think they were inducted before Black Sabbath.....absolutely wrong.

 

Even when the Football HOF was founded, there was a 5 year wait requirement for players, and coaches had to be retired. I don't have a problem with the "wait" requirement overall. In fact Paul Browns DID have to wait to be inducted!

(And I might believe that not even to this date should Black Sabbath belong in the HOF. I don't believe, but I might if it were based solely on my personal tastes, so it is silly to proclaim something "absolutely wrong" because of personal preference)

[Bob806]

Even when the Football HOF was founded, there was a 5 year wait requirement for players, and coaches had to be retired. I don't have a problem with the "wait" requirement overall. In fact Paul Browns DID have to wait to be inducted!

(And I might believe that not even to this date should Black Sabbath belong in the HOF. I don't believe, but I might if it were based solely on my personal tastes, so it is silly to proclaim something "absolutely wrong" because of personal preference

)

 

Ok, it's point-counter point time

 

War Pigs > Material Girl

 

Paranoid > Papa Don't Preach

 

Sweet Leaf > Lucky Star

 

NIB > La Isla Bonita

 

We Sold Our Souls for Rock n Roll > Immaculate Collection

 

Ozzy studio voice > Madonna studio voice

 

Ozzy live voice > Madonna live voice

 

Black Sabbath innovative in rock, British Invasion > Popular hit maker of the 80s & 90s, like Hall & Oates (started in 70s, I know)

 

Yeah, it's my personal preference of course, but I could certainly go on forever. We will only agree to disagree.

 

[keylime]

I am a huge Carol King and Metallica fan. The Bee Gees wrote some pretty kick ass music. But in NO way should Carol King or Bee Gee's or f*cking Madonna (don't get me started on this chick) be in the Rock N' Roll Hall of fame. That is the first failure of the Rock Hall, they never defined Rock n' Roll. And as I can see they will eventually run out of ROCK bands to put in, well, rock bands that have a record company backing and marketing. The Hall inevitably defined success incorrectly. Abba sold a boat load of albums and that is the Rock Hall's definition of success. Not the fact that they ROCK. For that matter they should of created a Pop Hall of Fame in San Francisco.

 

 

Carole King definitely deserves to be in, and it's not because of her track record as a performer. She was part of the tin pan alley song writing factory in the early 60s ala Leiber and Stoller, Neil Diamond, Phil Spector, etc. She wrote a lot of hit songs. Having had a top selling album in Tapestry was just icing on the cake. Bee Gees were blue eyed soul before they made Disco so popular. They had some great stuff in the late 60s/early 70s.

 

 

regarding all the boo-hooing over ABBA getting in....I think ABBA is the least of our worries regarding the HOF. They put freakin' Run DMC, Madonna, and Grand Master Flash in, and they're trying to put in LL Cool J. Jan Wenner needs to go. Lynch mob is an order I think.

 

 

One name hardly mentioned is T.Rex. They should be in. They are so influential to their contemporaries and other bands after them. David Bowie stole Marc Bolan's shock rock tactics. They were a HUGE band in Britain back in the day, and had a few big hit records in America as well. I think they'll get in eventually, but I'm growing tired of waiting.

[ballpeen]

That is the first failure of the Rock Hall, they never defined Rock n' Roll.

 

 

You can't define rock...it is a blend of many types of music.

 

Johnny Cash in if the RR hall, but most think of him as a country music star, but in the early days, he went a little more country, Elvis went a little more pop, and it is what it is......Bill Haley was a country singer who hit it as a rock star. Conway Twitty was a rock crooner hit made it in country.

 

There is no definition.

 

OK....it sounds like you like the heavier end of the music..but Ozzie is no more important to the sound than is Ricky Nelson.

 

Ricky Nelson did a lot for RR.

 

Do you know what it was???

[flipflop]

Re AbbA .some of us like swedish girl model types. I cant help that Americans like fat bushpig rock n roll types.

Whatever floats your boat.

 

Sold 370 million albums....one for every American

 

Elvis Costello - admits freely that he and producer Nick Lowe lifted the piano rifts from "Waterloo" and "Dancing Queen" for his song "Oliver's Army."

 

Pete Townsend - says that both "SOS," and "Knowing Me, Knowing You" are two of the most perfect pop songs ever written and produced.

 

Johhny Rotten - has said on many occasions that he and the rest of the Sex Pistols "always loved ABBA."

 

Ray Davies - has said he is a fan

 

Chrissie Hynde - said in an interview that The Pretenders were influence by ABBA's strong melodic sense

 

Kurt Cobian - An ABBA "Greatest Hits" CD was often heard blasting on the Nirvana tour bus

 

U2 - regularly covered "Dancing Queen" on a tour a few years ago, including once with guest Benny and Bjorn at a show in Stockholm.

[ballpeen]

That is the thing with rock these days. It seems to be stuck on the heavy end. There isn't any real room for pop anymore, it just doesn't get the play.

 

Probably why you see a wave of new country artists. It is more the pop music these days. Darius Rucker is a good example. He couldn't get any real play on rock stations anymore, so where does he go....country. Add some fiddle and steel guitar and boom, a black pop singer becomes country newcomer of the year.

 

That is why in time, most people end up liking country. It begins to sound more like the music you once heard over the new wave of rock. A band like the Eagles couldn't get air play as a rock band these days. At least at this point, country seems to be the music that has the broadest spectrum of styles.

 

Oh...the answer to the Ricky Nelson question...until Ricky hit the scene, rock was viewed as a renegade brand of music...but if Ozzie and Harriet's son Ricky could be a rock crooner, that made it ok in the minds of many parents. He brought RR in to your living room every week through his parents TV show.

 

I guess it could be said he pioneered the rock video.

[calfoxwc]

But Darious did have a legit background of country...

 

He's great.

[The Gipper]

Ok, it's point-counter point time

 

War Pigs > Material Girl

 

Paranoid > Papa Don't Preach

 

Sweet Leaf > Lucky Star

 

NIB > La Isla Bonita

 

We Sold Our Souls for Rock n Roll > Immaculate Collection

 

Ozzy studio voice > Madonna studio voice

 

Ozzy live voice > Madonna live voice

 

Black Sabbath innovative in rock, British Invasion > Popular hit maker of the 80s & 90s, like Hall & Oates (started in 70s, I know)

 

Yeah, it's my personal preference of course, but I could certainly go on forever. We will only agree to disagree.

 

And we do. (and on one point, I say that Madonna was quite innovative and not just a popular hit maker.....but I am also saying they are both worthy of inclusion for both of their influence on music....though their styles were widely divergent)

 

[Bob806]

And we do. (and on one point, I say that Madonna was quite innovative and not just a popular hit maker.....but I am also saying they are both worthy of inclusion for both of their influence on music....though their styles were widely divergent)

 

 

Lol....Go Browns

 

[Speedyd900rr]

That is the thing with rock these days. It seems to be stuck on the heavy end. There isn't any real room for pop anymore, it just doesn't get the play.

 

Probably why you see a wave of new country artists. It is more the pop music these days. Darius Rucker is a good example. He couldn't get any real play on rock stations anymore, so where does he go....country. Add some fiddle and steel guitar and boom, a black pop singer becomes country newcomer of the year.

 

That is why in time, most people end up liking country. It begins to sound more like the music you once heard over the new wave of rock. A band like the Eagles couldn't get air play as a rock band these days. At least at this point, country seems to be the music that has the broadest spectrum of styles.

 

I have to agree with you there. Im on the younger side (27) and I listen to everything from country, classic rock, metal, punk, bluegrass, swing, classical, big band, etc... depending on my mood. Today's country is not country. It's getting pretty sad actually with this rap/pop sound they added to it just so they could get a younger crowd to listen. They sold out basically. For example, when I turn on some Hank sr I can get emotional and feel it but when I turn on some new stuff it doesn't even make me think about anything. It's like they all say the same thing with different music in the background. I will admit I like some of it but for the most part it's all junk. I USED to listen to rap and the same thing happened with that genre. They used to tell stories and made it sound good but these days EVERY song is I have money, I have guns, I have woman, buy my cd and make me richer so I can waste antother 50 grand on some jewelry. Music today is getting so bad that it reached a point where I dont even listen to the radio unless it's a station that plays stuff from the early 80's back.