Mangini / Holmgren

[lodilobo]

I get the feeling that Holmgren will be coming here, and Mangini will be booted out. In my opinion, this is not good news for the fans. Here we go again......another 5 year plan. I don't really give a crap that Holmgren is supposed to be some major football guru. There are no guarantees. Why do you waste all that time on Crennel, who was a nice guy, but was clueless from the minute he took the job, then get rid of Mnagini, just as he starting to show us, that he does have a plan? The players obviously will play for him. If it is announced soon that Holmgren is the new President or Czar or whatever.....look for us to lose the last 3 games, and look bad doing it. It's sending the message that Mangini is done, so there's no reason to listen to him. Of course, certain players will be trying to impress Holmgren, so some may play hard, but the chemistry that we have seen start to take place will be gone. I might be wrong, but I don't think this is a good move. I'm not sold on Holmgren. It looks like he will be paid around 10 million a year. If we don't see immediate results early next season, then what? I would have taken the job for half that.

[Gips]

Im not so sure holmgren is coming to cleveland ,but if he does i welcome him with open arms and i think holmgren will leave the mangini choice to whomever becomes holmgren's GM...

Im not really for mangini being fired at this point especially if he can pull off 2 more wins ,otherwise i dont buy into his "process snowjob" and bye bye ,but if he does get another year im betting his own stubborn stupidity on offensive strategy and deployment gets him fired at the end of next years fruitless season..unless a good OC is put in place and allowed to operate a better more versatile system..

[JoeSixPat]

I get the feeling that Holmgren will be coming here, and Mangini will be booted out. In my opinion, this is not good news for the fans. Here we go again......another 5 year plan. I don't really give a crap that Holmgren is supposed to be some major football guru. There are no guarantees. Why do you waste all that time on Crennel, who was a nice guy, but was clueless from the minute he took the job, then get rid of Mnagini, just as he starting to show us, that he does have a plan? The players obviously will play for him. If it is announced soon that Holmgren is the new President or Czar or whatever.....look for us to lose the last 3 games, and look bad doing it. It's sending the message that Mangini is done, so there's no reason to listen to him. Of course, certain players will be trying to impress Holmgren, so some may play hard, but the chemistry that we have seen start to take place will be gone. I might be wrong, but I don't think this is a good move. I'm not sold on Holmgren. It looks like he will be paid around 10 million a year. If we don't see immediate results early next season, then what? I would have taken the job for half that.

 

I keep asking everyone to explain to me what it is that Mangini has "built" here that a new and better coach would have to tear down before building his own team.

 

Near as I can figure the best you can say about Mangini to date is that he's disassembled a bad team.

 

The next coach can certainly thank him but it's not like the next coach is behind the 8-ball. He'll be starting with a fresh slate - much in the same way Mangini would be if he hadn't damaged his own credibility and respect with all his bone-head moves this season.

[Earl34]

Eric Mangini has built a model of lockerroom professionalism that heretofore did not exist. He's built a scheme to allow lesser talent to improve enough to beat a physically superior team last week. He has built a stronger sense of "team" to the point where they ran out in sub freezing temps and outhustled, outmuscled and outschemed a better team. Guys don't play like that for just anyone. They didn't do it for RAC. It's not the Super Bowl and it isn't even 8-8 but it's a start. It's a positive direction.

 

There. Now go away. Belichick is so glad he's out of the division and that's for a reason.

[DawgTracker]

The more I think about it the less I fear Mangini will be leaving. On the Cowherd show two days ago they were talking about Parcels leaving Dallas and all of the smart people who left with him. He said "Smart people hand out with each other and dopes hang out with each other" I put Mangini and Holmgren in the category of smart football people. Add in a GM who can help with talent evaluation and you will have a winner. I think that personnel moves should go through the coach for approval (as they do in NE) with Holmgren being the tie breaker in disputes.

 

If you can assemble a GM and coach who work as a team it will be much more effective than having one or the other with all of the power imho

[lodilobo]

I keep asking everyone to explain to me what it is that Mangini has "built" here that a new and better coach would have to tear down before building his own team.

 

Near as I can figure the best you can say about Mangini to date is that he's disassembled a bad team.

 

The next coach can certainly thank him but it's not like the next coach is behind the 8-ball. He'll be starting with a fresh slate - much in the same way Mangini would be if he hadn't damaged his own credibility and respect with all his bone-head moves this season.

What boneheaded moves??...because he yanked BQ out of the middle of a game, when he clearly couldn't move the ball? He's not the only coach to ever do that. Or maybe it's because he made Braylon Edward's pay $1700.00 for a bottle of water. Maybe if Braylon didn't constantly steal stuff from hotels, after he was warned numerous times, that wouldn't have happened. Maybe your talking about game time decisions.......he's the only coach who has made mistakes in a game? What is it in your opinion, that makes Mangini such a bad coach? He's vague on injured players details?.....name a coach that isn't? He's over weight?.....you must have hated Romeo. If you haven't noticed, Holmgren is not exactly slim. Did you ever think that maybe you're being railroaded by the media to dislike this guy? All I am sure of is this.....I haven't seen a Browns team play with enthusiasm and desire in a very long time....until the Steelers game. I think Mangini had something to do with that. You can bring in Holmgren, Parcells, Bellichik, or Vince Lombardi, but I doubt that the team would play more inspired than they did in that game.

[Chip Banks]

I keep asking everyone to explain to me what it is that Mangini has "built" here that a new and better coach would have to tear down before building his own team.

 

Near as I can figure the best you can say about Mangini to date is that he's disassembled a bad team.

 

The next coach can certainly thank him but it's not like the next coach is behind the 8-ball. He'll be starting with a fresh slate - much in the same way Mangini would be if he hadn't damaged his own credibility and respect with all his bone-head moves this season.

 

It seems that you are smart enough to concede that this is by design, and partially a necessary function of the poor salary cap situation that Opie left, right?

 

Mangini cast off some malcontents with trade value and held an audition season for the most part. He cut the cancers out of the locker room to the extent that he could. His plan obviously wasn't and isn't a "win now" plan gone awry -- it's an identify who responds to coaching and plays hard and build from that core. I'd hope that he shared that vision with Lerner. It's been a rocky start, but for those who care to see it, the plan is starting to come into focus. You see guys like Harrison "getting" that he has to do more than just be able to run the ball to get the opportunity to make his mark in the NFL. A lesson Romeo couldn't teach. Embrace the Mangini way or reject it, the players are getting to understand it. New coach, new adjustment period.

 

What Mangini has "built" is an organization where discipline and accountability is respected over raw talent. A locker room where "meritocracy" is understood: Guys on the practice squad know that if they play hard enough they'll get a shot -- even at the expense of guys that this regime has invested draft picks in acquiring. It would have been very easy, for instance, to just stick Veikune in there in front of Marcus Bernard. The team isn't committing stupid penalties. A sophisticated disguise defensive scheme is starting to take hold after some obvious and maddening growing pains. It's baby steps to developing a winning culture in the Parcells/Belichick mold. You know that. Identify guys who love the game instead of those who love the things that playing the game can bring. Once you have assembled your core, they can police a few talented guys with character issues. An army of ants can carry a cockroach. But you can't start with the cockroaches.

 

Is a new coach in a better place taking over this team than Mangini was taking over Opie and Romeo's train wreck? Hell yes. But the philosophy will change at some level --maybe not for the better. The new coaching staff will begin their roster evaluation anew with a jaundiced eye towards "Mangini's guys." Some of the serviceable pieces that Mangini has identified for his system simply might not fit. It'll be a new direction with an adjustment period. You'll have to give the new coach the same three years for his system and philosophy to take hold that Mangini should be given. It's a short step back considering that Mangini's been here only one year, but a step back still.

 

There is the start of something promising that will be torn down. You just have to be willing to see it.

 

 

 

 

 

[JoeSixPat]

It seems that you are smart enough to concede that this is by design, and partially a necessary function of the poor salary cap situation that Opie left, right?

 

Mangini cast off some malcontents with trade value and held an audition season for the most part. He cut the cancers out of the locker room to the extent that he could. His plan obviously wasn't and isn't a "win now" plan gone awry -- it's an identify who responds to coaching and plays hard and build from that core. I'd hope that he shared that vision with Lerner. It's been a rocky start, but for those who care to see it, the plan is starting to come into focus. You see guys like Harrison "getting" that he has to do more than just be able to run the ball to get the opportunity to make his mark in the NFL. A lesson Romeo couldn't teach. Embrace the Mangini way or reject it, the players are getting to understand it. New coach, new adjustment period.

 

What Mangini has "built" is an organization where discipline and accountability is respected over raw talent. A locker room where "meritocracy" is understood: Guys on the practice squad know that if they play hard enough they'll get a shot -- even at the expense of guys that this regime has invested draft picks in acquiring. It would have been very easy, for instance, to just stick Veikune in there in front of Marcus Bernard. The team isn't committing stupid penalties. A sophisticated disguise defensive scheme is starting to take hold after some obvious and maddening growing pains. It's baby steps to developing a winning culture in the Parcells/Belichick mold. You know that. Identify guys who love the game instead of those who love the things that playing the game can bring. Once you have assembled your core, they can police a few talented guys with character issues. An army of ants can carry a cockroach. But you can't start with the cockroaches.

 

Is a new coach in a better place taking over this team than Mangini was taking over Opie and Romeo's train wreck? Hell yes. But the philosophy will change at some level --maybe not for the better. The new coaching staff will begin their roster evaluation anew with a jaundiced eye towards "Mangini's guys." Some of the serviceable pieces that Mangini has identified for his system simply might not fit. It'll be a new direction with an adjustment period. You'll have to give the new coach the same three years for his system and philosophy to take hold that Mangini should be given. It's a short step back considering that Mangini's been here only one year, but a step back still.

 

There is the start of something promising that will be torn down. You just have to be willing to see it.

 

I don't particularly disagree with anything in your post - I just wouldn't concede that there's anything that a new coach couldn't or wouldn't continue. I don't see Holmgren coming in and hiring a laid back players coach. Just the opposite. I see him hiring someone like Mangini, except with the skills and experience and authority that Mangini lacks.

 

In that respect the next coach should give a tip of the hat to Mangini for disassembling the team in a strategic manner - in some cases the moves were no brainers, getting rid of talented but malignant personalities who commanded big paychecks as well.

 

But if there's something that the next coach can't build on I'm not seeing it... they wouldn't have anything to tear down to start from scratch. They're AT scratch right now. That strikes me as a good time to make a move... giving another year to Mangini strikes me as a worse move. At that point there might actually be something that needs to be torn down to start over.

 

I really don't see Holmgren letting everyone think Lerner bribed him with a $10 million salary into keeping Mangini - nor Holmgren letting his success ride on Mangini's shoulders.

 

[JoeSixPat]

What boneheaded moves??...because he yanked BQ out of the middle of a game, when he clearly couldn't move the ball? He's not the only coach to ever do that. Or maybe it's because he made Braylon Edward's pay $1700.00 for a bottle of water. Maybe if Braylon didn't constantly steal stuff from hotels, after he was warned numerous times, that wouldn't have happened. Maybe your talking about game time decisions.......he's the only coach who has made mistakes in a game? What is it in your opinion, that makes Mangini such a bad coach? He's vague on injured players details?.....name a coach that isn't? He's over weight?.....you must have hated Romeo. If you haven't noticed, Holmgren is not exactly slim. Did you ever think that maybe you're being railroaded by the media to dislike this guy? All I am sure of is this.....I haven't seen a Browns team play with enthusiasm and desire in a very long time....until the Steelers game. I think Mangini had something to do with that. You can bring in Holmgren, Parcells, Bellichik, or Vince Lombardi, but I doubt that the team would play more inspired than they did in that game.

 

At QB - some might disagree but I felt Mangini let the QB competition go on far too long... was it 1 week before the first game that he decided? Less?

 

Then he proclaimed that the winner would be given the support and security any QB needs. Yeah right. That lasted 2.5 games.

 

Don't you think that other players notice when a coach breaks his word so easilly? Then, although he wouldn't commit to Quinn, he did commit far too long to Anderson (though at that point Mangini needed to save face which is why Anderson was in there too long) - when a coach decides that saving face is more important than giving the team the best chance to win there's a problem.

 

And THAT'S just the QB situation. Let's look at Mangini's decision making in terms of personnel. His personal operations director was fired and then so too was Mangini's hand-picked GM. Of course Brian Daboll is an outstanding choice for OC, as I'm sure everyone here agrees as well.

 

That's just the tip of the iceberg. You can defend the $1700 water bottle fine if you want but it's clear that the former Browns PR Intern knows nothing about PR and how that affects the ability to command respect from one's team.

[DawgTracker]

I would argue that Quinn was the one who let the QB competition last too long, Mangini had very little choice as both of them sucked early.

[Earl34]

I would argue that Quinn was the one who let the QB competition last too long, Mangini had very little choice as both of them sucked early.

 

I agree; I think it wasn't good for Mangini but I think it played out like this:

 

-Mangini names Quinn the starter. I don't care if it was an hour before game 1. It's overblown. Many coaches have held off naming starters this season yet only EM gets lambasted for it.

-After two and a half games with a QB who is not finding the open receivers, checking down like he's Jason Campbell and just not moving the offense....he puts in DA in hopes that the offense will move.

 

-it moves at first but then becomes a debacle. What now? He's already benched Quinn after 2.5 games. If he benches DA after 2 or 3 games, then he's starting to look like the guy who's waffling. He'll be switching horses so fast that he won't actually get anywhere. It would be met with the "Mangini has lost control" stories or the "Mangini can't make up his mind" stories. So, he HAS to stay with DA at least a bit longer.

 

-It gets worse (as though we could have imagined the depths....) and then he goes back to Quinn at the bye.

 

It makes perfect sense to me. It doesn't scream of "debacle" or sheer mishandling when you acknowledge that up until the Detroit game it didn't matter WHO was at QB...they both stunk.

[DieselPusher]

I keep asking everyone to explain to me what it is that Mangini has "built" here that a new and better coach would have to tear down before building his own team.

 

Near as I can figure the best you can say about Mangini to date is that he's disassembled a bad team.

 

The next coach can certainly thank him but it's not like the next coach is behind the 8-ball. He'll be starting with a fresh slate - much in the same way Mangini would be ........

 

Gonna have to agree with you here.

[kshutchins]

Eric Mangini has built a model of lockerroom professionalism that heretofore did not exist. He's built a scheme to allow lesser talent to improve enough to beat a physically superior team last week. He has built a stronger sense of "team" to the point where they ran out in sub freezing temps and outhustled, outmuscled and outschemed a better team. Guys don't play like that for just anyone. They didn't do it for RAC. It's not the Super Bowl and it isn't even 8-8 but it's a start. It's a positive direction.

 

 

I'm inclined to agree with this.

[peterbell]

I see him hiring someone like Mangini, except with the skills and experience and authority that Mangini lacks.

As colin cowherd says "smart people like smart people'..Holgrem is smart..Mangini is very smart

 

See, this is where mindless troll comes into play

Skills, experience and authority..

13 years in the league, 3 SB rings, 4 years HC experience,worked for Parcells, Beli. Marchibroda

Authority..you're kidding right