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ESPN's John Clayton Reporting Holmgren Will Fire Mangini


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Flugels, Here is where I disagree with you, You say you like the way the team is playing for Mangini, did you ever think that some of these guys are playing for jobs next year with the Browns and for other NFL teams to get a look at them

 

There is no pressure on this team to win we have been out of the playoff picture so long ago its much easier to play/win when there is no pressure to win

 

You speak of Mangini and the draft choices he got us, Tom our draft STUNK, we traded out of the #5 spot bypassed numerous playmakers such as Harvin, Maclin, Clay Mathews ect who could have helped this year while we selected a Center, I don't think you ever select a center in the 1st round, Veikune has not got on the field, Robiske has been a BUST he has done nothing, looking at the draft Tom what did we get that makes you so excited? MoMass and Mack?

 

Tom there were guys late in the season who only saw the field because of injuries, Moore the tight end only was promoted from the practice squad because of injuries, same with Bernard and a few other players, otherwise we would have seen more of tiptoe Jamal at running back, and Royal at tight end, Mangini never gave these young guys a chance because he wanted to, he only played them because of injuries

 

You talk of the 11 draft picks this year, most of the 11 draft choices are 5th and 6th round picks, so how many contributions do you really expect us to get? you seem to think Mangini got us all these extra picks where we can net top prospects whereas we got a bunch of 5th and 6th round picks.

 

On defense we still can't stop the run, we still can't stop the pass

 

People say I don't want to tear it down and start over again....Tell me what are we tearing down and starting over?

 

Do you call wins agains a bad Steeler team, and wins against the Chiefs and maybe a bad Raider team and that win against the Bills progress by Mangini or has he likes to sell people its a process have you forgot its a 16 game season and for the first 12 games we STUNK and tell me what team have we defeated with a winning record?

 

Do you realize our starting QB (Quinn) until he was injured has won 2 NFL games as a starter and not throw for over 100 yards in each of his 2 victories

 

Lets hope Holmgren comes and builds this team the correct way because we don't have anything to tear down and start over.

 

Sony good to here from you. Please call because I lost your phone number in my accident. I liked some of your post. Yes in toto the Browns stink. That is mostly remnants of Savage. Not sure if Mangini sucks or has potential, he inherited the biggest mismanagement I have ever seen in football in Savage. yet Savage was saluted for three years as really really building the team. I got hammered on three sites for wanting him gone three months into his debacle. Our guy, the monitors Riffer, was adulating how great Savage was.

 

The "In Savage WE Trust" flag was flying high while I called him Sewage which he was

 

I lilke the idea of not having players who are 35 and with a 100 pounds of blubber or head cases..............Mangini and worked some of those issues

 

The biggest issue I have with what you just said is Quinn.........he stinks and is a loser........and not two long ago you quipped he was better than sliced bread

 

Are you admitting you blew if big time on Quinn..............I hope so cause he sucks ........anyway, you are still one of the best football guys I know

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Sony good to here from you. Please call because I lost your phone number in my accident. I liked some of your post. Yes in toto the Browns stink. That is mostly remnants of Savage. Not sure if Mangini sucks or has potential, he inherited the biggest mismanagement I have ever seen in football in Savage. yet Savage was saluted for three years as really really building the team. I got hammered on three sites for wanting him gone three months into his debacle. Our guy, the monitors Riffer, was adulating how great Savage was.

 

The "In Savage WE Trust" flag was flying high while I called him Sewage which he was

 

I lilke the idea of not having players who are 35 and with a 100 pounds of blubber or head cases..............Mangini and worked some of those issues

 

The biggest issue I have with what you just said is Quinn.........he stinks and is a loser........and not two long ago you quipped he was better than sliced bread

 

Are you admitting you blew if big time on Quinn..............I hope so cause he sucks ........anyway, you are still one of the best football guys I know

 

Merry Christmas Rich, I will contact you

 

I admit Brady Quinn is not a NFL starting quarterback.......he is terrible

 

Quinn has won 2 games in his career as a starter and he is yet to throw for 100 yards in each of his 2 victories

 

I was wrong about Quinn I thought he would be good but after last season I came to admit I was wrong about Quinn, this guy is a loser

 

Quinn has had 1 good game this season against Detroit, against San Diego he put up some yards in garbage time, he did nothing aginst the Steelers or Chiefs

 

People must realize the most important thing in the WCO is accuracy by the quarterback and Quinn does not have it

 

The starting quarterback for the Browns in 2010 is not on the Browns roster today

 

Rich we have no offensive playmakers and you have people wanting to draft defense again....uh uh uh

 

Btw, I told you last year Mangini is terrible....Here is the thing with Mangini he can coach but you are not going to win many games with a guy like Mangini

after he is fired by the Browns Mangini will never get another head coaching job in the NFL

 

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Flugels, Here is where I disagree with you, You say you like the way the team is playing for Mangini, did you ever think that some of these guys are playing for jobs next year with the Browns and for other NFL teams to get a look at them

 

There is no pressure on this team to win we have been out of the playoff picture so long ago its much easier to play/win when there is no pressure to win

 

You speak of Mangini and the draft choices he got us, Tom our draft STUNK, we traded out of the #5 spot bypassed numerous playmakers such as Harvin, Maclin, Clay Mathews ect who could have helped this year while we selected a Center, I don't think you ever select a center in the 1st round,

 

 

Sony,

Glad to see you posting again. Let me clarify what you've asked for.

 

1) I enjoy seeing our team being one of the least penalized teams so that beating Pittsburgh was possible much like beating KC became possible just 1 week later. And why? We're not seeing our team in the SAME 1st and 15s and 1st and 20s we saw in 2008, which makes moving the chains a little more consistent and doable.

 

2) When was the last time you saw our defense sack Pittsburgh's QB 8 times? They played for RYAN, who works for Mangini. From what I've read and heard, the defensive guys ENJOY playing for Ryan. That's one-third of the team.

 

3) Our STs pinned Pittsburgh deep on countless occasions (just like they did vrs Buffalo) takes more than a COUPLE guys just playing to impress other teams. It takes 11 guys that want to work together and WIN field position or to help Cribbs score. And did I mention, we pinned Pitt and KC deep with a backup punter? It sure looks like our STs guys buy into our STs Coach and they're all on the same page. Sure there's an occasional blunder like the Pontbriand snap that hit Sorenson's elbow and gave KC a TD but our STs made up for it. This is another 3rd of the team.

 

4) I'm going to disagree about our 2009 draft sucking. When Mangini was hired we were only looking at a sum of 4 draft picks for 2009, which Mangini would double in volume to 8. In the process, we also added some experienced defensive starters and rotation guys from the Jets team that finished 9-7 a year ago. As for the Center thing, in 1993 Bill Belichick drafted a Center out of Michigan named Steve Everitt with our 14th overall pick in round 1. That would mark the only season BB got us to the playoffs in his 5 years with Cleveland. Alex Mack has been playing some pretty good football as of late. If we remember that Andy Reid deemed Hank Fraley too old to start in 2006, addign a promising young Center with upside was long overdue. Other picks that have shown promise this year include: Kaluka Maiava, MoMass, Coye Francies and James Davis. On top of that, undrafted FA Marcus Benard looked like a pretty good rookie to me when Ben wore him like a jersey. I also like the young TE from Stanford - Evan Moore in recent weeks. The RB Jennings wasn't a bad find for the price of a Walmart soda and a bag of chips.

 

5) Misc: David Bowens was a GREAT addition to our defense. I'm not in the D'Qwell fanclub; so it's refreshing to see a player with GOOD 1st step instinct making plays as an ILBer at the line of scrimmage or behind it. Matt Roth is also a good addition IMO. The local kid Jason Trusnik as well as Chansi Stucky (plus 2 more draft picks for 2010) were good exchange value for a player as unreliable as Braylon Edwards became. Hard to fault Mangini with the QB debacle he inherited. We didn't have the 1st pick for Stafford and Sanchez has alot of people nervous in NY. BECAUSE Quinn never got game reps when he should have - it took THIS year to find out what we should have already known and didn't. We already knew DA"s Cinderella story hit midnight in late October of 2007.

 

6) When we played Pitt & KC - we only had 3 remaining offensive starters from 2008 (Thomas, Steinbach, Vickers). On the defensive side of the ball we onmly has 4: (Williams, Wright, McDonald, Wimbley). We didn't even have the starting punter right? I'd say our coaching staff aced the challenge.

 

That's pretty much where I'm at. If they played the second half of the season like they played the first - I'd prolly wouldn't care if Mangini stayed or sprayed. Truth of the matter is, every time he's had a good QB starting for him he's either won 9 games or 11 games as a Head Coach. What if you got your wish for a new head Coach and it was Marty's Morningsickness? It's difficult to tell what you have in a head Coach OR a draft after just 1 season.

- Tom F.

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Glad to see both Sony and Rich posting.

 

I agree with Rich in that it is good to see mangini working the head cases off the team and demanding some accountability out of these guys.

 

 

If mangini is let go, i don't think it is because of his coaching or plan. To me it will simply be a matter of personality...how Holmgren feels he will be able to work with the guy. Holmgren is going to have some say...a lot to be honest...he doesn't want a coach in there where he is going to have to sell everything he wants to see done, or simply tell the coach this is the way it is going to be. I think he is going to want someone in there who already knows the plan and is already going to do things the Holmgren way.

 

That doesn't mean the coach can't coach his way or would do things as Holmgren would do, there has to be some individuality, but in the broad picture Holmgren has to feel comfortable with the coach and his methods.

 

I am not sure Mangini is going to provide that comfort level. So rather than go through a period where friction might occur, it might be best to just remove that possibility from the get go rather than see how it goes for a few years, then have to make a coaching change.

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Firstly, I see a ton of Jets games living on the East Coast and watching the Jets play the previous 3 years, that is CLEARLY Eric Mangini's 3-4 the Browns are running along with the coverages and blitzes..I coached football for 30 years so I have a good understanding of what I'm watching and feel qualified to make this statement.

 

The Browns have DOUBLED their sack total

Reduced their penalties by more than half.

Mangini had the balls to jettison 2 major pains in the asses and locker room cancers

We now have 11 DRAFT PICKS

The roster is very solid from 23 to 53

Picked up a starter and a beast like Roth and it didn't cost us a dime

Found a diamond in the rough at the TE position

Has made JH a better player by having the balls to bench his ass until he became a "willing blocker"

Wimberly has returned to form under Coach Cox tutorledge.

The defense has given up 8 pts a game to Div rivals 2nd time around (minus 2 starting LBers and nose)

Special teams are one of the best in the league

Utilizing Josh Cribbs everywhere possible

By the way we are playing with a f**king wide receiver in the secondary.

Cutting or releasing 26 "players" from last years roster and 2 are now employed in the NFL.(nice job Savage)

Changing the culture of an ENTIRE NFL franchise from the ground up..(in less then a year by the way)

Clearly has the support of players like Cribbs,Thomas,Wimberly..oh and Jim Brown.

 

Does Mangini deserve another year..NO QUESTION..Holmgren a smart guy,Mangini's a smart guy, to me

its a great situation for the Browns.

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Firstly, I see a ton of Jets games living on the East Coast and watching the Jets play the previous 3 years, that is CLEARLY Eric Mangini's 3-4 the Browns are running along with the coverages and blitzes..I coached football for 30 years so I have a good understanding of what I'm watching and feel qualified to make this statement.

 

The Browns have DOUBLED their sack total

Reduced their penalties by more than half.

Mangini had the balls to jettison 2 major pains in the asses and locker room cancers

We now have 11 DRAFT PICKS

The roster is very solid from 23 to 53

Picked up a starter and a beast like Roth and it didn't cost us a dime

Found a diamond in the rough at the TE position

Has made JH a better player by having the balls to bench his ass until he became a "willing blocker"

Wimberly has returned to form under Coach Cox tutorledge.

The defense has given up 8 pts a game to Div rivals 2nd time around (minus 2 starting LBers and nose)

Special teams are one of the best in the league

Utilizing Josh Cribbs everywhere possible

By the way we are playing with a f**king wide receiver in the secondary.

Cutting or releasing 26 "players" from last years roster and 2 are now employed in the NFL.(nice job Savage)

Changing the culture of an ENTIRE NFL franchise from the ground up..(in less then a year by the way)

Clearly has the support of players like Cribbs,Thomas,Wimberly..oh and Jim Brown.

 

Does Mangini deserve another year..NO QUESTION..Holmgren a smart guy,Mangini's a smart guy, to me

its a great situation for the Browns.

 

I've now posted enough that I'm sure you realize that I agree with all the great points made here.

 

When push comes to shove, I just don't see Holmgren committing to Mangini's schemes and philosophies. And anything short of a commitment in this franchise-defining offseason would be a mistake. Holmgren needs to do the right thing: Define a vision for the Browns that includes a football philosophy and identify complementary people on both the coaching and personnel sides that share a common vision. Then he must stay the course and let it take hold.

 

I firmly believe that given the chance and given the proper support Mangini would turn this thing around. We're still making too many mistakes in our defense and lack some necessary personnel, but if you can't see the potential in Mangini's disguise defense you just don't know football. We're starting to establish an identity as a cold-weather run-first team. Two weeks in a row, three different guys running the ball. We had our way at the line of scrimmage against KC when everyone knew we were going to run and put up some impressive numbers against the #1 rush defense on a night where you almost didn't have to defend the pass. It has looked so much like the Jets rushing offense that Mangini build in his time at NY that you can't just say they stumbled into it. By the way, did anyone key on Mack last week? There were times he was driving a man 15 yards backwards. There were other times I saw him blow the guy in front of him off the ball and make a block on the second level. In the second half of the season, he's been extremely impressive including superior games against Pitt and Baltimore. This guy will be our best offensive lineman two years from now. But for Tucker's retirement, and perhaps Davis's injury, I think we might have seen this earlier

 

I think statements like the Browns will be better off without Mangini stem from the lemming-like mentality that has infected Cleveland Sports fans for the last 20 years. That said, I also think that its unrealistic to assume Mangini's job security even if he wins out. I think Mangini will be shown the door even though Holmgren will see that Mangini has done the "right" things almost all the way down the line.

 

I also think we'll be extremely fortunate to land a new head coach as talented as Mangini and, in any event, his firing and transition to new schemes will set the team's progress back 1-2 years.

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Sony good to here from you. Please call because I lost your phone number in my accident. I liked some of your post. Yes in toto the Browns stink. That is mostly remnants of Savage. Not sure if Mangini sucks or has potential, he inherited the biggest mismanagement I have ever seen in football in Savage. yet Savage was saluted for three years as really really building the team. I got hammered on three sites for wanting him gone three months into his debacle. Our guy, the monitors Riffer, was adulating how great Savage was.

 

Rich,

 

Great points about Savage and Mangini. The THANKS I gave you was for everything but the unnecessary and innaccurate jab at Riffer. It would be nice if you could SHOW the board all the knowledge you have about this team and its history without sucker punching people and then asking why you've worn out your welcome. There's a PART of you that would be great for the board and then there's the old: "hey Ghoolie look at all these idiots that don't know anything" side you'd prefer for some inexplicable reason. Seems to me like you have another chance to come in and show us you are a good person to talk football with. I'd like that - so don't be your own worst enemy. Seems like I've had to tell so many people that ain't the Rich I've met in person at all; but you haven't exactly helped my cred when the reply is "we can only go by what he wants us to see all the time."

 

All Riffer ever said in his own way was we've already seen countless auditions from DA to know he is NOT the guy. MANY people just wanted to see WHAT Quinn had since we committed a 1st round pick to him. You at least have to PLAY the guy when the alternative is an INT machine with terrible completion percentages and 100 mph touch passes 3-5 yards away. Jack hammering our fans with insults is just misplaced anger guy. Of course we're gonna have a wishful thinking mentality - because the alternative is to hope we suck for an "I told you so?" Are ya kidding me? After meeting you in person and enjoying your company - you've NEVER had to prove yourself to me. Quit being so damn abrasive and LET people enjoy your wisdom.

 

I know you want people to know you adore BB as you BLASTED every following regime here for drafting a TE or a Center in round 1. Here's the thing: BB drafted Ben Watson in round 1 and Daniel Graham in round 1 only to use Mike Vrabel in the red zone instead. Meanwhile he also drafted Tommy Vardell a FULLBACK with our 13th pick overall only to learn Leroy Hoard's ability never required such draft day absurdity. Speaking of no-no's with TEs - do you remember his meltdown when the Jets drafted the TE he wanted with our first round pick (Kyle Brady)? He knee jerked and drafted Craig Powell with our 1st round pick in the upper half of round 1. And last but not least, who drafted Center Steve Everitt in round 1 with a 14th pick overall? That was BB in 1993. Let's not pretend BB didn't sentence us to football follies by Todd Philcox for far too long in the 90s. I NEVER saw BB's exotic schemes and game plans working in NE when he was starting Drew Bledose. That didn't happen until he learned Tom Brady was much better than a 6th round pick as winless football turned into Superbowl Championship #1 right before America's eyes. It was another Kurt Warner story. Bringing it all back to us: when we had the RIGHT QBs here we won. That's pretty much the mission today. I don't mind us moving on and looking for more than Quinn in the near future. LIKE you, pre-draft I wanted Troy Smith here especially with the understanding he wouldn't be drafted until round 4 (that was the ONLY place you and I disagreed was on draft projection). I STILL would like us to go after Troy Smith.

- Tom F.

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I NEVER saw BB's exotic schemes and game plans working in NE when he was starting Drew Bledose. That didn't happen until he learned Tom Brady was much better than a 6th round pick as winless football turned into Superbowl Championship #1 right before America's eyes. It was another Kurt Warner story. Bringing it all back to us: when we had the RIGHT QBs here we won. That's pretty much the mssion today. I don't mind us moving on and looking for more than Quinn in the near future.

- Tom F.

 

Great point Tom. I think that Bill Belichick is entitled to the spoils that go along with discovering what a Tom Brady can do. That said, there was no one on the planet who could have thought him any more than average coming out of Michigan and it took an injury (a hemothorax to be exact) for Brady to see the field. The best evaluators miss sometimes. This happens in football where a player with a resume is in decline but no one will bench him and, when he's out due to injury,....the answer was already underneath their noses.

 

My thought for next year (regardless of who's coaching) is that Quinn stays, DA goes (he's had more than enough opportunity) and a new QB is brought in just in case the 66-yard per game BQ is the norm and not the exception. Figure they spend a 3rd or 4th round pick unless they REALLY know that Quinn is not the guy.

 

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Great point Tom. I think that Bill Belichick is entitled to the spoils that go along with discovering what a Tom Brady can do. That said, there was no one on the planet who could have thought him any more than average coming out of Michigan and it took an injury (a hemothorax to be exact) for Brady to see the field. The best evaluators miss sometimes. This happens in football where a player with a resume is in decline but no one will bench him and, when he's out due to injury,....the answer was already underneath their noses.

 

My thought for next year (regardless of who's coaching) is that Quinn stays, DA goes (he's had more than enough opportunity) and a new QB is brought in just in case the 66-yard per game BQ is the norm and not the exception. Figure they spend a 3rd or 4th round pick unless they REALLY know that Quinn is not the guy.

 

FWIW, there's been a TON of fans that told me Vince Young wasn't anywhere near as good of a QB as Jay Cutler. I used to say I can't make a final conclusion when his best #1 WR is Drew Bennett and the other is journeyman Bobby Wade. Forgetting last night for 1 second, VY was 7-1 with the SAME roster Kerry Collins was 0-6 with because he now has talented options such as 1st round pick Kenny Britt, FA Nate Washington and Justin Gage when healthy. Not to mention, VY never started with Chris Johnson as the feature back. All people did was PRETEND VY didn't pull a hammy and injure his knee so they could quickly label him a bad QB. If Drew Brees seperates his passing shoulder - his #1 strength is lost and his performance is sure to slide - see brett Favre's arm at the end of 08. VY was college football's MOST ACCURATE passer in his junior (final) year because of what his legs setup for football's most forgoten attribute (VISION at the speed of the game). He won rookie of the year playing Houdini in overcoming a defense that ranked 30th (minus Haynesworth for stepping on Gurode's face). Now that he has BETTER surroundings on offense - he's 7-2 and sporting much better passing numbers. And guess what MANY of those Jay Cutler fans are asking today? "Who does he have to throw to?" Why couldn't we allow that same question for Vince when it was appropriate?

 

Relating this scenario to us: I need to see SOME positives I can cling onto for Quinn but I'm coming up empty. I'm not feeling warm and fuzzy about Quinn mainly because he and agent don't want to stay for bargain prices. Another Tom Condon client that will stick his nose up in the air at the thought of a restructured contract for the good of the team. THAT was the type of nonsense that put Couch on my shit list. In reviewing this season, the ONLY game he had me feeling a good vibe was vrs the worst pass defense in pro football. Furthermore, his better throws that day were timing patterns to an area of the field off a 5-7 step drop instead of coming off reads. Earl, some guys never adjust their vision to the speed of the game at the NFL level. Charlie Frye's problem was never accuracy - it was reaction time to what he's seeing downfield. I don't think Quinn is as accurate but he prolly has the stronger arm of the 2 from what I've seen. I can't get the first INT out of my head from last week. KC's DB gave our WR a 15 yard cushion and Quinn overthrew the WR and hit that DB right between the numbers. Jimmy Johnson said the more that kid plays the less value he has in this league.

 

I know SOME people want more patience with Quinn but while we were trying to assure ourselves Couch was the RIGHT guy for the job - we missed out on the following QBs on our doorstep: Kurt Warner and Tom Brady. Even worse is that NOBODY in our managment researched a guy like McNabb for the 99 draft. I think we also had a chance to draft a QB in that draft Philip Rivers was drafted in because we were trying to assure oiurselves we had the right QB. We have to be careful with this kind of thing. The teams competing for a SB bid include the following QBs: Brett Favre, Philip Rivers, Donovan McNabb, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Kurt Warner, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Tony Romo. Some were instant successes - others took time. I haven't seen any hints from Quinn he's hading in this direction any time soon if I'm being honest.

 

I'm going to go back to what I felt before our 2007 draft - let's try to get a bargain like Troy Smith who would love to play in the city he grew up in. If a knucklehead like Mike Topmczak can start for 2 different playoff teams - I don't see why or how Troy Smith couldn't do the same but only better. John Harbaugh LOVED his 2008 camp and named him the starter on ESPN radio before Troy got sick with a serious throat infection that kept him out of football for a month and lost him 15-20 pounds.

- Tom F.

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FWIW, there's been a TON of fans that told me Vince Young wasn't anywhere near as good of a QB as Jay Cutler. I used to say I can't make a final conclusion when his best #1 WR is Drew Bennett and the other is journeyman Bobby Wade. Forgetting last night for 1 second, VY was 7-1 with the SAME roster Kerry Collins was 0-6 with because he now has talented options such as 1st round pick Kenny Britt, FA Nate Washington and Justin Gage when healthy. Not to mention, VY never started with Chris Johnson as the feature back. All people did was PRETEND VY didn't pull a hammy and injure his knee so they could quickly label him a bad QB. If Drew Brees seperates his passing shoulder - his #1 strength is lost and his performance is sure to slide - see brett Favre's arm at the end of 08. VY was college football's MOST ACCURATE passer in his junior (final) year because of what his legs setup for football's most forgoten attribute (VISION at the speed of the game). He won rookie of the year playing Houdini in overcoming a defense that ranked 30th (minus Haynesworth for stepping on Gurode's face). Now that he has BETTER surroundings on offense - he's 7-2 and sporting much better passing numbers. And guess what MANY of those Jay Cutler fans are asking today? "Who does he have to throw to?" Why couldn't we allow that same question for Vince when it was appropriate?

 

Relating this scenario to us: I need to see SOME positives I can cling onto for Quinn but I'm coming up empty. I'm not feeling warm and fuzzy about Quinn mainly because he and agent don't want to stay for bargain prices. Another Tom Condon client that will stick his nose up in the air at the thought of a restructured contract for the good of the team. THAT was the type of nonsense that put Couch on my shit list. In reviewing this season, the ONLY game he had me feeling a good vibe was vrs the worst pass defense in pro football. Furthermore, his better throws that day were timing patterns to an area of the field off a 5-7 step drop instead of coming off reads. Earl, some guys never adjust their vision to the speed of the game at the NFL level. Charlie Frye's problem was never accuracy - it was reaction time to what he's seeing downfield. I don't think Quinn is as accurate but he prolly has the stronger arm of the 2 from what I've seen. I can't get the first INT out of my head from last week. KC's DB gave our WR a 15 yard cushion and Quinn overthrew the WR and hit that DB right between the numbers. Jimmy Johnson said the more that kid plays the less value he has in this league.

 

I know SOME people want more patience with Quinn but while we were trying to assure ourselves Couch was the RIGHT guy for the job - we missed out on the following QBs on our doorstep: Kurt Warner and Tom Brady. Even worse is that NOBODY in our managment researched a guy like McNabb for the 99 draft. I think we also had a chance to draft a QB in that draft Philip Rivers was drafted in because we were trying to assure oiurselves we had the right QB. We have to be careful with this kind of thing. The teams competing for a SB bid include the following QBs: Brett Favre, Philip Rivers, Donovan McNabb, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Kurt Warner, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Tony Romo. Some were instant successes - others took time. I haven't seen any hints from Quinn he's hading in this direction any time soon if I'm being honest.

 

I'm going to go back to what I felt before our 2007 draft - let's try to get a bargain like Troy Smith who would love to play in the city he grew up in. If a knucklehead like Mike Topmczak can start for 2 different playoff teams - I don't see why or how Troy Smith couldn't do the same but only better. John Harbaugh LOVED his 2008 camp and named him the starter on ESPN radio before Troy got sick with a serious throat infection that kept him out of football for a month and lost him 15-20 pounds.

- Tom F.

 

Tom, I think you've done a nice analysis here. I think that when it comes to Vince Young, the guy just wins games. I think that people love to try and punch holes in his game but the bottom line is that the guy plays fast and can "see at the speed of the game". Vince's problem is going to be his contract next year which has many people wondering if they'll cut him.

 

I think that your sentence above about the SB contending QBs harkens me back to one debate I've had with my best friend for many years about QBs. I think that the QB position is one of those where we look at the forest and miss it through the trees. For instance, some guys are no-brainers in that they steal money (see Akili Smith). Others are no-brainers because they are so good (see Peyton Manning). The problem is these "tweener" guys. I can't really lump them into one group. NFL level QB play involves being able to make reads (pre-snap and post), understanding where your guys need to be, anticipating the window and then the physical part of throwing it with the right combination of touch and strength. There is also the leadership/lockerroom/gameplan component. I think that teams (like my friend's Dolphins) spend years trying to convince themselves that a marginal QB is good enough whereas they miss the point that if that guy is "good enough" he might just be "8-8 or 9-7" good. That was Jay Fiedler. Jay Fiedler did some things good and some things poorly. At the end of the day, however, he was not about to take a team deep into the playoffs. How long does taking a "project" QB to mature take? It seems like you can miss only once and by that point, the guy(s) who drafted him are gone. Furthermore, I think that when a QB is in year 3 and 4, there are some things that just should not be an issue.

 

Of course, there are applications of this with respect to the Browns' QB situation but threads on that topic abound.

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