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ESPN pure Mangini Hate


DAWGPOUND16

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Well I understand both arguments as to whether or not Mangini should stay. I personally believe he deserves another year because of the progress we have made. Yes we are still only 4-11 which isn't better than last years record, and wins against Oakland, Buffalo, and Kansas City are hardly anything to brag about.. But look at our divisional games..

 

We lost to Baltimore the first time we played them 34-3. The next time we played them we were still clearly outplayed, yet we only lost 16-0. We lost at Pittsburgh 27-14 the first time we played them, and beat them 13-6 in the second meeting. We lost to Cincinnati the first time 23-20 in OT, and 16-7 the second time around.. maybe this isnt seen as an improvement but the game was at Cincinnati and we kept it close.. So looking at the second half of the season as a whole, I would say that there has been a ton of improvement. Regardless as to who played at QB, we have improved over the course of this season which should award Mangini another year..

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Your citing of the 24/26 stats only serves to indicate that we were in fact a terribly untalented team last year. Yet even with that terrible roster had DA or BQ still been at QB for the last 4 games we would have ended up with 5 wins. This year other than Pittsburgh the Browns have been beating on bottom-feeders. We are a 4-11 team, a record that demonstrates we still suck. Sure we`re not the worst team in the NFL, but we`re no better than we were last year. Without Harrison and Cribbs, we really would be at the bottom of the barrel. We`ve already reached our ceiling under Mangini. Just like when he was with the NYJ, the best we`ll become under him is a mediocre, 8-8 team that only makes the playoffs if it gets lucky.

 

Other negative points of Mangini is that he is a terribe play-caller and game-manager, utterly fails at making in-game adjustments, and is completely unable to work with other people. Holmgren`s vision of a consensus-based team essentially precludes Mangini from being in the picture.

 

 

Why do you count Pittsburgh as a good team, but the other teams as bottom feeders? If I recall correctly, didn't both Oakland and Kansas City beat Pittsburgh? If anything, we beat all bottom-feeders. But we're a hell of a lot better than we were last year, and if you don't see that, you're a fool.

 

Since you're so adept at predicting the future, tell me - what's our record going to be next year if we keep Mangini? Also, what will be the Powerball numbers for next Saturday?

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I answered this dismissive line of logic in another thread. It hasn't been all Harrison. The offensive line has been amazing in this run . . . and most will tell you that an offensive line needs to play together for a while to jell as a unit.

 

I agree with you on the most part, but our Offensive Lines have been creating holes (at-times) since we've returned to the league. It's just that we haven't had a back hit them quick/hard enough before they closed.

 

Same as everyone calling for the O-lines head in the first 10 quarters of play this season. in steps another QB and all of a sudden the O-line isn't giving up sacks no more.

 

Harrison is hitting the holes with precision timing and he's into the secondary. Jamal danced at the mouth of the hole.

 

I've had end zone seats since 1999, and I can tell you that each year we opened holes, but besides Jamal's running with attitude and hitting them hard in 2007, and this year, we haven't had a back come close to exploiting the holes (no matter how big or small).

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I agree with you on the most part, but our Offensive Lines have been creating holes (at-times) since we've returned to the league. It's just that we haven't had a back hit them quick/hard enough before they closed.

 

Same as everyone calling for the O-lines head in the first 10 quarters of play this season. in steps another QB and all of a sudden the O-line isn't giving up sacks no more.

 

Harrison is hitting the holes with precision timing and he's into the secondary. Jamal danced at the mouth of the hole.

 

I've had end zone seats since 1999, and I can tell you that each year we opened holes, but besides Jamal's running with attitude and hitting them hard in 2007, and this year, we haven't had a back come close to exploiting the holes (no matter how big or small).

 

 

The O-line's been looking good to me, and what's even better is that Mangini has the team playing hard at the end of a season when there's nothing but pride left to play for. I don't know if Mangini is the guy or not, but I think he needs to stay in place for at least another year. One season doesn't prove anything, and it looks like my Brownies are improving.

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Your citing of the 24/26 stats only serves to indicate that we were in fact a terribly untalented team last year. Yet even with that terrible roster had DA or BQ still been at QB for the last 4 games we would have ended up with 5 wins. This year other than Pittsburgh the Browns have been beating on bottom-feeders. We are a 4-11 team, a record that demonstrates we still suck. Sure we`re not the worst team in the NFL, but we`re no better than we were last year. Without Harrison and Cribbs, we really would be at the bottom of the barrel. We`ve already reached our ceiling under Mangini. Just like when he was with the NYJ, the best we`ll become under him is a mediocre, 8-8 team that only makes the playoffs if it gets lucky.

 

Other negative points of Mangini is that he is a terribe play-caller and game-manager, utterly fails at making in-game adjustments, and is completely unable to work with other people. Holmgren`s vision of a consensus-based team essentially precludes Mangini from being in the picture.

Who cares where we'd be without Harrison or Cribbs. Guess what? They're Browns, so we get to include their contributions to our wins! Ask the Colts where they'd be without Manning and Wayne and you wouldn't see a 14-1 team either.

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Your citing of the 24/26 stats only serves to indicate that we were in fact a terribly untalented team last year. Yet even with that terrible roster had DA or BQ still been at QB for the last 4 games we would have ended up with 5 wins. This year other than Pittsburgh the Browns have been beating on bottom-feeders. We are a 4-11 team, a record that demonstrates we still suck. Sure we`re not the worst team in the NFL, but we`re no better than we were last year. Without Harrison and Cribbs, we really would be at the bottom of the barrel. We`ve already reached our ceiling under Mangini. Just like when he was with the NYJ, the best we`ll become under him is a mediocre, 8-8 team that only makes the playoffs if it gets lucky.

 

Other negative points of Mangini is that he is a terribe play-caller and game-manager, utterly fails at making in-game adjustments, and is completely unable to work with other people. Holmgren`s vision of a consensus-based team essentially precludes Mangini from being in the picture.

 

 

I've asked before but now I'm serious. Can we have a BS button put next to the "thank you" button?

 

 

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This will be the last time I answer the question as to why Harrison wasn't starting until recently.

 

 

You do not put a guy on the field who is going to make mistakes! It is better 100 out of 100 times to lose to a better team than to beat yourself with mistakes. Especially while installing a new system and rebuilding from the ground up. Harrison is good yes. But the fact that he wasn't playing, same as Robo, says more about the player than it does about Mangini. Not to mention Lewis is a leader in this team and you don't set examples by sitting your leaders for players who cannot block, catch, and fumble. The only time you make that move is when one guy is holding back an otherwise power-house team. When creating an identity and purging a bad envorinment, you don't make that move. These are the little things that effect culture, attitude,and identity of a team.

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I answered this dismissive line of logic in another thread. It hasn't been all Harrison. The offensive line has been amazing in this run . . . and most will tell you that an offensive line needs to play together for a while to jell as a unit. We had 170 yards plus against the #1 rush defense in the NFL (Pittsburgh) and Harrison hardly even contributed to that. In the historic game against the Chiefs, our offensive line had one of the most dominating performances I've ever seen. There were the proverbial holes that you could have driven a truck through. On one play I saw Mack knock down the first guy in his path and then drive a LBer 15 yards off the ball and into the end zone.

 

 

The offensive line didn't need to jell, they needed to be replaced. And they were, it's a different offensive line now. Without taking anything away from Jerome, he probably wouldn't have had as much success as of late if we hadn't changed our offensive line before the Kansas City game. If you'll notice, instead of the usual Hank Fraley and John St. Clair on the right side, for these past two games we've been starting Rex Hadnot and Floyd Womack. I don't believe they are the prime reason our rushing attack has been so good as of late, I think many things factor into it- i.e. the quality of teams we're playing, the weather, the "surprise" factor, Harrison playing for a starting position next year.

 

I like Hank Fraley, he's a great utility lineman. He can fill in anywhere he is needed, and that's an admirable quality. I'd rather have him in that utility role, but I also wouldn't absolutely hate if he was a starter next year. St. Clair, on the other hand, needs to go. He's absolutely abysmal, I honestly know I can do better than him, and I'm only 20. The right side of our offensive line has been a problem all year, mainly because of St. Clair. We had to bring in Greg Estandia, a 6'8" blocking TE, as well as run a number of Max Pro formations just to keep our QB alive. These last two games, however, QB pressure hasn't necessarily been a problem, and the running lanes have been WIDE open.

 

I think adding a quality RT in the draft would give us arguably one of the best offensive lines in the NFL. Joe Thomas is fantastic, for lack of a better word. Eric Steinbach is a little past his prime, but still serviceable. Alex Mack is going to be one of the best centers to play the game, of that I am certain. Either Womack, Hadnot or Fraley can be a passable guard. And I would love to see Russell Okung anchor the right side of the line for years to come.

 

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The offensive line didn't need to jell, they needed to be replaced. And they were, it's a different offensive line now. Without taking anything away from Jerome, he probably wouldn't have had as much success as of late if we hadn't changed our offensive line before the Kansas City game. If you'll notice, instead of the usual Hank Fraley and John St. Clair on the right side, for these past two games we've been starting Rex Hadnot and Floyd Womack. I don't believe they are the prime reason our rushing attack has been so good as of late, I think many things factor into it- i.e. the quality of teams we're playing, the weather, the "surprise" factor, Harrison playing for a starting position next year.

 

I like Hank Fraley, he's a great utility lineman. He can fill in anywhere he is needed, and that's an admirable quality. I'd rather have him in that utility role, but I also wouldn't absolutely hate if he was a starter next year. St. Clair, on the other hand, needs to go. He's absolutely abysmal, I honestly know I can do better than him, and I'm only 20. The right side of our offensive line has been a problem all year, mainly because of St. Clair. We had to bring in Greg Estandia, a 6'8" blocking TE, as well as run a number of Max Pro formations just to keep our QB alive. These last two games, however, QB pressure hasn't necessarily been a problem, and the running lanes have been WIDE open.

 

I think adding a quality RT in the draft would give us arguably one of the best offensive lines in the NFL. Joe Thomas is fantastic, for lack of a better word. Eric Steinbach is a little past his prime, but still serviceable. Alex Mack is going to be one of the best centers to play the game, of that I am certain. Either Womack, Hadnot or Fraley can be a passable guard. And I would love to see Russell Okung anchor the right side of the line for years to come.

 

I'm not completely disagreeing with you. St. Clair as been terrible. But I think we went out during the Steelers game when our run game was already clicking.

 

Hadnot did not replace HF during the Chiefs game -- they rotated. Fraley took more snaps. In fact, here is a synopsis from OBR that was on point:

 

The Browns offensive line is a different beast with Hank Fraley in the lineup at the right guard position. Everyone plays better and it is no coincidence that rookie center Alex Mack played his best game of the year with Fraley lined up beside him. Equally as important was moving Floyd Womack from right guard to right tackle. This unit was exceptionally mobile and they were blocking 20 yards down the field play after play. It was hard to take your eyes off the great runs but if you are a fan of offensive line play, last weeks contest is well worth replaying as it was classic.

 

It's been the guards in combination with Mack that have most impressed me. Steinbach seemed to be reborn since the Pitt game. I think a big part of this has been maturation of Mack and playing with these guards. For KC, it didn't hurt that they were an undersized team.

 

 

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I'm not completely disagreeing with you. St. Clair as been terrible. But I think we went out during the Steelers game when our run game was already clicking.

 

Hadnot did not replace HF during the Chiefs game -- they rotated. Fraley took more snaps. In fact, here is a synopsis from OBR that was on point:

 

The Browns offensive line is a different beast with Hank Fraley in the lineup at the right guard position. Everyone plays better and it is no coincidence that rookie center Alex Mack played his best game of the year with Fraley lined up beside him. Equally as important was moving Floyd Womack from right guard to right tackle. This unit was exceptionally mobile and they were blocking 20 yards down the field play after play. It was hard to take your eyes off the great runs but if you are a fan of offensive line play, last weeks contest is well worth replaying as it was classic.

 

It's been the guards in combination with Mack that have most impressed me. Steinbach seemed to be reborn since the Pitt game. I think a big part of this has been maturation of Mack and playing with these guards. For KC, it didn't hurt that they were an undersized team.

 

 

I thought he replaced him, it seemed like every time I looked it was Rex, not Hank. But I wasn't focusing my entire attention on the right guard position, either. I like Hank Fraley, and the idea of rotating him and Rex is pretty good, IMO.

 

Steinbach used to be so good, but the beginning of this year was terrible for him. I've always been a fan, his was the first Browns jersey I bought with my own money, but after the Baltimore game at home, I was actually hoping he would wind up on the bench. I think the only reason he wasn't benched is because Joe Thomas was particularly adept at picking up his slack as well as handling his own man. These last couple games have been great for him, though. And I can't say enough about Mack, the kid is special. I'm investing in a Mack jersey next. He'll be one of the great centers, assuming he doesn't go the way of LeCharles Bentley.

 

I think we're in agreeance on St. Clair, though. He was horrible, and he was bringing the entire unit down. You're only as strong as your weakest link.

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We`ve already reached our ceiling under Mangini. Just like when he was with the NYJ, the best we`ll become under him is a mediocre, 8-8 team that only makes the playoffs if it gets lucky.

 

Other negative points of Mangini is that he is a terribe play-caller and game-manager, utterly fails at making in-game adjustments, and is completely unable to work with other people. Holmgren`s vision of a consensus-based team essentially precludes Mangini from being in the picture.

 

8-8? He was over .500 two out of three years.

 

Terrible playcaller and game manager? You realize that most of the plays are called by his assistants, don't you? Mangini is no worse at game-management than anyone else. To the contrary, I think he's too much of a game-manager.

 

Holmgren's vision and Mangini's continued employment are not mutually exclusive if you bothered to listen to his presser yesterday.

 

Don't let the details get in the way.

 

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Earl, will you at least concede that Mangini doesn't have a reputation for being a great gameday coach? I don't think he's done much this year to dispel that notion, especially considering how bad we were for most of the season.

 

I thought that last year he was very good through the first 11 games (duh). This year has been less than great. To me it would seem uncharacteristic but I guess it always seems that way until it's the norm.

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Your citing of the 24/26 stats only serves to indicate that we were in fact a terribly untalented team last year. Yet even with that terrible roster had DA or BQ still been at QB for the last 4 games we would have ended up with 5 wins. This year other than Pittsburgh the Browns have been beating on bottom-feeders. We are a 4-11 team, a record that demonstrates we still suck. Sure we`re not the worst team in the NFL, but we`re no better than we were last year. Without Harrison and Cribbs, we really would be at the bottom of the barrel. We`ve already reached our ceiling under Mangini. Just like when he was with the NYJ, the best we`ll become under him is a mediocre, 8-8 team that only makes the playoffs if it gets lucky.

 

Other negative points of Mangini is that he is a terribe play-caller and game-manager, utterly fails at making in-game adjustments, and is completely unable to work with other people. Holmgren`s vision of a consensus-based team essentially precludes Mangini from being in the picture.

 

Gayest post ever.

 

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