Does Mangini really deserve another season?

[Westside Steve]

Of course they are playing for pride and their jobs. It's what I said when when people all over Mangini that the team had quit on him. Now that they are playing hard people are finding a new way to criticize Mangini.

 

Exactly.

At this point every player in the league not on his way to the playoffs should think about his job and his self respect.

If they don't care, they suck and I want someone else at the position.

These newer guys are Mangini's guys and if they play hard for him and continue to learn and improve then great.

 

Lewis quit because Lewis was washed up. Pure and simple. He used the practice regimen as an excuse.

That isn't a good example for any team captain to show the rookies and I'm glad to see guys with that attitude gone..

 

WSS

[mopaji]

Mr. Banks, you have done it again. BRAVO!! You need you're own web-site or at least take Grossi's job.

 

Excellent observations on Harrison and Robo. People think these players were this good all along and were just over-looked. It never occurs to some people that they were being coached up and got playing time when they were prepared/earned it! Lewis and Jennings were getting more touches because, they don't put the ball on the floor and are better blockers. Which leads me to my next point. Holmgren has got to see what Mangini has done, and is doing with this team across the board. I feel like if he fires Mangini it would all be based on him wanting his own guys in here for the sake of ego. And that would really, really concern me.

[Chip Banks]

I just heard the Walrus on the radio, it sounded like he is leaning towards letting Mangini go.

 

That's funny. I heard the same thing and drew the opposite conclusion.

 

At the very beginning it sounded like Holmgren was saying that he would fire Mangini. He said making an announcement now wouldn't be fair to Eric, since he was at the end of his first season and the team was clearly responding to him.

 

Then, as the conversation went on, he started referencing Mangini specifically when talking about decisions regarding other aspects of the team going forward. I thought it was telling when he said something like "both Eric and I want the same thing for this team" and "I think Eric likes some of the young players that he has on this roster and believes that he can build with them." Why would he say that if he's leaning towards canning Mangini? In fact, from the second half of the interview on, I thought Walrus's statements clearly suggested that he was thinking of the Browns going forward with Mangini as a key component. It surprised me.

 

The question about the schemes was interesting. It sounded like he does want the WCO or elements of it in his offense. He talked about "convincing the coach" and suggested that he would collaborate with the coach as opposed to directing him. He said several times that he will not be a "coach on the field", and that its his job to "help the coach succeed", which I also thought was interesting.

 

I think a lot will depend on Walrus's "sit down" with Mangini next Monday. My guess is that if he and Mangini come to a meeting of the minds that will include bringing in a strong offensive coordinator and setting guidelines with respect to roles between Walrus his OC and Mangini, Mangini will get a chance to continue as head coach. Pure speculation, but I'd think that that would mean we'll transition our offense next season, but will retain a 3-4, keeping Mangini and Ryan.

 

I also read between the lines that he doesn't think much of Quinn. After a question about Quinn, he re-directed by saying that Anderson had a good game against the 'hawks a couple years back and that he really knew more of Quinn from college (without saying anything positive).

 

When asked a question, Holmgren said he doesn't want to blow up this roster. To me, I think we'd have to to go to a 4-3 considering our lack of DEs and 4-3 LBers. I think you can walk this line. Our biggest needs on D are corner and safety who are not scheme dependent. Add an ILB who is equally suited for the 3-4 and 4-3 and you can draft for the future and not worry too much about setting back the defense.

 

My conclusion was that if Holmgren and Mangini can agree on Holmgren's vision going forward, he'll keep Mangini. I also think that he want to be very careful to let people believe that it was a very deliberate decision and not something Lerner told him to do.

 

That's my take.

 

[mopaji]

Thanks again Banks, one issue I have though. Its about the WCO. It seems to me that almost every team in the league runs some version of the west coast offense. Here's why....

 

TEs now need to be able to block and catch in this league

RBs now need to be strong in all 3 phases, run, block, and catch.

Outside of number 1 WRs, they are all required to catch passes underneath the zone and run after the catch.

 

I feel like all the WCO offense was, they started utilizing the RBs and TEs more. And the passing game befoer Walsh was used for 15 yards or more and now teams look underneath all the time. With all of that said, Mangini already has a lot of elements of the WCO in place now. In fact, almost all teams run a Hybrid offense. There is almost no pure Run&Shoot, WCO, or No Huddle in the league. Each team is a mixture of all of those things. The strength of OCs now is play-calling more than philosophy. So, there should be no problem between Mangini and Holmgren regarding philosophy. Plus, I don't think Holmgren will get too involved in the scheme anyways. Like he said, he's a tie-breaker. Finally, how successful was Holmgren's offense once Alexander went downhill? It seems like Holmgren may be the one who may need to conform rather than Mangini.

 

What do you think?

 

[Chip Banks]

What do you think?

I think you are right in many respects. Most of the more sophisticated NFL offenses blend aspects of different offensive systems, including the WCO. New England and to a lesser degree Pitt run an Air-Erhardt type offense that concentrates on spreading the field horizontally using WCO-type concepts. The offense that the Vikings run is more similar than dissimilar to this. In Rothlisberger, Brady and Favre, you have three incredibly accurate QBs that can spread the field horizontally, isolate mismatches in coverage, and then go over the top. They can pass to set up the pass.

 

The Eagles under Reid/Morningweig are probably the most extreme example of a team that passes horizontally to set up the vertical pass.

 

Holmgren said not to label his offense a "coast" offense -- that it too was a blending.

 

The Jets run a more traditional Perkins-Erhardt offense, which we've gravitated towards as the season has progressed. It's fundamentally much different from a WCO in that we have several single receiver formations using Cribbs where we bunch the field. WCO systems, you will not see that.

 

What I think is different about the root philosophy is that Holmgren will want to spread the field horizontally with formations most if not all the time. If Mangini had his druthers, I'd guess you'd see more bunch formations and power football . . . especially in December.

 

I think from the center of our offense line out left and Womack will be fine for Holgren's WCO. Vickers is probably an ideal WCO fullback. Our backs (Harrison/Davis) will probably be serviceable at worst. I doubt either of our QBs is accurate enough to be successful in the WCO, though. Dez White all of a sudden would become a real possibility with the #5-7 pick. Evan Moore has a chance. A 3rd round draft pick like Dennis Pitta, though, seems likely.

[redright88]

The question is does Mangina want to stay. He will have tp answer to Holmgren and a new GM. Manginna will give up his power of calling all the shots.

Regardless if he deserves to stay or not...Holmgren should get his people in place to make the Org. run smoother.

 

[peterbell]

The question is does Mangina want to stay. He will have tp answer to Holmgren and a new GM. Manginna will give up his power of calling all the shots.

Regardless if he deserves to stay or not...Holmgren should get his people in place to make the Org. run smoother.

 

Your first post you come out disrespecting the coach..STOP..His name is Mangini,,whether you want him fired is of course your opinion..but spell his name correctly and not with a sexist ending..