This is a Call

[mopaji]

I cannot stand it anymore I need to address all of the Mangini haters favorite BS reasons why he sucks. In no particular order

 

 

1. We sucked at the beginning of the year

 

FACT: This is what rebuilding looks like. The reason the product looks worse than any other Browns "coach" is because he is doing it correctly. He's not putting a band-aid on it to save his job for one more year and cashing out. He's taking on the hardest parts first. It takes balls, smarts, and it working. It took 12 games to catch on but that was expected by anyone who knew anything about anything.

 

2. Mishandled the QB situation.

 

FACT: That's what it looks like when you have two bad QBs in camp and the owner forces one on you and against your better judgement, you start said QB. Both of them have now had ample time to prove their suckiness, and we know what we have in Quinn. Its the same as what we have in DA.

 

3. He let players like Robo and Harrison to sit behind less talented players. He can't evaluate talent.

 

FACT: When rebuilding and installing a culture, you go with the players the rest of the team respects. You get them on your side, you win the team over. Cribbs and Lewis, two clear examples. You couple that with the fact that Harrison fumbles, misses blocks, and drops passes, and you have your decision made for you. Put in the proven vets who won't hurt your team with mistakes. PS. Robo dropped a lot of balls in camp. When you're a rookie, you don't get the benefit of the doubt. Better to put Cribbs in and let him try and make some plays. Even if the decisions do not work, your players know that you have the best interest of the team in mind. So, you bite the bullet and set the example. Again, takes lots of courage.

 

4. Botched our 2nd round picks. This one is great because it started as "botched our entire draft". Now, since Mack is coming along very, very nicely it has evolved to "2nd round picks".

 

FACT: Rookie LBs have a tough time transitioning to the 3-4. In a perfect situation they wouldn't play one snap their first year. Nobody will know anything about the Maiva until next year. But he has shown he has ability. Now he just needs to play with instinct. MoMass will be a bonified #1 WR and the fact that he is as good as he is in his rookie year as the #1 is AMAZING! he is starting to garner a little extra attention out there already. This is incredibly encouraging. I can't stress enough how great that is. Robo is the only question mark but has all of the tools to be a great #2.

 

5. Brought in washed up Jets players

 

FACT: Elam, young and tough as hell. Its hard to see on TV but he spends a lot of his time baby-sitting the CBs. Needs to cover a lot of field a lot of the time. He is being asked to do a lot and is still one of the most promising young players in the league. Coleman, you've seen what he can do. Barton and Bowens, invaluable knowledge, consistant, and respected by teamates. Not going to Canton but when you're rebuilding, these guys are ideal. Stuckey, very young and will be the ideal slot guy for the next 12 years. Solid, solid player.

 

6. players hate him

 

FACT: Romeo's guys don't like him because they are spoiled little kids. Rookies and Jets guys who voluntarily came to play for him, like and respect him a great deal. RACs guys are mostly xxxx's

 

I'm sure I'll catch a lot of shit for this. But what I wrote is accurate. Its the cliff's notes version but its accurate. Step back, reevaluate the situation and tell me you don't like what Mangini has done. I couldn't be happier considering the shit heap he walked into.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

MoMass will be a bonified #1 WR

 

No. Not even close.

 

Stuckey, very young and will be the ideal slot guy for the next 12 years. Solid, solid player.

 

Swing and a miss, strike two.

 

 

 

Everything else seems to be pretty much accurate, though. Of course, you're going to get a shit ton of hate thrown your way by those who blindly hate Mangini and listen to nothing. Mangini has built a foundation, and that's the number one most important step in building a franchise. It's very unlikely that a coach inherits a bad team and turns them around that first season. Patience, that's all it comes down to.

[kosar_win]

You couple that with the fact that Harrison fumbles, misses blocks, and drops passes, and you have your decision made for you.

 

Also, you may have forgotten that before the KC game, many people on this board claimed that Harrison was not an every back down and was only good as a change-of-pace back at best. He is now forcing us all to reconsider this opinion.

[vdogrowz]

Great post Mopaji, I would just edit #5 for my personal favorite. Just add "traded all of our best young developing talent" or "traded all of our young playmakers" to "for washed up Jets players". Also there was the ever popular "We could have had Sanchez as our starting QB but traded down for a lousy center", that went with the "We got fooked by the Jets on both trades bigtime". Not hearing these as much anymore, but don't worry, Florio and ESPN will come up with new reasons the latest and greatest being "3 or 4 wins mean nothing, you have to judge the season in it's entirety". Mangini + Holmgren = playoffs quicker than the haters could imagine

[Gips]

2. Mishandled the QB situation.

 

FACT: That's what it looks like when you have two bad QBs in camp and the owner forces one on you and against your better judgement, you start said QB. Both of them have now had ample time to prove their suckiness, and we know what we have in Quinn. Its the same as what we have in DA.

 

5. Brought in washed up Jets players

 

FACT: Elam, young and tough as hell. Its hard to see on TV but he spends a lot of his time baby-sitting the CBs. Needs to cover a lot of field a lot of the time. He is being asked to do a lot and is still one of the most promising young players in the league. Coleman, you've seen what he can do. Barton and Bowens, invaluable knowledge, consistant, and respected by teamates. Not going to Canton but when you're rebuilding, these guys are ideal. Stuckey, very young and will be the ideal slot guy for the next 12 years. Solid, solid player.

 

 

I can agree with most of your reasoning but saying randy forced quinn on mangini most likely isnt the case even holmgren didnt like the juggling act ,it was a very stupid move that made mangini look and sound like an idiot in defense of his decision and it was foolishly unpopular amonst fans it netted us nothing but mangini hate..and yes early on mangini brought crap in from the jets to replace crap that was already here resulting in a very slight upgrade ,elam is tough but not a very talented safety...later with stucky and trussleneck in trade for BE he more than made his early jets error up..

 

Now with that said i will say i didnt like mangini because he was an arrogant bastard that was a liar by saying he was accountable and then deflecting blame on anyone except himself and having 2 different philosophies one for his staff and one for the players ,this seems to be gone now as does the "i am smarter than you stupid fans" lying presser crap that really made me and probably many others dislike him as a human being more than as a coach..

 

I like the real mangini a more humble more honest and open with the fans eric mangini ive seen since after the bye week instead of the stupid secret agent dickhead version that was to arrogant to account for what appeared to be idiot coaching moves..he is human afterall and not just another moron...

 

At this point im hoping we keep him but we will need a very smart guy at OC daboll has to go...after hearing holmgren speak i now believe mangini is right and its possible we will see a hybrid offense under holmgren/unnamed GM/mangini..one that is a mix between the WCO and ECO that will be very exciting and brutal but i cant emphasize enough that we need a real genius OC not the dumbass we currently have...

[lodilobo]

 

 

Now with that said i will say i didnt like mangini because he was an arrogant bastard that was a liar by saying he was accountable and then deflecting blame on anyone except himself and having 2 different philosophies one for his staff and one for the players ,this seems to be gone now as does the "i am smarter than you stupid fans" lying presser crap that really made me and probably many others dislike him as a human being more than as a coach..

Man....you must have really hated Belichik.....and Butch Davis, now that I think about it.

[hoorta]

I cannot stand it anymore I need to address all of the Mangini haters favorite BS reasons why he sucks. In no particular order

 

 

2. Mishandled the QB situation.

 

FACT: That's what it looks like when you have two bad QBs in camp and the owner forces one on you and against your better judgement, you start said QB. Both of them have now had ample time to prove their suckiness, and we know what we have in Quinn. Its the same as what we have in DA.

 

3. He let players like Robo and Harrison to sit behind less talented players. He can't evaluate talent.

 

FACT: When rebuilding and installing a culture, you go with the players the rest of the team respects. You get them on your side, you win the team over. Cribbs and Lewis, two clear examples. You couple that with the fact that Harrison fumbles, misses blocks, and drops passes, and you have your decision made for you.

 

I'll say based on what I've seen in the last couple of games, Mangini does deserve another year.

 

BUT.

 

2) I'll disagree that the book is totally written on Quinn. He needs a complete season to prove he's beyond hope. EM did mishandle the qb situation, and lied about it. Gave Quinn the quick hook, and stubbornly stuck with Anderson- even after DA was on pace to set the all time record for lowest QB rating in NFL history. DA has proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that he needs to be cut before his roster bonus kicks in. Yes Eric, the rest of the NFL WAS laughing at you over that one.

 

3) In Mangini's defense Romeo couldn't evaluate Harrison either. BTW, Fumbles? 1 per 80 attempts. FYI Adrian Peterson drops the rock 1 per 50 attempts. Harrison's got AP beat in ypc too. Yeah, Harrison's had trouble in blitz pickup, so ya think genius Dumb-bol might keep Vickers in to block? seems it only took him 10 games to figure that one out. Lewis going on IR was the best thing to happen to the Browns offense. & who was bitching about Mangini's practices being too tough?

[mopaji]

I can agree with most of your reasoning but saying randy forced quinn on mangini most likely isnt the case even holmgren didnt like the juggling act ,it was a very stupid move that made mangini look and sound like an idiot

 

This does make sense on the surface but knowing Mangini as we know him, I cannot imagine that he had no clue who to start. He manages everything down to what time the vendors at the stadium can bring food past the locker room. I just cannot believe he didn't make a decision. It just looked like there was some behind-the-scenes pulling going on. I can't buy into the idea in this ONE case, he couldn't make a decision. Not to mention that if I were coach, I would pick DA. If I were owner, I would want Brady. It all just makes too much sense.

[mopaji]

I can agree with most of your reasoning but saying randy forced quinn on mangini most likely isnt the case even holmgren didnt like the juggling act ,it was a very stupid move that made mangini look and sound like an idiot in defense of his decision and it was foolishly unpopular amonst fans it netted us nothing but mangini hate..and yes early on mangini brought crap in from the jets to replace crap that was already here resulting in a very slight upgrade ,elam is tough but not a very talented safety...later with stucky and trussleneck in trade for BE he more than made his early jets error up..

 

Now with that said i will say i didnt like mangini because he was an arrogant bastard that was a liar by saying he was accountable and then deflecting blame on anyone except himself and having 2 different philosophies one for his staff and one for the players ,this seems to be gone now as does the "i am smarter than you stupid fans" lying presser crap that really made me and probably many others dislike him as a human being more than as a coach..

 

I like the real mangini a more humble more honest and open with the fans eric mangini ive seen since after the bye week instead of the stupid secret agent dickhead version that was to arrogant to account for what appeared to be idiot coaching moves..he is human afterall and not just another moron...

 

At this point im hoping we keep him but we will need a very smart guy at OC daboll has to go...after hearing holmgren speak i now believe mangini is right and its possible we will see a hybrid offense under holmgren/unnamed GM/mangini..one that is a mix between the WCO and ECO that will be very exciting and brutal but i cant emphasize enough that we need a real genius OC not the dumbass we currently have...

 

The OC may be the most over-rated coaching position in sports. It is basically a spring board job coaches use to help their friends move up in the ranks. Anyway, I think the fact that Mangini is so secret about internal business made him seem like an arrogant secret agent. The media started fabricating and embellishing information to make him look bad. By him not addressing these "rumors" it made him look like he was hiding. In hindsite, it was more like he wasn't going to address the stories because they were irrelavent. That's a media tactic. Slam them until they have to speak. Its like calling someone out for a fight. You talk about their mama until they have to swing. He didn't fall for it it made him look like an ass. Not the case. Its more that he is concentrated on fixing this team and nothing else. Entertaining the media's games isn't in his daily planner. I will never be against that.

[MudratDetector]

can somebody post a link to the story about mangini taking down all of the old browns stuff in the locker room because of the "new era"? my dad hates mangini solely on these grounds.

[mopaji]

can somebody post a link to the story about mangini taking down all of the old browns stuff in the locker room because of the "new era"? my dad hates mangini solely on these grounds.

 

 

That's an archaic perspective. I for one am in favor of a uniform change. All Brown with the "B" football logo on the helmets and sleeves. I'm in my 30's and have been watching this team religously since I was 6. I cried at the fumble and the drive. I remember when Slaughter went to Houston, I damn near jumped off the top bunk and ended it all. But I'm rational enough to welcome change. Especailly when young players come in and feel like they are in there Uncle's basement instead of an NFL facility. The environment permiates through the team and so I'm cool with the changes in decor. Hopefully, the unis are next!

[MudratDetector]

i hope that we go back to all-white uniforms, all of the time. the brown pants are god awful. we need to ditch the helmet as our logo and embrace the elf.

[lodilobo]

I'll say based on what I've seen in the last couple of games, Mangini does deserve another year.

 

BUT.

 

2) I'll disagree that the book is totally written on Quinn. He needs a complete season to probe he's beyond hope. EM did mishandle the qb situation, and lied about it. Gave Quinn the quick hook, and stubbornly stuck with Anderson- even after DA was on pace to set the all time record for lowest QB rating in NFL history. DA has proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that he needs to be cut before his roster bonus kicks in. Yes Eric, the rest of the NFL WAS laughing at you over that one.

 

3) In Mangini's defense Romeo couldn't evaluate Harrison either. BTW, Fumbles? 1 per 80 attempts. FYI Adrian Peters drops the rock 1 per 50 attempts. Harrison's got AP beat in ypc too. Yeah, Harrison's had trouble in blitz pickup, so ya think genius Dumb-bol might keep Vickers in to block? seems it only took him 10 games to figure that one out. Lewis going on IR was the best thing to happen to the Browns offense. & who was bitching about Mangini's practices being too tough?

No doubt...Mangini did mishandle the qb situation, and I didn't like it when he pulled Quinn after 2-1/2 games, but it's just as frustrating to watch Quinn miss on deep throws as it is to watch DA throw interceptions. I've changed my opinion numerous times on who the qb should be. I'm sure that DA is not the answer, but I'm starting to be convinced that Quinn is in the same category. As far as Harrison.....a lot of us have been asking why he doesn't get in the games more, for at least 2 years now. Even when Crennel was here......they would bring him in for one play, he would get 8 yards, then we wouldn't see him again. How can a coach see that, and not give him more playing time? I have all the respect in the world for Jamal Lewis, but there was a lot of time wasted.

[kosar_win]

I for one am in favor of a uniform change. All Brown with the "B" football logo on the helmets and sleeves.

 

I am against drastically changing the Browns uniforms. The Browns are the Yankees of football. Always have been. And like the Yankees' pinstripes, the Browns should always have a burnt orange helmet. Paul Brown did this because orange was easier for the QB to see than any other color.

 

i hope that we go back to all-white uniforms, all of the time. the brown pants are god awful. we need to ditch the helmet as our logo and embrace the elf.

 

The elf is not our logo any longer. It is dead and should stay there. We need to embrace our long-standing tradition as a great football organization (what the Cleveland Fans fought for after the Catastrophe in 1995).

 

Personally, I liked the uniforms best when Marty Schottenheimer was our coach. I almost wish he'd come back and carry us to his (and our) first SB appearance...

[VaporTrail]

I completely agree with the OP's comments about Mangini, but there is one thing about him that really bugged me. When we lost to the Detroit Lions, he bitched about the refs. You lost to the xxxxing lions. Just keep your mouth shut and move on. We may have gotten screwed, but you don't bitch about it to the media, it just makes you look like a whiner. I mean, we also didn't technically lose to the Bengals, but the refs on the field called it a field goal, and if they both said it's a field goal, then it's a field goal, if you can't review it, then you better forget about it as soon as you step off that field.

[hoorta]

I am against drastically changing the Browns uniforms. The Browns are the Yankees of football. Always have been. And like the Yankees' pinstripes, the Browns should always have a burnt orange helmet. Paul Brown did this because orange was easier for the QB to see than any other color.

 

 

 

The elf is not our logo any longer. It is dead and should stay there. We need to embrace our long-standing tradition as a great football organization (what the Cleveland Fans fought for after the Catastrophe in 1995).

 

Personally, I liked the uniforms best when Marty Schottenheimer was our coach. I almost wish he'd come back and carry us to his (and our) first SB appearance...

 

RE: The helmets- the Browns NOT having a logo on our helmet in and of itself makes it unique in the NFL. And Randy agrees, fortunately. Go ask Zombo if they should put a Nittany Lion (whatever that is) on Penn State's helmets.

 

Art Modell tried to kill the Elf, but he's far from dead. Making a serious comeback, in fact. As much a part of my generation as the DawgPound is of the younger one.

 

[mopaji]

RE: The helmets- the Browns NOT having a logo on our helmet in and of itself makes it unique in the NFL. And Randy agrees, fortunately. Go ask Zombo if they should put a Nittany Lion (whatever that is) on Penn State's helmets.

 

Art Modell tried to kill the Elf, but he's far from dead. Making a serious comeback, in fact. As much a part of my generation as the DawgPound is of the younger one.

 

 

I guess I can see that side of it. But I'm not hoping for a complete uniform change, just an alternate uni. If Seattle can play in those WTF-Green colors, than we can play two games a year with a "B" on our helmets. I just think that football "B" logo is still classy, old-fashioned, and subtle. Like the solid Orange except with a modern flair to it. More so than the Elf. That thing looks like an anime cartoon or something. The "B" is simple, classy, and strong. I'm digging it.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

No gay "B" on the helmet. I say get rid of the brown pants. Keep the traditional uniform. Screw change.

[MudratDetector]

I guess I can see that side of it. But I'm not hoping for a complete uniform change, just an alternate uni. If Seattle can play in those WTF-Green colors, than we can play two games a year with a "B" on our helmets. I just think that football "B" logo is still classy, old-fashioned, and subtle. Like the solid Orange except with a modern flair to it. More so than the Elf. That thing looks like an anime cartoon or something. The "B" is simple, classy, and strong. I'm digging it.

 

the elf is our oldest icon. do you even know the significance of the elf? europeans believe in a house elf, which they call a "brownie". the elf is much better icon than a bulldog or the letter B imo.

 

the helmets need to stay as they are and if anything, we need to go to all white and our only alternate should be our current, brown home jerseys. as far as the browns pants from this season go, in the words of my dad, "if they're gonna look like crap, they might as well play like crap"

[Kennel Club]

No gay "B" on the helmet. I say get rid of the brown pants. Keep the traditional uniform. Screw change.

 

What the man said!