mopaji Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 For those of you who think Holmgren will be going to a WCO I have some news for you. The WCO died with the advent of the 3-4 Defense and LBs running 4.5 40's. You no longer get those mismatches with TEs and RBs out of the backfield. Therefore, a true WCO no longer exists. And it will NEVER work in this division. So, the idea that Holmgren may want to go WCO and so naturally Mangini is gone, is almost impossible. Offenses are all hybrids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 hell, daboll may have it in the playbook, we've just not seen it due to a lack of WRs/QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kosar_win Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 The WCO died with the advent of the 3-4 Defense You mean the resurrection of the 3-4 Defense. Don't forget that the famed '72 Dolphins used this defensive scheme to go undefeated and win the Super Bowl. It's true that the 3-4 went out of style somewhere in the late 80s or 90s and returned largely because of its flexibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopaji Posted December 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 You mean the resurrection of the 3-4 Defense. Don't forget that the famed '72 Dolphins used this defensive scheme to go undefeated and win the Super Bowl. It's true that the 3-4 went out of style somewhere in the late 80s or 90s and returned largely because of its flexibility. True Dat!!!! I guess I should have said "when the 3-4 became prevelant in the NFL" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gips Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 If holmgren keeps the genie i think we will see a hybrid offense so to speak one that MH and EM can agree to and hopefully one that will take full advantage of our team strengths and appease the fans...either way we should dump daboll and get an offensive guru at OC... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erie Dawg Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 The WCO died with the advent of the 3-4 Defense and LBs running 4.5 40's. You no longer get those mismatches with TEs and RBs out of the backfield. Therefore, a true WCO no longer exists. And it will NEVER work in this division. Offenses are all hybrids. Seems to work beautifully for the eagles and pats, so why say its dead because of the 3-4? The basics of the wco uses short, high-percentage passes as the core of a ball-control offense. If you actually think about it, lots of teams use this style of offence. If you remember the raiders when Rich Gannon ran that offence it was a thing of beauty watching him throw the ball. The 3-4 was alive and strong just a few years ago wasn't it? So basically every thing you said is BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopaji Posted December 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 Seems to work beautifully for the eagles and pats, so why say its dead because of the 3-4? The basics of the wco uses short, high-percentage passes as the core of a ball-control offense. If you actually think about it, lots of teams use this style of offence. If you remember the raiders when Rich Gannon ran that offence it was a thing of beauty watching him throw the ball. The 3-4 was alive and strong just a few years ago wasn't it? So basically every thing you said is BS. Absolutely true except neither the Eagles, Pats, or the Raiders run a pure WCO. Philly may be the closest but they are much more vertical than a traditional WCO. My argument was based on people assuming that Mangini and Holmgren cannot coexist because of differences in offensive philosophies. Completely wrong for all of the reasons that I mentioned. There is no such thing as a pure WCO. Every succesful offense uses elements from different systems. Which is why a clash in philosophy will not be a reason to fire the coach. Its just wishful thinking on ESPN's part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osusev Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 Seems to work beautifully for the eagles and pats, so why say its dead because of the 3-4? The basics of the wco uses short, high-percentage passes as the core of a ball-control offense. If you actually think about it, lots of teams use this style of offence. If you remember the raiders when Rich Gannon ran that offence it was a thing of beauty watching him throw the ball. The 3-4 was alive and strong just a few years ago wasn't it? So basically every thing you said is BS. short efficient passing is important and used by ALL nfl offesive schemes......... That does not mean the pure WCO applies..... You are forgetting the rule adjustments that are slanted toward downfield passing for more scoring have changed offensive schemes along with hybrid defensive players that can cover and stuff the run along with run horizontally just as fast as running backs and recievers..... the short game is predicated now on the threat to pass mid to deep..... offensive schemes now are changed and customized on a game by game basis..... Donavan Mcnabb and Tom Brady can deliver a highly accurate 15-30 yard bullet which loosens up with underneath check downs and short quick passing game....... The other thing we were missing on the ball control side was a consistent run game.. something we lacked in 2008 that we had in 2007 and in the last 2 games we have most definately shown.... So no it was not bs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keylime Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 works in Philly, GB, Seattle under Mike, etc. Players make an offense good, not the scheme - but the scheme can maximize the effectiveness of a team's talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 Steelers have been running a 3-4 since 1982. Not sure what that has to do with the WCO which started with the Bengals in the 1970's and is alive and well today in places like Philly. All offenses are hybrids, and all are contstantly evolving. "WCO" is just a label and all these guys, Holmgren, Childress, Reid, etc. have their own variations. I think Holmgren will keep Mangini and bring a OC like Weis to run the offense. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osusev Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 I like Charlie weis as a offensive coordinator, IF that happens Brady definately is not going ANYWHERE regardless if the offense burns down around him.... or maybe Charlie and Brady may be the right NFL combination fo us...... I never liked charlie as a head coach but watching a lot of ND games this year where he was running the offense..... I like him in that position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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