Flugel Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Folks, Happy New Year! I need to preface what I'm about to ask of you with I'm just as sick of drafting QBs high in round 1 as the next Dawg. Hence, my Troy Smith hope tyhat many others might cringe at. It seems like we're winning our way out of opportunities for a man named Suh; but he's gonna be worth alot more cake than Johnny's Cash ever made in 1 calendar year. I think it also means bye bye to chances at getting Berry - CRAP!!!!!! We STILL might have a shot at Golden's Tate, who grew up a rock's throw from your buddy Flugel's current crib. Round 1 WRs are hit or miss like when Savage told us Braylon was the SAFEST pick at #3 overall and see Matt Millen's tenure in Detriot. This is gonna require your participation. We're gonna go Dial-A-GM here with this thread and give you the call. Understanding all of what was said above, along with our current sum of 11 picks and countless fans that don't share my pom poms for Troy Smith - let's put you in the position of being in charge of rectifying the QB position THIS year either through free agency, trade or pick of the litter where we draft. I'm interested in seeing the scenarios our brain trust on this board can come up with. Run it folks! - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 I don't know who is going to be the QB of this team next year. My only hope is that we don't take a QB in round 1. We need impact players and I don't think a QB is the guy we need. Other teams have shown that they can win with Qb's taken in later rounds...we just need to find a guy like that or go with Quinn and Anderson again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgTracker Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Are there any GM candidates who are not already involved with the draft process for another team? I would think that it would be difficult to get someone valuable to an organization's draft until after the draft. I think we are out of the suh sweepstakes. After someone showed some lowlights of berry I lost some interest. There is another defensive lineman from Texas I believe who is considered a top 10 pick. I don't think there is a safety who screams "Take me at #5" But we could go CB, Running Back, QB. We could drop down and go Right Guard or Right Tackle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
next2nothing Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Is Gerald McCoy (DT, OU) worthy of a top 5 pick? What about trading down and picking up a O-lineman? I think there are a lot of ways we can go but I have a gut feeling we will end up taking the BPA with our first pick which will most likely be Berry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faninthehammer Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 i am interested in the argument against Berry at #5? I don't think he will be available by that point and would be overjoyed if we could get our hands on him. The next best option IMHO is to trade down and try to find get a Tackle or Stud Gaurd for the right side of the line. I know D is an area of need but unless the DB/Safety prospect is a complete stud, we should wait until second or third to source one out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 You never know who's gonna pop up in the combine, so I think it's useless to try and project who the first overall will be at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lodilobo Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Folks, Happy New Year! I need to preface what I'm about to ask of you with I'm just as sick of drafting QBs high in round 1 as the next Dawg. Hence, my Troy Smith hope tyhat many others might cringe at. It seems like we're winning our way out of opportunities for a man named Suh; but he's gonna be worth alot more cake than Johnny's Cash ever made in 1 calendar year. I think it also means bye bye to chances at getting Berry - CRAP!!!!!! We STILL might have a shot at Golden's Tate, who grew up a rock's throw from your buddy Flugel's current crib. Round 1 WRs are hit or miss like when Savage told us Braylon was the SAFEST pick at #3 overall and see Matt Millen's tenure in Detriot. This is gonna require your participation. We're gonna go Dial-A-GM here with this thread and give you the call. Understanding all of what was said above, along with our current sum of 11 picks and countless fans that don't share my pom poms for Troy Smith - let's put you in the position of being in charge of rectifying the QB position THIS year either through free agency, trade or pick of the litter where we draft. I'm interested in seeing the scenarios our brain trust on this board can come up with. Run it folks! - Tom F. I would not be interested in Troy Smith, but there are some other veterans that will be available. The concern you have for losing position in the first round, doesn't bother me. There ia such a risk, in my opinion, with #1 picks, I would rather not have the first pick. I'm confident that Holmgren and whoever else, will get a decent defensive player with our first pick. I would send DA packing, keep BQ....maybe just through training camp, to see if he is continuing to improve, pick up a decent FA if possible, for 1 year ( maybe Garcia or Hasselback) and draft a stomg arm, intelligent qb out of a smaller program that can be developed. Maybe in the 4th, fifth, or sixth round. Quinn and the rookie could compete for the back up job. Mangini would stay as HC until he proves to be a liability. Some of you say he already has proven that.....I don't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faninthehammer Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Do you think GM's put as much emphasis on the combine as the regular season when it comes to top ten picks. I don't believe the top prospects will move more than a couple of spots based on combine results unless there are some unforeseen injuries that pop up. The GM's have done their diligence and already have a good idea of who has the right attitude and where their program fits into the big scheme of rankings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 I don't worry about QB until I have invested in the O-line one more time. I stay put and select Russel Okung or Trent Williams for the RT position. Grind it out on the ground...any simpleton can hand the ball off. Then, next year start looking for the qb of our dreams. I am underwhelmed by the qbs this year. Bradford had promise, but a bad shoulder never works for a qb...I don't care what Dr. Andrews has said...I don't touch him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob806 Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 I'm not keen on picking up a QB in Round #1 either. I've seen Tony Pike play, I think he may be worth a pick if he's there in the 3rd round. Let's see how he does tonight against a good Florida defense. The guy is 6'5", maybe he could develop in time. I think BQ will be the starter next year, unless Holmgren really finds something in FA. I want pass rushers & a killer ILB...our defense is still weak in my opinion, we really need to upgrade it in a big way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastlakeian Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 I would go with an O-lineman that will give us three first round picks on that line that will be together for a long time. Get a TE, WR in FA then draft defense and a RB. What about Jason Campbell would he already know this WC offense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaak Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 I'd go Okung for RT, or McCoy for DE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopaji Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 DB, RT, QB, DL, DB, LB, RB, TE, DL, WR, TE. That's my list of priorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopaji Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 I would go with an O-lineman that will give us three first round picks on that line that will be together for a long time. Get a TE, WR in FA then draft defense and a RB. What about Jason Campbell would he already know this WC offense? We don't run a WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 I would not be interested in Troy Smith, but there are some other veterans that will be available. The concern you have for losing position in the first round, doesn't bother me. Let me clarify something: WINNING never concerns me and it gives me as a fan much better pleasure than getting reminded by Pittsburgh's sodderheads we're drafting 3rd again. Trust me! I'm not sure you fully grasp what I'm askign with the opportunity we have ahead with a QB expert making our personnel decisions and 11 draft picks. I read ALOT of people excited about Suh and Berry so I needed to spell it out that we no longer have them on our door step (although we may have an outside shot at Berry if someone thinks Spiller is their missing link to winning). I'd much rather win and get MORE of our players excited about returning for 2010, which I think is happening. At this time, I don't think we're set at the most important position which is QB. If you look at EVERY serious contender - they have a franchise QB that teams always missing the playoffs long for convenient or not. I just wanted to see what types of things people would coinsider doing to rectify our QB situation. I don't know how many more auditions we need to see from Derek Anderson to prove he doesn't learn from experience or get more accurate from it either. Even worse, I saw ZERO from Quinn that I like. He can't read fast enough for the NFL game, which is quite a bit different than tearing apart 3 military academies and a hopeless Michigan State Defense umpteen times. If you noticed, BQ had success vrs Detroit's version of the Michigan State Defense where his best pases INDOORS were from 5-7 step drops where the plant and throw goes to an area of the field that the receiver is projected to be at. More specifically, welcome to a high school passing game. The ONLY time it worked was in a dome keeping the ball dry without the wind taking it out of bounds against a team looking for more talent on both sides of the ball. I believe they BEAT us with a rookie QB. I know there's ALOT of people thinking we've been pretty unlucky with the QB thing since we got our team back. Hard to blame anyone on that. However, have we EVER truely had a QB guru like Holmgren in charge of finding the QB? There's NEVER going to be a convenient day to say: "things are going so great let's draft the best available QB today so we can take our time time training him over the next 3 years." This ain't the 70s or even the 80s. It's the era of FA so you got a smaller number of years to commit to in that first contract. If it's a QB in that top 5, you're paying top cake while the guy goes through growing pains in what is usually a bad environment in transition. I can't think of many contenders landing franchise QBs in recent years. Every now and then, it's already a playoff team like Minnesota (for Culpepper) and Pitt (for scum bag). Going back to the 80s, Marino was drafted on a team David Woodley took to the Superbowl with gadgets, tricks and option plays. More recently, San Diego was somewhat different in that they were ready for playoffs with an addition of Gates and FA like McCardell so when their 1st round QB heldout - they learned Brees didn't REALLY suck like everyone in town had indicated. One really important thing to understand here is if you can PEG a QB right with the right personnel guru makign the call - you can frequent the playoffs and conference Championship Games like we did when we drafted Kosar or Philly did after they drafted McNabb or even San Diego has done since they drafted Rivers. I think Pitt won 2 Superbowls since they drafted their guy. It certainly feels like Indy has won at least 11 games for the entire decade. Now that we have Holmgren, who is supposed to be the QB guru that trained a guy like Andy Reid. If ANYONE is going to be able to make this decision - it's a guy that got on the map for what he did with making Brett Favre into an NFL QB instead of the Glanville-induced happy Hour kid in Atlanta. I sincerely hope he'd know what to do with a pick of the litter IF he deems one of the many QBs coming out worthy of a high pick or he decides to take Troy Smith. Keep in mind, the better we get collaterally the less our chances get at snagging a pick of the litter at QB. If someone is thinking Jason Campbell, Head Coaches are going down like dominos in DC and he'll want alot more cake than Troy would come for. Staying with me here, it doesn't look like there's an obvious "gotta have" at other positions now that we're winning our way out of the top 3-4 spots. Teams that plan for the next Tom Brady at the end of round 6 can do so but we haven't exactly seen too many of these in our lifetime between Sipe and Brady right? I brought Troy Smith up and everyone hacking at the idea isn't giving me a better cost-benefit FA QB so I'm guessing it's not the worst idea. He'll come at bargain prices vrs the overpayment alternatives we're looking at with Quinn and DA right about now. DA seems like the lesser of 2 evils but how comforting is it that he misses screen passes where there isn't a defender between our RB and the end zone? That's gonna INVITE the blitz against better teams. Just to remind people of the importance of a QB to winning, here's the QBs already in the playoff picture: NcNabb, Favre, Brees, Rivers, Manning, Warner, Romo, Rodgers, Brady, Palmer The rest of the league is busy trying to FIND these types of QBs within a very limited supply and demand. We know it ain't easy but if we have the RIGHT guy in charge of personnel, it shouldn't be impossible any more either. - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster Dick Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 For some reason, it seems like this team has the same needs every damn year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshutchins Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 For some reason, it seems like this team has the same needs every damn year. We do seem to keep starting over, don't we? Hence the need for Holmgren. I hope he and whoever he brings in at the GM spot make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEVELandMILIDH Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 Draft Daryll Clark form Penn State Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 I don't worry about QB until I have invested in the O-line one more time. I stay put and select Russel Okung or Trent Williams for the RT position. Grind it out on the ground...any simpleton can hand the ball off. Yaaa, Kyle Boller is REALLY good at that. When he got replaced by more braincells in St Louis, Steven Jackson's body looked like Humpty Dumpty's body after the fall and now he CAN'T play even if he really wants to because he had some moron at QB that could ONLY handoff every play. Carolina, Miami and Tennessee are really good at handing off too. We can see how much that helped the durability of DeAngelo Williams, Ronnie Brown and even Ricky Williams last week. And look how nice Tenn looked when CJ sprained his ankle in the 1st quarter vrs Balt last year. Clinton Portis is another back that really appreciates this kind of QB you speak of. Same with his backup and his backup. Look how wonderful it's worked in Oakland, every back that gets named starter can't quite get to his 2nd straight start (Fargas, McFadden, Bush). Any team practicing your grind it out only idea isn't gonna be so memorable in January. I'm just playfully busting your chops in this thread my fellow Tennessean but hear me out before blasting me back. We've repeated the simpleton art of handing off since 1999; and something about this wonderful weird science you speak of has made 3 different RBs that had PROMISING first seasons with us resort to pussyfootsies in just their 2nd seasons here. (Droughns, Green and Lewis). People forget William Green ran us into the playoffs in the last 7 weeks of 2002 as he averaged over 100 yards a game rushing in that span of games. The next season he had 2 early 100 yard outings vrs Pitt and Oakland; BUT somewhere early on he lost the desire to run it up inside quite the same way he finished that 02 season. You don't SUPPOSE it was because the frequency of 9 men in the box to accommodate our predictability had anything to do with it do you? We've already drafted oline in round 1 twice, which is good IMO considering Savage sucked at drafting oline later than round 1. Teams with REAL personnel gurus don't need to draft all 5 oline starters in round 1. While we're at it, I didn't exactly see you coming to Mangini's rescue much about the Mack selection before you got the opportunity to play hindsight Nostradamus here. I ALSO remembered arguing with quite a few fans that Steinbach is STILL pretty good before that became crystal clear in recent weeks. I believe I said, our oline was opening holes that LEWIS just couldn't get to in time. And now we see Harrison confirming this observation. When you've played oline or taught it on a high school level - you know what a decent block is, you know if a guy gets there in time and you see if he's playing with gooid base/leverage or not. ALOT people were BLAMING Steinbach when he pulled or trapped and the defender would come through the area he vacated in order to get to the trap hole or outside on the pull, which meant someone else wasn't making their block. Sometimes that's a FB filling or a TE in motion filling or possibly a Center not getting there. I think our oline chemistry has come a long way as our strength of schedule has lightened up in recent weeks. Worth noting: when we won in the 80s with a GREAT oline guess how many of these guys were first round draft picks: Dan Fike, Mike Baab, Cody Risien, Tony Jones, Paul Farren, Ricky Bolden, Larry Williams and George Lilja. Come to think of it, even RB Earnest Byner was a 10th round draft pick and our QB was a first round pick along with a TE we called the Wizard of Oz. That was my golden era as a fan because I witnessed a team good enough for 3 AFC Championship appearances. Relating this to now, I think 2 first round oline guys is pretty good and now that Savage is gone - drafting servicable/decent oline guys after round 1 should be as doable as everywhere else in this league. Leaving a passing game missing vertical attack prongs and at the hands of QB incapable of hitting the RB on swing passes, screens or dumpoffs, runs the risk of drowing in the blitz. Have you seen a franchise since 1999 that has drowned in more blitzes than this one? I haven't either. Let's get some competance at QB again so there's more to watch than a passing game gong show. The old "all you gotta do is handoff" hasn't really brought our average # of wins per season above 4 or 5 since the new stadium was built. If you want this franchise to EVER compete in a post season game - you're gonna have to do the unthinkable and add a QB capable of restoring all the fond memories competant QBs once gave us. The Otto Grahams, Bernie Kosars and Brian Sipes don't win by mistake or just handing off - they WON when their team was behind with 2 minutes to go a ton because they could do more than just hand off. We don't really need to keep the just hand off mentality for a second straight decade UNLESS we have another crappy personnel guy. - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 So a comment about any simpleton being able to hand off brings 12 paragraphs?? Wow. Sometimes I think you are a bit anal. Of course you still need to throw the ball,,,,you honestly thought I meant never throw the ball?? As for Mack...I was all for the pick once it was made. As for rescuing Mangini...why?? It's a message board. At that point he didn't really need any rescuing did he?? I have stated on many occasions I like mangini and hope he stays, but if not...that's how it goes. Oh..just because you have a Tennessee drivers license doesn't mean you are a Tennessean. I was told it would take me 20 years of living here before I became a Tennessean, which I passed maybe 14 years ago, ....so I am going to hold you to the same rule...fair is fair! Until then, you are just a Damn Yankee who actually shows some smarts and is using his noodle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeler SChick Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 If I'm GM, I'm lobbying to move the team to Toronto. I bet the fans there show up for what might have been the biggest win in franchise history. Regards ....an'at . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 So a comment about any simpleton being able to hand off brings 12 paragraphs?? Wow. Sometimes I think you are a bit anal. Of course you still need to throw the ball,,,,you honestly thought I meant never throw the ball?? As for Mack...I was all for the pick once it was made. As for rescuing Mangini...why?? It's a message board. At that point he didn't really need any rescuing did he?? I have stated on many occasions I like mangini and hope he stays, but if not...that's how it goes. Oh..just because you have a Tennessee drivers license doesn't mean you are a Tennessean. I was told it would take me 20 years of living here before I became a Tennessean, which I passed maybe 14 years ago, ....so I am going to hold you to the same rule...fair is fair! Until then, you are just a Damn Yankee who actually shows some smarts and is using his noodle. LOL! Basterd! Next time you're gettin 13 paragraphs full of multi-syllable words I can't even pronounce! - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yosemitejam Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 President MH will not use 1st round pick on ANY QB.Never has never will. He will however: 1. - select DT McCoy (OK) potential franchise player. 4th player selected in draft - will let go of some draft picks in order to trade up for CB Haden (FL)...quick learner, athletic.... will be able to shut down premier divisional receivers. As good as Berry for less$$$...1st round selection 2. Next priority will be QB. Pending outcome of FA issues will obtain services of Kyle Orton.. Decent game manager. Has ability to learn and execute variety of offenses. Has winning record with two teams. 3. Obtain Free Agent Brandon Marshall..Not happy in Denver. Respects President H. Value has fallen some with recent hamstring issues. Economical WR Continued development of core o line players...Big emphasis on existing LB's to tap into huge potential... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Chuck Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 I'd go Okung for RT, or McCoy for DE. I like Okung too. On defense Taylor Mays, safety, USC would be worth a #5 or # 6 pick if we go defense. I think safety is our biggest defensive need. Of couse, if Suh is available, take him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b86b Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 President MH will not use 1st round pick on ANY QB.Never has never will. He will however: 1. - select DT McCoy (OK) potential franchise player. 4th player selected in draft - will let go of some draft picks in order to trade up for CB Haden (FL)...quick learner, athletic.... will be able to shut down premier divisional receivers. As good as Berry for less$$$...1st round selection 2. Next priority will be QB. Pending outcome of FA issues will obtain services of Kyle Orton.. Decent game manager. Has ability to learn and execute variety of offenses. Has winning record with two teams. 3. Obtain Free Agent Brandon Marshall..Not happy in Denver. Respects President H. Value has fallen some with recent hamstring issues. Economical WR Continued development of core o line players...Big emphasis on existing LB's to tap into huge potential... Haden would look real nice in a Browns uni..ballhawk and he can lay the lumber for a lil guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faninthehammer Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 Taylor Mays would be a great pick if we could trade down ten spots IMHO. Not worthy of top five or six. McCoy at six or trade down for Safety/OT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBrownsFan Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 I like Okung too. On defense Taylor Mays, safety, USC would be worth a #5 or # 6 pick if we go defense. I think safety is our biggest defensive need. Of couse, if Suh is available, take him. No... no... and no!! Taylor Mays sucks. Period. The only thing he is good for is taking cheap shots with the crown of his helmet after he failed to cover the receiver. We already have enough DB's who cant cover, we dont need another one. Get the Jones kid from LSU... I like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 President MH will not use 1st round pick on ANY QB.Never has never will. He will however: 1. - select DT McCoy (OK) potential franchise player. 4th player selected in draft - will let go of some draft picks in order to trade up for CB Haden (FL)...quick learner, athletic.... will be able to shut down premier divisional receivers. As good as Berry for less$$$...1st round selection 2. Next priority will be QB. Pending outcome of FA issues will obtain services of Kyle Orton.. Decent game manager. Has ability to learn and execute variety of offenses. Has winning record with two teams. 3. Obtain Free Agent Brandon Marshall..Not happy in Denver. Respects President H. Value has fallen some with recent hamstring issues. Economical WR Continued development of core o line players...Big emphasis on existing LB's to tap into huge potential... YOWSA! This is some pretty cool stuff to chew over Yosemite regarding Orton & Marshall. Haden looks great on game day; but sometimes you gotta wonder if that's from outrageously good cover skills and closing speed or he gets spoiled by a great pass rush. Seems really high to go for a corner when so many great ones have come out in mid to late rounds. When we had Jamir Miller giving us Pro Bowl pass rush off the edge in 2001, we led the conference in INTs inspite of having a bunch of average cover guys in our secondary. Florida's front 7 generates a pretty rock solid pass rush and the 1 game they missed Dunlap it sure seemed like Bama's QB McElroy had a career day throwing the ball. I didn't see those same air tight coverages from their secondary I normally see when thir D is at full strength. Some of that was because Ingram was running all over them and there was no such thing as 3rd and long posing predictable passing situations. And some of it was because their defensive X-factor Dunlap was missing and this was lengthing their time to throw. The more Bama noticed that pleasant game day surprise - the more they had fun with it. Dunlap is also the type of player that could have made tackles for a loss to set up some 3rd and unmanagables as those HOT Bearcats noticed yesterday. - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownB499 Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 You want a QB for Holmgren to develop ? check out Ryan Mallett from Arkansas Big arm, Big kid 6'7" 250 lbs...built for the AFC North Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 You want a QB for Holmgren to develop ? check out Ryan Mallett from Arkansas Big arm, Big kid 6'7" 250 lbs...built for the AFC North This is another idea I really like! They rave about this kid in the SEC and he was smart enough to LEAVE Michigan. - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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