Mangini's Positives IMO

[Flugel]

- Overcoming a draft volume of 5 in 2008 (with no day 1 picks and only Rubin as keeper material).

 

- Winning on days our Qbs either went 2 of 17 passing or completed 30-47% of their passes.

 

- Winning in the absence of Shaun Rodgers & D'Qwell Jackson (as I mentioned in the Reverend Sez post who asked for Em to be fired)

 

- Giving me my first GOOD group of 3-4 LBers to look at since the re-inception of the 3-4.

 

- Improving 3-4 dlinemen like Corey Williams, Rubin and Schaeferling.

 

- Replacing Savage's idea of the best athlete on the planet (Brodney Pool) with Mike Furrey for good results while starting Mike Adams over Brandon McDonald (McDonald still has value as a 3rd corner IMO).

 

- Drafting a Center to be the apex of an oline that averaged about 175 yards a game on the ground the second we got Jamal's DEAD legs out of our lineup. The oline criticism came to an abrupt end the day we started a RB that could get from stance to daylight and do something with that daylight.

 

- ADDING the following players to the active roster that FIT that fit coachability and the attitude Mangini wanted here: David Bowens (stud), Kaluka Maiava, Jason Trusnik, Matt Roth, Moore, Pork Chop, Jennings, Schaeferling.

 

- Winning 4 consecutive games for the first time since BB did it over 15 years ago.

 

- If you wanted a Coach that could overcome a terrible deck dealt (causing 7-8 new starters on offense and about the same on defense) to change the mind of so many disappointed fans, you got a guy that had EVERY post game show saying the Cleveland Browns turned into one of the toughest teams to beat in the second half of the season. The SAME Shannon Sharp that called the Savage collection of players early on the worst team he's seen - was the one saying they turned out to be one of the toughest teams to beat for the record.

 

- The NY Jets didn't get their last 2 opponents pulling important starters on them the last 2 weeks; and they finished just as 9-7 as Rex Ryan just did. What I'm getting at here is anytime Mangini has had competant QBs he was winning at least 9 games in NY. In Cleveland, he had to win all 5 games without 1 completion percentage over 47%. I haven't seen any other coach here accomplish this even BB with Todd Philcox.

 

- He knows how to hire GOOD coaches too.

 

- Last but not least, as a long time fan getting accustomed to seasons ending with no offensive TDs in the final month or 2 - I'm FINALLY excited about this team again as we head into an offseason where mangin restored a draft volume of Savage emaciations to 11 draft picks in April. Blast away at that if you can naysayers but i'm not buying any of it.

 

- Tom F.

[kshutchins]

- Last but not least, as a long time fan getting accustomed to seasons ending with no offensive TDs in the final month or 2 - I'm FINALLY excited about this team again as we head into an offseason where mangini restored a draft volume of Savage emaciations to 11 draft picks in April. Blast away at that if you can naysayers but i'm not buying any of it.

- Tom F.

 

And got rid of some dead weight (most notably Winslow and Edwards) in the process.

[Alo]

One curious thing about this year was we got better as the injuries piled on. On the one hand, that could be seen as a testament to Mangini's coaching skills; on the other hand, it might signal that the roster was talented enough to win more games, but Mangini wasn't playing the right guys.

 

Harrison didn't play much until JLew got hurt, St. Clair had to go down before we found a decent right side combo of Hadnot & Womack. Moore got his opportunity because the TE's on the active roster were beat up. And perhaps most bizarrely, it took Eric Barton going down with a serious neck injury for Bowens to get time inside - people forget how mediocre D Bo was as our starting OLB earlier this season.

 

So I'm not sure what to make of our late season improvements, though it was good to see the guys play hard & with discipline.

[Gips]

- If you wanted a Coach that could overcome a terrible deck dealt (causing 7-8 new starters on offense and about the same on defense) to change the mind of so many disappointed fans, you got a guy that had EVERY post game show saying the Cleveland Browns turned into one of the toughest teams to beat in the second half of the season. The SAME Shannon Sharp that called the Savage collection of players early on the worst team he's seen - was the one saying they turned out to be one of the toughest teams to beat for the record.

- Tom F.

The last 4 games stand as a testament to mangini's process ,this is one of the toughest browns teams i can recall even with so many subs they never quit.../salute mangini.

Mangini has at least in essence turned this team around and left us set up to do some serious damage next year ,im hoping holmgren will keep mangini around and give him some much needed help on offensive coaching/coordinating...

 

[CribbsWalker]

-Defeating the rival Pittsburgh Steelers [and making them look inept on national TV] thus effectively ending their run at making the postseason... but giving them enough glimmer of light to believe they could still possibly make it only to be stabbed in the heart in week 17 by another division rival's victory.

 

-also mad kudos for finding talent out of thin air such as Chris Jennings and Evan Moore. Maybe down the line he can pluck a QB out of a pumpkin patch like he did some other players which had productive games for the Brownies.

[ClevelandFanForLife]

- He knows how to hire GOOD coaches too.

i agree with quite a bit of what you said, but this is ridiculous/hilarious. if he hired the perfect coach for every position except one i would say he couldn't find good coaches. that one coach of course is brain daboll. i don;t care how good the rest of his supporting cast is, the hiring of daboll is inexcusable. other than this douche your statement is correct.

[Chip Banks]

One curious thing about this year was we got better as the injuries piled on. On the one hand, that could be seen as a testament to Mangini's coaching skills; on the other hand, it might signal that the roster was talented enough to win more games, but Mangini wasn't playing the right guys.

 

Harrison didn't play much until JLew got hurt, St. Clair had to go down before we found a decent right side combo of Hadnot & Womack. Moore got his opportunity because the TE's on the active roster were beat up. And perhaps most bizarrely, it took Eric Barton going down with a serious neck injury for Bowens to get time inside - people forget how mediocre D Bo was as our starting OLB earlier this season.

 

So I'm not sure what to make of our late season improvements, though it was good to see the guys play hard & with discipline.

 

There's yet another way to look at it. Our "top tier" talent wasn't all that top tier. Which would kind of explain our 4-12 season last year.

 

You mention Barton, but for all the talk about DQ being the top tackler in the NFL last year, the defense has been better without him.

 

Ditto Shaun Rogers.

 

Ditto Brodney Pool (who was replaced by a wide receiver).

 

The truth is rarely pure and never simple. Oscar Wilde said that. Part of the truth is that Mangini and Ryan installed a defense much more sophisticated than what Romeo Crennel ever ran and the defense struggled early, giving up yards and big plays. As the year went on, some of the guys started to learn and some of the smart "Patriot-type" players came in and were able to pick it up right away. Even without top tier talent, the schemes began to compensate.

 

Matt Roth instantly secured the edge of one side of our defense.

 

Remember the complaints by Lewis about the Browns practicing in pads too much? Anyone notice that we went from one of the worst tackling teams in the NFL at about mid-season to a team that tackled pretty well down the stretch?

 

The criticism of the offense line combos has some validity, but Hadnot fought an injury for the better part of the year and we fundamentally changed what we did in the second half of the season. When Carl Smith began to work with Daboll we tightened up our splits on the offensive line and committed to the run. We were running the ball very effectively against the #1 rated rush defense in the NFL (the Steelers) when St. Clair went out with an injury. If we'd played any games where we had to play from behind, our pass protection would have been exposed. We still need to address the RT position.

 

For all the talk of Harrison, everyone was run the ball effectively of late. Jennings was the featured back against by far the best run defense we've faced in the winning streak, and we put up 170+ yards rushing on a night everyone knew we were not going to throw. Cribbs has averaged 7+ yards a carry over the span.

 

Also remember that Mangini actually TRIED to get Harrison more involved very early in the season. He have him 17 carries in the first game against the Ravens and Harrison averaged under two yards a carry. Nevertheless, Mangini gave Harrison a boat load of carries (29) against the Bengals the following week and Harrison responded with a 100 yard game against Cincy. Harrison was limited all week practice the following week, got eight carries against Buffalo, but averaged under three yards a carry in a game that Lewis rushed for over 100 yards.

 

Remember that Harrison was also unable to play the entire preseason because of injury, appeared to not be able to handle a heavy workload following the back to back 17 and 29 carry games against Baltimore and Cincy, and really did little with his opportunities before the KC game, except to miss a couple key blitz pickups. He had 10 carries for 35 yards against San Diego and 7 rushes for 9 yards against Pitt when Cribbs was ripping it up and Jennings (a guy a CFL team cut) was running had and productively.

 

Yet, the very next game and thereafter, Mangini rewarded Harrison with the bulk of the carries.

 

I think the arguments that Mangini "overlooked" Harrison are a bit myopic.

 

And as for the "new guys"

 

Evan Moore was on the practice squad only two weeks before he was promoted.

 

Roth and Trusnik were mid-season acquisitions that contributed immediately.

 

If you were watching, you saw the growth of Maiva and Bernard, who were spoon fed playing time until they achieved more prominent roles as the season went on.

 

Same was starting with Robiskie.

 

Bowens was playing injured at the beginning of the year. My guess is that we would have seen an equally as strong finish from him on the outside had circumstances not dictated otherwise.

 

The Browns were a putrid at the end of last season. They never got decent QB play this season. It took a lot of tinkering to find what this roster could do and what it couldn't. Too long, maybe? But don't underestimate the growth of this team, and even other factors, that made the late season improvement possible.

[samoth]

One curious thing about this year was we got better as the injuries piled on. On the one hand, that could be seen as a testament to Mangini's coaching skills; on the other hand, it might signal that the roster was talented enough to win more games, but Mangini wasn't playing the right guys.

 

Harrison didn't play much until JLew got hurt, St. Clair had to go down before we found a decent right side combo of Hadnot & Womack. Moore got his opportunity because the TE's on the active roster were beat up. And perhaps most bizarrely, it took Eric Barton going down with a serious neck injury for Bowens to get time inside - people forget how mediocre D Bo was as our starting OLB earlier this season.

 

So I'm not sure what to make of our late season improvements, though it was good to see the guys play hard & with discipline.

 

Getting better despite injuries reflects 100% on the coaching. You think Romeo would have ever played Trusnik or Roth? Hell no, he'd have Grandpa McGinnest out there with two broken legs before he played those guys.

[Alo]

Part of the truth is that Mangini and Ryan installed a defense much more sophisticated than what Romeo Crennel ever ran and the defense struggled early, giving up yards and big plays. As the year went on, some of the guys started to learn and some of the smart "Patriot-type" players came in and were able to pick it up right away. Even without top tier talent, the schemes began to compensate.

That's a good point. Mangini could have done more to ease that transition, but that's a side point.

 

If you were watching, you saw the growth of Maiva and Bernard, who were spoon fed playing time until they achieved more prominent roles as the season went on.

Maiava's progress has been far from linear. He was handed a starting job mid-season but seemed to lose it when he played poorly against Detroit. I'm not sure I'd praise his development as a 3-4 ILB. He'd probably be better off if we switched to a 4-3.

 

Bowens was playing injured at the beginning of the year. My guess is that we would have seen an equally as strong finish from him on the outside had circumstances not dictated otherwise.

I doubt it. At this point, he lacks the explosiveness to beat tackles around the edge. He's better blitzing from his ILB spot or lining up inside in our four man "rabbit" front, where he does job shedding blocks and getting to the QB.

 

He played well in his five starts at ILB last year. After seeing what he did this year & last, I'm pretty confident that he's better off at ILB.

 

[Alo]

Getting better despite injuries reflects 100% on the coaching. You think Romeo would have ever played Trusnik or Roth? Hell no, he'd have Grandpa McGinnest out there with two broken legs before he played those guys.

I think this knock against Romeo is mostly unfair. Romeo had Rubin playing a lot late last year, both at end and nose tackle.

 

The other young defensive players he was faulted for not playing more were Alex Hall and Beau Bell. Hall only plays specials now, and Bell's out of the league.

 

Could be they just weren't any good.

[kosar_win]

The SAME Shannon Sharp that called the Savage collection of players early on the worst team he's seen - was the one saying they turned out to be one of the toughest teams to beat for the record.

 

Video of CBS post-game show where Shannon praises Cleveland Browns: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-Z7X_k0iGk...e=youtube_gdata

 

Notice what Sharp says in response to "can they find a coach": "we're gonna stick with Eric Mangini." Right on, Shannon.

 

[Canton Mike]

Great points by many. I also believe that Marcus Benard may just be a diamond in the rough. It will be very interesting to see how he comes on in training camp getting more attention as a possible starter.

Mike

[Earl34]

I think that Chip Banks said it best when he called the views of Harrison not playing before now "myopic".

 

Early on, not only was his production erratic but his work in practice was questionable (per an interview with Harrison himself) and he was not picking up the blitz at ALL. He and Mangini discussed it and he worked his way back. Granted he was thrust back into the role when Lewis was done for the year but Jennings could have easily been given those carries. Running back was much like the QB position this year except that someone actually won this job.

 

QB was a different story but you could look at it two ways. First, you could say that Mangini should have given it to Quinn and stuck with him longer. On the other hand, Quinn was not moving the offense. He wasn't in sync with anyone in the passing game and he was checking down constantly. When they gave him the starting job, they were hoping he could at least move the ball. He wasn't doing that. Perhaps he wasn't ready for prime time. Mangini and the rest of the staff look at the bench and see #3. He gets the ball and the offense seems to move a bit. In the end, however, he isn't able to generate more than the 6-3 Stupor Bowl win over Buffalo. People are screaming to replace him with Quinn. Let's pause there.

 

What would everyone say if Anderson got benched after 3 games? They'd say that "Eric Mangini doesn't have any clue what he's doing". At this point, the situation is officially SCROD (past plu-perfect)...

 

The only option that they must've felt they had was to see if DA could work himself out of the funk. He couldn't. The bye week comes and it's the natural break in the season. At this point, with two weeks off and the national media commenting on everything that's wrong with the organization....it's the obvious time to switch back.

 

Now, I'm not a Quinn fan. I don't think that ultimately I like either of these guys BUT #10 did seize the second chance and play well....or at least well enough. He didn't turn the ball over which at this point was all that you could ask for. Injury happens...DA manages to not lose the last two games while Harrison carries the load.

 

The point I am trying to make here is that he is criticized for his handling of these situations. To me, I can see how this sequence could carry out logically and not through some inability to coach or determine talent.

 

He was oft-criticized for his "opportunity sessions" and his insistence on signing guys that aren't Nos 1-22 in talent but filled out considerable depth on the roster. How do you think you survive injuries to Shaun Rogers and to D'Qwell Jackson? Why do you think that the special teams are so good? Thank the opportunity sessions and the constant churning of the bottom end of the roster.

 

Ultimately, Eric Mangini's positives should include that he stayed the course when everyone else was jumping ship. It may not be enough to save his job but it was a damn fine show of conviction that won over the locker room.

[daydawg19]

- Overcoming a draft volume of 5 in 2008 (with no day 1 picks and only Rubin as keeper material).

 

- Winning on days our Qbs either went 2 of 17 passing or completed 30-47% of their passes.

 

- Winning in the absence of Shaun Rodgers & D'Qwell Jackson (as I mentioned in the Reverend Sez post who asked for Em to be fired)

 

- Giving me my first GOOD group of 3-4 LBers to look at since the re-inception of the 3-4.

 

- Improving 3-4 dlinemen like Corey Williams, Rubin and Schaeferling.

 

- Replacing Savage's idea of the best athlete on the planet (Brodney Pool) with Mike Furrey for good results while starting Mike Adams over Brandon McDonald (McDonald still has value as a 3rd corner IMO).

 

- Drafting a Center to be the apex of an oline that averaged about 175 yards a game on the ground the second we got Jamal's DEAD legs out of our lineup. The oline criticism came to an abrupt end the day we started a RB that could get from stance to daylight and do something with that daylight.

 

- ADDING the following players to the active roster that FIT that fit coachability and the attitude Mangini wanted here: David Bowens (stud), Kaluka Maiava, Jason Trusnik, Matt Roth, Moore, Pork Chop, Jennings, Schaeferling.

 

- Winning 4 consecutive games for the first time since BB did it over 15 years ago.

 

- If you wanted a Coach that could overcome a terrible deck dealt (causing 7-8 new starters on offense and about the same on defense) to change the mind of so many disappointed fans, you got a guy that had EVERY post game show saying the Cleveland Browns turned into one of the toughest teams to beat in the second half of the season. The SAME Shannon Sharp that called the Savage collection of players early on the worst team he's seen - was the one saying they turned out to be one of the toughest teams to beat for the record.

 

- The NY Jets didn't get their last 2 opponents pulling important starters on them the last 2 weeks; and they finished just as 9-7 as Rex Ryan just did. What I'm getting at here is anytime Mangini has had competant QBs he was winning at least 9 games in NY. In Cleveland, he had to win all 5 games without 1 completion percentage over 47%. I haven't seen any other coach here accomplish this even BB with Todd Philcox.

 

- He knows how to hire GOOD coaches too.

 

- Last but not least, as a long time fan getting accustomed to seasons ending with no offensive TDs in the final month or 2 - I'm FINALLY excited about this team again as we head into an offseason where mangin restored a draft volume of Savage emaciations to 11 draft picks in April. Blast away at that if you can naysayers but i'm not buying any of it.

 

- Tom F.

 

 

He knows how to hire GOOD coaches too.

 

Except for one.

[samoth]

Video of CBS post-game show where Shannon praises Cleveland Browns: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-Z7X_k0iGk...e=youtube_gdata

 

Notice what Sharp says in response to "can they find a coach": "we're gonna stick with Eric Mangini." Right on, Shannon.

Wow for once Shannon took the bag of marbles out of his mouth when he spoke so i could actually understand him

[Earl34]

Wow for once Shannon took the bag of marbles out of his mouth when he spoke so i could actually understand him

 

...but notice that Boomer "I'll never be in good with the Jets" Esiason didn't miss the opportunity to rank on Mangini (and Shannon stood up for him)...

[samoth]

I'll tell you the one thing that really bugs me:

 

All the "experts" and sports writers point to our low passing yardage and overall bad QB play.

 

Remember when the Ravens won the superbowl? They did it by running Jamal Lewis and suffocating on defense. In our last 4 games we've had decent-great defense and unbelievable running ability. Why should it matter what our QBs are doing if we're winning?

[7moses7]

I'll tell you the one thing that really bugs me:

 

All the "experts" and sports writers point to our low passing yardage and overall bad QB play.

 

Remember when the Ravens won the superbowl? They did it by running Jamal Lewis and suffocating on defense. In our last 4 games we've had decent-great defense and unbelievable running ability. Why should it matter what our QBs are doing if we're winning?

if j.lewis doesn't get injured we go 1-15.Jerome Harrison hit the same holes by the same line that lewis couldn't.

[Chip Banks]

if j.lewis doesn't get injured we go 1-15.Jerome Harrison hit the same holes by the same line that lewis couldn't.

 

Yeah, Harrison's seven rushes for nine yards was the difference in that Steeler beat down. Forget the EIGHT sacks.

[7moses7]

Yeah, Harrison's seven rushes for nine yards was the difference in that Steeler beat down. Forget the EIGHT sacks.

the point was mangini stuck with lewis even though he couldn't hit the hole quick enough.Jennings and Harrison were able to.so like i said the browns would be 1-15 had lewis not gotten injured.mangini wasn't the reason for the 4 game win streak.