bonedawg Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Last straw? Cribbs intends to walk out on Browns after low offer NFL.com Wire Reports Josh Cribbs believes it's "unlikely" that he will play another game for the Cleveland Browns. Insulted by the Browns' latest contract offer, Cribbs intends to clean out his locker, and one of his agents said the Pro Bowler will demand a trade. "I'm hurt because I don't want to play for nobody else," Cribbs said Wednesday night. "But the way they're talking, they're leaving me no choice." Cribbs was the Browns' most valuable player this season. He played wide receiver and quarterback, and he also returned and covered kickoffs and punts. He even set the NFL career record for most kickoff returns for touchdowns. But agent Peter Schaffer said Wednesday that the Browns failed to live up to previous promises they made to Cribbs and offered him $1.4 million annually for six years, well below market value. Schaffer said there's "no more middle ground" and he's "extremely shocked" that new team president Mike Holmgren wouldn't understand Cribbs' value to the Browns. "We're going to formally put in a request for a trade," J.R. Rickert, Cribbs' other agent, told NFL Network's Jason La Canfora. "He will not set foot in that facility again. If they had offered even something like $2.5 million per season, we could have worked with them, but to me, this offer is indefensible." Rickert said Browns vice president of football administration Dawn Aponte, who handles contract negotiations, told him the offer was final and that Holmgren was in agreement with her. "Dawn said this was it, this was their offer," Rickert said. "She said it would be 1.4 today, 1.4 in March and 1.4 in August." Cribbs said last month that the team had promised to give him a new contract by the end of the season. Even in the days leading up to the Browns' season finale against the Jacksonville Jaguars last Sunday, Cribbs remained optimistic that something would get done. Not anymore. "I did all the playing I'm going to play on this contract," Cribbs said. "I ain't doing nothing. I'm not showing my face until it's right." Rickert said he asked the team if it needed or wanted more time to consider things, especially with Holmgren just coming on the job, and that he told Aponte if she didn't change the offer or request more time to negotiate by 5 p.m. Wednesday, he would take the unusual tactic of making the offer public. "I didn't feel like we had any other choice than to let the Browns fans know exactly what was going on," Rickert said, "and let them know why Josh was preparing to leave." Said Schaffer: "I'm extremely shocked. I have tremendous respect for Mike Holmgren. I know he knows how to put a team together. I was optimistic that with him coming aboard that he would understand and that Josh would be rewarded. To see there is no change in their position is insulting." Holmgren said Tuesday that he had contact with Cribbs' representatives when he was at home in Arizona. Holmgren intimated that he planned to take care of Cribbs but only after fair negotiations. "I believe players should be rewarded for what they do," Holmgren said. "I have no problems with that at all. What happens, though, on occasion is our view of how much that should be and the agent's view of how much that should be differs. We have made an effort. "We will continue to make an effort to handle Josh's situation. I want Josh here." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeBest2 Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 well looks like his NFL career is pretty much over then he wont get traded unless we get a 1st or 2nd rounder for him which i dont see happening because Holmgren is a No BS guy he doesnt give in to other players "demands" so if cribbs wants to demand a trade and not play then he can have fun sitting on the bench or on the couch at home too bad he was a great ST guy played with alot of heart but he deserves what he's getting he's proven he cant be counted on for a solid commitment he signed and agreed to a contract and wont fullfill it so now hes going to have to swallow his pride or have fun rotting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonedawg Posted January 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 well looks like his NFL career is pretty much over then he wont get traded unless we get a 1st or 2nd rounder for him which i dont see happening because Holmgren is a No BS guy he doesnt give in to other players "demands" so if cribbs wants to demand a trade and not play then he can have fun sitting on the bench or on the couch at home too bad he was a great ST guy played with alot of heart but he deserves what he's getting he's proven he cant be counted on for a solid commitment he signed and agreed to a contract and wont fullfill it so now hes going to have to swallow his pride or have fun rotting I agree to a certain extent. Has Cribbs flourished beyond what anyone expected? Absolutely. He is hands down the best ST player in the league. He is the best return man in the game and when he is often the first guy to make the tackle on punts and kick-offs. He has proven himself to be a tremendous asset in the WildDawg formation as well. That being said, he hasn't developed into a legit WR yet and his agent is demanding to renegotiate a contract 3 years before it expires. I love Cribbs, for some crazy reason he really enjoys playing for our shitty franchise and he is one of the few guys that leaves it all on the field every game and really seems to "get" Cleveland in his interviews. Seriously though, if he wants to be pissed at someone, he should be pissed at his agent for signing him into that contract in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeBest2 Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 I agree to a certain extent. Has Cribbs flourished beyond what anyone expected? Absolutely. He is hands down the best ST player in the league. He is the best return man in the game and when he is often the first guy to make the tackle on punts and kick-offs. He has proven himself to be a tremendous asset in the WildDawg formation as well. That being said, he hasn't developed into a legit WR yet and his agent is demanding to renegotiate a contract 3 years before it expires. I love Cribbs, for some crazy reason he really enjoys playing for our shitty franchise and he is one of the few guys that leaves it all on the field every game and really seems to "get" Cleveland in his interviews. Seriously though, if he wants to be pissed at someone, he should be pissed at his agent for signing him into that contract in the first place. well look at it this way when you look at the roster you see WR #16 Josh Cribbs not ST #16 Josh Cribbs he is a bad WR doesnt run good or correct routes, his hands arent as great as some people thought he seemed to drop alot more passes then he should (although they may not be offically be recorded as drops) and he wasnt getting any seperation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Last straw? Cribbs intends to walk out on Browns after low offer NFL.com Wire Reports I've never seen 1 contract negotiated in the media instead of face to face so this is brand new. After finally listening to Holmgren's first introduction speech on 1/5/10, he said there would be an offer (not to be confused with final offer) and they expected Cribbs' side to mow it over. If he's got experience with this kind of thing - he understands the negotiations game and so should Cribbs' agent right? Cribbs has 3 more years on his contract so WHERE does this report have him heading off to? Worth noting, I'm GLAD I listened to Holmgren's speech. I feel better about him than I did when I read/heard all the rumors and reports. I think I should keep the same concept for this contract negotiation. I'm not sure what the absolute hurry is in the absence of a GM. We all know Cribbs is a priority but do it right instead of hurrying through something carelessly. Cribbs has vital roles on kick return and kick coverage teams, QB in the WildDawg and he's scored a TD as a WR in a pass route in 1 of our wins. He's HUGE to field position, scoring and doing the dirty work on kick coverages. If anyone should GET how much he does - it's a former coach that understands the game. It sounds like Holmgren understands. - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 I wonder if he's crying like a bitch on his agent's recommendation. So I don't know what the top ST guys make. I don't mind him getting neqr that especially if there are incentives. Ryan Pontbriand is the best long snapper in the league. We wouldn't pay him Nick Mangold money. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 I wonder if he's crying like a bitch on his agent's recommendation. So I don't know what the top ST guys make. I don't mind him getting neqr that especially if there are incentives. Ryan Pontbriand is the best long snapper in the league. We wouldn't pay him Nick Mangold money. WSS In the time I have known you I haven't known you to make unfair comments or comparisons, so I will assume you just got caught up in the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster Dick Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Our 5 wins this season were because of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshutchins Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Personally, I don't need to hear all this negotiating nonsense. Too much drama for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samoth Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 He won't hold out. Remember he said he would last season, and then played his brains out. He loves the game too much, and he'd lose too much money if he didn't play regardless of whether he takes the new contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopaji Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 My biggest issue is that the offer isn't even in the top 10 for KRs. He should no question be the highest paid KR in the league. He is after-all, the best that's ever played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdubs Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 All things considered, I'm shocked by how cocky the Browns are. Are you seriously refusing to pay your best player? Get over yourself, the man has earned a raise. Pay him what he's worth and shut up. Mangini already gave this place a bad rep among free agents with his little extra practice, i mean injury sessions. Now you're sending the message that you won't pay your own guys what they're worth. You wouldn't keep Quinn in to avoid paying him either. This franchise is becoming embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefjerky Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 All things considered, I'm shocked by how cocky the Browns are. Are you seriously refusing to pay your best player? Get over yourself, the man has earned a raise. Pay him what he's worth and shut up. Mangini already gave this place a bad rep among free agents with his little extra practice, i mean injury sessions. Now you're sending the message that you won't pay your own guys what they're worth. You wouldn't keep Quinn in to avoid paying him either. This franchise is becoming embarrassing. It's not Mangini giving these offers anymore, it's Holmgren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 I Love Cribbs as a Brown, but this is only business and dont wear your feelings on your shirt sleeves. I guess I will just have to wait and see what comes of it before I purchase a number 16 jersey. In reality they should rename the team the Cleveland Cribbs, he is the heart and soul of this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Ok so I looked up one of the other former top-tier kick returners of our time Devin Hester Year Team Base Salary Sign Bonus Other Bonus Total Salary Cap Value Position 2009 Bears $ 550,000 $ 0 $ 5,200,000 $ 5,750,000 $ 6,885,833 WR 2008 Bears $ 445,000 $ 5,000,000 $ 47,500 $ 5,492,500 $ 1,628,333 WR I think he got a new contract after the 2007 season when he was in the Pro Bowl Josh Cribbs Year Team Base Salary Sign Bonus Other Bonus Total Salary Cap Value Position 2009 Browns $ 620,000 $ 0 $ 25,000 $ 645,000 $ 1,045,000 WR 2008 Browns $ 620,000 $ 2,000,000 $ 25,000 $ 645,000 $ 1,045,000 WR And because someone else brought it up: Ryan Pontbriand Year Team Base Salary Sign Bonus Other Bonus Total Salary Cap Value Position 2009 Browns $ 715,000 $ 0 $ 105,000 $ 820,000 $ 1,040,000 OL 2008 Browns $ 650,000 $ 1,100,000 $ 4,105,000 $ 4,755,000 $ 4,975,000 OL So the highest paid KR of our time makes approx 5 mil a year. The best KR ever in the NFL makes 645k and the long snapper on the same team makes $820k this year and $4.8 mil last year. I wouldn't walk away from a $1.4 mil offer, I'd run. And I'd do everything I could to make this management look like the scumbag pimps they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 In case anyone else wants to look up more players to compare: http://content.usatoday.com/sports/footbal...aspx?Loc=Vanity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yosemitejam Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 You can't handle the truth!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterbell Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 All things considered, I'm shocked by how cocky the Browns are. Are you seriously refusing to pay your best player? Get over yourself, the man has earned a raise. Pay him what he's worth and shut up. Mangini already gave this place a bad rep among free agents with his little extra practice, i mean injury sessions. Now you're sending the message that you won't pay your own guys what they're worth. You wouldn't keep Quinn in to avoid paying him either. This franchise is becoming embarrassing. Jeez tdubs, there's so many things wrong in you're badly worded paragraph I don't know where to begin. This is Holmgrens call now, 0 to do with Mangini. No FA's?..The cap was a mess, we couldn't afford any big time FA's..thanks Phil S. The "opportunity periods" were for younger players not vets..How did that work out for us at the end of the year? Quinn would have gotten his esculators if he didn't get hurt..AGAIN..we should pay him per completion..lol FYI..Cribbs has 3 YEARS left..no one held a gun to his head to sign the last deal..really Cribbs is a great player ,but this issue is Cribbs fault Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 In the time I have known you I haven't known you to make unfair comments or comparisons, so I will assume you just got caught up in the moment. Sorry if I did but what was unfair? It was pretty much what Holmgren said. I don't like the public bellyaching though I do like Cribbs a lot. I think the grousing and threatening to go on strike is counter productive. I guess the market will bear out whether the team is unfair when someone gives us a #1 and pays him 5 mil a year. But like somebody said sooner or later everybody just kicks the other way. Should Harrison now get Adrian Peterson money? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffer X Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Sorry if I did but what was unfair? It was pretty much what Holmgren said. I don't like the public bellyaching though I do like Cribbs a lot. I think the grousing and threatening to go on strike is counter productive. I guess the market will bear out whether the team is unfair when someone gives us a #1 and pays him 5 mil a year. But like somebody said sooner or later everybody just kicks the other way. Should Harrison now get Adrian Peterson money? WSS Steve shoot me an email rhansonjr@neo.rr.com if interested in potential Akron gig down in Valley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATENEARS Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 (career numbers below) Hester RECEIVING: 128 catches for 1721-yrds, 8-TD's Cribbs RECEIVING: 36 catches for 288-yrds, 2-TD's Hester PUNT RETURN: 145 rtrns for 1636-yrds (11.3 avg), 7-TD's Cribbs PUNT RETURN: 103 rtrns for 1141-yrds (7.9 avg), 2-TD's Hester KICK RETURN: 101 rtrns for 2297-yrds (22.7 avg), 4-TD's Cribbs KICK RETURN: 262 rtrns for 7049-yrds (26.6 avg), 8-TD's Hester RUSHING: 18 carries for 50-yrds, 0-TD's Cribbs RUSHING: 95 carries for 620-yrds, 2-TD's Where does Cribbs fit-in in comparison to Hester? That is the million dollar question. Now ask yourselves, how long do players last as Punt & Kick Returners? How important are ANY yards, no matter where they come from? Cribbs totals 9098-yrds, Hester just 5704-yrds from above totals. Do you think Holmgren will continue to run the WildDawg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydenFox Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Jeez tdubs, there's so many things wrong in you're badly worded paragraph I don't know where to begin. This is Holmgrens call now, 0 to do with Mangini. No FA's?..The cap was a mess, we couldn't afford any big time FA's..thanks Phil S. The "opportunity periods" were for younger players not vets..How did that work out for us at the end of the year? Quinn would have gotten his esculators if he didn't get hurt..AGAIN..we should pay him per completion..lol FYI..Cribbs has 3 YEARS left..no one held a gun to his head to sign the last deal..really Cribbs is a great player ,but this issue is Cribbs fault Exactly Peterbell! You are spot on!!! There are so many people that just dont get it!!!! They'll take whatever they read or hear in the media and eat it for breakfast lunch and dinner!!! Team was a absolute mess with no cap space and very little draft picks with a roster that was inherited that may have been the least talented in the nfl, and if not, definately in the bottom 5! With what coach Mangini had to work with he has done an excellent job and laid the foundation. Even though jets fans wouldnt admit it he is the reason why they are what they are now! A team with lots of talent that will be a perennial playoff contender in the upcoming years because of the guys he brought in over there over the past three years. He built that team to have a solid defense and a mauling run game. Now they have the number 1 defense and the number 1 run game! Mainly because of a team built over the last three years with a lot of depth and good use of clearing cap space so there was money available to bring the big free agents in down the road. That is exactly the direction and same thing we are seeing here now and within the next couple of years likely where the cleveland browns will be and i love it. Enough of my rant on that as i know this is a cribbs post. The cribbs situation is his own fault. He should be glad that the browns are even trying to renegotiate his contract because they certainly dont have to. Having said that i agree that his performance does merrit more money and i think that our first offer came in low but that is negotiating! If he was that appauled by that offer than cribbs is being unreasonable. People need to be patient and not jump off on things right away this is negotiating we dont have a gm yet, why should the browns offer him all the money he wants right away when the guy is already under contract. Now everyones worried he is definately gone. This reminds me of when everyone wanted mangini fired right after just 3 games. People just dont get it!!!! Show some patience things will get worked out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 There's a few items that hold no weight in any contractual argument in the NFL. 1. Contracts aren't guarenteed, unlike the NBA. Teams can cut you at several different times during the year and only have your salary count against the cap, they don't have to pay you. If you don't play up to snuff, your cut, you don't get anything from the remaining years of your contract. 2. If you get injured, you get a settlement, not the whole amount of the remaining years of your contract. 3. The career lifespan of an NFL player is short. They have no option but to get as much money as possible in the few short years they have the ability to play. No one is going to play for free, just for the honor of being in the NFL. Everyone here would do the exact same thing. 4. Teams renegotiate contracts daily to adjust to salary cap, changing salaries of other players, and general interest in saving money. Its not uncommon to change a long-term contract after 1 year or 2 years. Almost all contracts are extended before the original one expires. If they were not, the team couldn't restrict other teams from signing the player. In all seriousness, this is a business. Both sides have an interest, one to make as much as possible and one to pay as few dollars as possible. There are at least 53 other players with contracts, all of which are different lengths and amounts and conditions. Its not an easy job to juggle all of this, but that's why Dawn and whomever else is employed by the team. The fact remains that you have to make sure your best players are happy, and that can be done fairly with a salary that is appropriate to their contribution to the team. Everyone knows that Josh is one of the biggest contributors to the team. Other teams must gameplan around him. The gameplan changes when he's on the field, whether that's offense or special teams, he's an impact player that stats alone can't justify. You don't pay your impact players $1.4 mil, that's just reality. Personally I don't think $2.5 mil is enough either but apparently his agent does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdogrowz Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Interesting point brought up by Doerschuk at the Canton Repository. The agent for Josh Cribbs (Schaffer) is also the agent for Joe Thomas. Doesn't mean we won't eventually get something done with JC, but we are talking about a lot more cake than just the one contract here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardiac Kid Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 He's been asking for a new contract since the RAC/Savage era, then again when Mangini came.... now Holmgren. He's been playing for 4th string QB money. Everyone knows he is underpaid. Pay the man, and lets move on... simple. He won all 5 games for us this year... simple! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeBest2 Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 He's been asking for a new contract since the RAC/Savage era, then again when Mangini came.... now Holmgren. He's been playing for 4th string QB money. Everyone knows he is underpaid. Pay the man, and lets move on... simple. He wont all 5 games for us this year... simple! or he could just stay committed to the contract HE agreed to play for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Joe Thomas was a top 3? draft pick. Cribbs wasn't drafted, right? Back then, he signed an entry level, security contract. If I were Cribbs, I'd take the 1.4 million and do a happy dance in the coming years. Since when does an undrafted *STAR* sneeze at 1.4 million, when he isn't any FA? If the Browns will only double his salary, then why not just keep quiet, and let your agent renegotiate you contract for a shorter term or something? Using the fans and media for leverage is unbecoming a star special player who LOVES being a CLEVELAND BROWN, and came into the league undrafted. I mean, seriously, Mr. Cribbs - Love ya, man, but that's a hell of a nice raise already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonedawg Posted January 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Joe Thomas was a top 3? draft pick. Cribbs wasn't drafted, right? Back then, he signed an entry level, security contract. If I were Cribbs, I'd take the 1.4 million and do a happy dance in the coming years. Since when does an undrafted *STAR* sneeze at 1.4 million, when he isn't any FA? If the Browns will only double his salary, then why not just keep quiet, and let your agent renegotiate you contract for a shorter term or something? Using the fans and media for leverage is unbecoming a star special player who LOVES being a CLEVELAND BROWN, and came into the league undrafted. I mean, seriously, Mr. Cribbs - Love ya, man, but that's a hell of a nice raise already. Maybe Cribbs is taking too much career advice from Dieon "Pay the Man" Sanders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 (career numbers below) Hester RECEIVING: 128 catches for 1721-yrds, 8-TD's Cribbs RECEIVING: 36 catches for 288-yrds, 2-TD's Hester PUNT RETURN: 145 rtrns for 1636-yrds (11.3 avg), 7-TD's Cribbs PUNT RETURN: 103 rtrns for 1141-yrds (7.9 avg), 2-TD's Hester KICK RETURN: 101 rtrns for 2297-yrds (22.7 avg), 4-TD's Cribbs KICK RETURN: 262 rtrns for 7049-yrds (26.6 avg), 8-TD's Hester RUSHING: 18 carries for 50-yrds, 0-TD's Cribbs RUSHING: 95 carries for 620-yrds, 2-TD's Where does Cribbs fit-in in comparison to Hester? That is the million dollar question. Now ask yourselves, how long do players last as Punt & Kick Returners? How important are ANY yards, no matter where they come from? Cribbs totals 9098-yrds, Hester just 5704-yrds from above totals. Do you think Holmgren will continue to run the WildDawg? Good comparison, Cribbs signed the contract for multiple years and they want to double his salary? He should take it. Just maybe he should counter offer before yelping and then maybe they will throw some guarantted money his way in a signing bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erie Dawg Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 No FA's?..The cap was a mess, we couldn't afford any big time FA's..thanks Phil S. The "opportunity periods" were for younger players not vets..How did that work out for us at the end of the year? And lets not forget that we paid RAC 4 mil last year (4yrs left on contract) to sit on his ass and recover from hip surgery. Then if we fire E.M. there is another few million out the window. So we could have millions of dollars tied up in coaches that are getting paid to just go away. The only hope we have of getting any relief from this is hope that both E.M. and RAC get another job this year. Is RAC going to take a job with the chiefs for less money or take the 16mil over the next few years, and the amount of potential coaching vacancy's that are out there this year, I don't see E.M. finding a new home, so we could possibly be paying 2 ex coaches millions to sit. WTF! But lets really low ball our offer too our "proven" best player. It makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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