Holmgren dodges Quinn question, again

[roach]

Since when is it predetermined that DA is favored by teammates and coaches?

 

Seems to me that has been propagated by a few members on this board and is now being construed as fact.

 

Can someone supply evidence of this supposed fact?

 

The coach part is obvious. If they favored Quinn, they would have annointed him (or at least stuck with him at the beginning of the season). The teammate part is less scientific and based on antecdotal evidence.

[mopaji]

You're not missing anything.

 

i've been following the Browns since Ernie Green gave up his body to block for Jim Brown, and this QB situation is the weirdest thing i can remember. Never can i recall a situation where the coaches and the teammates favor a certain player that the fans despise, while the competing player is a fan favorite that the coaches and team seem indifferent on. It is bizarre.

 

If Quinn was that good, it would be a no-brainer to annoint him. If DA was that bad, it would be a no-brainer to cut him. That predicament has been around for a couple seasons now.

You said it all right there. You'll be challenged, don't take the bait. You'll be talking to a wall and eventually, someone will resort to name calling.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

The coach part is obvious. If they favored Quinn, they would have annointed him (or at least stuck with him at the beginning of the season). The teammate part is less scientific and based on antecdotal evidence.

 

 

You seem to forget that DA was pulled after 5 1/2 games himself, and got his job back only because BQ got put on IR. The coaches pulled the plug on both QB's, I think it's kind of hard to guess which one is the favorite.

 

My guess is that their favorite would be the guy that wins games, whoever that may be.

[LCDawgFan13]

Actually, in his first presser he was asked about the QBs and he mentioned that he remembers DA killing his hawks in 07.

 

~See there's your answer...Quinn didn't get any playing time in '07 so he had nothing to comment on.~ Seriously, why are we even arguing over something that WASN'T said?! Give the guy some time! A lot of people thought that Mangini was gone because Holmgren didn't come out right away and say he was staying. Look how that turned out. He will not make a snap decision or snap judgement. If he doesn't know the answer to the question, he will not make something up just so the press has something to write! When he feels he has enough info on Quinn, he'll talk!

 

Oh yeah...the ~'s are a good idea for sarcasm. There are too many people that don't seem to understand sarcasm when it smacks them in the face.

[mopaji]

~See there's your answer...Quinn didn't get any playing time in '07 so he had nothing to comment on.~ Seriously, why are we even arguing over something that WASN'T said?! Give the guy some time! A lot of people thought that Mangini was gone because Holmgren didn't come out right away and say he was staying. Look how that turned out. He will not make a snap decision or snap judgement. If he doesn't know the answer to the question, he will not make something up just so the press has something to write! When he feels he has enough info on Quinn, he'll talk!

 

Oh yeah...the ~'s are a good idea for sarcasm. There are too many people that don't seem to understand sarcasm when it smacks them in the face.

 

Only the media thought he was gone because they were hoping with all they had that he was because Berea wasn't leaking any information on anything. So, they want a more user-friendly coach in that building. If the media couldn't tell us which foot Brady hurt, what makes you think they had any sources as to whether or not Mangini would be retained?

 

Back to the point though, Holmgren has admitted twice now that he has seen film of Brady but still refuses to say anything about him. Since he is in fact a straight shooter, you would think he would at least say something like 'I see some good things there" or at least " I haven't watched the film yet" but no, he instead dodges the question. Also, when asked about the QB situation in general HE harkened back to 2007 and gave DA props. He didn't have to do that. He could have said "I haven't seen enough yet" but instead took it as a chance to compliment DA and didn't even whisper an acknowledgement of Brady Quinn. You're right, Quinn didn't play in 2007 but neither did Bart Star, Dan Marino, or even Tony Eason, but you can watch film on him and have some sort of opinion. The fact that Holmgren, the QB guru, has nothing to say I think is very telling. He has also seen enough on Quinn to want to sit down and talk with him but he acts like he's never heard of him? Come on man. I hold onto my stance that Brady will be traded as soon as the league allows it. This not telling is just more evidence that that is a real strong possibility. I'm saying that as a Browns fan, not as a "my guy is better than your guy" fan.

 

[LCDawgFan13]

Only the media thought he was gone because they were hoping with all they had that he was because Berea wasn't leaking any information on anything. So, they want a more user-friendly coach in that building. If the media couldn't tell us which foot Brady hurt, what makes you think they had any sources as to whether or not Mangini would be retained?

 

Back to the point though, Holmgren has admitted twice now that he has seen film of Brady but still refuses to say anything about him. Since he is in fact a straight shooter, you would think he would at least say something like 'I see some good things there" or at least " I haven't watched the film yet" but no, he instead dodges the question. Also, when asked about the QB situation in general HE harkened back to 2007 and gave DA props. He didn't have to do that. He could have said "I haven't seen enough yet" but instead took it as a chance to compliment DA and didn't even whisper an acknowledgement of Brady Quinn. You're right, Quinn didn't play in 2007 but neither did Bart Star, Dan Marino, or even Tony Eason, but you can watch film on him and have some sort of opinion. The fact that Holmgren, the QB guru, has nothing to say I think is very telling. He has also seen enough on Quinn to want to sit down and talk with him but he acts like he's never heard of him? Come on man. I hold onto my stance that Brady will be traded as soon as the league allows it. This not telling is just more evidence that that is a real strong possibility. I'm saying that as a Browns fan, not as a "my guy is better than your guy" fan.

 

Are you serious? Comparing 2 guys competing now to 3 guys that have long been retired? THat makes NO sense when arguing this subject. We are talking about comparing 2 guys...one that has had multiple seasons to prove that he is anything but a one year...no wait...an eight game wonder (as the end of '07 was not all the wonderful for DA) and another QB that has been in the league but had very little playing time (albeit that he did get some significant time this past season, but nothing compared to DA's total body of work in quantity). If we were discussing historical QB's, and comparing them to QB's today, then you have a case. We're not. Are Starr, Marino, or Eason coming back to compete for the starting spot on this team? Uhh...no. Again no relevence. I don't really care who the QB of this team will be as long as they put wins on the board. Bring back Charlie Frye...Tim Couch...throw Bernie back in there! Whatever! As long as they put up wins. All I am saying is that you cannot make any ASSumption based off of something that HAS NOT BEEN SAID! Yes, there is the POSSIBILITY that Quinn will not be back...as there is the POSSIBILITY that DA will not return. Hell, they BOTH may be out the door! Until it happens, let's give Holmgren the chance to make the decision. He's barely been here a week!

 

~By the way, has he mentioned anything about Ryan Pontbriand? Nope? Oh man, that means our most consistant long snapper must be leaving too.~ Is that really the way we should take everything NOT said?

[Drunkandstoopid]

I don't really care who the QB of this team will be as long as they put wins on the board. Bring back Charlie Frye...Tim Couch...throw Bernie back in there! Whatever! As long as they put up wins.

 

If only the guys you mentioned bringing back had better win records than DA.... Bernie does edge him, but it took about 9 years. If you go back and look at Kosar and Sipe, they're all of one or two games over 500 with the Browns, there's a Qb on the roster only one game under 500 as a starter and he had a loss given to him (should've been a tie) in Cincy by the refs and doesn't get credit for the come from behind win he engineered in his debut. Sad to say... but no QB for the Browns has put wins on the board in decades.

[mopaji]

Are you serious? Comparing 2 guys competing now to 3 guys that have long been retired? THat makes NO sense when arguing this subject. We are talking about comparing 2 guys...

 

The reason I brought up the retired guys was because there is film on them just as there is on Quinn. Holmgren has admitted he has seen it. None of them played in 2007 but you still know how they play. I thought my point was obvious. And let's not forget, Quinn played a lot of 2008. You mean to tell me after watching the film he has no opinion on a QB when he himself admitteed that he "knows QBs"? In fact he mentioned that while answering the Quinn question. He could be playing it safe but I find it curious that when asked about certain players he had something to say but not on Quinn.

 

All I am saying is that you cannot make any ASSumption based off of something that HAS NOT BEEN SAID! Yes, there is the POSSIBILITY that Quinn will not be back...as there is the POSSIBILITY that DA will not return. Hell, they BOTH may be out the door! Until it happens, let's give Holmgren the chance to make the decision. He's barely been here a week!

 

There is a possibility that nobody can return but Holmgren wasn't asked about everyone directly. He was asked about Quinn, twice, and he dodged it. Again, very curious. So yes, one can assume there is something to the intentional silence. It just makes too much sense to dismiss.

 

 

~By the way, has he mentioned anything about Ryan Pontbriand? Nope? Oh man, that means our most consistant long snapper must be leaving too.~ Is that really the way we should take everything NOT said?

 

He wasn't asked about Pontbriand. That doesn't make any sense. Its not a generalization its an observation based on two seperate yet distinct occasions. Since when have intuition, observation, experience, common sense, and true events been ineffective means of drawing a conclusion? Oh that's right, when you enter the decision making process with an agenda and/or bias.

 

 

This may hurt a little but after Holmgren decided to keep Mangini, I truely believe he knows exactly what he's doing and what is best for this team. And based on Quinn's blatent lack of all things quarterback and Holmgren's non-answers, I have to believe that he is going to be shipping the guy out of town. Hence the "tough decisions" he mentioned that the media sited as "sources" that Mangini would be fired. It is well documented that I believe DA to be the better QB but that has nothing to do with the evidence that Holmgren is not a fan of Quinn. Its a slow time for football stories and this one seems to be the most compelling so far. DA not so compelling, Quinn is a hot button and I think it worth noting that Holmgren has chosen "no comment" when asked about him.

[WebsterSlaughter]

He wasn't asked about Pontbriand. That doesn't make any sense. Its not a generalization its an observation based on two seperate yet distinct occasions. Since when have intuition, observation, experience, common sense, and true events been ineffective means of drawing a conclusion? Oh that's right, when you enter the decision making process with an agenda and/or bias.

 

 

This may hurt a little but after Holmgren decided to keep Mangini, I truely believe he knows exactly what he's doing and what is best for this team. And based on Quinn's blatent lack of all things quarterback and Holmgren's non-answers, I have to believe that he is going to be shipping the guy out of town. Hence the "tough decisions" he mentioned that the media sited as "sources" that Mangini would be fired. It is well documented that I believe DA to be the better QB but that has nothing to do with the evidence that Holmgren is not a fan of Quinn. Its a slow time for football stories and this one seems to be the most compelling so far. DA not so compelling, Quinn is a hot button and I think it worth noting that Holmgren has chosen "no comment" when asked about him.

 

How can you possibly believe DA to be the better QB. DA perform exceptionally bad this year. Much worse than Quinn. Even worse than Jamarcus Russell. DA is pure trash. Just accept it please. He's fools gold. Somehow he continues to trick people into thinking he has potential.

[mopaji]

How can you possibly believe DA to be the better QB. DA perform exceptionally bad this year. Much worse than Quinn. Even worse than Jamarcus Russell. DA is pure trash. Just accept it please. He's fools gold. Somehow he continues to trick people into thinking he has potential.

I never said DA was good. I said he's better than Quinn.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

I never said DA was good. I said he's better than Quinn.

 

 

That's a stretch. They're both equally terrible.

[WebsterSlaughter]

That's a stretch. They're both equally terrible.

 

Both bad, yes. But DA is much worse. But at least Quinn threw more touchdowns than interceptions this year. DA threw at least 1 interception in every game he played this year except for the game against the Raiders. That's unprecedented terrible play. not to mention the fact that DA completed less than 50% of his passes this year. He played worse than Jamarcus Russell. DA is much worse than Quinn. 2/17 passing is all you need to know.

[Canton Mike]

I don't see as Holmgren as having "dodged" anything. I just feel he will not blurt out opinions until he is sure what he is discussing.

 

My take...

Do we have a management team with knowledge & successful experience?...YEP

Do I trust them?...YEP

Do they know more than I?...YEP (MUCH, MUCH more!)

 

All the above translates to my feeling that the Browns are in excellent hands & any questioning of their actions/decisions at this point is premature to say the least. Once again folks,in all probability we won't have a Super Bowl team in a year, but we are DEFINITELY headed in a very positive direction. The foundation is now solid.

 

Mike

 

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Both bad, yes. But DA is much worse. But at least Quinn threw more touchdowns than interceptions this year. DA threw at least 1 interception in every game he played this year except for the game against the Raiders. That's unprecedented terrible play. not to mention the fact that DA completed less than 50% of his passes this year. He played worse than Jamarcus Russell. DA is much worse than Quinn. 2/17 passing is all you need to know.

 

 

Granted, Quinn's 6-for-19 performance against Pittsburgh wasn't that much better. On both occasions, Quinn's and Anderson's, they were saved by other facets of the game. In Anderson's case, he was saved by Buffalo's complete ineptitude. In Quinn's case, he was saved by Cleveland's defense stepping up and putting a hurtin' on Roethlisberger.

[mopaji]

I don't see as Holmgren as having "dodged" anything. I just feel he will not blurt out opinions until he is sure what he is discussing.

 

My take...

Do we have a management team with knowledge & successful experience?...YEP

Do I trust them?...YEP

Do they know more than I?...YEP (MUCH, MUCH more!)

 

All the above translates to my feeling that the Browns are in excellent hands & any questioning of their actions/decisions at this point is premature to say the least. Once again folks,in all probability we won't have a Super Bowl team in a year, but we are DEFINITELY headed in a very positive direction. The foundation is now solid.

 

Mike

Thanks for ending this thread!

[ballpeen]

Both bad, yes. But DA is much worse. But at least Quinn threw more touchdowns than interceptions this year. DA threw at least 1 interception in every game he played this year except for the game against the Raiders. That's unprecedented terrible play. not to mention the fact that DA completed less than 50% of his passes this year. He played worse than Jamarcus Russell. DA is much worse than Quinn. 2/17 passing is all you need to know.

 

 

All that doesn't matter and you obviously have never been around scouts, or understand scouting and what people look for.

 

 

It's all about ceiling and projectability....DA has the ceiling and projectability coaches and scouts love...BQ doesn't.

 

 

BQ had the "intangibles" which isn't much and should show up right away.

 

 

Long term, with nearly any coach, DA gets the nod.

 

[Drunkandstoopid]

I never said DA was good. I said he's better than Quinn.

If Quinn ends up gone in the next several months and DA remains a Brown, you'll see the same posters stating as fact that the only reason for it was his hurt foot hurt his opportunity and the team management felt they needed at least one familiar face competing for the job rather than the team management decided DA might be better for the team as it now stands.

 

I'm sure Holmgren will sit down and look at what both QBs had to work with .... WHEN THEY WERE ACTUALLY PLAYING.... I know that's a huge concept to grasp for many on the board, but this team basically retooled a time or two during the season... QBs changed, linemen changed, receivers completely changed.... the only time either Browns QB played with lineups they'd really practiced with for three or more weeks was the first three weeks of the season and the last 4-5 weeks of the season. That doesn't leave a whole lot to draw on, but I bet the team management is better at piciking it apart than the casual fan.

 

No telling whether both of these Qbs are off the roster next year, but I bet one of them is.

[Riffer X]

If Quinn ends up gone in the next several months and DA remains a Brown, you'll see the same posters stating as fact that the only reason for it was his hurt foot hurt his opportunity and the team management felt they needed at least one familiar face competing for the job rather than the team management decided DA might be better for the team as it now stands.

 

I'm sure Holmgren will sit down and look at what both QBs had to work with .... WHEN THEY WERE ACTUALLY PLAYING.... I know that's a huge concept to grasp for many on the board, but this team basically retooled a time or two during the season... QBs changed, linemen changed, receivers completely changed.... the only time either Browns QB played with lineups they'd really practiced with for three or more weeks was the first three weeks of the season and the last 4-5 weeks of the season. That doesn't leave a whole lot to draw on, but I bet the team management is better at piciking it apart than the casual fan.

 

No telling whether both of these Qbs are off the roster next year, but I bet one of them is.

 

I know one thing Drunky, that DA really sucks.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

All that doesn't matter and you obviously have never been around scouts, or understand scouting and what people look for.

 

 

It's all about ceiling and projectability....DA has the ceiling and projectability coaches and scouts love...BQ doesn't.

 

 

BQ had the "intangibles" which isn't much and should show up right away.

 

 

Long term, with nearly any coach, DA gets the nod.

 

 

Why does DA have the higher ceiling? Just because he has the bigger arm? I don't know if I believe that. Remember, you can't teach QB vision.

 

If anything, I'd say they have an equal ceiling, just in two different offensive formats.

[rich4eagle]

When asked what he thought after watching the film on Quinn, Holmgren answered by talking about his injury instead of any type of analysis. Although did mention that he does know QBs. I still strongly believe his "tough decision" is trading Quinn. What do you all think of his reluctance to comment on Quinn? Especially when he has no problem at least complimenting Cribbs, Harrison, and fan favorite, DA.

 

 

Brady Quinn will never be a championship QB, book it. If that is what we want he is the guy. Otherwise trade him and move on and same with Anderson

[mopaji]

How is it that some people on here can tell if a college QB is going to be good based on that player playing with teammates who will be selling insurance in 6 months, bad opponates, and ZERO NFL games played to draw on? Yet they still use the argument that Quinn hasn't played enough or that his supporting cast was lackluster at best? What more do you, or more importantly Holmgren have to see before its settled that Quinn can't play in this league? Now, by saying Quinn can't play in this leaugue I am by no means saying that DA is Drew Bree I'm only trying to say that Quinn will not and should not be here next year. DA, I couldn't care less at this point. But if we do have to keep one why not have it be the guy who has been in 5 different offensive systems in 4 years yet has shown he can shoot the lights out when comfortable? And clearly has all of the physical tools to play in this league, instead of the handsome hometown guy who uses his law degree to charm fans and media yet has ZERO essential NFL tools and has NEVER displayed any ability to play and be effective in this league? Why is this even a debate anymore?

 

 

With that said, I want to reignite my wish last year around the trade deadline,

 

Heckert! Bring me Kevin Kolb!!!

[WebsterSlaughter]

All that doesn't matter and you obviously have never been around scouts, or understand scouting and what people look for.

 

 

It's all about ceiling and projectability....DA has the ceiling and projectability coaches and scouts love...BQ doesn't.

 

 

BQ had the "intangibles" which isn't much and should show up right away.

 

 

Long term, with nearly any coach, DA gets the nod.

 

What do you know about scouting? Obviously nothing. That's why scouts suggested DA be selected on the 2nd day of the draft. That's why DA was cut by the Baltimore Ravens. DA is not good. He had a few fluke games 1 year and has never come close to duplicating his performance. He's never even completed 60% of his passes at any level since high school. He still throws tons of INT's. Look where a high ceiling and project-ability got Jamarcus Russel. Your analysis is foolish.

[Kosar_For_President]

Why does everyone insist on fighting over the 2 fat ugly girls at the dance?

[Mark O]

Because they're the only 2 girls at the dance....

[kshutchins]

Because they have good character, pleasing personalities and lots of potential.