Barry

To hell with that. Tell the kid to have his birthday on another day! 😉

Great answer. Yes, there is always the question of whether one finds 'hidden value' in focusing on one metric or whether they do so at their own peril, as you suggest. I can't help but compare DePodesta's approach with what he did in baseball. He was a big proponent of using on-base percentage (OBP) as a key metric in determining success, and it works. But unlike football, OBP is much easier statistic to work with than anything in football, as it's binary- you either get on base or you don't. For example, it almost doesn't matter if a batter can hit a curve ball or not, or whether he is strong with inside pitches and weak with outside ones, etc. Because the bottom line is how many times is he able to reach base. (Yes, it's possible to improve an OBP if you improve his ability to hit a curve ball but you are now getting further away from the key metric). In football there are a lot more factors, as you suggest, Kizer being a great example. If you were to simplify it into one sentence for a player you could ask, for example, "Is Phillips' tackling percentage related to his being able to diagnose plays quickly, or is it the 'D'Quell' factor?" or "Does Delpit's coverage skills make up for his lack of tackling ability (and if its correctable)?" In other words do their strengths mask, or outweigh, their weaknesses? At that point you then think about scheme and what your demands will be with him, etc. So returning back to the Brown's FO, we see their devotion to certain metrics. It's worth noting that PFF's top players in recent drafts have fared no better than other prognosticators' picks, however (at least that's what I read on here). What will be interesting to see this coming year is how successful the FO is in integrating the other factors into a player's evaluation and seeing the results.

Jordan Elliott’s 91.4 PFF pass-rush grade since 2017 ranked 1st among NFL Draft DTs Delpit forced incompletions at a higher rate than any other top safety in the NFL Draft. Jacob Phillips was the best tackler in college football last year. And of course Wills is arguably the best OT to come out this year. Looks like our FO is laser-focused on certain qualities at each position and goes from there.

PFF Draft Board ranks of the Browns draft picks: 11. Jedrick Wills Jr. 15. Grant Delpit 23. Jordan Elliott Only team to take 3 top-25 players that was on their board

From PFF: Phillips missed only 3 of 88 tackle attempts this year.

Taking a long time. Maybe the pick is refusing to answer the phone.

That's why they rent and don't buy. 😁

Sorry, but this is starting to feel like past drafts, with the exception that we maybe got a stud in the 1st round. After that, we get a guy who we have to convince ourselves might be good and then we have a bunch of 'let's see what happens next year's'.

Browns trade: Pick 74 and 244. Saints trade: Pick 88 and a 2021 third-round pick. Didn't Berry say there was a lot of talent in this draft?

It would be a budget move Gip. With an all LSU and Wisconsin defense think of all the money the Browns would have saved next year on scouting costs since they only have to visit 2 colleges.

Not to be confused with orange kool-aid 😊

Yea...see my edit. Yikes.

Does anyone know what a decent missed tackling rate is? Delpit has averaged ~19-25%. I know that's bad but am wondering how bad it is. Edit- Just found something. In 2015 the Saints were the worse tackling team in the NFL at 13.6%. (Btw the Browns were best that year). 20% not good at all.

There is no doubting his coverage skills.

FWIW here is a comment on Delpit I found on another website (don't know if I can list it here or not). I found it interesting. We know about his injury but it sounds like it was a bit worse than is generally thought: ".... my daughter’s husband is on the training staff at LSU, and he just texted me saying he played the majority of the season at far less than 100%. He was advised to shut down for 6-8 weeks but wanted to play the season out."

With Greedy, Delpit and Ward we will match up well in coverage. But except for Joseph I don't have a good feeling about our ability to stop Baltimore or plays close to the LOS...yet.

One of the key questions for tonight: Do we want teams to jump us so that they can take an OT and we hope someone like Simmons or Brown or Okbuh drops to us, or do we risk that happening and find that the top 3 Qbs, Simmons, Okudah, Young and Brown, and top 2 OT are gone by the time we pick?

The reason I say that is the many rumors about us willing to trade down, and the fact that we went hard after Clowney and Williams. Clowney = a willingness to pay a lot to upgrade the DL and trading for Williams = willingness to pay a lot in $ and picks instead of drafting one of the top OTs. But you could be right. We'll know in a few hours!

I just have a feeling that the defensive line or Simmons will be our #1 priority, then OT.

Considering this front office loves draft picks that just screams other direction.

If the rumors about the Browns putting an offer on the table for Williams are true, or at least that they have done some serious talking about it, then that is a sure-tell sign that they are willing to draft their LT for the future in the 2nd round or lower. Because they aren't going to get Williams AND draft an LT at #10. If they feel that way, then I think it's reasonable to think that if their player is there at 10 who is not a LT e.g. Simmons or maybe Brown (my favorite and who I think is a sleeper for the Browns' pick), that they would select that player and get their LT in the 2nd round. More likely, though, it looks as if they will be looking to trade down and grab their LT with the 15th pick or around there, and take the extra selections. But one thing is for sure, imo, and that is they are not locked into getting a LT at #10 at all, unless they can't trade down and there are no good alternatives available.

I doubt there is anyone on here arguing that we pay Williams top $ for 4 years. That's not even an issue.If you would read between the lines you could guess that the Browns already discussed a shorter, less expensive contract with his agent, or else they wouldn't have offered to trade for him (unless they are unbelievably stupid). Just like it's not an issue whether Conklin can play LT or not. As far as I''m concerned I would never risk putting him there, because there is no way I would use the excuse that if he played it more than 5 years ago in college he must be decent at it in the pros, as a possible player to put in on Baker's blind side. That's why I said I would only get Williams if we got a decent LT as a back-up, for example Peters.

Ok, the AV is what I was afraid it might be. Imo the most important value one can choose when evaluating a player is how they compare with their peers. We all know that starters are not all created equal when some start on bad teams and some start on good teams. And yes, PFF mentions this but it's only lip service. They did not include it in their analysis, unless I missed it, so I am inclined to not depend on this analysis too much. But then it raises the question of how to value a drafted player? I would suggest 3 factors and let's use Kirksey as an example: 1) The player's pay level in relation to others players at his position. What better way to determine a guy's worth than using the results of Kirksey's agent saying "My guy is better than x,y and z so should be getting paid more" and the other side saying "No, Kirksey is not as good as x,y, z so he shouldn't get paid as much"? While salary is continually being adjusted, you can take the average salary ranking of a player during their career in comparison to his peers playing the same position. 2) Where his team has drafted other players who play his position. For example, if the Browns drafted Kirksey and 2 years later draft another outside LB in round 3, then that might suggest that they are looking to upgrade that position. If they didn't draft his replacement until his 4th year, then he should have greater value, as it is reflective of his play. Granted there is a lot of grey area here, e.g. I would suggest that you only consider Rounds 1-3 for obvious reason. Also, the team drafting might be looking for someone to fill in on the other side (e.g. another outside LB), in which case you need to drill a little bit to evaluate why another LB in this case was drafted. Trading for someone to replace Kirksey would also be considered. 3) Pro-Bowls. Maybe I missed something as I didn't read PFF's explanation as carefully as I could have, but I do know that there is no way that the Browns had the 9th best draft results according to the current system. Their record just doesn't show it. One day I might use this system I just explained to evaluate guys and see how it comes out.

Conklin played RT exclusively for 4 years at Tennessee. If you put him in at LT and Hubbard at RT you are essentially weakening 2 positions and not improving a hell of a lot more than last year. This is what I'd like to see: 1) If they can work out a decent deal, then trade for Williams. 2) Sign Jason Peters as back-up. He is 38 and made $3.5 million last year. Both salary and age will be compatible for both Peters and Browns as a LT back-up. 3) Assuming you get a decent offer, trade back from 10 to ~15 (with Denver or Atlanta, etc.) 4) Draft all defense and a good OT with your picks 5) Win the Super Bowl Note- This also gives you flexibility the following year in case your rookie LT can't fit in right away. Everyone just assumes that a highly rated LT will be successful immediately. That's not necessarily true.

Sorry, what's PFR CA ? Players from California? 😎