MH must decide if BQ is worth the time

[SJ_Browns]

http://www.cantonrep.com/browns/x165024472...-worth-the-time

 

BEREA — Brady Quinn is not alone, still one of several options in the Cleveland Browns quarterback whirl.

 

Yet, as Mike Holmgren braces himself for free agency, the trade market and the NFL Draft, Quinn is the focus of one of Holmgren’s most crucial questions in his first year as team president:

 

Should Quinn be the quarterback in 2010?

 

“I’ve met him one time,” Holmgren said Thursday. “He seems very sincere. I think he’s a hard-working guy. I think he cares. He’s physically kind of what you want, so ... I would ask the question that probably fans would ask. I’m going, OK ... what’s happened? And that’s what I’m trying to figure out.”

 

One option is for Cleveland to spend the No. 7 overall pick on a quarterback. But whether it’s Derek Anderson, Quinn or someone else, Holmgren said in a sit-down, one-on-one interview, it’s up to the organization to turn him into a winning quarterback.

 

And, yes, Holmgren still includes Anderson in the mix.

 

“My philosophy — but I’m not coaching any more — is I could grab anybody and make him better at quarterback,” Holmgren said, seeming relaxed in a swivel chair during a lengthy chat. “That was me. That was my cockiness.”

 

Holmgren coached Hall of Famers Joe Montana and Steve Young along with future Hall of Famer Brett Favre before doing perhaps his greatest work, nurturing former Round 6 pick Matt Hasselbeck into a Super Bowl QB in Seattle.

 

“But I’m not doing that (coaching) anymore,” said Holmgren, who has been with the Browns for less than two months. “I have to be able to make a value judgment on the guys we have here.

 

“It’s easy to judge things you see on film. I don’t know the two of them well enough yet ... kind of what makes them tick, which is important to me.”

 

Holmgren said Head Coach Eric Mangini has asked him to get heavily involved with quarterbacks. Mangini didn’t have to ask twice.

 

“Eric and I have a great relationship, but I’m not going to be on the field coaching the guy,” Holmgren said. “As far as observations and as far as advice, suggestions, whatever, this group (coaches and personnel men) has been very, very open. ”

 

In 2007, then-General Manager Phil Savage traded with Dallas for a first-round draft pick, which he spent on Quinn.

 

Holmgren said it normally takes two solid years of playing before a quarterback can be defined.

 

“Maybe you think, OK, this guy’s got a chance to be your guy,” Holmgren said. “If he’s a first-rounder, because of what you’re paying him, you’re pretty much guaranteeing he’s going to get a real shot.

 

“Now, by the end of the two years, you know ... I know ... I’ve always known ... if he’s your guy.”

 

Why two years?

 

“He’s had a fair chance to show me he gets it, he studies, he’s learned the offense, his decision making is good, and we can win with him,” Holmgren said. “Now, that’s two years. That’s 32 games.

 

“I think Brady’s played about nine games in three years (actually 12). So if I’m sticking to my beliefs, which I really do believe in, that’s the formula.

 

“You bang around and bang around and bang around, and pretty soon, phew, the lights go on. And then you’ve got something good. But during the growing pains, you kind of ask everyone to understand what we’re doing. You commit ... if you believe that quarterback has a chance.”

 

Holmgren’s point is that Quinn has been jacked around a bit, playing for different head coaches and different coordinators — and never for close to a full season.

 

Now Holmgren must make the call: Does Quinn need two full years or is it even worth investing one full year in him?

 

“I can’t tell you that yet,” Holmgren said. “That’s right now. Honestly, if you were to ask me in another month, I could be more forthright. I’m not trying to dodge the question. It wouldn’t be fair now to answer. I need to study it more, and I’ve been doing other things.”

 

[mopaji]

Riiiiiiight, the QB guru hasn't had time to look at his aweful QB situation and assess what needs to be done. My theory is, he doesn't want Brady to start but knows that in this town, Brady on the bench is a HUUUGE distraction for the team and so we will try and deal him before the draft. DA is worth keeping as a backup because he doesn't have a very tradable contract and few teams look at him as a starter, maybe Carolina, but nobody cares if he doesn't start here. But you're gonna want to get another guy in here to run the offense. Kolb, McNabb, T. Jackson, or Jason Campbell.

 

PS. The same arguments as to why Quinn sucks can be made for why DA sucks. This is going to be a very interseting offseason and it will be cool to see what his new regime does with these two guys.

[SJ_Browns]

i don't think mh is lying about bq. he's only been here like 2 months. there have been alot of things going on that have kept him pretty occupied, like all of the hirings and firings in berea. i'm sure he'll have the chance to really sit down and pick bq's brain to see where he's at as a qb. he can study film on him, but the bigger test will be to see what he can do in mini and training camp imo. mh has always been known as a straight shooter, so i'm going to trust him on the bq situation.

[Rooster Dick]

I don't know why people waste their time bringing up Jason Campbell

[SJ_Browns]

Holmgren said Head Coach Eric Mangini has asked him to get heavily involved with quarterbacks. Mangini didn’t have to ask twice.

 

this is a good thing.

[hoorta]

Riiiiiiight, the QB guru hasn't had time to look at his aweful QB situation and assess what needs to be done. My theory is, he doesn't want Brady to start but knows that in this town, Brady on the bench is a HUUUGE distraction for the team and so we will try and deal him before the draft. DA is worth keeping as a backup because he doesn't have a very tradable contract and few teams look at him as a starter, maybe Carolina, but nobody cares if he doesn't start here. But you're gonna want to get another guy in here to run the offense. Kolb, McNabb, T. Jackson, or Jason Campbell.

 

PS. The same arguments as to why Quinn sucks can be made for why DA sucks. This is going to be a very interesting offseason and it will be cool to see what his new regime does with these two guys.

 

Sorry, wrong. Holmgren essentially said Quinn really hasn't gotten a fair shot, (which can't be said about DA) and he doesn't make 1\2 as many dumb-ass mistakes as Anderson does.

 

Tavaris Jackson? Campbell? ROTFL, those are downgrades, not upgrades.

 

[SJ_Browns]

Sorry, wrong. Holmgren essentially said Quinn really hasn't gotten a fair shot, (which can't be said about DA) and he doesn't make 1\2 as many dumb-ass mistakes as Anderson does.

 

Tavaris Jackson? Campbell? ROTFL, those are downgrades, not upgrades.

 

there are question marks next to those two just like there's one next to bq. i don't see the point in bringing a qb in and no one knows whether he will pan out or not. we already have enough of that in berea right now.

[steel88]

From that I got, that he wants to give Quinn a shot. He probably saw how hard he works, and realized he's been jerked around a lot since being drafted.

[Gips]

Theres no doubt MH is sincere and the fact mangini has asked for his involvement in QBs and likely offensive help in general is comforting ,i have this warm peachy feeling about this regime and the browns that i havent felt in years while i dont expect miracles i wont be at all surprised if one occurs, as for QBs i hope BQ gets an honest shot in cleveland but if MH and EM decide he isnt it im onboard as well as long as DA doesnt get the reigns again...

[mopaji]

Sorry, wrong. Holmgren essentially said Quinn really hasn't gotten a fair shot, (which can't be said about DA) and he doesn't make 1\2 as many dumb-ass mistakes as Anderson does.

 

Tavaris Jackson? Campbell? ROTFL, those are downgrades, not upgrades.

 

 

I'm not gonna get into the DA/BQ thing again but to say that DA has gotten a fair shot is a little naive. Despite how the depth chart reads, DA has NEVER had the support or the comfort that comes with being a starting QB. Every snap has been an audition for him. He also has had I believe, 4 different OCs and 3 head coaches which is actually more than BQ. Not to mention a revolving door of pass catchers. Look, this isn't an anti-Quinnn pro-DA post. I'm only trying to point out that same arguments can be made for and against each one of these guys. That is why it will be interesting to see how Mangini/Heckert/Holmgren handle this.

 

And how are Jason Campbell or T. Jackson a downgrade from the two statistacally worst QBs in history? Jamarcus Russel or Delhomme maybe but not Campbell or Jackson.

[Drunkandstoopid]

Only 1 QB on the Browns roster has received 3 solid weeks and a couple of games of starters reps in preseason.... and he ended up sitting behind a guy with a concussion for a half season.

 

I'm thinking it's pretty easy to say DA didn't get 2 seasons of starts either. It'll be interesting to see what Holmgren does. I get the feeling if they can't find an existing "starter" they can bring right in to play for 3 or more years, DA's still on the roster. I doubt they'll bring in an unproven guy to be the starter.

[BrownsJunkee]

The options for us to get a QB to build around without giving up too much or taking a huge chance is slim. I think BQ will get the call and a chance to prove himself and we'll go from there.

[hoorta]

The options for us to get a QB to build around without giving up too much or taking a huge chance is slim. I think BQ will get the call and a chance to prove himself and we'll go from there.

 

Regardless if we keep Quinn or not, I see the Browns using one of the third round picks on a qb, assuming guys like Pike of LeFevour are still on the board.

[hoorta]

I'm not gonna get into the DA/BQ thing again but to say that DA has gotten a fair shot is a little naive. Despite how the depth chart reads, DA has NEVER had the support or the comfort that comes with being a starting QB. Every snap has been an audition for him. He also has had I believe, 4 different OCs and 3 head coaches which is actually more than BQ. Not to mention a revolving door of pass catchers. Look, this isn't an anti-Quinnn pro-DA post. I'm only trying to point out that same arguments can be made for and against each one of these guys. That is why it will be interesting to see how Mangini/Heckert/Holmgren handle this.

 

And how are Jason Campbell or T. Jackson a downgrade from the two statistacally worst QBs in history? Jamarcus Russel or Delhomme maybe but not Campbell or Jackson.

 

Yeah- no sense starting another BQ DA war- let's just agree to disagree on the merits of either one. The answer will be forthcoming in the next few months.

 

Maybe I misstated on the other two qbs you mentioned. They've shown nothing to indicate they're starting qb material, so why give up something to take a flier on these guys? The Vikings didn't think Jackson was "the guy" so why would Holmgren think otherwise?

 

[kshutchins]

The answer: He isn't.

 

Btw, if a mod sees this I can't send PM's, help?

 

There was abuse of the PM system so it was disabled. I'm not sure if/when it will be reactivated.

 

[Westside Steve]

I'm kinda disappointed by the dodge.

"Sure I could take this guy and turn him into an all pro Quarterback, save the organization millions and get to the playoffs a year sooner, but gee whiz, I'm not coaching anymore."

 

No, Mike, not technically but you are in charge of every goddam thing that happens in Ohio colored orange and brown.

 

You sound a little like those security guards whose job decription didn't specifically state "protect little kids from being beaten."

WSS

[SJ_Browns]

I'm kinda disappointed by the dodge.

"Sure I could take this guy and turn him into an all pro Quarterback, save the organization millions and get to the playoffs a year sooner, but gee whiz, I'm not coaching anymore."

 

No, Mike, not technically but you are in charge of every goddam thing that happens in Ohio colored orange and brown.

 

You sound a little like those security guards whose job decription didn't specifically state "protect little kids from being beaten."

WSS

 

imo, you're drawing the wrong conclusion. mh seems like, coming in the door, he wanted to give mangini and his staff the opportunity to sort it out on their own. who knows, it could've even been a test to see if they would humble themselves and ask someone who knows instead of letting pride get in the way.

 

there's nothing wrong with mh not being a dictator. he said he's not going to be the coach, but if someone asks for his help, he'll more than gladly give it. i like mh's approach to things and have no problem with it. maybe he just wanted to give guys a fair shot to do it on their own at first. i don't see him sitting back and doing nothing if things go wrong. then ofcourse, there's this quote:

 

Holmgren said Head Coach Eric Mangini has asked him to get heavily involved with quarterbacks. Mangini didn’t have to ask twice.

 

sounds like mh got an open invitation. you best believe if there's any problems or if mangini/daboll seem to not be able to make the right decisions, he'll jump right in and get it straight.

[sisky fringo]

imo, you're drawing the wrong conclusion. mh seems like, coming in the door, he wanted to give mangini and his staff the opportunity to sort it out on their own. who knows, it could've even been a test to see if they would humble themselves and ask someone who knows instead of letting pride get in the way.

 

there's nothing wrong with mh not being a dictator. he said he's not going to be the coach, but if someone asks for his help, he'll more than gladly give it. i like mh's approach to things and have no problem with it. maybe he just wanted to give guys a fair shot to do it on their own at first. i don't see him sitting back and doing nothing if things go wrong. then ofcourse, there's this quote:

 

 

 

sounds like mh got an open invitation. you best believe if there's any problems or if mangini/daboll seem to not be able to make the right decisions, he'll jump right in and get it straight.

 

?

 

no offense but it sounds a bit like you're thinking out loud here S_J.

 

i get what Steve is saying and i don't think it's about to/not to micro-manage Mangini and his staff at all. the guy specializes in quarterbacks and the most relevant pass-heavy offenses in the NFL for decades, and is admittedly a little bit arrogant about his success with it. says "he can improve anybody"...but he's not coaching.

 

as Holmgren himself stated it's his job to get the coach the guys he needs to succeed, and Mangini's job to coach them.

 

he was asked to focus on that specific aspect of the team by the head coach, but when asked about his evaluation he reverts to coach-speak because it's only been 12 NFL starts with several other appearances, countless hours of practice tape and a 10 year body of work to assess.

 

this kinda reads--don't ask again on the 31st start, i said 32nd!

this move buys some time and shows me he understands the importance of Quinn's role with the team to some of the fans.

 

you best believe if there's any problems or if mangini/daboll seem to not be able to make the right decisions, he'll jump right in and get it straight.

well i hope so since he was specifically asked and if he didn't he would not be doing his job. our success depends heavily on BOTH (all) of them working together closely.

 

btw Mangini's audition is over, he doesn't have to prove anything to MH now. he was asked for help, and with an 800 million dollar franchise hanging in the balance he better not be imposing a sink or swim mentality (!). he's the guy, that's it no tests or additional challenges are happening here...and if i found out there were i'd be the first one petitioning for Lerner to broom his ass out the door, QB guru and deep buddy club member or not!

 

he did however also say "i'm not dodging, i just really don't know yet. i'll know more in a month". whether it's because of a Freudian slip or because he'll genuinely know more, he kinda invited them to revisit the question a month from now.

 

i give him the benefit of the doubt. with such a crucial decision if he's not 100% sure i can appreciate that.

 

~we haven't been sure for 4 years, we can give the QB messiah 3 months i guess.~

[mopaji]

?

 

no offense but it sounds a bit like you're thinking out loud here S_J.

 

i get what Steve is saying and i don't think it's about to/not to micro-manage Mangini and his staff at all. the guy specializes in quarterbacks and the most relevant pass-heavy offenses in the NFL for decades, and is admittedly a little bit arrogant about his success with it. says "he can improve anybody"...but he's not coaching.

 

as Holmgren himself stated it's his job to get the coach the guys he needs to succeed, and Mangini's job to coach them.

 

he was asked to focus on that specific aspect of the team by the head coach, but when asked about his evaluation he reverts to coach-speak because it's only been 12 NFL starts with several other appearances, countless hours of practice tape and a 10 year body of work to assess.

 

this kinda reads--don't ask again on the 31st start, i said 32nd!

this move buys some time and shows me he understands the importance of Quinn's role with the team to some of the fans.

 

 

well i hope so since he was specifically asked and if he didn't he would not be doing his job. our success depends heavily on BOTH (all) of them working together closely.

 

btw Mangini's audition is over, he doesn't have to prove anything to MH now. he was asked for help, and with an 800 million dollar franchise hanging in the balance he better not be imposing a sink or swim mentality (!). he's the guy, that's it no tests or additional challenges are happening here...and if i found out there were i'd be the first one petitioning for Lerner to broom his ass out the door, QB guru and deep buddy club member or not!

 

he did however also say "i'm not dodging, i just really don't know yet. i'll know more in a month". whether it's because of a Freudian slip or because he'll genuinely know more, he kinda invited them to revisit the question a month from now.

 

i give him the benefit of the doubt. with such a crucial decision if he's not 100% sure i can appreciate that.

 

~we haven't been sure for 4 years, we can give the QB messiah 3 months i guess.~

 

 

 

*standing ovation*

[SJ_Browns]

?

 

no offense but it sounds a bit like you're thinking out loud here S_J.

 

i get what Steve is saying and i don't think it's about to/not to micro-manage Mangini and his staff at all. the guy specializes in quarterbacks and the most relevant pass-heavy offenses in the NFL for decades, and is admittedly a little bit arrogant about his success with it. says "he can improve anybody"...but he's not coaching.

 

as Holmgren himself stated it's his job to get the coach the guys he needs to succeed, and Mangini's job to coach them.

 

he was asked to focus on that specific aspect of the team by the head coach, but when asked about his evaluation he reverts to coach-speak because it's only been 12 NFL starts with several other appearances, countless hours of practice tape and a 10 year body of work to assess.

 

this kinda reads--don't ask again on the 31st start, i said 32nd!

this move buys some time and shows me he understands the importance of Quinn's role with the team to some of the fans.

 

 

well i hope so since he was specifically asked and if he didn't he would not be doing his job. our success depends heavily on BOTH (all) of them working together closely.

 

btw Mangini's audition is over, he doesn't have to prove anything to MH now. he was asked for help, and with an 800 million dollar franchise hanging in the balance he better not be imposing a sink or swim mentality (!). he's the guy, that's it no tests or additional challenges are happening here...and if i found out there were i'd be the first one petitioning for Lerner to broom his ass out the door, QB guru and deep buddy club member or not!

 

he did however also say "i'm not dodging, i just really don't know yet. i'll know more in a month". whether it's because of a Freudian slip or because he'll genuinely know more, he kinda invited them to revisit the question a month from now.

 

i give him the benefit of the doubt. with such a crucial decision if he's not 100% sure i can appreciate that.

 

~we haven't been sure for 4 years, we can give the QB messiah 3 months i guess.~

 

edit: who said mangini is still auditioning? i didn't say that. mangini got the job, but keeping it is a whole diffferent ballgame. you said that mangini has nothing to prove, but he does. nothing is written in stone and nothing is guaranteed with him or anyone else. he has to prove to mh that he can be the coach of the future. and i don't hate mangini either, i want him to succeed. i would rather that he does well asap because i'm sick of starting over. i'm just saying that getting your foot in the door doesn't guarantee you a long term stay .

[sisky fringo]

he has to prove to mh that he can be the coach of the future.

didn't that already happen? where ya been, SJ_! just kidding bud.

 

i'm just saying that getting your foot in the door doesn't guarantee you a long term stay.

i certainly can't disagree there.

 

curious though, why do you keep telling us you don't hate Mangini?

[SJ_Browns]

Mangini has already proven himself--he retained the position--but obviously he does need to show continued improvement. by audition i mean lack of job security, you say short-leash...tomato, tomato.

 

it goes without saying the league is very volatile>>>if you aren't winning/producing at any time really drastic things can happen. that said, EM has already shown MH enough that he shouldn't be looking over his shoulder, and your view seems to indicate his job security is still in jeopardy.

 

most people don't perform well when someone's breathing down your neck, watching their every move, essentially just waiting for them to fail. to sit back and merely watch after being specifically asked for help in his area of specialization...i can't even begin to address what you propose.

 

to say it wouldn't be fair to EM, Lerner, the team, the city, the fans, the legacy etc etc could be nominated for Understatement of the Year, and i am no longer cynical enough to believe MH is that type anyway. it's seems undeniably that wouldn't create an environment for success but if you think that's realistic, have at it.

 

i actually edited my post because i think i misunderstood your statement and maybe you misunderstood my op, but you quoted me before i was done editing, so please disregard my post that you quoted. i agree that mangini isn't going to be looking over his back, i wasn't implying or saying he would be. that would be counter productive at this point. he should be given a fair chance, he deserves that.

[SJ_Browns]

didn't that already happen? where ya been, SJ_! just kidding bud.

 

i certainly can't disagree there.

 

curious though, why do you keep telling us you don't hate Mangini?

 

because the first thing somebody usually says whenever anybody makes a critical comment about mangini is that you're a hater and you believe what the media says about him.

 

[sisky fringo]

i think we agree for the most part, SJ_. EM is safe...for now. if he doesn't show continued progress he'll have serious problems.

 

i just disagree that MH would be interested in watching EM and Daboll cultivate Quinn on their own, if that's what you were saying. there's just too much at stake to be that irresponsible and reckless.

 

i hope that would never happen, i want ego-less management.

[SJ_Browns]

i think we agree for the most part, SJ_. EM is safe...for now. if he doesn't show continued progress he'll have serious problems.

 

i just disagree that MH would be interested in watching EM and Daboll cultivate Quinn on their own, if that's what you were saying. there's just too much at stake to be that irresponsible and reckless.

 

i hope that would never happen, i want ego-less management.

 

yes, we agree for the most part. i don't think mh would just sit back and do nothing in regards to the offense and the qb. i was just basically saying that he would allow em and daboll to present a blueprint of the o and he would look it over and go from there. he's the prez of football operations, so i think he was going to be involved from the start, but not like a dictator (butch davis).

[ballpeen]

I think you are correct about Haskell.

 

If Holmgern looks, or should I say, gets too involved in coaching aspects, the Rooney rule could become a problem.

 

 

Haskell can get in with the coaching staff and have a little more say about how the nuts and bolts should be applied without running the risk of someone saying they didn't have a fair shot at some interview.

 

 

As you said.....Holmgren made the point several times....decisions made will be Cleveland Browns decisions. Decisions that have been hacked over with all the involved members of the staff. Anything that is decided will be more or less a consensus decision.

 

Everybody is going to have a say and all the options will be discussed. When you do that as a team, it isn't often you simply hit a wall with people disagreeing. Common ground can usually be found.