SENECA WALLACE vs. TROYMONT SMITH

[Riffer X]

Ok, let's get the me being bias toward OSU out of the way from the get go. I know I am, you know I am, Buckeyes fans are assholes, the Big 11 sucks and the SEC are kings. However, I am sorta perplexed that Smith isn't getting a little more love here.

 

The Walrus having fetish issues for one of his own bothers me to say the least, mostly because it's at QB. I thought this guy was supposed to groom someone for us so these systems merge into one under the right guy at QB? That guy could be a short term veteran fix while we groom a prospect or two and keep Quinn around, a guy to compete with Quinn or a franchise type in the draft with Quinn starting for another year to see if he breaks out.

 

A guy like Wallace does nothing for me, he's simply a stopgap backup that Homes is comfy with. I think Smith could legitimately push for the starting job. Let's not forget that before the ballyhooed rookie Flacco Seagulls (Flugelism) got his job Smith was the starter and looking good. Then he got really sick, Flaxico took over and that was it. Personally, I'm not sold on Flacoo yet but that's neither here nor there. I think Smith can play. He has the arm, the feet, the pocket presence and pretty much everything except for prototype height. Lord knows guys like Dan McGuire/Dexter Anderson have shown the light that having a big arm, big feet and height like LeBron mean great success. I've heard people knock Smith's accuracy, but seriously, is there really enough to go on there in his limited attempts? I think not.

 

Smith was the best QB in Buckeye history and was deadly accurate with plenty of arm. He also has a great propensity to keep plays alive and as our lovely rapist brother in Pitt shows, that is huge in this league and our division. He's sitting there for a fifth round pick of which we have four of. The guy is Cleveland born and bred, was a real Browns fan and not some bandwagonning pussy growing up. That doesn't mean beans and I know people are tired of the local schtick, but it also shouldn't preclude a guy just because he's local.

 

I also realize Homes doesn't want another QB controversy and a Smith/Queen competition could stunt team growth. I get all that, but who gives a shit? The kid can play, we need QB's so get him in here. What is there to lose? This guy is already way more developed than any Pike, The Fever, Robinson, Kafka or mid level draftee we could bring in. BTW, can someone get DA out of here already? For God sakes and take Ratliff with him. If we need QB's (and we most certainly do) clean those two out, bring Smith in here and draft one or two guys. WTF is Seneca Wallace going to bring to the table? A guy that has never shown starting capability (remember Smith did), is smallish and is nothing more than a Walrus guy is about it.

 

Not only that, but you're stealing within the division, and that is always a good thing. He develops under them and puts results up for us, a total win win. Bring him in here. Christ, is Queen even going to be healthy? Boy, I can sure get worked up about the prospects of having Seneca Wallace starting the majority of our games this season if Quinn bombs or is hurt.

 

What Mangie did last year bringing in Jets guys was handpick the ones he knew would be good locker room presence guys that bought into his system already. I think it paid off, albeit some seemed to hate it including Grossi. There are some players there though, and Bowens was a stud last season. Stuckey shows potential, Barton is solid if healthy and Coleman is solid depth. Elam may or may not be any good but he served a purpose and if Ratliff was any good at all we would have seen him last year. Point being, that was a different situation than where we are at now. Going with Wallace just because Homes knows him seems like a bad move. Show some balls and transfix this position like Chucky would.

 

I do not want Clausen, I think that pick sets the team back from winning sooner. We are not going to get Bradford, so why not bring in a guy who could have starting potential, is young, from Cleveland and a rival's project for almost nothing?

 

Explain that to me, please.

[ballpeen]

Didn't Holmgren draft Wallace??

 

 

If so, there is your answer.

 

 

 

If you look at Wallace and his career progression, he isn't that bad and really does look like he is ready to take a jump in production.

 

I don't buy in to the height deal as much as some. The guy has always been that height and has learned to find his passing lanes, so I don't see it as a major obstacle.

[ballpeen]

[mopaji]

Wallace isnt so bad. Yeah he's a Walrus guy but that's a good thing. Can you name one QB he ever picked that wasnt good? I dont think he would bring in a guy unless he will help us. And I dont think Heckert and more importantly, Mangini would allow him to bring in a guy who would hurt the team he's trying to coach.

[Athensbuck26]

 

 

did you just try to use a college play as an argument for him

LOL

[miktoxic]

Can you name one QB he ever picked that wasnt good?

 

yeah. seneca wallace.

 

[mopaji]

yeah. seneca wallace.

I set myself up for the that one, I was waiting for that. Seriously though, Seneca is the only QB he has picked that has had to sit and wait. You have to look at MH track record. If he wants Wallace, I'm sure its for good reason.

[yosemitejam]

Here we are debating the merits of Seneca Wallace and Troy Smith. Has the selection of available FA QB's ever been more pitiful that what we are seeing this year??

 

Here is my suggestion regarding the Brown's QB dilemma.....Bring Queen back for what may be his last chance to prove his legitimacy as an NFL QB.. Send that squirel

 

in charge of Brown's security down to Monkey Island in Georgia and have him rent the biggest, red-assed baboon on site. Fly (first class) this inbred stooler fans offspring orphan

 

back to Berea and turn him loose with some darts and a spinning board with pictures of draftable QB prospects. The first dart to land firmly on a board prospect is the

 

Brown's new young QB to develop. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

[miktoxic]

Here we are debating the merits of Seneca Wallace and Troy Smith. Has the selection of available FA QB's ever been more pitiful that what we are seeing this year??

 

Here is my suggestion regarding the Brown's QB dilemma.....Bring Queen back for what may be his last chance to prove his legitimacy as an NFL QB.. Send that squirel

 

in charge of Brown's security down to Monkey Island in Georgia and have him rent the biggest, red-assed baboon on site. Fly (first class) this inbred stooler fans offspring orphan

 

back to Berea and turn him loose with some darts and a spinning board with pictures of draftable QB prospects. The first dart to land firmly on a board prospect is the

 

Brown's new young QB to develop. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

 

LMAO!! F'IN HILARIOUS!!!

 

[ballpeen]

did you just try to use a college play as an argument for him

LOL

 

Only in the context he is a pretty athletic guy. I didn't think I would need to explain that

 

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

I think, with the amount of 5th round picks we have, bringing in Troy Smith should be a no-brainer.

 

Look at it this way:

A Heisman trophy winner with NFL experience and first round talent that can be had in the 5th round. From a pure drafting point of view, it's a no brainer. Especially if you still have 3 other 5th round picks to use.

 

 

I don't see what the big deal is. I doubt, if we did bring him in, that we would have a quarterback controversy on our hands. The best QB would start- if that's Quinn, then it's Quinn. If that's Troy, then it's Troy. It's not as hard as people are making it out to be.

 

 

What would we have to give up to get Seneca?

[JB32GOAT]

Only in the context he is a pretty athletic guy. I didn't think I would need to explain that

 

 

you dont need to be athletic to be a good QB

 

[Brownshirt]

Only in the context he is a pretty athletic guy. I didn't think I would need to explain that

 

 

Peen, this kid is mentally challenged or he's a pittspuke troll trying to piss everyone off which he's suceeding doing.

 

Everything he posts is BS & ignorant to boot. Didn't you know that we have 13 draft picks & that Jerome H tendered @ 2 has 9 teams

 

that want him for a #5?

[Brownshirt]

you dont need to be athletic to be a good QB

 

Wow, just f'ng WOW! And you don't have to be intelligent to post on forums either.

[miktoxic]

no you really don't have to be athletic to be a qb, but it helps. i say bring in anybody you think can help at this point. the only problem i see, and i know it really hasn't affected him in his career and others in theirs yet, is the height thing. like it or not the players in the nfl are getting bigger and taller each year. how are you going to find your receivers downfield if you can't see above your O line? what do you scramble to the left and right each play? that's why these guys throw up interceptions in the latter parts of the game because they're so freaking tired of running around all game long.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Wow, just f'ng WOW! And you don't have to be intelligent to post on forums either.

 

 

He has a point, though. Look at Bernie Kosar. Probably the most unathletic QB to ever play the game.

[next2nothing]

I think, with the amount of 5th round picks we have, bringing in Troy Smith should be a no-brainer.

 

Look at it this way:

A Heisman trophy winner with NFL experience and first round talent that can be had in the 5th round. From a pure drafting point of view, it's a no brainer. Especially if you still have 3 other 5th round picks to use.

 

 

I don't see what the big deal is. I doubt, if we did bring him in, that we would have a quarterback controversy on our hands. The best QB would start- if that's Quinn, then it's Quinn. If that's Troy, then it's Troy. It's not as hard as people are making it out to be.

That's what I don't get either. Everyone is saying he sucks or is not worth the 5th round pick.

 

Both our current QB's suck and no matter who we bring in, I have a feeling we're drafting a QB at some point in the upcoming draft anyway.

 

Why not give the guy a shot?

[JB32GOAT]

Wow, just f'ng WOW! And you don't have to be intelligent to post on forums either.

 

 

yup just look how athletic peyton manning and tom brady are

or even Chad Henne and Eli Manning or Phillip Rivers or Aaron Rodgers

 

i could go on and on and on

 

athletisim has almost nothing to do with being a good starting NFL QB

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

no you really don't have to be athletic to be a qb, but it helps. i say bring in anybody you think can help at this point. the only problem i see, and i know it really hasn't affected him in his career and others in theirs yet, is the height thing. like it or not the players in the nfl are getting bigger and taller each year. how are you going to find your receivers downfield if you can't see above your O line? what do you scramble to the left and right each play? that's why these guys throw up interceptions in the latter parts of the game because they're so freaking tired of running around all game long.

 

 

He's nowhere near short enough to not be able to see over the offensive linemen. That's just dramaticizing it.

 

People are hating on Troy Smith for four reasons, mainly:

 

1. He's short.

2. He's Joe Flacco's backup.

3. He hasn't shown anything.

4. He never won a National Championship.

 

Well, his height won't change. So shit or get off the pot. He obviously found ways to adapt to his "average" height, and he's not a midget. This is being played out.

 

Aaron Rodgers was Brett Favre's backup in Green Bay. He's not worth shit, either, is he? Tom Brady was Drew Bledsoe's beckup for a while, as well. Just saying.

 

He hasn't shown anything because he hasn't had a chance. That's it. He hasn't shown abilty, nor has he shown inability.

 

Other notable QB's to never win a National Championship: Brett Favre, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady (he was a backup, didn't play), Otto Graham, Dan Marino, Terry Bradshaw, Johnny Unitas, and Fran Tarkenton.

 

(I am, in no way, comparing the skill sets of Troy Smith to those of the NFL greats. I am simply showing that the National Championship reasoning is baloney. Or bologna. However you want to spell it.)

 

 

I'm not saying this guy is amazing, but it's kind of stupid not to give him a chance when he can be had for so little. Plus, if our right side of the offensive line doesn't improve, his ability to scramble will be a needed asset.

 

 

[miktoxic]

He's nowhere near short enough to not be able to see over the offensive linemen. That's just dramaticizing it.

 

People are hating on Troy Smith for four reasons, mainly:

 

1. He's short.

2. He's Joe Flacco's backup.

3. He hasn't shown anything.

4. He never won a National Championship.

 

Well, his height won't change. So shit or get off the pot. He obviously found ways to adapt to his "average" height, and he's not a midget. This is being played out.

 

Aaron Rodgers was Brett Favre's backup in Green Bay. He's not worth shit, either, is he? Tom Brady was Drew Bledsoe's beckup for a while, as well. Just saying.

 

He hasn't shown anything because he hasn't had a chance. That's it. He hasn't shown abilty, nor has he shown inability.

 

Other notable QB's to never win a National Championship: Brett Favre, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady (he was a backup, didn't play), Otto Graham, Dan Marino, Terry Bradshaw, Johnny Unitas, and Fran Tarkenton.

 

(I am, in no way, comparing the skill sets of Troy Smith to those of the NFL greats. I am simply showing that the National Championship reasoning is baloney. Or bologna. However you want to spell it.)

 

 

I'm not saying this guy is amazing, but it's kind of stupid not to give him a chance when he can be had for so little. Plus, if our right side of the offensive line doesn't improve, his ability to scramble will be a needed asset.

 

hey, i'm not hating on anyone. and yes, the height thing does get played ou, but to say i'm over dramatizing it is wrong. brees is the only guy i know of in recent history that's been successful in the nfl with the height 'issue'. i'm no gm but if you asked any of them i'm sure they'd say the prototypical qb of now and into the future is the manning/ryan/rivers/cutler/flacco etc. etc. size. that's all.

 

that being said he's gotta be better than what we got now.

 

[hoorta]

He's nowhere near short enough to not be able to see over the offensive linemen. That's just dramaticizing it.

 

People are hating on Troy Smith for four reasons, mainly:

 

1. He's short.

2. He's Joe Flacco's backup.

3. He hasn't shown anything.

4. He never won a National Championship.

 

 

I'm not saying this guy is amazing, but it's kind of stupid not to give him a chance when he can be had for so little. Plus, if our right side of the offensive line doesn't improve, his ability to scramble will be a needed asset.

 

The only thing that concerns me about Smith is #3. My rationale being if Smith had shown something, he would have been tendered higher, like second round. $1.8 million isn't that huge a contract for a quality backup qb.

 

[Riffer X]

The only thing that concerns me about Smith is #3. My rationale being if Smith had shown something, he would have been tendered higher, like second round. $1.8 million isn't that huge a contract for a quality backup qb.

 

He showed enough there to be the starter until he got sick as hell. Over first round pick Flacco BTW.

[mopaji]

The only thing that concerns me about Smith is #3. My rationale being if Smith had shown something, he would have been tendered higher, like second round. $1.8 million isn't that huge a contract for a quality backup qb.

Sometimes tender guys in such a way that they can ensure someone will take him. He's unhappy, they have a franchise QB, we have 5 fifth rd picks, why not?

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

hey, i'm not hating on anyone. and yes, the height thing does get played ou, but to say i'm over dramatizing it is wrong. brees is the only guy i know of in recent history that's been successful in the nfl with the height 'issue'. i'm no gm but if you asked any of them i'm sure they'd say the prototypical qb of now and into the future is the manning/ryan/rivers/cutler/flacco etc. etc. size. that's all.

 

that being said he's gotta be better than what we got now.

 

The height thing is an issue, don't get me wrong. But there are people (not necessarily you) saying that we shouldn't get Troy Smith, and the only reason they really provide is that he's too short. I agree, players are getting bigger and Troy Smith is not your prototypical QB size. Sometimes good QB's aren't prototypes, though. Flutie and Brees were and are both smaller sized individuals, but were and are both very good quarterbacks. I believe we have the room to take a chance on Smith as well as also draft a "prototypical size" QB (Pike, Tebow).

 

And you're right, he's got to be just as good or better than Anderquinn.

 

The only thing that concerns me about Smith is #3. My rationale being if Smith had shown something, he would have been tendered higher, like second round. $1.8 million isn't that huge a contract for a quality backup qb.

 

 

Well, according to multiple sources, Smith was slated to become the starter before his tonsilitis and the emergence of Joe Flacco. If you ask me, that's just bad timing. And it would be pretty hard for a lot of QB's in the league to start over Joe Flacco now. I believe he's got the talent, he's just been a victim of circumstance. And he won't be expensive to bring in. And he's already stated he wants to be here. It seems like the perfect situation for him and for us, because if he doesn't work out, there's no cap that takes a hit. Tenders work funny in the NFL. Sometimes teams will tender a player lower just to be sure they can get a deal for him. If he was tendered at a second round pick, nobody would have bit on that.

[Zombo]

He showed enough there to be the starter until he got sick as hell. Over first round pick Flacco BTW.

 

Someone got injured, right? Mcnair or Boller or somebody? So then Smith was going to be the placeholder until the green kid from Delaware St. was ready. Smith, got sick, Flacco stepped in and the Ravens won. End of story. 6'6" athlete with lighting arm has led them to playoffs two years in a row and had a season worthy of pro bowl consideration in his second year.

 

I know you set up your first post by admitting the bias, etc ... but c'mon! Do you think there is any other team's message board clamoring for Troy Freaking Smith? It just doesn't matter that he's from Cleveland or Ohio St. I rooted for Frye, I root for Quinn, it's a nice little angle for the Mary Kays of the world to write articles about how they are local products ... but it just doesn't matter. San Francisco didn't care that Montana was a Pittsburgh boy, Green Bay didn't care that Bret Favre was from the bible belt, Indy doesn't give a rat's ass that Peyton is from New Orleans, and Pittsburgh is totally OK that Rapelsburger is from Ohio. Just win. No one cares where you are from.

 

Smith is a short, 5th round QB, with 2 career starts and very little interest in his abilities outside of Baltimore or your neighborhood. Quinn, is taller, a first-rounder, more experienced, and generally considered more upside. What is the value in bringing in this guy? If you go with Quinn you get a veteran starter and a draft pick to back him up. If you don't go with Quinn you find a veteran starter and draft your QB of the future, you don't chase a 5th round midget hoping to bank your future on him.

 

And it's not because I'm a Penn St. fan or a Notre Dame fan ... I hated Courtney Brown, I never clamored for Kerry Collins, I've been as hard on Quinn as anybody ... I want winners in Brown & Orange. Don't care where they are from. I don't see Troy Smith as a future NFL star and I doubt anyone who's anyone in the league sees it either. Let him go ... put the Troymont down. Step away from the Troymont.

 

Zombo

[d-train biatch]

I think we would be stupid to not take a chance at Smith. What a steal to get him for a 5th. We have 3 or 4 in that round anyways. Sign him and draft

Pike or LeFevour and groom them thr correct way

[Riffer X]

Someone got injured, right? Mcnair or Boller or somebody? So then Smith was going to be the placeholder until the green kid from Delaware St. was ready. Smith, got sick, Flacco stepped in and the Ravens won. End of story. 6'6" athlete with lighting arm has led them to playoffs two years in a row and had a season worthy of pro bowl consideration in his second year.

 

I know you set up your first post by admitting the bias, etc ... but c'mon! Do you think there is any other team's message board clamoring for Troy Freaking Smith? It just doesn't matter that he's from Cleveland or Ohio St. I rooted for Frye, I root for Quinn, it's a nice little angle for the Mary Kays of the world to write articles about how they are local products ... but it just doesn't matter. San Francisco didn't care that Montana was a Pittsburgh boy, Green Bay didn't care that Bret Favre was from the bible belt, Indy doesn't give a rat's ass that Peyton is from New Orleans, and Pittsburgh is totally OK that Rapelsburger is from Ohio. Just win. No one cares where you are from.

 

Smith is a short, 5th round QB, with 2 career starts and very little interest in his abilities outside of Baltimore or your neighborhood. Quinn, is taller, a first-rounder, more experienced, and generally considered more upside. What is the value in bringing in this guy? If you go with Quinn you get a veteran starter and a draft pick to back him up. If you don't go with Quinn you find a veteran starter and draft your QB of the future, you don't chase a 5th round midget hoping to bank your future on him.

 

And it's not because I'm a Penn St. fan or a Notre Dame fan ... I hated Courtney Brown, I never clamored for Kerry Collins, I've been as hard on Quinn as anybody ... I want winners in Brown & Orange. Don't care where they are from. I don't see Troy Smith as a future NFL star and I doubt anyone who's anyone in the league sees it either. Let him go ... put the Troymont down. Step away from the Troymont.

 

Zombo

 

Give me some Troymont now goddammit.

 

Kid has game Zombo he was the best QB in Buckeye history and won the Heisman as a dual threat QB. You're not giving him the respect he's due cuz he's a Buckeye. You said for yourself how great Flacco Seagulls is so how in the hell does anybody know about Smith yet being stuck behind the franchise guy? Seriously, Smith could be a breakout guy and you don't know any better than anyone else if he is or not.

[Mr. T]

It would be better if we build up the framework of a good working offense, than to grab another pie in the sky QB in the draft.

[Zombo]

Give me some Troymont now goddammit.

 

Kid has game Zombo he was the best QB in Buckeye history and won the Heisman as a dual threat QB.

 

Change "Buckeye" to "Seminole" and you have Charlie Ward. I'm not really impressed with someone's NFL prospectus because they won a Heisman as a dula threat QB. You know the list of heisman-winning NFL Nobodies is as long as your arm.

 

 

You're not giving him the respect he's due cuz he's a Buckeye.

 

That's absolutely untrue. First of all, I like the Buckeyes. But even if was from a college program I don't like ... say Michigan or USC, I wouldn't hold the fact that he went to school there against him, I'd hold the fact that he is a 6'0 5th rounder who has done nothing to change my perceptions of him against him.

 

Great college QB. Like the Buckeyes. Love Cleveland. ... don't undestand why anybody would be hot about him as an NFL starter.

 

The two most over-pimped footbal players on this board are Troy Smith and James Davis. I hope Davis turns into a steal, but I'm not about to say we are all a-ok at RB because we have this injured 6th round pick on the roster, and I'm not about to say we should go out and spend a draft pick on Troy Smith when he clearly is less of a prospect than a guy we already have playing the position.

 

I don't see how someone would like Smith more than Quinn. or more than a prospect like McCoy, Bradford or Clausen. Or more than a proven NFL guy like Bulger, Delhomme or Mcnabb. I just don't see how he makes us better or more secure at the most important position on the field.

 

Zombo

[The Gipper]

Change "Buckeye" to "Seminole" and you have Charlie Ward. I'm not really impressed with someone's NFL prospectus because they won a Heisman as a dula threat QB. You know the list of heisman-winning NFL Nobodies is as long as your arm.

 

 

 

 

That's absolutely untrue. First of all, I like the Buckeyes. But even if was from a college program I don't like ... say Michigan or USC, I wouldn't hold the fact that he went to school there against him, I'd hold the fact that he is a 6'0 5th rounder who has done nothing to change my perceptions of him against him.

 

Great college QB. Like the Buckeyes. Love Cleveland. ... don't undestand why anybody would be hot about him as an NFL starter.

 

The two most over-pimped footbal players on this board are Troy Smith and James Davis. I hope Davis turns into a steal, but I'm not about to say we are all a-ok at RB because we have this injured 6th round pick on the roster, and I'm not about to say we should go out and spend a draft pick on Troy Smith when he clearly is less of a prospect than a guy we already have playing the position.

 

I don't see how someone would like Smith more than Quinn. or more than a prospect like McCoy, Bradford or Clausen. Or more than a proven NFL guy like Bulger, Delhomme or Mcnabb. I just don't see how he makes us better or more secure at the most important position on the field.

 

Zombo

 

 

My thinking on this is far more simple: The Browns have only 2 QBs on their roster. They probably should go into training camp with at least 4. If Smith could be even third string for the Browns, and it costs us only a 5th rounder, that is fine. I don't know that he would be any worse than someone we could draft to be our 3rd string QB in the 5th round or below.

He is still a baby career wise as an NFL QB. If they got Smith plus got one of those other veteran QBs that are sitting on the scrap heap, that would be fine with me. My thinking is that BQ is our starter, and anything else is just insurance, Smith included.