Are the Ravens the team to beat in the AFC North Now ?

[BrownIndian]

Ravens, Steelers, Browns and Benagals ... teams that are trying to improve well and win the division but so far I think the team that seems most poised are the Ravens.

 

The Bengals have always been a team that can go boom or bust in a span of a week. They did play well last year but the inconsistency raised its ugly head again. Chad Ocho is now busy dancing; L Coles was allowed to leave and this team hasnt strengthened big time so far.

 

Steelers had a terrible season last year. It was attributed to the absence of Troy P. This year he is expected to be back; but the Steeler offense is surely going to miss santonio holmes. Also Big Bens scandals will have him concentrating a lot less. This year promises to be no different. The loss of holmes will haunt the offense just like the loss of Troy last year in the defense.

 

Ravens were always considered a dark horse who are only a WR short of being a contender. This year they got a WR and a big one too. Now with a near perfect team - are they the ones to beat in the AFC North ?

[ATENEARS]

Ravens, Steelers, Browns and Benagals ... teams that are trying to improve well and win the division but so far I think the team that seems most poised are the Ravens.

 

The Bengals have always been a team that can go boom or bust in a span of a week. They did play well last year but the inconsistency raised its ugly head again. Chad Ocho is now busy dancing; L Coles was allowed to leave and this team hasnt strengthened big time so far.

 

Steelers had a terrible season last year. It was attributed to the absence of Troy P. This year he is expected to be back; but the Steeler offense is surely going to miss santonio holmes. Also Big Bens scandals will have him concentrating a lot less. This year promises to be no different. The loss of holmes will haunt the offense just like the loss of Troy last year in the defense.

 

Ravens were always considered a dark horse who are only a WR short of being a contender. This year they got a WR and a big one too. Now with a near perfect team - are they the ones to beat in the AFC North ?

 

May be too early to tell. I still get the feeling that the Ravens injury bug is going to hurt them again this season as they continue to age in key areas. They need to have a solid draft too. They lost depth on the D-line and they need a corner-back. Ed Reed can't shake the neck injuries and he's a key. Todd Heap is in his 10th season already and they have no one with experience to spell him. They have a good team and filling holes in depth sounds easy for a draft, but they also need to start thinking about drafting players at the same positions as some of their aging stars R.Lewis, E. Reed, T. Heap, etc.. Even though they filled their biggest need at WR, Derrick Mason is getting ancient as well.

 

The Ravens will be well on their way down in the coming years as the Browns start to become prime.

 

[The Gipper]

Short answer to your question: No, not necessarily

 

Long answer will have to wait until all the drafts, FA pickups, trades, etc. are done and the teams are in training camp for a while. Then the best way to answer your question would be to do a unit by unit analysis and comparison of the 4 teams. I am not ready to do that now, but if any of the rest of you wish to, here is your guide:

 

Best AFC units:

 

Quarterback: ?

 

Running backs: ?

 

Tight end: ?

 

Wide Receivers: ?

 

Defensive line: ?

 

Linebackers: ?

 

Defensive backfield: ?

 

Kick/punt returner: ?

 

Kicker/punter: ?

 

Coverage: ?

 

Coaching: ?

 

Front office: ?

 

Anyone willing to do a preliminary ranking?

[Bob806]

Short answer to your question: No, not necessarily

 

Long answer will have to wait until all the drafts, FA pickups, trades, etc. are done and the teams are in training camp for a while. Then the best way to answer your question would be to do a unit by unit analysis and comparison of the 4 teams. I am not ready to do that now, but if any of the rest of you wish to, here is your guide:

 

Best AFC units:

 

Quarterback: ?

Colts & Chargers, Patriots not too far off with a more healthy Brady in 2010

Running backs: ?

Ravens, it hurts to say that

Tight end: ?

Chargers

Wide Receivers: ?

don't know

Defensive line: ?

Jets

Linebackers: ?

Steelers

Defensive backfield: ?

 

Kick/punt returner: ?

Browns & Chargers

Kicker/punter: ?

Browns

Coverage: ?

Bills

Coaching: ?

Patriots untill BB hangs 'em up

Front office: ?

Hard to say

Anyone willing to do a preliminary ranking?

 

I know I'm a big homer, but if (it's a BIG IF) the Browns can find quality starters in this draft, the AFC North could be there for the taking. I would agree that the Ravens have the edge for now, but it's not like they will go 12-4 or better. I think our AFC North winner will be more like 10-6...why not the Browns?

[The Gipper]

I know I'm a big homer, but if (it's a BIG IF) the Browns can find quality starters in this draft, the AFC North could be there for the taking. I would agree that the Ravens have the edge for now, but it's not like they will go 12-4 or better. I think our AFC North winner will be more like 10-6...why not the Browns?

 

Actually, I meant for you to just compare the units in the AFC North, not to go outside with the rest of the AFC. (though, in reality, for the wild card spots we would be competing with all the rest of the AFC).

[The Gipper]

I think at this point it may even be difficult to even identify the players that would start for the AFC North teams:

 

QBs: Here at least we have who we think is the starters for each team: Rate them: Roethlisberger, Carson, Flacco, Delhome

 

TEs: We might know some of them: Heap for B-more, Miller for Pitt. Who starts for the Browns and Bengals? Heap is probably at the top of the Heap.

 

RBs: It seems that all teams have this committe system at RB. Rice/McGahee for Balt. right now probably have to be given the nod as the best duo, Mendenhall for Pitt. Who starts for the Browns? Harrison is the incumbent.

 

WRs: At this point it would probably be fair to say the Browns rank at the bottom of the division in this category, though with Holmes gone I think the Steelers WR corps no longer can claim top spot.

 

OL: However, the Browns may now rank at the top here, ya think? Who in the AFC North has a better trio than Thomas, Mack and Steinbach? Though that right side may still be a concern.

 

On defense I don't think any of the Browns units are currently going to be anywhere near the top ranking. It is more likely their LBs, DL, and DBs are #4 across the board. Maybe not now with all the new acquisitions. They gotta prove themselves.

 

Our special teams however may rank #1 across the board. Solid kicking, punting, and returning obviously. Pretty good coverage as well.

 

Right now Mangini would probably rank at the bottom of a neutral coaching rating of the 4 HCs.

 

Front office, the Steelers have obviously been traditionally excellent. And Baltimore has Ozzie. Though, now with Holmgren and Heckert the Browns should be no lower than third place to begin as the book is certainly still out on them.

[jasont44094]

For TE Watson starts for us, Heap is out of his prime and hasn't produced much in almost 3 years. Cincinnati and Baltimore are planning to draft a TE so I think this is wide open for anybody.

[TheClevelandSound]

Best AFC NORTH units:

 

Quarterback: Bengals

 

Running backs: Ravens

 

Tight end: Browns

 

Wide Receivers: Ravens

 

Defensive line: Bengals

 

Linebackers: Browns

 

Defensive backfield: Steelers

 

Kick/punt returner: Browns

 

Kicker/punter: Steelers

 

Coverage: Browns

 

Coaching: Browns/Bengals

 

Front office: Browns

 

Yeah this isn't biased either.

 

The AFC North is the 2nd toughest division in football behind the NFC East

[The Gipper]

Best AFC NORTH units:

 

Questions on your choices:

 

Quarterback: Bengals

 

Running backs: Ravens

 

Tight end: Browns You really think Ben Watson is now the superior TE in this division over Heap and Miller? I guess I really don't know much about him if that is the case.

 

Wide Receivers: Ravens

 

Defensive line: Bengals

 

Linebackers: Browns I think I would have to disagree vehemently with this choice..considering the Steelers and Ravens have had superior LB work over the last couple of years.

 

Defensive backfield: Steelers

 

Kick/punt returner: Browns

 

Kicker/punter: Steelers How do you get that the Steelers tandem is better than the Browns tandem? Or anyone else's?

 

Coverage: Browns

 

Coaching: Browns/Bengals

 

Front office: Browns

 

Yeah this isn't biased either.

 

The AFC North is the 2nd toughest division in football behind the NFC East

 

[shoot]

You forgot Offensive Line.

 

And how can you say that Browns' TEs/LBs are the best in the division? Let's be serious here, Ravens and Steelers have us beat there.

[Vagitron]

Cleveland are you being serious with the above? Really?

 

1. What has Carson Palmer done lately? it's cool I get it though. You certainly don't want to put Steelers in any of the prominent positions because you'd appear weak to your brethren. However we all know the facts and the stats for that matter and more importantly the win column and that shiny silver trophy.

 

2. I'll give the nod to Ray rice and Willis but Mendenhall is going to fire on to the scene this year like a cannon ball and I'd wager we'll draft a RB first day or early second. Gerhart or Blount maybe.

 

3. Steelers- NOT CLOSE and you're being irrational to say otherwise. Miller is the most complete TE in the NFL. He blocks well and catches everything. I don't believe there is a more balanced TE in the entire NFL.

 

4. Up in the air but it's still certainly between the Steelers and the Ratbirds. Losing Holmes hurts this column but the Steelers are better off. Wallace is ready to step up and ARE is back in the fold. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Sweed emerge when camp completes.

 

5. Defensive line. The Bengals? lol You know who has the best d-line in the AFC North and it's not the Bengals. Kiesel/Hampton/Smith > *

 

6. The most glaring and ridiculous. Thank God Gip isn't a troll. Once again not close. Steelers

 

7. Agreed.

 

8. Kick/Punt. Definitely Cribbs

 

9. Reed = most consistent kicker in the NFL. Sepulvada is solid

 

10. Taylor and Gay = questionable. Bengals 100% have this one locked up currently unless people pass on Haden because of his combine and he lands in the Steelers lap. If that occurs it's the Steelers.

 

11. lol what? you also know the answer to this one.

 

12. We'll see how Holmgren does but I don't believe anyone being honest with themselves would answer with anything but Rooney/Colbert

 

It should also be noted this is a completely honest assessment and anyone being honest with themselves will agree. I have nothing to prove here.

 

EDIT: And the Browns o-line is probably the best with Thomas/Mack and Steinbech.

[The Gipper]

Cleveland are you being serious with the above? Really?

 

1. What has Carson Palmer done lately? it's cool I get it though. You certainly don't want to put Steelers in any of the prominent positions because you'd appear weak to your brethren. However we all know the facts and the stats for that matter and more importantly the win column and that shiny silver trophy.

 

The trophy is a team trophy, not an individual one. I have always thought that Palmer was the best pure QB in the division (yes, over BR). They have different skills, and the Steelers have had the better overall team, but I would probably vote for Palmer.

 

2. I'll give the nod to Ray rice and Willis but Mendenhall is going to fire on to the scene this year like a cannon ball and I'd wager we'll draft a RB first day or early second. Gerhart or Blount maybe.

 

Why did they give away...or release or whatever they did to Willie Parker?

 

3. Steelers- NOT CLOSE and you're being irrational to say otherwise. Miller is the most complete TE in the NFL. He blocks well and catches everything. I don't believe there is a more balanced TE in the entire NFL.

 

Best in the NFL? There is Gates and Gonzales. In my mind, Heap and Miller have always been pretty equal....but I didn't follow them that close.

 

4. Up in the air but it's still certainly between the Steelers and the Ratbirds. Losing Holmes hurts this column but the Steelers are better off. Wallace is ready to step up and ARE is back in the fold. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Sweed emerge when camp completes.

 

5. Defensive line. The Bengals? lol You know who has the best d-line in the AFC North and it's not the Bengals. Kiesel/Hampton/Smith > *

 

6. The most glaring and ridiculous. Thank God Gip isn't a troll. Once again not close. Steelers

 

7. Agreed.

 

8. Kick/Punt. Definitely Cribbs

 

9. Reed = most consistent kicker in the NFL. Sepulvada is solid

 

10. Taylor and Gay = questionable. Bengals 100% have this one locked up currently unless people pass on Haden because of his combine and he lands in the Steelers lap. If that occurs it's the Steelers.

 

11. lol what? you also know the answer to this one.

 

12. We'll see how Holmgren does but I don't believe anyone being honest with themselves would answer with anything but Rooney/Colbert

 

It should also be noted this is a completely honest assessment and anyone being honest with themselves will agree. I have nothing to prove here.

 

EDIT: And the Browns o-line is probably the best with Thomas/Mack and Steinbech.

 

[Vagitron]

I said most balanced TE in the NFL. Gates doesn't block well and Gonzo blocks admirably but not to the level of Miller. Miller was finally used this past season in the capacity he deserved. You saw the numbers. He's also a class act and no drama. He's certainly better than Heap seeing as Heap is on the downside of his career thanks to a host of injuries. Heap used to be regarded as elite, he is no longer. I'd also still take Miller over both Gonzo and Gates because of the level of balance and my own personal bias. Either way Miller is a top 5 tight end and I don't believe many will disagree, that is when looking at the total package.

 

As far as Willie is concerned his injuries and the emergence of Mendenhall kept him out of the black and gold. He actually didn't want to re-sign because I believe the Steelers tried. He knew his time was up and wants a chance to start. I'm still trying to figure out why he went to Washington because I do believe he still has gas in the tank and they have a surplus of backs as it stands. Unless they plan to unload Portis or LJ...I guess we'll see.

 

EDIT: And Palmer isn't a winner. Big Ben on the other hand is and that's the difference. Big Ben is certainly a better athlete. If we're talking actual mechanics, Palmer is more text book. Save the recent slew of ridiculous events I don't believe many outside of Ohio would take Palmer over Big Ben. If anything simply because of Ben's ability to extend plays and win games in the clutch. I feel that much is undeniable.

[The Gipper]

I said most balanced TE in the NFL. Gates doesn't block well and Gonzo blocks admirably but not to the level of Miller. Miller was finally used this past season in the capacity he deserved. You saw the numbers.

 

Actually, no, I didn't see the numbers. And I don't know if anyone would claim that Miller is a better pass catching TE than Gates or Gonzales. Blocker? Perhaps. Probably. I guess it depends on what you want from your TE.

 

He's also a class act and no drama. He's certainly better than Heap seeing as Heap is on the downside of his career thanks to a host of injuries. Heap used to be regarded as elite, he is no longer.

Honestly, I would have to defer to a Ravens fan to carry out that argument with you. Like I said, the two seem to be peas in the pod to me. Both very good, but very comparable. I don't know the difference in age between the two.

 

I'd also still take Miller over both Gonzo and Gates because of the level of balance and my own personal bias

Now, don't you think this speaks volumes? Balance? Maybe. Again, it goes back to what you want in a TE.

 

 

. Either way Miller is a top 5 tight end and I don't believe many will disagree, that is when looking at the total package.

 

I don't know if there is some kind of neutral ranking system that would say who the best TEs are. If you have one that would back up your claim I would like to see it. I ain't saying you're wrong. I am only saying that I would like to hear from a more unbiased source.

 

As far as Willie is concerned his injuries and the emergence of Mendenhall kept him out of the black and gold. He actually didn't want to re-sign because I believe the Steelers tried. He knew his time was up and wants a chance to start. I'm still trying to figure out why he went to Washington because I do believe he still has gas in the tank and they have a surplus of backs as it stands. Unless they plan to unload Portis or LJ...I guess we'll see.

 

EDIT: And Palmer isn't a winner. Big Ben on the other hand is and that's the difference. Big Ben is certainly a better athlete. If we're talking actual mechanics, Palmer is more text book. Save the recent slew of ridiculous events I don't believe many outside of Ohio would take Palmer over Big Ben. If anything simply because of Ben's ability to extend plays and win games in the clutch. I feel that much is undeniable.

 

I will say that I agree with several of your statements: Palmer more text book. BR better at extending plays.

I will only note that it is Palmer's, not BR's team that is defending AFC Champions. Again, on whether or not anyone outside of Ohio would rate BR or Palmer better I will defer the argument to a Bengal fan...or ask for a neutral judgment on that question.

 

Let me also note that on your prior post, it seemed that except for accepting Cribbs as the best Kick and punt returner, you seemed to think that the Steelers possessed the best unit in the division in every single other category. Fair to say. If that were the case....then how did they get beat out by both the Bengals and Ravens for a playoff spot. Food for thought...for you.