The Gipper Posted April 28, 2010 Report Share Posted April 28, 2010 Some peckerwood troll claimed that Ohio had the Five most miserable cities in the country per Forbes magazine, and suggested we google this if we didn't believe him. Well, I took that challenge and googled Forbes "most miserable cities" list, and here were the Top Ten on that list: 1. Detroit 2. Stockton, Calif. 3. Flint, Mich. 4. New York 5. Philadelphia 6. Chicago 7. Los Angeles 8. Modesto Cal. 9. Charlotte 10. Providence So much for that. Not a Cleveland, Cinci, Columbus in the bunch. Here is the link if you like: http://www.forbes.com/2008/01/29/detroit-s...le_slide_2.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseballboomhauer Posted April 28, 2010 Report Share Posted April 28, 2010 ....of 2008. here's this year's list http://www.forbes.com/2010/02/11/americas-...es_slide_2.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedyd900rr Posted April 28, 2010 Report Share Posted April 28, 2010 The first thing it says are our winters are to brutal like we have a choice what nature does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedyd900rr Posted April 28, 2010 Report Share Posted April 28, 2010 It even has Canton listed at #9 because only 18.5 percent of the population has a college degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted April 28, 2010 Report Share Posted April 28, 2010 ill say one thing...not too many good jobs here in the burgh....having a bachelors ovwrqualifies me for 90% of the jobs I've found. Real estate is dirt cheap though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted April 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2010 ....of 2008. here's this year's list http://www.forbes.com/2010/02/11/americas-...es_slide_2.html Well, in reality, Cleveland/Akron/Canton/Youngstown is essentially one "city". I mean, they are all within the same 45-50 mile radius. The same issues that afflict one will afflict them all: unemployment, the weather, no sports titles, it is all the same for all of them. So? If the Cavs win the NBA title, will they all drop out next year? And I will tell you right now, a winter in Cleveland is better than a summer in Miami or Phoenix. And another thing: how can all those cities that were so bad one year earlier not still be on the list? Kind of a bunch of bogus criteria. And why does people "moving out" make it more miserable? One of there criteria for misery is "overcrowding", like in NY or LA. So why would a town that is becoming more "undercrowded" be a negative? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEVELandMILIDH Posted May 1, 2010 Report Share Posted May 1, 2010 Cleveland's not even in the top 40 in terms of crime rate by city http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States...s_by_crime_rate Were not in the top 100 in terms of coldest cities with atleast 50,000 in population http://www.city-data.com/top2/c456.html And as far as sports, atleast we have a team in the three major sports, Indians, Cavs, Browns. Weather or not a Team has won a championship in the last decade isnt a barometer as to weather the cites miserable to live in. Columbus has no professional teams and a higher crime rate. There reasoning for selecting Cleveland #1 has no merit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiperBowl Posted May 2, 2010 Report Share Posted May 2, 2010 I thought that Wheeling, WV wouldv'e been on top of the list. Its bad enough that they live in the northern pan handle of WV and are viewed as poor hill billy, meth using, fat slobs who are missing their teeth. But then they live so close to Pittsburgh as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2010 Cleveland's not even in the top 40 in terms of crime rate by city http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States...s_by_crime_rate Were not in the top 100 in terms of coldest cities with atleast 50,000 in population http://www.city-data.com/top2/c456.html And as far as sports, atleast we have a team in the three major sports, Indians, Cavs, Browns. Weather or not a Team has won a championship in the last decade isnt a barometer as to weather the cites miserable to live in. Columbus has no professional teams and a higher crime rate. There reasoning for selecting Cleveland #1 has no merit. Uhm, Columbus does have a team in one of the Big Four: the NHL Bluejackets. (and of course they have the Columbus Crew in the still...in my opinion...minor league sport of soccer, the MLS Columbus Crew) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2010 OK, so I have been giving some thought to this so called Forbes Magazine listing of Cleveland as the most "Miserable city" in the USA. I have to believe that they came up with a predetermined answer on this because what they say makes absolutelty no sense. They don't follow their own criteria. Forbes Criteria for determining their most miserable city, they claim was based on the following factors: 1. Location of Superfund sites in an area...this relates to essentially ground/water pollution only. (Superfund has nothing to do with smog/air pollution) 2. Unemployment rates 3. Local tax rates 4. Commute times 5. Crime Rate 6. Weather 7 Sports team performance Lets look at these in turn (I may make several posts of this so as not to lose continuity in its separate parts): 1 Superfund. I will give you here a map of the Superfund sites in the US: Look at Cleveland. Not a single red dot. Red Dots are cites that need cleaned up. Green dots are sites that have been cleaned up satisfactorily. There are a few red dots in the Akron/Youngstown area. But compare this area to much of the East Coast which is covered in red dots, or to the likes of Charlotte, St. Louis, LA, San Fran, Seattle, Houston. this area is a garden of eden compared to many of those. And while I could not find a Superfund listing by city, I did find a ranking by state, and the top 10 states are: New Jersey California Pennsylvania New York Michigan Florida Washington Illinois Texas Wisconsin the there was Ohio at 11. Oddly, the state with the least Superfund sites was Nevada with only 1 site. You want to bet they excluded nuclear waste dumping sites for their "pollution index"? So, obviously, apparently, it is not the location of Superfund pollution sites in Cleveland that spur its #1 most miserable ranking. It must be something else. I will continue in another post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2010 OK, the next Criteria of Forbes Most Miserable City list I will tackle is that of Local Tax Rates. Now get this: The following is FORBES MAGAZINES list of Highest local tax rates for major US cities (not in order): Chicago Los Angeles New York San Francisco Seattle New Orleans Houston Dallas Charlotte Las Vegas Philadelphia Atlanta Cleveland is not on this list at all. ABC News put out a report of the highest tax rates in various cities, including smaller ones. Here were their top 5: Bridgeport, Conn. Des Moines, Iowa Providence, RI Newark NJ Manchester NH Also, of all the state, Ohio has only the 21st highest effective Sales tax rate. Ohio also ranks only 38th highest in State income tax rates. So, apparently it is not Cleveland Tax rate which spurs its No. 1 most miserable city ranking. It must be something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2010 Onward to the next criteria for Forbes Ranking: The Crime Rate Per the FBI's list of cities with the most violent crimes per capita, the following top the list: 1. New York 2. Los Angeles 3. Chicago 4. Houston 5. Phoenix 6. Philadelphia 7. Las Vegas 8. San Antonio 9. Dallas 10. San Diego 11. San Jose 12. Honolulu Where does Cleveland sit? 33rd So, apparently it is not Cleveland's Crime rate that rate's it as America's #1 most miserable city. It must be something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2010 Moving on to the next criteria on Forbes list: Commute time. Here is the list compiled by...who?....FORBES Magazine on the cities in America with the worst traffic and commute time: 1. Los Angeles 2. San Fran/Oaklan 3. Washington D.C. 4. Atlanta 5. Houston 6. Dallas/Ft. Worth 7. Chicago 8. Detroit 9. Riverside/San Bernadino 10. Orlando 11. San Jose 12. San Diego Cleveland is not even in the Top 30 of their list. So, apparently it is not "Commute Time" that puts Cleveland on the top of the "Most Miserable city list. It must be something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2010 Alright, next up to bat is the following criteria established by Forbes for its list: Unemployment: According to the March Department of Labor statistics, ALL of the following cities have higher Unemployment rates than does Cleveland, Ohio: El Centro CA Yuma Ariz. Stockton CA Palm Coast FLA Ocean City NJ Flint, Mich. Bend, Oregon Santa Cruz CA Elkhart, Ind. Riverside CA Vero Beach FLA New Bedford Mass. Las Vegas Atlantic City Reno Providence Sacramento Tampa San Jose Orlando Jacksonville Charlotte Los Angeles Miami Portland Ore. San Francisco San Diego St. Louis Louisville Memphis Cincinnati Cleveland, Tennessee!! Milwaukee Columubus In fact, Cleveland only ranked 179th in the nation in unemployment rate. So apparently it is not "Unemployment" rate that gave Cleveland its #1 rank as most miserable city. It must be something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2010 OK, so let's move along in this analysis. The next criteria on Forbes list is: Weather. Here are several sources on weather: First, The Farmer's Almanac ( a pretty reliable source, fair to say?) Here are their top worst weather cities in America: Quillayatte. Washington Astoria, Oregon Marquette, Michigan Syracuse, NY Elkins WVa New Orleans Eugene, Ore. Hilo, Hawaii. (doing a double take? Yea, Hawaii) The Farmer's Almanac takes in all criteria: obviously including snow, Cloudy days, and humidity. the Oregon locations suffer from the cloudy, humid issue...as does Hilo. Syracuse and Marquette obviously get the snow and cold. Another poster noted the cities in America that are cold. I will simply reference that post to show how we here are not nearly as cold as many, many other places around. And I have always said, I would rather spend a winter around here than a summer in Florida. And you can add several other locatins to that phrase. Citydata.com gave this list of the cities with the worst, hottest/muggiest summer weather: Brownsville, Texas Columbia, SC Ft. Meyers Fla. Houston Jackson, Miss. Laredo Texas Miami New Orleans Oklahoma City Palm Springs Phoenix Yuma Why on earthe would Forbes not do a list of worst overall weather? Forbes did do a "Worst Winter Weather" list. Notice they only did "winter". Here was their list: 10. Baltimore 9. Detroit 8. Columbus 7. Indianapolis 6. Minneapolis 5. Chicago 4. Minneapolis 3. New York 2. Boston 1. Cleveland OK, so they have Cleveland on this list because we get a lot of snow in winter. (I notice that Buffalo, which gets more snow is not on here...but I am not here to pile on Buffalo) But, note this, the following cities all get more snow in the winter on average than Cleveland: Denver, Anchorage, Portland,Maine; Salt Lake City. So, what? If you get a lot of snow but you have some nice ski resorts nearby they think that somehow the Winter weather doesn't suck just as bad there? Pretty arbitrary in my view. I am not saying that Cleveland doesn't have bad winters that we would like to do without, but, note, for those areas affected by lake effect snow, Cleveland has about the least amount of snow. Rochester, Buffalo, Sault St. Marie, all up and down the western coast of Michigan there is tremendous snow. And I guess Forbes must exclude Alaska from the "bad weather" thought process...but note: Valdez, Alaska gets an average of 326 inches of snow a year, compared to Cleveland's 57 inches. So far though, based on their own incestuous ranking, this is the ONLY criteria so far that Forbes can claim that Cleveland has it a bit more miserable than other places. But still, there must be more to it than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2010 OK, I see that Forbes final, newly added criteria is "Sports team success". Now, we know that Cleveland has had poor luck with the success of its sports teams, but what constitutes "success"? I mean, let's ask this: Is it better to have a team and have it disappoint? Or to not have a team at all? Let's look at a couple of factors: 1. Yes Cleveland has not had a major team title since 1964...Browns NFL. So, let's compare "misery" along that lines with another city: Let's take: San Diego!! And compare on all fronts with Cleveland: San Diego has not had a major team title since 1963, when the Chargers last won an AFL title. And San Diego LOST the Clippers to LA. Cleveland kept our team when it tried to move. The San Diego area is quite a bit larger now than the Cleveland, almost twice the size, yet it has only 2 major sports franchises compared to Cleveland's 3. And how about the others: A. On the Superfund map, San Diego seems to have a couple of major sites. Cleveland has none. B. San Diego has the 10th worst crime rate in the US, Cleveland 33rd. C. San Diego has the 12th worst commute time, Cleveland is not even in the top 30. D. San Diego has a higher unemployment rate than Cleveland. E.On the report that noted that Ohio's tax rate ranked 38th, it also noted that California's effective tax rate was like third highest in the country. On every criteria...San Diego is worse than Cleveland: pollution, crime, congestion, unemployment, sports team failure, tax rate....every criteria but one: Winter weather. Does San Diego's nice weather trump ALL the advantages that Cleveland has over it? (Well, maybe...but really?) On the sports team failure criteria also consider: Is Cleveland's failure to win a title as bad as losing two NFL teams like LA has? I have talked about San Diego which is double the size of Cleveland having only 2 team, and I mentioned LA having no NFL teams, but also consider these: 1. The Seattle area, which is larger than the Cleveland area by far also has only 2 teams, having lost their NBA team (and that city has had no title since 1979). 2. St. Louis..larger than Cleveland... lost their NBA and NFL teams before getting one back. 3. Baltimore...larger than Cleveland has only 2 teams and now has to glom off DC for hockey and NBA. 4. Portland, Oregon, a metro area only about 200,000 people less than Cleve. is a one horse town with only an NBA team 5. The same is true for Sacramento, only about 400K less people than Cleveland. 6. The same is true for San Antonio. If you include the Austin area it is bigger than the Cleveland area...has only 1 horse, the Spurs. 7. Las Vegas, a no horse town is now only about 400K less in population than Cleveland. 8. The same is true for the Virginia Beach/Norfolk area. No teams at all. Is it better to have a team and lose or to have no team at all? And, again, what happens if the Cavs win? Then Forbes will having nothing to fall back on except that we are a town that gets some snow in winter, but less than Denver or Salt Lake. So much for this analysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted May 4, 2010 Report Share Posted May 4, 2010 Red dots/green dots can also be perceived as places that still have manufacturing and places that don't....I think Detroit has a green dot. You can't tell me that place is cleaned up....it just isn't polluting the way it was since everything is shut down.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2010 Red dots/green dots can also be perceived as places that still have manufacturing and places that don't....I think Detroit has a green dot. You can't tell me that place is cleaned up....it just isn't polluting the way it was since everything is shut down.. Well, for this purpose, one of Forbes criteria was the presence of Superfund sites. The map notes in red the sites that are still of concern, and in green the sites they say are cleaned up. Dots don't represent specific cities...they are physical locations of concern to the Superfund. Theoretically a single city could have 10 or 12 dots I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Eater Posted May 5, 2010 Report Share Posted May 5, 2010 excellent analysis, Gip. Who knows what Forbes was thinking. Someone should also tell them that it was municipal stadium that was called the Mistake by the Lake, not Cleveland itself. Morons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2010 excellent analysis, Gip. Who knows what Forbes was thinking. Someone should also tell them that it was municipal stadium that was called the Mistake by the Lake, not Cleveland itself. Morons. Precisely. I figure that some editor in some building in New York made the decision that because Cleveland was kinda cold and snowy that it should lead the list. The only other thing the article says about Cleveland is that it is losing population. Yet, overcongestion was one of the factors they cite to make a city miserable. I would think that losing people would lead to less congestion...and thus more happiness. And I agree. I once spent 4 hours in traffic in rush hour around Washington D.C. Give me a little lake effect snow all winter long as long as I didn't have to deal with that every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2019 Wanted to bump this up now to again see how absurd this analysis was. And if you take one factor: team success, since I posted this Cleveland of course has had the Cavs win a championship and the Indians appear in another World Series, and What happened in San Diego? They lost another team that left town. And another thing is with global warming the winters here are slightly milder than they used to be. No they’re not as good as San Diego but again Cleveland had a better rating than San Diego in 11 out of the 12 criteria. I don’t know if there was ever a follow-up to this in the last five years but But I thought I would dig this up just again to show how idiotic it was Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjp28 Posted July 21, 2019 Report Share Posted July 21, 2019 Well my old favorite Forbes magazine 20 happiest and unhappiest cities in 2019........hello Ohio? Top 20 Happiest Cities in America https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2019/03/12/20-happiest-and-20-unhappiest-cities-in-america/#7a6bad483a70 Plano, Texas Irvine, California Madison, Wisconsin Fremont, California Huntington Beach, California Fargo, North Dakota Grand Prairie, Texas San Jose, California Scottsdale, Arizona San Francisco, California Bismarck, North Dakota Overland Park, Kansas Santa Rosa, California Austin, Texas Sioux Falls, South Dakota Pearl City, Hawaii Glendale, California San Diego, California St. Paul, Minnesota Charleston, South Carolina 20 Unhappiest Cities in America Detroit, Michigan Toledo, Ohio Charleston, West Virginia Birmingham, Alabama Cleveland, Ohio Gulfport, Mississippi Little Rock, Arkansas Huntington, West Virginia Newark, New Jersey Mobile, Alabama Augusta, Georgia St. Louis, Missouri Fort Smith, Arkansas Cincinnati, Ohio Akron, Ohio Fayetteville, North Carolina Columbus, Georgia Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Memphis, Tennessee Shreveport, Louisiana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted July 21, 2019 Report Share Posted July 21, 2019 I wonder how they came up with 'happiest' city. What a load of crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2019 4 hours ago, DieHardBrownsFan said: I wonder how they came up with 'happiest' city. What a load of crap. You are right I am sure that this is just a complete pile of horseshit. And not likely having actually used any of the data that they had available to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjp28 Posted July 22, 2019 Report Share Posted July 22, 2019 1 hour ago, The Gipper said: You are right I am sure that this is just a complete pile of horseshit. And not likely having actually used any of the data that they had available to them. Yeah I'm sure the Dakotas are the happiest places on Earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted July 23, 2019 Report Share Posted July 23, 2019 On 5/1/2010 at 10:55 AM, CLEVELandMILIDH said: Cleveland's not even in the top 40 in terms of crime rate by city http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States...s_by_crime_rate According to that chart you provided Cleveland's crime rate of 1556+ per 100,000 is #7 worst in the country after St. Louis, Detroit, Baltimore, Memphis, KC and Milwaukee. Read the chart again under "Total" per 100,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2019 13 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said: According to that chart you provided Cleveland's crime rate of 1556+ per 100,000 is #7 worst in the country after St. Louis, Detroit, Baltimore, Memphis, KC and Milwaukee. Read the chart again under "Total" per 100,000. I wrote: Per the FBI's list of cities with the most violent crimes per capita, the following top the list: 1. New York 2. Los Angeles 3. Chicago 4. Houston 5. Phoenix 6. Philadelphia 7. Las Vegas 8. San Antonio 9. Dallas 10. San Diego 11. San Jose 12. Honolulu Tell me where you think I got this data from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted July 23, 2019 Report Share Posted July 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, The Gipper said: Tell me where you think I got this data from Not yours Gip. I was using the total crime rate per 100,000 from the quote I included in my response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2019 1 minute ago, TexasAg1969 said: Not yours Gip. I was using the total crime rate per 100,000 from the quote I included in my response. Well, I used something that said "FBI list of cities with most violent crimes per capita." I don't know if I used Wikipedia, or the FBI's own website, or something else. I didn't make it up. Not sure where I got it. (remember also...I did this research in 2010....the stats you reflect are from 2017. Don't know if things could have changed that drastically in that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjp28 Posted July 23, 2019 Report Share Posted July 23, 2019 52 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said: According to that chart you provided Cleveland's crime rate of 1556+ per 100,000 is #7 worst in the country after St. Louis, Detroit, Baltimore, Memphis, KC and Milwaukee. Read the chart again under "Total" per 100,000. One bad side of town or neighborhood or suburb can kind of ruin things for a ciy or region happens now all over the world. Just look at South Chicago or the east side of Cleveland or South Central LA or many other cities now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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