The Tyranny of liberals/progressives

[calfoxwc]

 

Christian preacher on hooligan charge after saying he believes that homosexuality is a sin

 

Last updated at 11:59 PM on 1st May 2010

 

A Christian street preacher has been arrested and charged with a public-order offence after saying that homosexuality was sinful.

 

 

Dale Mcalpine was handing out leaflets to shoppers when he told a passer-by and a gay police community support officer that, as a Christian, he believed homosexuality was one of a number of sins that go against the word of God.

 

 

Mr Mcalpine said that he did not repeat his remarks on homosexuality when he preached from the top of a stepladder after his leafleting.

 

But he has been told that police officers are alleging they heard him making his remarks to a member of the public in a loud voice that could be overheard by others.

 

Mcalpine, 42, who earns about £40,000 a year in the energy industry, was arrested and taken to the local police station in the back of a police van after preaching in the Cumbrian town of Workington on April 20.

 

After seven hours locked up in a cell, he was charged with using abusive or insulting words or behaviour contrary to the Public Order Act 1986.

 

 

Mr Mcalpine – who has delivered open-air sermons and handed out leaflets in Workington for years, and has never been in trouble with the police – said the incident was one of the worst moments of his life.

 

 

‘I felt deeply shocked and humiliated that I had been arrested in my own town and treated like a common criminal in front of people I know,’ he said.

 

 

‘My freedom was taken away on the hearsay of someone who disliked what I said, and I was charged under a law that doesn’t apply.’

 

 

He said he was not homophobic and has gay friends, but he feels compelled by his faith to urge people to abandon all types of sins so they can seek salvation.

 

‘If you are preaching hate and calling on people to harm others, it is right that is against the law,’ he said. ‘But I would never do that. If we have a free society, I should be allowed to preach the Gospel as generations have before me.’

 

 

 

Christian campaigners said last night they were alarmed that the police seemed to be using legislation originally introduced to deal with violent and abusive rioters and football hooligans to curb free speech.

 

Neil Addison, a barrister and expert on religious law, said: ‘People should be able to express their opinions freely as long as their conduct is reasonable. In fact, it is part of the duty of the police to protect free speech.’

Mike Judge, a spokesman for the Christian Institute, which is supporting Mr Mcalpine, said: ‘Dale is an ordinary, everyday Christian with traditional views about sexual ethics.

 

 

'Some people will agree with him, others will disagree. But it’s not for the police to arrest someone just because others may disagree with what is said.’

 

 

Mr Mcalpine’s ordeal began when he and two other Christians went to the pedestrianised shopping precinct in the centre of Workington.

 

 

He took a small stepladder and a rucksack of Christian leaflets and met full-time preacher Keith Bullock from Carlisle and a friend from his evangelical church in Workington.

 

 

Mr Bullock began speaking from the stepladder outside a mobile phone shop close to

a number of stores and coffee bars.

 

 

Mr Mcalpine said he and his church colleague handed out to passers-by leaflets explaining the Ten Commandments or offering a ‘ticket to heaven’.

 

 

He recalled: ‘It wasn’t very busy, but within about five minutes I noticed two police community support officers in fluorescent waistcoats and blue peaked caps watching from about ten feet.’

 

 

Mr Mcalpine said a woman came up to him and they became engaged in a debate about his faith, during which he says he recited a number of sins referred to in 1 Corinthians in the Bible, including blasphemy, fornication, adultery, drunkenness and homosexuality, as well as talking about repentance and salvation.

 

 

He and the woman were standing close to each other and he said he did not raise his voice.

 

 

Mr Mcalpine says that as the woman left, one of the two officers, PCSO Sam Adams, approached her and had a brief chat before walking towards him. Mr Mcalpine asked Mr Adams if everything was OK.

 

 

According to Mr Mcalpine, Mr Adams said there had been complaints and warned him that if he made racist or homophobic remarks he could be arrested. Mr Mcalpine said: ‘I told him I was not homophobic but sometimes I did say that the Bible says homosexuality is a crime against the Creator, but it was not against the law to say this.

 

 

‘The PCSO then told me he was gay and he was the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender liaison officer for the police. ‘I said, “It is still a sin”, and our conversation ended. It wasn’t a loud or aggressive conversation.’

 

 

Mr Adams has been a member of Cumbria police’s LGBT staff association and last year represented the force at the Gay Pride festival in Manchester, marching in the parade with a police dog named Whistle.

 

On the social networking site MySpace, he describes his orientation as gay and his religion as atheist.

 

Soon after midday, Mr Mcalpine took over from Mr Bullock on the stepladder and says he preached for about 20 minutes.

 

 

He said he mentioned drunkenness and adultery, and that religions such as Buddhism, Islam and even Roman Catholicism were not the way of salvation, but did not speak about homosexuality.

 

 

During the sermon he was heckled by a middle-aged man who berated his colleague Mr Bullock, asking what right he had to preach that drunkenness was wrong.

 

 

At that point Mr Adams, who Mr Mcalpine said had been talking on his radio, intervened, and the man left.

 

 

A few minutes later three regular uniformed policemen arrived and Mr Mcalpine said one asked him if he had made homophobic remarks.

 

 

Mr Mcalpine said he told the officers that while he was not homophobic, he did believe homosexuality was a sin and there was no law against saying so.

 

 

‘I knew that I hadn’t done anything wrong so I told myself to remain calm, but it was very intimidating,’ he recalled.

 

 

‘I was then arrested, read my rights and put into the back of a marked police van. When we got to the station they emptied my pockets, took my mobile and my belt and my trainers, so I was in my socks.’

 

 

Mr Mcalpine was put in a cell and asked for his Bible. ‘I read it and sang hymns like Amazing Grace as loudly as I could,’ he said.

 

 

Police took his fingerprints, a palm print, a retina scan and a DNA swab. He eventually saw the duty solicitor and was interviewed by an officer in a room equipped with a table, four chairs and a recording device.

 

 

Mr Mcalpine was told that the two PCSOs had alleged that they heard him shouting that homosexuality was a sin, which had distressed them and members of the public.

He was eventually charged under Sections 5 (1) and (6) of the Public Order Act 1986 and released on bail on the condition that he did not preach in public.

 

 

At a preliminary hearing on Friday in Workington magistrates’ court, Mr Mcalpine pleaded not guilty and he is now awaiting a trial date. The two PCSOs are expected to attend as witnesses.

 

Shoppers in Workington were bemused by what had happened to Mr Mcalpine.

Rob Logan, the assistant manager of the O2 mobile phone store near where Mr Mcalpine preached, said he had no complaints.

 

 

‘He hands out leaflets, he says his piece and then he leaves,’ said Mr Logan. ‘He is

not aggressive or threatening. He is gentle.’

 

 

The Rev Arthur Bentley-Taylor, 68, vicar of the Emmanuel evangelical church where Mr Mcalpine worships, said:

 

 

‘As far as I am concerned, this is about free speech. If we arrested everybody who said something we found offensive, everyone would be in prison.’

 

 

The Public Order Act 1986 has been used by the police in a number of similar cases, including that of Ben and Sharon Vogelenzang, the Christian hoteliers cleared earlier this year of insulting a Muslim guest at their Liverpool hotel.

 

 

In 2002 pensioner Harry Hammond was convicted under Section 5 of the Public Order Act. When preaching in Bournemouth, Mr Hammond held up a sign saying: ‘Stop Immorality’, ‘Stop Homosexuality’, ‘Stop Lesbianism’, ‘Jesus is Lord’.

 

 

In 2006, police arrested and charged Christian campaigner Stephen Green for handing out leaflets at a Gay Pride festival in Cardiff. The case was dropped.

 

 

Last night Cumbria police said there was no one available to comment on Mr Mcalpine’s case.

 

 

 

How long until Christians are blackmailed for daring to speak?

 

By PETER HITCHENS

 

Revolutions do not always involve guillotines or mobs storming palaces. Sometimes they are made by middle-aged gentlemen in wigs, sitting in somnolent chambers of the High Court.

 

 

Sometimes they are made by police officers and bureaucrats deciding they have powers nobody knew they had, or meant them to have.

 

 

And Britain is undergoing such a revolution – quiet, step-by-step, but destined to have a mighty effect on the lives and future of us all.

 

 

The Public Order Act of 1986 was not meant to permit the arrest of Christian preachers in English towns for quoting from the Bible. But it has. The Civil Partnerships Act 2004 was not meant to force public servants to approve of homosexuality. But it has.

 

 

The Sexual Offences Act of 1967 was not meant to lead to a state of affairs where it is increasingly dangerous to say anything critical about homosexuality. But it did.

 

 

And the laws of Britain, being entirely based upon the Christian Bible, were not meant to be used by a sneering judge to declare that Christianity had no higher status in this ancient Christian civilisation than Islam, Buddhism or Hinduism.

 

 

But it has come to that this week.

 

 

How did it happen that in the course of less than 50 years we moved so rapidly from one wrong to another?

 

 

Until 1967, homosexuals could be – and were – arrested and prosecuted for their private, consenting, adult acts.

 

 

This was a cruel, bad law that should never have been made. It led to blackmail and misery of all kinds.

 

 

Those who repealed it did so out of humanity and an acceptance that we need to live in peace alongside others whose views and habits we do not share. No such generous tolerance is available from the sexual revolutionaries.

 

 

Now, as the case of Dale Macalpine shows, we are close to the point where a person can be prosecuted for saying in public that homosexual acts are wrong.

 

 

And officers of the law, once required to stay out of all controversy, get keen official endorsement when they take part in open political demonstrations in favour of homosexual equality.

 

 

We have travelled in almost no time from repression, through a brief moment of mutual tolerance, to a new repression. And at the same time, the freedom of Christians to follow their beliefs in workplaces is under aggressive attack.

 

 

Small and harmless actions, offers of prayer, the wearing of crucifixes, requests to withdraw from duties, are met with official rage and threats of dismissal, out

of all proportion.

 

 

How long before Christians are being blackmailed by work colleagues, for daring to speak their illegal views openly?

 

 

Daily the confidence of the new regime grows. The astonishing judgment of Lord Justice Laws last week, in which he pointedly snubbed Lord Carey, a former Archbishop of Canterbury, and mocked the idea that Christianity had any special place in our society, is a warning that this process has gone very deep and very far.

 

 

The frightening thing is that it has not stopped, nor is it slowing down. What cannot be said in a Workington street will soon be unsayable anywhere.

 

 

And if Christianity has officially ceased to be the basis of our law and the source of our state’s authority (a view which makes nonsense of the Coronation Service) who, and what – apart from the brute power of the manipulated mob – is to decide in future what is right, and what is not, and what can be said, and what cannot?

 

 

This process, if not halted, will lead in the end to the Thought Police and the naked rule of power.

 

 

 

[VaporTrail]

Meanwhile, in Ireland, the "blasphemy law" went into effect at the beginning of this year. If enough people of a religion are offended by something that you say, you may be fined up to 25,000 euros. Who's fighting this law? Progressive atheists.

 

They published these 25 quotes.

 

http://blasphemy.ie/2010/01/01/atheist-ire...phemous-quotes/

 

List of 25 Blasphemous Quotes Published by Atheist Ireland

 

1. Jesus Christ, when asked if he was the son of God, in Matthew 26:64: “Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.” According to the Christian Bible, the Jewish chief priests and elders and council deemed this statement by Jesus to be blasphemous, and they sentenced Jesus to death for saying it.

 

2. Jesus Christ, talking to Jews about their God, in John 8:44: “Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him.” This is one of several chapters in the Christian Bible that can give a scriptural foundation to Christian anti-Semitism. The first part of John 8, the story of “whoever is without sin cast the first stone”, was not in the original version, but was added centuries later. The original John 8 is a debate between Jesus and some Jews. In brief, Jesus calls the Jews who disbelieve him sons of the Devil, the Jews try to stone him, and Jesus runs away and hides.

 

3. Muhammad, quoted in Hadith of Bukhari, Vol 1 Book 8 Hadith 427: “May Allah curse the Jews and Christians for they built the places of worship at the graves of their prophets.” This quote is attributed to Muhammad on his death-bed as a warning to Muslims not to copy this practice of the Jews and Christians. It is one of several passages in the Koran and in Hadith that can give a scriptural foundation to Islamic anti-Semitism, including the assertion in Sura 5:60 that Allah cursed Jews and turned some of them into apes and swine.

 

4. Mark Twain, describing the Christian Bible in Letters from the Earth, 1909: “Also it has another name – The Word of God. For the Christian thinks every word of it was dictated by God. It is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies… But you notice that when the Lord God of Heaven and Earth, adored Father of Man, goes to war, there is no limit. He is totally without mercy – he, who is called the Fountain of Mercy. He slays, slays, slays! All the men, all the beasts, all the boys, all the babies; also all the women and all the girls, except those that have not been deflowered. He makes no distinction between innocent and guilty… What the insane Father required was blood and misery; he was indifferent as to who furnished it.” Twain’s book was published posthumously in 1939. His daughter, Clara Clemens, at first objected to it being published, but later changed her mind in 1960 when she believed that public opinion had grown more tolerant of the expression of such ideas. That was half a century before Fianna Fail and the Green Party imposed a new blasphemy law on the people of Ireland.

 

5. Tom Lehrer, The Vatican Rag, 1963: “Get in line in that processional, step into that small confessional. There, the guy who’s got religion’ll tell you if your sin’s original. If it is, try playing it safer, drink the wine and chew the wafer. Two, four, six, eight, time to transubstantiate!”

 

6. Randy Newman, God’s Song, 1972: “And the Lord said: I burn down your cities – how blind you must be. I take from you your children, and you say how blessed are we. You all must be crazy to put your faith in me. That’s why I love mankind.”

 

7. James Kirkup, The Love That Dares to Speak its Name, 1976: “While they prepared the tomb I kept guard over him. His mother and the Magdalen had gone to fetch clean linen to shroud his nakedness. I was alone with him… I laid my lips around the tip of that great cock, the instrument of our salvation, our eternal joy. The shaft, still throbbed, anointed with death’s final ejaculation.” This extract is from a poem that led to the last successful blasphemy prosecution in Britain, when Denis Lemon was given a suspended prison sentence after he published it in the now-defunct magazine Gay News. In 2002, a public reading of the poem, on the steps of St. Martin-in-the-Fields church in Trafalgar Square, failed to lead to any prosecution. In 2008, the British Parliament abolished the common law offences of blasphemy and blasphemous libel.

 

8. Matthias, son of Deuteronomy of Gath, in Monty Python’s Life of Brian, 1979: “Look, I had a lovely supper, and all I said to my wife was that piece of halibut was good enough for Jehovah.”

 

9. Rev Ian Paisley MEP to the Pope in the European Parliament, 1988: “I denounce you as the Antichrist.” Paisley’s website describes the Antichrist as being “a liar, the true son of the father of lies, the original liar from the beginning… he will imitate Christ, a diabolical imitation, Satan transformed into an angel of light, which will deceive the world.”

 

10. Conor Cruise O’Brien, 1989: “In the last century the Arab thinker Jamal al-Afghani wrote: ‘Every Muslim is sick and his only remedy is in the Koran.’ Unfortunately the sickness gets worse the more the remedy is taken.”

 

11. Frank Zappa, 1989: “If you want to get together in any exclusive situation and have people love you, fine – but to hang all this desperate sociology on the idea of The Cloud-Guy who has The Big Book, who knows if you’ve been bad or good – and cares about any of it – to hang it all on that, folks, is the chimpanzee part of the brain working.”

 

12. Salman Rushdie, 1990: “The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas – uncertainty, progress, change – into crimes.” In 1989, Ayatollah Khomeini of Iran issued a fatwa ordering Muslims to kill Rushdie because of blasphemous passages in Rushdie’s novel The Satanic Verses.

 

13. Bjork, 1995: “I do not believe in religion, but if I had to choose one it would be Buddhism. It seems more livable, closer to men… I’ve been reading about reincarnation, and the Buddhists say we come back as animals and they refer to them as lesser beings. Well, animals aren’t lesser beings, they’re just like us. So I say xxxx the Buddhists.”

 

14. Amanda Donohoe on her role in the Ken Russell movie Lair of the White Worm, 1995: “Spitting on Christ was a great deal of fun. I can’t embrace a male god who has persecuted female sexuality throughout the ages, and that persecution still goes on today all over the world.”

 

15. George Carlin, 1999: “Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there’s an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever ’til the end of time! But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He’s all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can’t handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, talk about a good bullshit story. Holy Shit!”

 

16. Paul Woodfull as Ding Dong Denny O’Reilly, The Ballad of Jaysus Christ, 2000: “He said me ma’s a virgin and sure no one disagreed, Cause they knew a lad who walks on water’s handy with his feet… Jaysus oh Jaysus, as cool as bleedin’ ice, With all the scrubbers in Israel he could not be enticed, Jaysus oh Jaysus, it’s funny you never rode, Cause it’s you I do be shoutin’ for each time I shoot me load.”

 

17. Jesus Christ, in Jerry Springer The Opera, 2003: “Actually, I’m a bit gay.” In 2005, the Christian Institute tried to bring a prosecution against the BBC for screening Jerry Springer the Opera, but the UK courts refused to issue a summons.

 

18. Tim Minchin, Ten-foot Cock and a Few Hundred Virgins, 2005: “So you’re gonna live in paradise, With a ten-foot cock and a few hundred virgins, So you’re gonna sacrifice your life, For a shot at the greener grass, And when the Lord comes down with his shiny rod of judgment, He’s gonna kick my heathen ass.”

 

19. Richard Dawkins in The God Delusion, 2006: “The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” In 2007 Turkish publisher Erol Karaaslan was charged with the crime of insulting believers for publishing a Turkish translation of The God Delusion. He was acquitted in 2008, but another charge was brought in 2009. Karaaslan told the court that “it is a right to criticise religions and beliefs as part of the freedom of thought and expression.”

 

20. Pope Benedict XVI quoting a 14th century Byzantine emperor, 2006: “Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.” This statement has already led to both outrage and condemnation of the outrage. The Organisation of the Islamic Conference, the world’s largest Muslim body, said it was a “character assassination of the prophet Muhammad”. The Malaysian Prime Minister said that “the Pope must not take lightly the spread of outrage that has been created.” Pakistan’s foreign Ministry spokesperson said that “anyone who describes Islam as a religion as intolerant encourages violence”. The European Commission said that “reactions which are disproportionate and which are tantamount to rejecting freedom of speech are unacceptable.”

 

21. Christopher Hitchens in God is not Great, 2007: “There is some question as to whether Islam is a separate religion at all… Islam when examined is not much more than a rather obvious and ill-arranged set of plagiarisms, helping itself from earlier books and traditions as occasion appeared to require… It makes immense claims for itself, invokes prostrate submission or ‘surrender’ as a maxim to its adherents, and demands deference and respect from nonbelievers into the bargain. There is nothing-absolutely nothing-in its teachings that can even begin to justify such arrogance and presumption.”

 

22. PZ Myers, on the Roman Catholic communion host, 2008: “You would not believe how many people are writing to me, insisting that these horrible little crackers (they look like flattened bits of styrofoam) are literally pieces of their god, and that this omnipotent being who created the universe can actually be seriously harmed by some third-rate liberal intellectual at a third-rate university… However, inspired by an old woodcut of Jews stabbing the host, I thought of a simple, quick thing to do: I pierced it with a rusty nail (I hope Jesus’s tetanus shots are up to date). And then I simply threw it in the trash, followed by the classic, decorative items of trash cans everywhere, old coffeegrounds and a banana peel.”

 

23. Ian O’Doherty, 2009: “(If defamation of religion was illegal) it would be a crime for me to say that the notion of transubstantiation is so ridiculous that even a small child should be able to see the insanity and utter physical impossibility of a piece of bread and some wine somehow taking on corporeal form. It would be a crime for me to say that Islam is a backward desert superstition that has no place in modern, enlightened Europe and it would be a crime to point out that Jewish settlers in Israel who believe they have a God given right to take the land are, frankly, mad. All the above assertions will, no doubt, offend someone or other.”

 

24. Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor, 2009: “Whether a person is atheist or any other, there is in fact in my view something not totally human if they leave out the transcendent… we call it God… I think that if you leave that out you are not fully human.” Because atheism is not a religion, the Irish blasphemy law does not protect atheists from abusive and insulting statements about their fundamental beliefs. While atheists are not seeking such protection, we include the statement here to point out that it is discriminatory that this law does not hold all citizens equal.

 

25. Dermot Ahern, Irish Minister for Justice, introducing his blasphemy law at an Oireachtas Justice Committee meeting, 2009, and referring to comments made about him personally: “They are blasphemous.” Deputy Pat Rabbitte replied: “Given the Minister’s self-image, it could very well be that we are blaspheming,” and Minister Ahern replied: “Deputy Rabbitte says that I am close to the baby Jesus, I am so pure.” So here we have an Irish Justice Minister joking about himself being blasphemed, at a parliamentary Justice Committee discussing his own blasphemy law, that could make his own jokes illegal.

 

Finally, as a bonus, Micheal Martin, Irish Minister for Foreign Affairs, opposing attempts by Islamic States to make defamation of religion a crime at UN level, 2009: “We believe that the concept of defamation of religion is not consistent with the promotion and protection of human rights. It can be used to justify arbitrary limitations on, or the denial of, freedom of expression. Indeed, Ireland considers that freedom of expression is a key and inherent element in the manifestation of freedom of thought and conscience and as such is complementary to freedom of religion or belief.” Just months after Minister Martin made this comment, his colleague Dermot Ahern introduced Ireland’s new blasphemy law.

[calfoxwc]

Sorry, but you are messing up my thread.

 

My thread is about saying homosexuality is a sin, per

the person's beliefs and interpretation of the Bible, and being fined for having that opinion.

 

It isn't about vicious hard hitting comedy, or intentionally dissing other's religions....

 

can we stay on topic? "sigh"

[Mr. T]

This is another slap against freedom of speech.

[VaporTrail]

Sorry, but you are messing up my thread.

 

No, I'm not.

It's not like you haven't posted crap that's vaguely related

http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php...st&p=171887

 

My thread is about saying homosexuality is a sin, per

the person's beliefs and interpretation of the Bible, and being fined for having that opinion.

 

It isn't about vicious hard hitting comedy, or intentionally dissing other's religions....

 

can we stay on topic? "sigh"

 

Your topic is titled "The Tyranny of liberals/progressives." You're saying that they are responsible for the loss of someone's freedom of speech. Those aren't progressives, they're left-wing nuts. Right-wing nuts are just as responsible for these losses. What I posted is just as relevant. Except it's lefties defending free speech and righties trying to deny it. What I posted isn't people trying to be funny, it's people defending freedom of speech. It needs to be protected regardless of which side is trying to infringe upon it.

 

 

 

 

[Mr. T]

That brings up a question.

 

Is the european left wing the same as the west left wing?

 

Maybe we should consider conservative vs. liberal views.

[VaporTrail]

I'd imagine it's conservatives vs. libs over there as well.

 

My point is, both of these issues shouldn't be issues to begin with. We can't select which groups get freedom of speech, either everyone gets it, or it's not freedom of speech. I posted what I did because Cal was calling libs tyrannical while there are conservatives doing the same shit. The people infringing on free speech, in both of these cases, are wrong.

[Westside Steve]

I'd imagine it's conservatives vs. libs over there as well.

 

My point is, both of these issues shouldn't be issues to begin with. We can't select which groups get freedom of speech, either everyone gets it, or it's not freedom of speech. I posted what I did because Cal was calling libs tyrannical while there are conservatives doing the same shit. The people infringing on free speech, in both of these cases, are wrong.

 

 

That's why I hate the idea of protecting the "God Hates Fags" assholes.

But.........

 

WSS

(I'd still let the family pound the shit out of 'em and allow the cops to look the other way...)

[calfoxwc]

So, Vapor, you changed the subject.

 

Start yer own thread, fcol....

 

I posted what I posted because:

 

You posted:

 

"Except brown people in Arizona."

 

After Heck posted:

 

"Except Latinos in Arizona"

 

BOTH OF WHICH, INCLUDES ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

 

Therefore, pursuant to the subject matter at hand,

 

I posted what I posted.

 

I just didn't change the subject.

 

But here, you DID, So,

 

say you're sorry dammit. @@

 

 

[VaporTrail]

Both of these topics include people infringing on others' freedom of speech.

[calfoxwc]

Christian preacher on hooligan charge after saying he believes that homosexuality is a sin

******************

No, THIS subject is about a preacher who is being legally charged for what he believes.

 

did I miss it? Was George Carlin charged? I think not.

 

Ryan Newman? NO.

 

Ian Paisley? NO.

 

No, no, and no. It's about being legally being charged with a crime for what you believe....