May 4th, 1970

[TheClevelandSound]

So I am a freshman at KSU and this is my first time going to all of the memorial ceremonies and such. Very eerie but also a very special time. We had a ton of guest speakers today and the commemorations will go on all day.

 

Just some thoughts on the event that took placed 40 years ago.

 

Your thoughts?

[ballpeen]

Sad time.

 

 

Sad time for the students that got killed and sad time for the Guardsman who were forced to shoot.

[TheClevelandSound]

Sad time for the students that got killed and sad time for the Guardsman who were forced to shoot.

 

They weren't forced to shoot. They had control over the trigger.

[ballpeen]

They weren't forced to shoot. They had control over the trigger.

 

That is one slant. The other slant is people should have quit throwing objects and stopped to proceed forward when asked to do so.

 

 

 

Sorry man, if the man with the gun tells me to stop, I am going to stop, and leave.

 

 

It is an American tragedy no doubt......but it is so on several different levels.

 

[calfoxwc]

radical students, some who weren't even Kent students, brought in burlap

 

bags of rocks.

 

They were throwing rocks and advancing on the Guardsmen.

 

Warning shots were fired, some students got killed in different areas of the commons.

 

Some were injured.

 

All sorts of students were looking for serious trouble, even if they had to force it to happen.

 

Like, we were walking off campus right after those shootings, and two big long hairs were trying to

 

intimidate a young lone Guardsman guarding some trucks and jeeps. They were bumping into him,

 

getting in his face, and tried to put some gravel and a flower down his rifle barrel.

 

All this while the young Guardsman stayed still, at attention.

 

Right before the long hairs would have put the stuff into his barrel of his rifle....

 

my best friend and I started to go across the lane to help him.

 

But he wheeled his rifle around and pointed it at them.

 

They backed off fast.

 

Word on the campus was, that whoever had a camera with them, would be taken for a Fed,

 

and would get hurt.

 

The same word went out a year later for May 4th rallies.

 

You don't know diddley. I was there. It was not a "special time".

 

The hippies were completely dangerous and out of control, and that was BEFORE

 

we went into sociology class.

 

People were injured and killed because of the violence initiated by the leftwing students rallying.

 

[DieHardBrownsFan]

They weren't forced to shoot. They had control over the trigger.

 

Some students were throwing cherry bombs, golf balls with nails, etc. They were forced into an unfortunate situation.

[calfoxwc]

Some students were throwing cherry bombs, golf balls with nails, etc. They were forced into an unfortunate situation.

*********************

 

I never heard that, but I wouldn't doubt it. You had to be there - there were strange people all over the place that May 4th,

 

who none of my friends had EVER seen on campus before at a rally.

 

Seriously - the two big long hairs I mentioned? They were at least 6' 5" tall. Seemingly identical twins.

 

I never saw anybody like them

 

ever again, for the next couple of years I went to Kent, at ANY rally. We used to go to the rallies

 

and stand at the back of the big crowd, and us normal students @@ would make jokes in our group.

 

One day, one of the guys who had been a speaker, was standing at the back for whatever reason,

 

and heard us making fun jokes about the rally speakers, and he came up and said "damn, I always wondered

 

why there was laughing at the back of the crowd. It kept messin with my mind, man. Now I know, it's you guys

 

joking around, " and he laughed and walked away. GGG

 

Which brings to mind another story (egad...)...

 

One day, at Kent, I was done with classes and was walking from the -old- student union to the parking lot to meet some friends

 

to go to A&W and get a footlong and a megaphone of root beer and go home. Really. It was a fairly big cardboard cup that

 

was shaped like a megaphone, and indeed, could be used as one with the bottom poked out and...

 

Oops... okay, so I was walking across the Commons, and close to the dorm next to Taylor Hall, there was a

 

quart sized clear plastic bag laying there broken open. In the bag, and on the walk, was a white flour-like powder.

 

I stopped and puzzled about that for a second, and all of a sudden a window opens up at the dorm, and some

 

long hair loudly whispered "DUDE, get the hell away from that, FAST before anybody sees you !!!" and quickly shut his window.

 

I turned right and walked quickly away from it on the grass.

 

Hey, back then, I had no idea what it was. @@

 

The "glamor" of the "big bad Guardsmen assault the poor little nice students who were only protesting the war" is completely

 

lost on me. It's bogus. I'm sorry the tragedy happend. But - the famous picture of the girl kneeling over a shot student?

 

She wasn't a Kent student either. There were students from all over the country, they say - (that's from the young lady

 

protestor I wrote about in another story - her brother was in Vietnam, etc.... they were going to have an all out confrontation

 

to "make a statement that won't be forgotten".)

 

Well, they did that alright.

 

 

[Kosar_For_President]

Gloria Steinem ordered the shots.

[calfoxwc]

Kosar, .... LOL....

[The Gipper]

radical students, some who weren't even Kent students, brought in burlap

 

bags of rocks.

 

They were throwing rocks and advancing on the Guardsmen.

 

Warning shots were fired, some students got killed in different areas of the commons.

 

Some were injured.

 

All sorts of students were looking for serious trouble, even if they had to force it to happen.

 

Like, we were walking off campus right after those shootings, and two big long hairs were trying to

 

intimidate a young lone Guardsman guarding some trucks and jeeps. They were bumping into him,

 

getting in his face, and tried to put some gravel and a flower down his rifle barrel.

 

All this while the young Guardsman stayed still, at attention.

 

Right before the long hairs would have put the stuff into his barrel of his rifle....

 

my best friend and I started to go across the lane to help him.

 

But he wheeled his rifle around and pointed it at them.

 

They backed off fast.

 

Word on the campus was, that whoever had a camera with them, would be taken for a Fed,

 

and would get hurt.

 

The same word went out a year later for May 4th rallies.

 

You don't know diddley. I was there. It was not a "special time".

 

The hippies were completely dangerous and out of control, and that was BEFORE

 

we went into sociology class.

 

People were injured and killed because of the violence initiated by the leftwing students rallying.

 

 

There was no such thing as "leftwing" "rightwing" in those days. That was a creation of the 80s.

Though I was not there on campus, I know people who were, both students and guardsmen.

As for your anecdotes, I can't tell about them, but I do know one item of fact you stated that is not true: There were no "warning" shots fired by anyone. That is well documented. Verbal warnings, perhap, but no shots.

[The Gipper]

By the way, yes, students did put "things" into the guns of the guardsmen: Flowers

 

[The Gipper]

Here is a fairly neutral treatment on the subject, including film of many of the events of the day:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW5tJ4_-9uE...feature=related

[calfoxwc]

As for your anecdotes, I can't tell about them, but I do know one item of fact you stated that is not true: There were no "warning" shots fired by anyone. That is well documented. Verbal warnings, perhap, but no shots. Gip

*****************************

What I meant was, that those shots were not directly into the crowd in front of them.

 

Think about it. That many Guardsmen with that many shots and only 4 were killed? At that range,

 

I figure one shot could kill two people. @@

 

So, the shots were NOT fired directly into the crowd, they were fired elsewhere, and that means

 

they were fired as warning shots, but they richoched all over the place.

 

Go back and look at the locations of those who were killed and wounded.

 

And, the verbage I use retroactively, yes, we didn't use back then. Who cares?

 

They were commie hippies back then, Jerry Rubin telling the crowd to "kill your parents to be free" and Traitor Jane Fonda

 

saying really STUPID stuff. And I SAW those two guys pick up a few pieces of gravel from the top edge of the curb.

[calfoxwc]

A good video.

 

 

The first shot was fired into the air with a pistol eh?

 

Gosh, that sounds like a freakin WARNING shot to me.

 

61/67 shots fired AT students?

 

There would be more like 57 students killed.

 

Truth, part of what he said was NOT true.

 

A LOT of US were GLAD the National Guardsmen were there.

 

The LEFTWING hippies weren't. Too freakin bad.

 

The ROTC building was torched on a Saturday night, I believe it was.

 

But no, people had no idea why the National Guard was called in?

 

pfft.

 

 

[The Gipper]

A good video.

 

 

The first shot was fired into the air with a pistol eh?

 

Gosh, that sounds like a freakin WARNING shot to me.

 

Well, it might have been intended as a "warning shot" had it not been but one second prior to the ensuing shots. In fact, it is possible that that "warning" shot was the unintentional "trigger" for the remaining shots to be fired.

 

61/67 shots fired AT students?

 

There would be more like 57 students killed.

 

Well, there were 4 killed and I believe 14 others wounded, so a sufficient percentage of the shots hit a mark. Plus, since all the students were probably between 60-200 yards away from the guardsmen when they shot I would say that a sufficent percentage of the 61 bullets hit their marks. I think you may be putting a bit too much faith in the accuracy of the M-16 rifle at those distances, especially when I suspect that a fair percentage of the shots fired were just "frenzy shots".

 

Truth, part of what he said was NOT true.

 

A LOT of US were GLAD the National Guardsmen were there.

 

The LEFTWING hippies weren't. Too freakin bad.

 

Three of the 4 killed were just your ordinary straightlaced students walking between classes. Yea, "too freaking bad" for them. Maybe you were lucky not to be one of them. Maybe as some idiots claimed "they should have killed more of them". Maybe you and your friends would have part of the "more". The shots were indiscriminate as it pertained to "longhairs" or left wings or right wings or chicken wings. They killed or maimed whomever was in their path.

 

The ROTC building was torched on a Saturday night, I believe it was.

 

But no, people had no idea why the National Guard was called in?

 

pfft.

 

[calfoxwc]

or, maybe you are being ignorant in trying to bait me on the subject.

 

The story is, the crowd was 20 yards away. You say the Natonal Guard shot into the crowd.

 

Then you admit the people shot were 60-200 yards away and not part of the crowd.

 

Which is it? Either spew more nonsense, or just make up your mind, whatever, Gip.

 

And, my "too freakin bad" obviously is said about the leftist hippies not liking the National Guard there,

 

but we did, so "too freakin bad".

 

I never said anything of the sort about the deaths and injuries. Those were tragic.

 

But the blame goes to the hateful and dangerous leftwing criminals on campus

 

forcing a violent confrontation by throwing rocks, and the Sat night before, burning down the ROTC

 

building. ROTC didn't do a freakin thing to deserve that. If you don't like the TRUTH of what I'm saying:

 

TOO FREAKIN BAD. You're wrong. The National Guard was called in rightly so, because a LOT of us were

 

not secure ... did you know we were threatened for walking past a sit-in to go to Mr. Frank's geology class?

 

The longhair said if we crossed their "line", they would kick our ass. My best friend's comedian brother, walking with us

 

to the same class, said "you and what hippie army?" to which the other sit in folks grabbed the smart mouth longhair

 

and told him to shut up.

 

From what I heard from those who were PART OF THE RALLIES, there were plans to burn down a few other buildings,

 

and that had to stop. Imho, it was THOSE people who knew that, and reported it, that ended up also causing the National Guard to have

 

to be there.

 

If I find the time, maybe I'll post some of the pictures I took before and after the shootings. Not much there, as I recollect.

 

But don't bother with "haha you are a jerk because you made light of the deaths, etc" to try to feeble get the upper hand.

 

Anybody who read what I posted knows better.

[calfoxwc]

Furthermore, the anti war movement on campus contributed to the CONTINUING of the stupidly run war,

 

by ALIENATING the MIDDLE CLASS from the idea that the war should end.

 

That, and the anti-war movement contributed to encouraging the enemy to continue to kill American soldiers

 

by any means necessary, since Jane "traitor" Fonda, George "traitor" McGovern and the anti war movement so

 

avidly embraced their propaganda.

 

Which, was the subject of a debate I won in some speech class a whole year later, around May 4th. I had only 3 folks in class

 

agreeing with me on that subject before we debated, and I went against a smelly longhair angry hippie who had spoken er... yelled at

 

one of the rallies. After the debate was over, I had most of the entire class on my side. His buddies were making fun of him.

 

"Dude, he just kicked you ass about the movement, man....." and they'd laugh.

 

Well, after we walked out of class, he grabbed me and asked where I lived, because I was a pig and part of the problem,

 

and they were going to find me and &*^&^%$, and his friends pulled him away from me and told him he was crazy.....

 

so, I was sitting in the old student union, and a lady close friend came to my booth, and sat down and asked me how

 

things were going. I told her "great" and told her what happened. She said for me to stay there, and she'd be back.

 

?So, I sat there doing my homework, etc, having lunch, and she came back. She said I'd be fine, but to be careful for

 

going home that same day.

 

well, the next day, I was walking in the hallway of the student union, and this same guy who threatened me walked through a door,

 

and saw me... stopped right quick, kinda waved, quietly said "hi, man" and turned around and quickly walked the other direction.

 

So, I'm sitting in the student union later (stupid two hour break between classes) and my friend came in, and happily sat next

 

to me, and asked how I was doin. I told her what happened, and squinted at her and asked what she did, what that was all about.

 

She said I was fine, he'd be no problem and she couldn't tell me. I tried to tease her into telling me, but she just grinned,

 

said she never could tell anybody, kissed me on the cheek and left.

 

And she never did tell me, dammit. So, don't defend all those "peace loving students:" who were "oppressed by the Guard" on May 4th.

 

Some of them made the tragedy of May 4th happen, they just didn't think the Guard had real bullets in their guns, which I wish

 

they hadn't of had.

[The Gipper]

or, maybe you are being ignorant in trying to bait me on the subject.

 

The story is, the crowd was 20 yards away. You say the Natonal Guard shot into the crowd.

 

Then you admit the people shot were 60-200 yards away and not part of the crowd.

 

Which is it? Either spew more nonsense, or just make up your mind, whatever, Gip.

 

I don't think I am the one chasing my tail. That would be your apparent duty. I only know this: I have been to the scene. I know where the Guard stop and fired....next to the pagoda. I have seen the location of where they have marked where the bodies fell. The nearest one was at least 75 yards away from the firing point. I have seen the videos and I can use common sense to tell how far away the nearest group was that was fired at. That was probably about 60 yards. The Guard shot in the direction of the crowd/group, whatever you want to call it...and something like 14 or so were hit.

Honestly, I am not sure what it is about that statement you disagree with. Unless you are just disagreeing to be disagreeable.

 

 

And, my "too freakin bad" obviously is said about the leftist hippies not liking the National Guard there,

 

but we did, so "too freakin bad".

 

Who are "we"? Did you have a mouse in your pocket?

 

I never said anything of the sort about the deaths and injuries. Those were tragic.

 

But the blame goes to the hateful and dangerous leftwing criminals on campus

 

forcing a violent confrontation by throwing rocks, and the Sat night before, burning down the ROTC

 

building. ROTC didn't do a freakin thing to deserve that.

 

Show me where I ever disputed the fact that the guard was there for some other reason than the fact that the ROTC building was there? Because of the burning of that building there certainly was a justifiable reason to put some sort of police style force on the scene. That doesn't mean that stopping, dropping and shooting unarmed civilians was justified? (Somehow I think you do) Like I said, I think the one boy who was killed was a ROTC member himself. A couple of others were just students going to class. Most of the crowd were just onlookers out for a spree on a beautiful spring day.

 

 

If you don't like the TRUTH of what I'm saying:

 

TOO FREAKIN BAD. You're wrong. The National Guard was called in rightly so, because a LOT of us were

 

not secure ... did you know we were threatened for walking past a sit-in to go to Mr. Frank's geology class?

 

The longhair said if we crossed their "line", they would kick our ass. My best friend's comedian brother, walking with us

 

to the same class, said "you and what hippie army?" to which the other sit in folks grabbed the smart mouth longhair

 

and told him to shut up.

 

From what I heard from those who were PART OF THE RALLIES, there were plans to burn down a few other buildings,

 

and that had to stop. Imho, it was THOSE people who knew that, and reported it, that ended up also causing the National Guard to have

 

to be there.

 

If I find the time, maybe I'll post some of the pictures I took before and after the shootings. Not much there, as I recollect.

 

But don't bother with "haha you are a jerk because you made light of the deaths, etc" to try to feeble get the upper hand.

 

Anybody who read what I posted knows better.

 

[The Gipper]

Furthermore, the anti war movement on campus contributed to the CONTINUING of the stupidly run war,

 

by ALIENATING the MIDDLE CLASS from the idea that the war should end.

 

That, and the anti-war movement contributed to encouraging the enemy to continue to kill American soldiers

 

by any means necessary, since Jane "traitor" Fonda, George "traitor" McGovern and the anti war movement so

 

avidly embraced their propaganda.

 

Which, was the subject of a debate I won in some speech class a whole year later, around May 4th. I had only 3 folks in class

 

agreeing with me on that subject before we debated, and I went against a smelly longhair angry hippie who had spoken er... yelled at

 

one of the rallies. After the debate was over, I had most of the entire class on my side. His buddies were making fun of him.

 

"Dude, he just kicked you ass about the movement, man....." and they'd laugh.

 

Well, after we walked out of class, he grabbed me and asked where I lived, because I was a pig and part of the problem,

 

and they were going to find me and &*^&^%$, and his friends pulled him away from me and told him he was crazy.....

 

so, I was sitting in the old student union, and a lady close friend came to my booth, and sat down and asked me how

 

things were going. I told her "great" and told her what happened. She said for me to stay there, and she'd be back.

 

?So, I sat there doing my homework, etc, having lunch, and she came back. She said I'd be fine, but to be careful for

 

going home that same day.

 

well, the next day, I was walking in the hallway of the student union, and this same guy who threatened me walked through a door,

 

and saw me... stopped right quick, kinda waved, quietly said "hi, man" and turned around and quickly walked the other direction.

 

So, I'm sitting in the student union later (stupid two hour break between classes) and my friend came in, and happily sat next

 

to me, and asked how I was doin. I told her what happened, and squinted at her and asked what she did, what that was all about.

 

She said I was fine, he'd be no problem and she couldn't tell me. I tried to tease her into telling me, but she just grinned,

 

said she never could tell anybody, kissed me on the cheek and left.

 

And she never did tell me, dammit. So, don't defend all those "peace loving students:" who were "oppressed by the Guard" on May 4th.

 

Some of them made the tragedy of May 4th happen, they just didn't think the Guard had real bullets in their guns, which I wish

 

they hadn't of had.

 

 

. All I know is that anyone that goes around calling everyone they have a political difference with a "traitor" Is a person I instantly dismiss in terms of having any credibility.

[calfoxwc]

Jane "traitor" Fonda and George "traitor" McGovern?

 

I didn't JUST have a political difference with them.

 

I have no respect for them as human beings because of their ACTIONS and their anti-American effort rhetoric that

 

demoralized our troops, and uplifted THEIR troops.

 

If you don't get that, then there isn't much you are going to learn, if you won't listen.

 

You have been to the site, I was THERE that DAY.

 

And anybody who uses the silly "Who are "we"? Did you have a mouse in your pocket?"

 

apparently doesn't have the credibility to respect difference of opinions. I have already stated

 

before that, that "we" were there, my best friend, and his brother, and other friends.

 

WE WERE GLAD THE NATIONAL GUARD WAS THERE.

 

Anybody who is sincere, can read that I clearly said the shootings were tragic, and I would have preferred the

 

Guardsmen to have plastic bullets.

 

The leftist hippies were throwing rocks. Those that WERE throwing rocks were NOT UNARMED.

 

Face it, Gip - the hippies and their asinine rallies not only hurt the protesters who were SINCERE because

 

they had friends/family loved ones in the war... they also alienated the middle class from acting to stop the war,

 

they alienated a lot of regular students who thought their approach was extremely unAmerican and dirty and uncalled for.

 

I believe this from my personal experiences that DAY, and the couple of years that followed.

 

I hope you enjoyed your educational visit to the campus and had a nice tour. @@

[The Gipper]

Well, as I mentioned before, you are by NO means the only person who I know who was there. I have had perspective from both sides...and from neutral people. My next door neighbor was also "there on the day"...and was just a student going from one class to another and who was curious about what was going on. I worked for 5 years with....and am still friends with one of the guardsmen who was "there on the day" (he was not in the shooting group). One of the guys that was shot lives 2 blocks from where I sit right now. (so, actually I am perhaps the one with the more reasoned view on the matter...taking my perspective as a more neutral party)

And yes, anyone who would claim that George McGovern, who was a WWII veteran, a U.S. Senator for many years, a candidate for President of the United States does INDEED deserve instant dismissal of any credibility. Again, because I saw both sides of that issue. My ass was on the line probably more than yours was in terms of having to go fight in that war....and FYI, I was willing to go if I had to. Thank goodness that was the one lottery I have won in my life.

[calfoxwc]

Gip,

 

There are all sorts of perceptions about it. Of course, there are folks who see it differently.

 

But our view was right there, and I am just telling you, that my perceptions are based on continued experiences

 

for a couple of years after that day.

 

Mcgovern had a solid service record, that's good.

 

But if he commited murder, rape, etc, later on in life, it never happened because he was a veteran?

 

Mcgovern and Fonda are two of the people that NONE of us respected FOR THEIR ANTI-AMERICAN

 

politics during the Vietnam war. Mcgovern was a bigmouth punk about it, and losing the election as he did, was

 

justice served.

 

McGovern was a snide, hateful, and self-defeating politician that used the Vietnam War as his hopeful ride to the WH.

 

Most of America didn't buy it.

 

Odd, some people defend Mcgovern, etc, but to criticize Obamao now, well, THAT is "sedition".

 

I'm glad you won the lottery, Gip, and came back, cranky and all.

 

 

 

 

[The Gipper]

Gip,

 

There are all sorts of perceptions about it. Of course, there are folks who see it differently.

 

But our view was right there, and I am just telling you, that my perceptions are based on continued experiences

 

for a couple of years after that day.

 

Mcgovern had a solid service record, that's good.

 

But if he commited murder, rape, etc, later on in life, it never happened because he was a veteran?

 

Mcgovern and Fonda are two of the people that NONE of us respected FOR THEIR ANTI-AMERICAN

 

politics during the Vietnam war. Mcgovern was a bigmouth punk about it, and losing the election as he did, was

 

justice served.

 

McGovern was a snide, hateful, and self-defeating politician that used the Vietnam War as his hopeful ride to the WH.

 

Most of America didn't buy it.

 

Odd, some people defend Mcgovern, etc, but to criticize Obamao now, well, THAT is "sedition".

 

I'm glad you won the lottery, Gip, and came back, cranky and all.

 

 

Actually, my view of McGovern is that what he did was totally PRO-American. He propounded positions that were in the best interest of the United States of America, and history has shown him to be correct.

And history has shown that the snide, hateful, self-defeating politician was in fact his opponent, needless to say.

As for criticizing Obama....I have no clue what you are talking about with this "sedition" business. I have no problem if you wish to legitimately criticize his policies. Even his supporters have criticisms of his policies.

I mean who is calling who seditious....it is the ilk of the Ann Coulter types that go around with the tripe that anyone that disagrees with conservative Republican policies is a "traitor". Apparently, you drank the KoolAid.

[calfoxwc]

So, Mcgovern, who openly encouraged the enemy to kill more of our soldiers, was PRO American?

 

history never showed any such thing to be PRO American. It is to the detriment of all those soldiers who never came home,

 

your hero Mcgovern.

 

It's what he did, how he did it. All he did, was the wrong things. And it was all for leftwing politics,

 

his hatefulness alienated most of America. Not pro- nothin.

 

You should, if you read much, realize that the whole sedition biz came up with Obamao regime members.

 

Even his SC nominee doesn't think much of the 1st Amendment.

 

Nobody called "sedition" with all the hateful snipes at Bush for eight years.

 

But you criticize this marxist, radical wacko Obamao Mafiao regime? "Sedition", literally, and sometimes cloaked

 

in hints and innuendo.

 

I don't know of any "Ann Colter type" outside of Ann Coulter. She talks too much and too fast for me, along

 

with constant overtalking.

 

Apparently, you may have a Jane Fonda poster on your wall.

 

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you aren't a longhair in reality, but you come across like William Kuntsler, sp?

[The Gipper]

So, Mcgovern, who openly encouraged the enemy to kill more of our soldiers, was PRO American?

 

history never showed any such thing to be PRO American. It is to the detriment of all those soldiers who never came home,

 

your hero Mcgovern.

 

It's what he did, how he did it. All he did, was the wrong things. And it was all for leftwing politics,

 

his hatefulness alienated most of America. Not pro- nothin.

 

You should, if you read much, realize that the whole sedition biz came up with Obamao regime members.

 

Even his SC nominee doesn't think much of the 1st Amendment.

 

Nobody called "sedition" with all the hateful snipes at Bush for eight years.

 

But you criticize this marxist, radical wacko Obamao Mafiao regime? "Sedition", literally, and sometimes cloaked

 

in hints and innuendo.

 

I don't know of any "Ann Colter type" outside of Ann Coulter. She talks too much and too fast for me, along

 

with constant overtalking.

 

Apparently, you may have a Jane Fonda poster on your wall.

 

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you aren't a longhair in reality, but you come across like William Kuntsler, sp?

 

You come off like Joseph Goebbels: Tell the biggest lie you can think of enough times and people begin to believe it.

McGovern promoting the killing of American troops: a big fat f***ing lie. McGovern's hatefullness alienating America? Are you sure you are not living in a parallel universe? That describes pretty much to a T the actions and personality of Nixon.

Sedition accusations by Obama? Why is it that no one has ever heard of these accusations except perhaps on Fox News? Because it was created, lock,stock, barrel by the wacko right wing.

Look, here is the bottom line: You asshole Republicans Fu*ked things up so much in this country that it led to your worst nightmare happening: you elected a Democrat, a black person to boot. Your "Divine right" to hold the Presidency was proven to be a fallacy. That is a truth you can't apparently handle, so oh so many of you are going off the deep end and have seemed to coalesce into a frenzied cabal. Sorry dude, but that cabal does not control the world, though you would like it to. And it does not control history, though you would like it to.

As for Jane Fonda posters? No, not that I recall. But I did have Lennon/Marx posters: John and Groucho.

Am I a longhair? No, I do not know how to conduct an orchestra.

But I do like Willie Nelson's braided long hair. If you like Willie Nelson are you a longhair?

Kuntlser? No, I was more of a F. Lee Bailey fan.

See, the thing here is, and anyone who knows me can tell you: I am pretty much a Centrist. I have my criticisms of both Ds and Rs, I have my criticisms of both left and right.

Where my son goes to school, they have a slogan: Take the Middlepath. That is a philosophy I pretty much concur with. In fact, I have even thought of instituting a "Middlepath Policy Center" (considering that I do have a political science and a law degree and have been involved in government in one shape or form for 25 years). I haven't followed through because, first, it is just an idea right now that would take a lot of work to accomplish and I may need permission from that school to implement it...though the name should be in the public domain.

Your ilk though can apparently no more tolerate a centrist than they can someone who really is far out on the left. To you, it is all the same apparently.

[calfoxwc]

All you had to do was say:

 

"I'm sorry to diss your viewpoint on May 4th, Calfox..."

 

and sing the "I'm So Sorry" song.

 

Ya didn't have to get all flysies into ragsies.

 

gosh. Some people must sleep on a bed of nails during nappie time.

[The Gipper]

All you had to do was say:

 

"I'm sorry to diss your viewpoint on May 4th, Calfox..."

 

and sing the "I'm So Sorry" song.

 

Ya didn't have to get all flysies into ragsies.

 

gosh. Some people must sleep on a bed of nails during nappie time.

 

 

Huh?

[calfoxwc]

I never said anything about you being a centrist, dipstick.

 

You keep your middle of the road ideology,

 

I'll just stick to my AMERICAN VALUES AND PRINCIPLES.

 

That way, I don't have to tippy-toe liberal-wacko-wise,

 

around believing stuff.

 

I know what I believe in, and I vote accordingly, and I see things through that filter.

 

I don't believe in crap because some lunkhead spouts off, or some org gets riled if I don't.

 

You keep your peer pressure, I'm good with my AMERICAN VALUES and PRINCIPLES.

 

And there are a LOT of DEMOCRATS, INDEPENDENTS, along with a whole lot more REPUBLICANS

 

who know that this dirty, corrupt Obamao admin is not what we are.

 

And, neither were the phoney slugs from May 4th.

 

Before you say "nyah nyah nyah, Cal, you are saying that all people who went to May 4th are slugs,

 

so you're stupid.".......... there were phoney slugs there on May 4th, and a year thereafter, etc.

 

They caused many, many of our soldiers to never make it back home.

 

Here's a clue: That was NOT Mcgovern "Pro American". I need a spitttoon for effect.

[The Gipper]

I never said anything about you being a centrist, dipstick.

 

You keep your middle of the road ideology,

 

I'll just stick to my AMERICAN VALUES AND PRINCIPLES.

 

That way, I don't have to tippy-toe liberal-wacko-wise,

 

around believing stuff.

 

I know what I believe in, and I vote accordingly, and I see things through that filter.

 

I don't believe in crap because some lunkhead spouts off, or some org gets riled if I don't.

 

You keep your peer pressure, I'm good with my AMERICAN VALUES and PRINCIPLES.

 

And there are a LOT of DEMOCRATS, INDEPENDENTS, along with a whole lot more REPUBLICANS

 

who know that this dirty, corrupt Obamao admin is not what we are.

 

And, neither were the phoney slugs from May 4th.

 

Before you say "nyah nyah nyah, Cal, you are saying that all people who went to May 4th are slugs,

 

so you're stupid.".......... there were phoney slugs there on May 4th, and a year thereafter, etc.

 

They caused many, many of our soldiers to never make it back home.

 

Here's a clue: That was NOT Mcgovern "Pro American". I need a spitttoon for effect.

 

 

Cal, do you like your KoolAid Orange, Grape or Lemon-Lime?

[calfoxwc]

I drink root beer, and sometimes Coke,

 

and I make iced sun tea a lot, and lemonade,

 

and lots of water.

 

but I am going to start making the lemonade with real

 

lemons instead of from the Real-lemon concentrate stuff.

 

How do you like your kool-aid, banana, black cherry, or tuti-fruity patootie?

 

Our conversation is going downhill fast, and it's 80 percent your fault.