Guest geoffmyers Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 If you were like me yesterday after the game you can say simply say that was one of the worst performances by a Cleveland sports team in recent memory. It was worse than the ’99 team. Lets find out the problem. First one will be obvious but the next one might sting a little. If you look at the the teams that are failing on a consistence basis in the NFL, dont look much farther than the owner. It all stems from the top and trickles down to the bottom. People can bang on Art Modell all they want but he was a dedicated owner. He truly wanted this team like the fans to win and he knew what it took to have a winner on the field. Besides some mishaps in his tenure, Modell for the most part had great draft picks and his past GM’s did a great job putting the pieces in place. The ownership of the Browns was not just a hobby or another feather in his hat, Art bled Orange and Brown like the rest of us. I can remember as a kid watching NBC pan to his luxury box at the Stadium as well on the road and Art would be wearing his tan three quarter winter coat with his wife by his side. Man I miss those days! I can hear Don Criqui saying, “The Browns WIN and Art Modell and friends are ecstatic” If I mistaken or does Randy Lerner live in New York? There’s the problem right there, do not look any further to the one that is signing the paychecks. There is one more problem, the FANS. That’s right I said it. This town and City will continue to support losing teams. Every home game will be sold out, so what’s the incentive for a winning product on the field. If Burger King was guaranteed they were going to make a billions of $$ in sales for the year do you think they would pay millions in advertisement campaigns or try to put more products in there menu to too generate more business? The fans will continue to pack the stadiums because lets face it, what else is there to do in Cleveland on a Sunday afternoon. We love our sports in Cleveland so much because its our entertainment. No beaches, no mountains just a stadium packed of Browns fans wearing there $120 Kellen Winslow jerseys each week watching another year slip away. Let all say it at once. “Wait till next year” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownIndian Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 Did you know that Randy Lerner also owns Aston villa an English football team that consistently punches way about its weight and is fifth only behind Manchester united, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea ? That is because they have an amazing and efficient staff. It is with the same faith and proven model that he took a gamble on Phil Savage. So it did not pay off this year. And judging by the mistakes i have seen on the field I do not know how we can blame Randy for it. You want a guy that bled his team color so much that he is killing the team then you have Al Davis at the other end of the spectrum. I prefer Randy to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest geoff myers Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 Did you know that Randy Lerner also owns Aston villa an English football team that consistently punches way about its weight and is fifth only behind Manchester united, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea ? That is because they have an amazing and efficient staff. It is with the same faith and proven model that he took a gamble on Phil Savage. So it did not pay off this year. And judging by the mistakes i have seen on the field I do not know how we can blame Randy for it. You want a guy that bled his team color so much that he is killing the team then you have Al Davis at the other end of the spectrum. I prefer Randy to him. Al Davis should not being even brought up in this converation. I think we all know his specific probelms. Look at the Steelers, Patriots, Colts owenership. They have owners that get it. They are smart of enough to run a organization and to put the right people in place. On the flip side, Bengals, Browns and Lions. Bad ran oraganzations. They are clueless in knowing how to build a winner. Lok at The question is than, if you think Lerner has the passion than, he simply doesen't have the brains. Either way its a mess top to bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownIndian Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 Al Davis should not being even brought up in this converation. I think we all know his specific probelms. Look at the Steelers, Patriots, Colts owenership. They have owners that get it. They are smart of enough to run a organization and to put the right people in place. On the flip side, Bengals, Browns and Lions. Bad ran oraganzations. They are clueless in knowing how to build a winner. Lok at The question is than, if you think Lerner has the passion than, he simply doesen't have the brains. Either way its a mess top to bottom. I bought al Davis, just to point out that while we are bad ... we are not in that deep a trouble. The teams you mentioned have an established officials present and were built season to season getting better and their success will eventually come down to the choice of players they have and the trades and calls. The eagles were part of that famed list ... but now, the same team has a lot of issues and no one is sure changing what will change the teams fortune. That may happen to NE or Giants too in time. Randy is not a hands on owner and so he gave the control to Savage and last year it seemed good. This year, it seems good if we can confirm that it was Savage's picking that is screwing Cleveland and not BE dropping passes or RAC not having enough fire or the OC and DC making pathetic play calls. You never know next year, all our D injured list might come back .. BE might be catching passes and the same team that we say needs some jolt might be another contender for playoff spot. Lerner has done what he can. last year it worked, this year it did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest geoff myers Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 I bought al Davis, just to point out that while we are bad ... we are not in that deep a trouble. The teams you mentioned have an established officials present and were built season to season getting better and their success will eventually come down to the choice of players they have and the trades and calls. The eagles were part of that famed list ... but now, the same team has a lot of issues and no one is sure changing what will change the teams fortune. That may happen to NE or Giants too in time. Randy is not a hands on owner and so he gave the control to Savage and last year it seemed good. This year, it seems good if we can confirm that it was Savage's picking that is screwing Cleveland and not BE dropping passes or RAC not having enough fire or the OC and DC making pathetic play calls. You never know next year, all our D injured list might come back .. BE might be catching passes and the same team that we say needs some jolt might be another contender for playoff spot. Lerner has done what he can. last year it worked, this year it did not. Listen your points are valid but your mising the big pictue. " Our owner is not hands on." Thats ridiculous. Of course you dont have to be Jerry Jones in front of the camera but you are the owner. Make executive decisions in the board room. You dont have to make your statements in public, just make the correct ones. As for the Eagles, they are having a sub par year but they for the last 10 years with Lurie they are a winnig football team. I just want the BROWNS to be in at least in the conversation when talking about the playoffs. Please dont bring up last, we all know the scheldule we faced. The owner is the guy that makes all the moves...dont forget about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JewDago Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 i agree that lerner not being as dedicated to football as he is to soccer has definitely hurt the team. the same thing happened with the bucs. as soon as their owner bought a soccer franchise, he stopped caring about his football team. it became more of an investment than a passion, and that's what we saw happen with randy lerner. you can also add the giants, redskins, falcons and cowboys to the list of teams that have owners who care, perhaps owners that care too much. however, jerry jones and arthur blank have each been involved enough to make good hires. hell, even snyder seems to have gotten jim zorn and gregg williams right. there are two huge problems with randy lerner: he's not a football guy so he has no idea how to judge coaches. all he can go on is past performance, which leads to hires like rac. second, he doesn't care enough. he could become a football guy if he cared enough to learn what it takes to be a good owner. and, actually, that's what he's doing with aston villa. but not here. it also doesn't help that, despite a crazy, rabidly loyal fanbase, the browns are a third-rate team in a shrinking market. so, as an investment, he's likely to see diminishing returns in the future. we can only hope he sells, and not to al davis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 i agree that lerner not being as dedicated to football as he is to soccer has definitely hurt the team. the same thing happened with the bucs. as soon as their owner bought a soccer franchise, he stopped caring about his football team. it became more of an investment than a passion, and that's what we saw happen with randy lerner. you can also add the giants, redskins, falcons and cowboys to the list of teams that have owners who care, perhaps owners that care too much. however, jerry jones and arthur blank have each been involved enough to make good hires. hell, even snyder seems to have gotten jim zorn and gregg williams right. there are two huge problems with randy lerner: he's not a football guy so he has no idea how to judge coaches. all he can go on is past performance, which leads to hires like rac. second, he doesn't care enough. he could become a football guy if he cared enough to learn what it takes to be a good owner. and, actually, that's what he's doing with aston villa. but not here. it also doesn't help that, despite a crazy, rabidly loyal fanbase, the browns are a third-rate team in a shrinking market. so, as an investment, he's likely to see diminishing returns in the future. we can only hope he sells, and not to al davis. I have to disagree....Being a owner that spends money to bring a winner and is hands off IS an owner I want! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ATENEARS Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 7-5..................2-14 4-10..................3-11 3-11..................7-9 9-5..................9-7 6-8..................5-11 8-8..................4-12 9-7..................6-10 11-5..................4-12 5-11..................10-6 4-5..................4-7 Which column is heads-and-shoulders better than the other? The Column on the left are the records of the Browns from when I was 7 years old until I was 16 years old (1973-1982), the one on the right is our record under the Lerner regime. One team started out winning 7 Championships in 17 years prior to the Modells taking ahold. The other started from scratch with a hastly time table by the NFL for any expansion team in history (add in the death and inheritance at the mid point). Don't sit here and tell me I am a bad fan for supporting this shit, when it is almost Identical with what I grew up on. I was born in 1967, and if I were to sit on my hands and wait until we fielded a winner, I'd be the biggest soccer homo on the face of the earth. STFU and jump off the wagon if you want, but don't bring this weakass Art Modell shit around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JewDago Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 believe me, i'm not saying i want mike brown to take over the team and stop spending money. i just want someone who knows how to evaluate a head coaching candidate, because it seems fairly obvious we've had no one up to that task since our re-inception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownIndian Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 I will again have to disagree with some statements. "i agree that Lerner not being as dedicated to football as he is to soccer has definitely hurt the team." - We do not know that. Aston villa has some very efficient personell and Martin O Neal,their coach is an awesome chap. Most of the credit should go to Martin O Neal and not Randy for the villa success. I assume Randy was expecting Phil savage & RAC to be the same kind of guy for Cleveland. "there are two huge problems with randy lerner: he's not a football guy so he has no idea how to judge coaches. all he can go on is past performance, which leads to hires like rac. " - Past performance is a good judge of a head coach. That is the reason why many are in the "cowher for cleveland" band wagon. The real problem is that since teams in NFL do not face the same teams in their schedule always, their success is always a speculative success and not an exact identification of how good the team is. This is something that does not happen in NBA or even soccer. Again I repeat, last year our easy schedule helped us over achieve and covered up many issues which are being exposed right now in this tough schedule. "the browns are a third-rate team in a shrinking market" - A few changes in coaching and coordinator positions and addition of some wanted players and return from injury could very well put us back into playoff contention (plus BE making catches, but that is understood ;-)). I'm argue with you just to irritate you or anything, but there are some things that are realistic like changes in coaching or players and some things that are mere wishes - hoping Randy sells the team to some good owner who knows what to do or hoping Browns move to NE and Patriots come here ... so it will be nice if we can try to see what the realistic future holds for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JewDago Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 @ brownindian: aston villa has dedicated, efficient personnel because lerner took the time to find them. past performance is often meaningless for coaches. belichick was horrible with the browns but great with the patriots. tom coughlin couldn't really make it work until last year. the steelers took a chance on an untested head coach who's looking pretty good right now. same with the redskins. our easy schedule is definitely why we had ten wins last year. we agree on that. a rough start to the season destroyed us and we never recovered, even though we easily could have by beating washington or baltimore. those two weeks sank this season. re: media market and third-rate: cleveland is dying. has been for years. many young people leave and don't come back. it's not a mass exodus, but the metro area is losing population at a fairly steady rate. thus, it's a shrinking market. there's less money in the area because there are less people there, which makes it harder to support luxuries like sports franchises. when signing free agents, money isn't always the deciding factor. there's winning, something we don't do, and quality of life, something cleveland doesn't have. i'm not saying that it's impossible to live well and enjoy yourself in cleveland, there are just way more options in places like new york, miami, boston and san francisco. we're a third-rate team because of geographic limitations and a tradition of losing. i never really thought that lerner would sell. i just want him to. the realistic future holds more rebuilding and strings of top-ten draft picks, with the high points being the occasional 8-8 or 7-9 season. it's possible we'll get a wild card game that we can lose. pretty much standard fare for browns fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gips Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 Did you know that Randy Lerner also owns Aston villa an English football team that consistently punches way about its weight and is fifth only behind Manchester united, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea ? That is because they have an amazing and efficient staff. It is with the same faith and proven model that he took a gamble on Phil Savage. So it did not pay off this year. And judging by the mistakes i have seen on the field I do not know how we can blame Randy for it. You want a guy that bled his team color so much that he is killing the team then you have Al Davis at the other end of the spectrum. I prefer Randy to him. 10 years of this crap and i can tell you this...if al and then randy lerner havent learned to aquire the skills needed in that amount of time to hire the right person that shares the same football mentality,philosophy and fervor for the browns that the fans have then should he even own a football team for gawds sake he inherited the darn team he outright bought the soccer team you tell me other than al davis who sucks worse than randy lerner... Cleveland browns football is a sacred thing to its fans but now under poor ownership and lerners absolutely poor decision making about whom manages the team in his total absence shows a true lack of dedication required to successfully run an nfl team all lerner is interested in is the dollar and nothing else to him its just a cash cow he doesnt go to home games he doesnt live in cleveland or even ohio he is the exact opposite of al davis one is to zealous the other dont give a rats behind about whats going on as long as the money keeps rollin in.. As much as we all(or most of us) whined about modell sucking there is no comparison as to which one loved the game and stayed involved and even attended most games home and away lerner is not the kill em all type of owner this team needs and the fans deserve we didnt fight to keep our team to end up being this kind of a nansy pansy we quit when it looks bad type of white collarish fairyland team from the top down... Fact sewage should have fired fatass at the bye week.. Fact lerner should have fired sewage at the bye week for not firing fatass.. Fact the owner should have cleaned the plate at the bye week.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob806 Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 ART MODELL sucked big time buddy. It was Art Modell who fired arguably the GREATEST football coach who ever lived in Paul Brown. Did Art care, yes, but please, he mismanaged the team as well during his tenure. I started being a fan in 1970, and I guess I could do the math and look up the records, but the Browns were basically a .500 team in Art's ownership. They made the playoffs in 1971, 72, 80 & 81, then had what was the only consistent run of success under Art's ownership...1985-1989. We know what the snake Art did in 1995, and he got REWARDED with a Superbowl win with the Ratbirds. There are probably many fans on this forum who have been a fan longer than I, who can chime in more about Art's skillful management. Art SUCKED, ok? This is one post that really hit a nerve with me. Please get a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firebiker911 Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 Unfortunately with PSL's, you have no choice but to support the team financially win or lose. If you choose not to renew your tickets you lose your PSL hence you lose hundreds or thousands of dollars. If you choose to pay for tickets then not go to the games, it is your loss. That is why I sold my PSL's this season. Fortunately I found a sucker willing to take them off my hands and for a profit! I am still a fan, but I no longer have to pay for incompetence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownIndian Posted November 25, 2008 Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 Perhaps, it is best then to hit them where it hurts by watching the games in the sports bar rather than the stadium. I feel it is pointless to pay so much money to go to the stadium and boo our players. If we can some how make them realize that if they are not put on a show they will not get paid then it will help us. Of course they may move to LA (worst case scenario) but, In that case I will not care any more then. The browns as they are .. are just a coaching personals + 1 / 2 players away from playoff challenging spot. Now will they chose to turn the tide around or not .. i dunno but if the ship turns the wrong way then ..... i can only hope that atlest leBron stays with the Cavs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rr59eagle Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 7-5..................2-14 4-10..................3-11 3-11..................7-9 9-5..................9-7 6-8..................5-11 8-8..................4-12 9-7..................6-10 11-5..................4-12 5-11..................10-6 4-5..................4-7 Which column is heads-and-shoulders better than the other? The Column on the left are the records of the Browns from when I was 7 years old until I was 16 years old (1973-1982), the one on the right is our record under the Lerner regime. One team started out winning 7 Championships in 17 years prior to the Modells taking ahold. The other started from scratch with a hastly time table by the NFL for any expansion team in history (add in the death and inheritance at the mid point). Don't sit here and tell me I am a bad fan for supporting this shit, when it is almost Identical with what I grew up on. I was born in 1967, and if I were to sit on my hands and wait until we fielded a winner, I'd be the biggest soccer homo on the face of the earth. STFU and jump off the wagon if you want, but don't bring this weakass Art Modell shit around here. Art Modell is,was and always will be an idiot ..If he was still here ,you'd have son David running the show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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