France's Burqa ban

[lambdo]

I don't know what to say here, since I couldnt imagine wearing that shitty garment on my face everytime i walked out the door.

 

I understand the security concern, but how do you draw the line? No scarfs and hoody's combo's either?

 

Good / Bad ? Board thoughts??

 

[DieHardBrownsFan]

We should ban it too.

[VaporTrail]

I disagree with it. You should be able to wear whatever you damn well please... Even if it's forced on you because of the religion you were born into. But really, it's no different than someone wearing a scarf, hoodie, and big sunglasses, should we ban that? It's just an Islamophobic law, and they're freaking out because there are way more Muslims immigrating than the government wants.

 

@Diehard... Why?

[calfoxwc]

Because, historically, some Muslim extremists have used the burka to avoid detection in enemies' areas,

 

used to infilltrate security checks, to assassinate those they wish to kill.

 

A hoodie or scarf doesn't have extremist religious requirements to be unrecognizable.

 

You think you can go get your driver's license or passport wearing a spiderman costume?

 

Yeah, don't require id before voting, and let Muslim men dress up in burkas to kill people - what

 

a typical liberal solution to nothing - just an emotional knee jerk reaction that makes the problem(s) WORSE,

 

creates MORE problems for them to scapegoat on anybody else but them. Fannie and Freddie come to mind...

 

Islamophobia schmobia. That's just another cheapshot slur at those who won't agree with liberals' trying to turn everything

 

upside down, and inside out so they can "own" it.

[Westside Steve]

 

So here, where shit hits the fan if firemen have a Christmas tree in the window or a public official like a judge perhaps wears a small gold cross or a valedictorian mentions his or her faith, we get outraged when somebody tries to keep some members of a barbaric sect from walking around in a disguise........

 

WSS

[DieHardBrownsFan]

I disagree with it. You should be able to wear whatever you damn well please... Even if it's forced on you because of the religion you were born into. But really, it's no different than someone wearing a scarf, hoodie, and big sunglasses, should we ban that? It's just an Islamophobic law, and they're freaking out because there are way more Muslims immigrating than the government wants.

 

@Diehard... Why?

 

 

Because it hides the face. The bad guys use it as an advantage with the surveilance cameras, etc. You realize that they have caught men hiding in burqa's? They can wear whatever they like at home or at the mosque, just not in public. (Kind of like being nude).

[VaporTrail]

Because it's an attack on the first amendment and freedom to practice religion. They're not hurting anyone. There's a possibility that they might hurt people, but it has nothing to do with what they wear. Also, it's nothing like being nude, it's more akin to wearing a big hoodie, big shades, and a scarf or bandana. Should we ban that combination too? People of the Muslim faith could just as well use that to hide their identities.

 

PS. Note how the topic is about burqa bans, and cal mentions Fannie and Freddie

[DieHardBrownsFan]

"it's more akin to wearing a big hoodie, big shades, and a scarf or bandana. Should we ban that combination too?"

 

Absolutely.

[VaporTrail]

So here, where shit hits the fan if firemen have a Christmas tree in the window or a public official like a judge perhaps wears a small gold cross or a valedictorian mentions his or her faith, we get outraged when somebody tries to keep some members of a barbaric sect from walking around in a disguise........

 

This is different. These are individual rights. The only way anyone can possibly be offended by it is because of its context on the subjection of women. The women here, however, are free (at least legally) to pick whatever religion they want, to pick whatever they want to wear. It's their personal, individual choice to choose that religion and wear a veil.

 

If a judge wears a small, gold cross, I don't think it should be seen because they are supposed to be completely objective in their professional field. Their legal decisions shouldn't be swayed by what their religion tells them is right or wrong. If he wants to wear it wherever else, then fine, but not when he's in a position of appointed authority. If a valedictorian mentions his or her faith, then who cares. They're not really in a position of appointed authority, they're just giving a send-off to their class. There's nothing wrong with it, legally, nor is there anything that can be done if someone wants to go off on a religious rant when capping off their year.

 

Just because someone is wearing a veil does not mean they are a scheming terrorist. These laws that you guys are proposing assumes any Muslim that wears a burqa should automatically be treated like a criminal. It comes off as Islamophobic, because really, where was your outrage when these guys paraded around everywhere?

 

[lambdo]

Steve I agree, the bullshit religious callouts are everywhere.....but it's so faux pas to mention muslims.

 

That being said, a burqa ban does not do what it is set out to achieve...which I think is meant to be safety for society.( This assumption may not be right, it may be a curbing of hardcore muslim requirements, where islamic immigrants and birth rates are multiple times that of a traditional 2 parent 2 children household. By curbing the religous aspect, more of a voting trend should move to a traditional democratic party)

 

In the sake of safety, if you ban burqa's then you have to ban all hidden faced clothing in public? That makes it equal...and a more indirect attack on muslim requirements(with the same direct effect).

 

[calfoxwc]

Vapor, please try to keep up.

 

1. The principle of liberals' knee jerk reacting to problems, then scapegoating onto others

the disastrous result.

This principle applies to Freddie and Fannie. It applies to allowing burkas to be worn, so that

some terrorists can USE that to travel incognito and terrorize, then those that allowed burkas can scapegoat

the Bush security plans or something for it happening....

Nobody said that all burka wearers are terrorists. That is just another liberal cheapshot cya defense mechanism.

Liberals don't solve problems, they put up politically expedient emotional reactions to allegedly solve problems.

But their solutions most of the time, get the opposite result or no result at all, compared to their alleged intentions.

 

 

2. Why the KKK pic? Do you think that the KKK should be allowed to roam around getting drivers licenses, passports,

blind entry into stadiums, banks etc, completely unrecognizable?

I wouldn't think so.

We didn't have this forum back in the days of the KKK, Vapor. What the freakin is your point?

Are you saying that most of those KKKers were really fine citizens who got a bad rap for simply wearing their uniform?

That they should have a right to wear those uniforms?

 

I wouldn't think so....

 

They why do you want the same for burka wearers?

Are you comparing the KKK to Muslims? I wouldn't think so, but I don't get your idea.

 

Nobody here has ever supported the KKK in any kind of way.

 

we don't support burka wearing terrorists, either.

 

3. The burka wearing is an oppression of the rights of all those women who do NOT want to wear them.

Sure, some women may want to. But a lot of women don't. Some get executed for not wearing them.

I think those women who were beheaded or stoned to death didn't have the freedom of religion like the rest of us are supposed to have.

 

 

4. How dumb is it, that the identity of the women are hidden, and their entire bodies covered,

but their beautiful sexy eyes show?

 

You could hide their eyes, too, ya know, with thin veil material.

 

But then again, a terrorist male in a burka needs a clear view of his targets in dim light....

 

Besides that, do you remember the great Trojan Horse story? The burkas have BEEN USED in the past

to get men with weapons to areas they want to attack.

 

You WANT those attacks? Then take away their ability to officially move about undetected, unrecognizable,

and unsearchable.

 

The rest of us see that society has a right to defend itself against sneak attacks, using the burka as a trojan horse.

 

Let them wear them? Okay. But they don't have the right of refusing to identify themselves, and just showing an id card

doesn't identify them.

 

It shouldn't be that hard to understand, Vapor.

[Speedyd900rr]

They banned them from wearing burqa's in public buildings not in public. I see no problem with it at all to be honest.

[VaporTrail]

1. The principle of liberals' knee jerk reacting to problems, then scapegoating onto others

the disastrous result.

This principle applies to Freddie and Fannie. It applies to allowing burkas to be worn, so that

some terrorists can USE that to travel incognito and terrorize, then those that allowed burkas can scapegoat

the Bush security plans or something for it happening....

 

Okay, bud, if you say so.

 

Nobody said that all burka wearers are terrorists. That is just another liberal cheapshot cya defense mechanism.

 

You're treating them as if they're criminals and/or more likely to commit a crime.

 

Liberals don't solve problems, they put up politically expedient emotional reactions to allegedly solve problems.

But their solutions most of the time, get the opposite result or no result at all, compared to their alleged intentions.

 

[vague overgeneralized bullshit]Conservatives are mentally Retarded racists. They want to put all the money into the war, and then, when they spend all of the debt, they blame it on progressive pinkos that are socializing Ammurrrca.[/bullshit]

 

 

2. Why the KKK pic? Do you think that the KKK should be allowed to roam around getting drivers licenses, passports,

blind entry into stadiums, banks etc, completely unrecognizable?

 

Hell no, but they should be allowed to wear them in public.

 

We didn't have this forum back in the days of the KKK, Vapor. What the freakin is your point?

Are you saying that most of those KKKers were really fine citizens who got a bad rap for simply wearing their uniform?

That they should have a right to wear those uniforms?

 

There were rallies in the 90's, when I was a kid. I'm gonna go ahead and bet that you didn't care if what they wore was banned or not. I wouldn't think so....

 

They why do you want the same for burka wearers?

 

Because you should be allowed to wear whatever the xxxx you want so long as you're not pretending to be an authority figure (cop, fbi, etc).

 

Are you comparing the KKK to Muslims? I wouldn't think so, but I don't get your idea.

 

Nobody here has ever supported the KKK in any kind of way.

 

we don't support burka wearing terrorists, either.

 

Well, I don't understand why you don't support non-terrorists that wear burqas.

 

3. The burka wearing is an oppression of the rights of all those women who do NOT want to wear them.

 

If this happens in the US, then all of those women can legally choose to not wear them.

 

Sure, some women may want to. But a lot of women don't. Some get executed for not wearing them.

 

Not here. Not in France.

 

I think those women who were beheaded or stoned to death didn't have the freedom of religion like the rest of us are supposed to have.

 

I think this example has little to do the situation of France and the US.

 

 

4. How dumb is it, that the identity of the women are hidden, and their entire bodies covered,

but their beautiful sexy eyes show?

 

It's xxxxing stupid as all hell and based on a barbaric religious tradition. It shouldn't be banned though, as it (ironically) impedes upon religious freedom. I hate most of religion with a passion (probably my only REAL prejudice), but the way Islam treats women really pisses me off. I will, however, defend their right to make a stupid f*cking choice and be their husband's piece of meat if that's what they CHOOSE to do. (protip: ask me about female Muslim doctors and nurses not having to wash above their wrists because it shows too much of their arm)

 

You could hide their eyes, too, ya know, with thin veil material.

 

But then again, a terrorist male in a burka needs a clear view of his targets in dim light....

 

Besides that, do you remember the great Trojan Horse story? The burkas have BEEN USED in the past

to get men with weapons to areas they want to attack.

 

You WANT those attacks? Then take away their ability to officially move about undetected, unrecognizable,

and unsearchable.

 

The rest of us see that society has a right to defend itself against sneak attacks, using the burka as a trojan horse.

 

Same thing for someone in a trenchcoat and shades, wanna ban those too?

 

Let them wear them? Okay. But they don't have the right of refusing to identify themselves, and just showing an id card

doesn't identify them.

 

I agree with you 100% on this point.

[calfoxwc]

Let them wear them? Okay. But they don't have the right of refusing to identify themselves, and just showing an id card

doesn't identify them.

 

I agree with you 100% on this point. Vapor

 

*******************************

I knew you agreed with me. @@

 

[VaporTrail]

Check and mate!

[Westside Steve]

If a judge wears a small, gold cross, I don't think it should be seen because they are supposed to be completely objective in their professional field. Their legal decisions shouldn't be swayed by what their religion tells them is right or wrong.

 

 

So only an atheist should be allowed to be a judge since only they can follow the law??

How about a police officer? Congressman? Senator? President? Doctor? Lawyer?

WSS

[Pumpkin Eater]

Because, historically, some Muslim extremists have used the burka to avoid detection in enemies' areas,

 

used to infilltrate security checks, to assassinate those they wish to kill.

 

A hoodie or scarf doesn't have extremist religious requirements to be unrecognizable.

 

You think you can go get your driver's license or passport wearing a spiderman costume?

 

Yeah, don't require id before voting, and let Muslim men dress up in burkas to kill people - what

 

a typical liberal solution to nothing - just an emotional knee jerk reaction that makes the problem(s) WORSE,

 

creates MORE problems for them to scapegoat on anybody else but them. Fannie and Freddie come to mind...

 

Islamophobia schmobia. That's just another cheapshot slur at those who won't agree with liberals' trying to turn everything

 

upside down, and inside out so they can "own" it.

 

So by your logic guns should be banned.

 

Edit. Which they are in public buildings, I guess a burqa ban in public buildings isn't so bad. But the majority of this argument has nothing to do with being in a public building.

[Mr. T]

 

Just because someone is wearing a veil does not mean they are a scheming terrorist. These laws that you guys are proposing assumes any Muslim that wears a burqa should automatically be treated like a criminal.

 

 

 

Say what?

[Paxton]

a typical liberal solution to nothing - just an emotional knee jerk reaction that makes the problem(s) WORSE,

 

creates MORE problems for them to scapegoat on anybody else but them. Fannie and Freddie come to mind...

 

Islamophobia schmobia. That's just another cheapshot slur at those who won't agree with liberals' trying to turn everything

 

upside down, and inside out so they can "own" it.

Yeah this reminds me of a lot of the Van Jones stuff. Buyer beware.