Republican Nazi Reenactment

[Westside Steve]

No. The bottom line isn't that Iott likes to play dress up. It's that he doesn't seem to think that there's anything wrong with praising soldiers in the Waffen SS, and then putting their uniform on and acting like one. And when given multiple opportunities to distance himself from the actions of the very division - the Nazi war criminals - he's chosen to emulate, he refuses to do so. He even says "we shouldn't judge them" because "we weren't there."

 

How about civil war reinactors?

You freak out over them?

 

Honestly, you don't think the voters should know that he believes this? What else do you not want to know?

 

I just don't care very much.

But it gives guys like you somethiong to hyperventilate over.

Like pictures of Obama in a turban.

 

You simply dismiss what he's doing as "goofy" and "playing dress up", and bringing his behavior to the voter's attention as a smear campaign. You really don't seem to have any idea what the media's function is.

 

Their function? You're kidding right?

To sell copies and in turn ad space.

To tailor (not completely fabricate before you pretend that's what I meant) thier content to appeal to their target audience.

 

NOT to be an impartial beacon of unvarnished thruth.

 

I guess when Josh Green broke the Eric Massa story (a Democrat) and wrote that piece that skewered Hillary Clinton and her campaign (also a Democrat) he was just taking his orders to smear the Republican Party.

 

Or Matt Drudge when he broke the Lewinski story?

 

Your arguments don't hold up. At all. They're just attempts to cram everything back into your narrow worldview, where everything is just smears and carping, except when you do it.

 

Argument? Heh. Turn on the tube Heck.

EVERYTHING we'll hear this election season is smears and carping.

Not just Dems but as it stands that's your only real option.

 

 

If this guy were a Democrat he'd have been forced to drop out by now. No question. Zero.

 

Maybe. Hey at least he didn't run a gay whorehouse out of his apartment, pander obscenity, join the Klan or drown his mistress.

 

WSS

[Westside Steve]

Oh and VT about the bomber pilot. Now if we were impartial observers and the soldier in question was ordered to kill 66,000 civilians (women children babies) in a village what might we think?

 

What if he refused the order?

 

If he followed the order and his side lost the war how do you think he'd nbe seen?

 

WSS

[VaporTrail]

He'd be seen in the same light that Nazi pilots that dropped bombs on London are.

[Westside Steve]

He'd be seen in the same light that Nazi pilots that dropped bombs on London are.

 

 

So wasn't that my point?

 

And Kos, I'd truly love to have a beer or 6 with Heck and VT and everyone else here.

I'd hope it was good beer.........

Anybody that can't seperate political trash talking from human relationships is a little f*ched up.

 

WSS

[calfoxwc]

#1, the bombs dropped on Japan were in desperate self-defense, to end the war.

 

Think about all those Navy folks who were murdered at Pearl Harbor. This was the wrong

 

point to try to make, contrariness considered, but still...

 

#2, Anybody who "reenacts" the Nazis, especially when they are in the public eye...

 

is a sleazeball nutjob.

 

#3, I wouldn't drink a beer with anybody here. ... I don't like beer. ROOT BEER, and you're on.

Except, I welcomed Steve to come out to the farm for a root beer around a bonfire, but he's too freakin

busy being a musician sensation to warrant stopping by to have a brew with one of the "little people". GGG

 

 

[heckofajobbrownie]

Steve, honestly. What a bizarre, rudderless rant that was.

 

You really don't see a problem with a guy "honoring" the "valiant" Waffen SS soldiers on weekends? Someone who, when confronted with the actual history of what these people did - rather than the pretend version they made up and emulate on weekends - says they shouldn't be judged because we weren't there?

 

Really? We shouldn't judge people who volunteered for the SS? Even people from other countries like Holland, which was invaded and occupied by Germany, who certainly didn't have to join up, but wanted to because they believed in what the Nazis were doing? (Slaughtering an enslaving and exterminating whole races of people, in case you've forgotten.) He wouldn't call those people collaborators, and said we shouldn't judge them.

 

Really?

 

That's not something he should have to answer for? That's not something the media should press him on? You'd like to dismiss this because Civil War re-enactors also exist? That's your argument?

 

Jesus.

[VaporTrail]

So wasn't that my point?

 

And Kos, I'd truly love to have a beer or 6 with Heck and VT and everyone else here.

I'd hope it was good beer.........

Anybody that can't seperate political trash talking from human relationships is a little f*ched up.

 

WSS

 

It is? I argued that a B-17 pilot is the same thing as a He-111 pilot. You argued that a B-17 pilot is the same thing as a someone in the SS. I don't see how those two things are the same. If you want me to compare the SS to something American, then it'd probably be the cops, FBI, and CIA that do shady shit to get things done our way (giving arms to both Iranians and Iraqis to get them to kill each other, for example).

[heckofajobbrownie]

Also, why is it a smear to call someone out for what they do, admit to doing, and say, and in public?

 

That's the opposite of a smear, is it not?

[Mr. T]

#3, I wouldn't drink a beer with anybody here. ... I don't like beer. ROOT BEER, and you're on.

Except, I welcomed Steve to come out to the farm for a root beer around a bonfire, but he's too freakin

busy being a musician sensation to warrant stopping by to have a brew with one of the "little people". GGG

 

 

I would say anyone who extends an open invitation for adult beverages is doing so in extending their hand in friendship. I also wouldn't drink a beer, but if anyone would like to get a cup of coffee and donuts I think we could have some fun talking politics, sports or just telling each other some good stories.

[Westside Steve]

It is? I argued that a B-17 pilot is the same thing as a He-111 pilot. You argued that a B-17 pilot is the same thing as a someone in the SS. I don't see how those two things are the same. If you want me to compare the SS to something American, then it'd probably be the cops, FBI, and CIA that do shady shit to get things done our way (giving arms to both Iranians and Iraqis to get them to kill each other, for example).

Oh well.

If you're ordered to massacre as many civilians as you can, and do it...

I don't need to say much more.

At least we didn't waterboard them.

 

 

WSS

 

 

[VaporTrail]

You're still failing to see the difference in reasoning between the two. Yes, both involve the killing, or murder, if you wish, of civilians. However, it's the reasoning behind it that is different. The objective for bombing a city is to destroy the population's morale toward the war, thus weakening troops morale and the ability to get weaponry from behind their lines to the front.

 

That was the goal of the Heinkel and Flying Fortress pilots. The goal of the SS, however, was much different. They didn't carry out their objectives to make their enemies stop their war efforts. They existed to accomplish the objective of ridding the world of an entire race of people they deemed inferior.

[heckofajobbrownie]

Steve, seriously. Try a color other than black or white.

 

[Mr. T]

Oh well.

If you're ordered to massacre as many civilians as you can, and do it...

I don't need to say much more.

At least we didn't waterboard them.

 

 

WSS

 

 

After many tests in the X games it has become an Olympic game

[Westside Steve]

You're still failing to see the difference in reasoning between the two. Yes, both involve the killing, or murder, if you wish, of civilians. However, it's the reasoning behind it that is different. The objective for bombing a city is to destroy the population's morale toward the war, thus weakening troops morale and the ability to get weaponry from behind their lines to the front.

 

That was the goal of the Heinkel and Flying Fortress pilots. The goal of the SS, however, was much different. They didn't carry out their objectives to make their enemies stop their war efforts. They existed to accomplish the objective of ridding the world of an entire race of people they deemed inferior.

 

 

First the Japanese were just trying to take over more territory.

Not unheard of.

We chose to intervene well before Pearl Harbor.

 

 

And read your first line and then tell me why 9/11 was so evil.

Or if it was.

Hey it was a smart move if your objective is to weaken the enemys capacity to harm your cause.

Wasn't it?

WSS

[heckofajobbrownie]

Steve, try answering the questions above. I'd really like to know if you think Iott's defense/admiration of Waffen SS soldiers is okay with you, or something that voters shouldn't know about him, and something the media shouldn't highlight.

[VaporTrail]

And read your first line and then tell me why 9/11 was so evil.

Or if it was.

 

It wasn't. It was only described by our government as evil to polarize the public against the perps. Do I think we should be fighting them? Yes. Were their actions evil? I really don't think anything is universally evil, and I don't think 9/11 was, either. I don't like what they did, in fact, I fùcking hate them for it, but they didn't do it because they're evil. Bin Laden's statement about 9/11 was very coherent, intelligent and rational, not the ravings of a lunatic, and they attacked us the only way that they could. He's not an idiot, just has an ideology that is opposed to ours. That doesn't make him evil. That just makes him my enemy.

[Westside Steve]

Steve, try answering the questions above. I'd really like to know if you think Iott's defense/admiration of Waffen SS soldiers is okay with you, or something that voters shouldn't know about him, and something the media shouldn't highlight.

 

 

I think I've answered all that before. You just don't like it.

 

I don't care too much and further you aren't the guy I'd pick as moral arbiter of the world.

 

I think he likes to play dressup like the guys who reinact any battles.

(all of which had "good guys and bad guys.")

I bet the party guys who put him up are kicking themselves in the ass that this was overlooked, though I doubt he had a chance in Kaptur's union stranglehold.

But I doubt he's a Nazi.

I think the plan was and is to portray Republicans as Nazis extremeists and lunatics.

That's ONE reason the Atlantic ran it.

Of course you pussed out as to my answer about the medias job.

(but gee Green attacked Hillary!!! Uh yeah. Obama's rival right?)

 

 

 

But I was right in my first comment that you'd take the "Whaaaaa!!!! You love Nazis!!!!!!!" tack.

Ya suppose you'd be as outraged over a Dem that participated in civil war enactments?

"Whahhhhh! You want to bring back slavery!!!!!!"

You think anyone who respected Robert E Lee should be a pariah?

 

And again I don't hear you screeching about our ally Joe Stalin.

 

WSS

[Westside Steve]

It wasn't. It was only described by our government as evil to polarize the public against the perps. Do I think we should be fighting them? Yes. Were their actions evil? I really don't think anything is universally evil, and I don't think 9/11 was, either. I don't like what they did, in fact, I fùcking hate them for it, but they didn't do it because they're evil. Bin Laden's statement about 9/11 was very coherent, intelligent and rational, not the ravings of a lunatic, and they attacked us the only way that they could. He's not an idiot, just has an ideology that is opposed to ours. That doesn't make him evil. That just makes him my enemy.

 

 

Fair and honest answer.

 

WSS

[heckofajobbrownie]

I think I've answered all that before. You just don't like it.

 

I don't care too much and further you aren't the guy I'd pick as moral arbiter of the world.

 

I think he likes to play dressup like the guys who reinact any battles.

(all of which had "good guys and bad guys.")

I bet the party guys who put him up are kicking themselves in the ass that this was overlooked, though I doubt he had a chance in Kaptur's union stranglehold.

But I doubt he's a Nazi.

I think the plan was and is to portray Republicans as Nazis extremeists and lunatics.

That's ONE reason the Atlantic ran it.

Of course you pussed out as to my answer about the medias job.

(but gee Green attacked Hillary!!! Uh yeah. Obama's rival right?)

 

 

 

But I was right in my first comment that you'd take the "Whaaaaa!!!! You love Nazis!!!!!!!" tack.

Ya suppose you'd be as outraged over a Dem that participated in civil war enactments?

"Whahhhhh! You want to bring back slavery!!!!!!"

You think anyone who respected Robert E Lee should be a pariah?

 

And again I don't hear you screeching about our ally Joe Stalin.

 

WSS

 

Um, yeah. Great response. Wonderful talking to you.

[Westside Steve]

Um, yeah. Great response. Wonderful talking to you.

 

 

You were talking to me?

Really?

Sorry I must have missed it.

WSS

[calfoxwc]

Um, yeah. Great response. Wonderful talking to you. Heck

 

**********************

Heck translation: "I still have nothing to add, and I'm still too frightened to start my own thread on any subject."

[VaporTrail]

I think the biggest inherent flaw of defining something as "good" or "evil" is that no one's going to define themselves as evil. I'm sure that Bin Laden uses the same type of rhetoric to recruit people against America. Evil, in my opinion, is always relative, and I don't think it really exists; the real battle lines are drawn between "us" and "them." Good and evil are just words used to dehumanize your enemy, and make your group's cause seem like the more righteous effort.

[Paxton]

Great debate, fellas. I'm glad we had this chat!

[Westside Steve]

I think the biggest inherent flaw of defining something as "good" or "evil" is that no one's going to define themselves as evil. I'm sure that Bin Laden uses the same type of rhetoric to recruit people against America. Evil, in my opinion, is always relative, and I don't think it really exists; the real battle lines are drawn between "us" and "them." Good and evil are just words used to dehumanize your enemy, and make your group's cause seem like the more righteous effort.

 

 

Of course you're right.

And I think you're agreeing with me in the big picture.

 

I think war is ingrained in human nature and since we have the ability to think in abstract we always make those wars a moral issue.

Our guys are the good guys and their guys are the bad guys. And yes we dehumanize the enemy so as not to feel so bad that it was Hans or Kyoko or Ahmed or Joe that gets killed.

 

Beyond pure homerism I don't suppose there's any real moral superiority to any bunch of warriors.

Just as you say. But we've fought since man stood upright and before.

 

But you and some other guy have been arguinjg that one mass murder is morally superior to another.

I'n the grand view I agree that's bullshit.

 

 

And admittedly the homer in me is glad we won and glad we get to write the story.

Still maybe in some parts of the globe the story reads a little differently ya think?

WSS